Advertisement
MODs please see this information notice in the mod's forum. Thanks!
Boards Golf Society are looking for new members for 2022...read about the society and their planned outings here!
How to add spoiler tags, edit posts, add images etc. How to - a user's guide to the new version of Boards

I.S. 10101 - The replacement for ET101:2008

1356789

Comments



  • @ Risteard: A hardcopy will be available. In fact initially it will only be available as a hardcopy (around 700 pages).
    All soft copies to follow.




  • 2011 wrote: »
    @ Risteard: A hardcopy will be available. In fact initially it will only be available as a hardcopy (around 700 pages).
    All soft copies to follow.

    Glad to hear it. I'm still a fan of hard copies. I'm a bit old fashioned that way! :)




  • I have just seen the final revision. I don’t have time to go through it throughly, but so far I haven’t seen any deviations from the draft version.




  • Risteard81 wrote: »
    Glad to hear it. I'm still a fan of hard copies. I'm a bit old fashioned that way! :)

    Hard copies are easier to leaf through and check back between pages




  • salmocab wrote: »
    Hard copies are easier to leaf through and check back between pages

    That’s true.

    However soft copies are easier to search and the new document is over 700 pages :eek:
    Secondly having a soft copy with you at all times via a phone app is invaluable.

    Personally I want both versions. Each has advantages.


  • Advertisement


  • Places are limited but registration is free, see link

    Tuesday 4 February 2020 6:00pm GMT

    Venue:
    The Royal College of Physicians of Ireland
    ADDRESS
    6 Kildare St
    Dublin, D02 E434
    Ireland

    Well worth attending, I went to the last one and it was very informative.




  • What was the talk like 2011? Was it the same speakers as last time?




  • 17larsson wrote: »
    What was the talk like 2011? Was it the same speakers as last time?

    It was kind of funny to be honest :D:D

    When I found out about it I rang Stoner and another friend that is on a NSAI committee and convinced them both that it would be worth attending. However it quickly became evident that the talk was more about how the process of how the rules are put together than the rules themselves, so not what we expected:D

    Yes it was the same speaker as before.

    This is in my opinion was the most interesting slide in the presentation:

    49493354733_65a5165ff9.jpg

    The big questions for me are about compliance with the EMC Directive (3rd point on the slide). Do we have to demonstrate compliance? If so how? Not so long ago I was caught out with this and I had to get specialists in to declare that an assembly met the requirements of the EMC Directive. They achieved this by measuring conducted and radiated EMI with some expensive kit. The results were complied in a report. This was the last of many obstacles for CE Certification. This was a very expensive exercise :eek: The trend in industry is to increase the numbers of VSDs, UPS and switched mode power supplies. As the nonlinear loads increase compliance with the EMC Directive more difficult and more expensive. Not really an issue for domestic installations, but for those of us in industry it is an important consideration.

    In other news it looks like the CRU will formally issue IS10101 in March next, but this is not certain.




  • 2011 wrote: »
    The big questions for me are about compliance with the EMC Directive (3rd point on the slide). Do we have to demonstrate compliance? If so how?
    In what context was that?

    Domestic? commercial? across the board?

    It's always been a requirement for equipment / machinery. Compliance was demonstrated by best practice & using CE / UL components. It was rare to have to go to testing.




  • Steve wrote: »
    In what context was that?

    Domestic? commercial? across the board?

    Across the board is my understanding, but it is a bit fuzzy. Hence my question.
    It's always been a requirement for equipment / machinery. Compliance was demonstrated by best practice & using CE / UL components. It was rare to have to go to testing.

    That is no guarantee of compliance.
    The only way it can be proved is to measure it, which as I discovered is not cheap and requires specialist equipment.

    As I said I’m not sure what the requirement is in terms of documentation for this.


  • Advertisement


  • 2011 wrote: »
    Across the board is my understanding, but it is a bit fuzzy. Hence my question.
    That's a bit worrying, I'd say few businesses are set up for this, especially domestic contractors.
    That is no guarantee of compliance.
    The only way it can be proved is to measure it, which as I discovered is not cheap and requires specialist equipment.

    As I said I’m not sure what the requirement is in terms of documentation for this.
    It was never a 'guarantee' of compliance but it was accepted - same as a CE mark can be applied in most cases by demonstrating best practice and a declaration of following applicable EN's etc.

    I agree, it's a nuts scenario if every case has to be measured...

    pm me your details, I'll go halves on a house sized Faraday cage venture with you :D:D:D




  • Steve wrote: »
    That's a bit worrying, I'd say few businesses are set up for this, especially domestic contractors.

    Well what I mean is I can't see an argument that some installations are somehow exempt. However due to the nature of domestic loads (99.9% linear) it shouldn't be an issue.
    It was never a 'guarantee' of compliance but it was accepted

    ...and maybe that will be the case now, it is just unclear.
    - same as a CE mark can be applied in most cases by demonstrating best practice and a declaration of following applicable EN's etc.

    Yes but to apply a CE mark (in my case anyway) required proof of compliance with the directive. In my case I failed, conducted emissions were too high (radiated were ok) :eek: To pass I had a choice, either change the VSD for one with different internal filters or install an external passive low pass filter.




  • Is the EN61439 refereed to on the power point amendment 3 as in metal enclosures for domestic installations?




  • Is the EN61439 refereed to on the power point amendment 3 as in metal enclosures for domestic installations?

    I.S. EN 61439-3 is the manufacturing standard for the DBs.

    Non-combustible (e.g. steel) enclosures is an additional requirement to this, but what I took from the IET talk was that this additional requirement would not be included in the final text. Although it obviously remains to be seen.




  • Is the EN61439 refereed to on the power point amendment 3 as in metal enclosures for domestic installations?

    Metal enclosures will not be a requirement for IS10101.




  • Surprising their not bringing it in, distribution boards should be metallic and cable entry's glanded

    There's been issues with shoddy PAYG meter installation causing fire hazard

    A lot of consumers switching to dual tariff with increased loading at night charging cars etc. raising fire risk




  • Xwebstar2 wrote: »
    distribution boards should be metallic and cable entry's glanded

    Why should they be metal?
    There's been issues with shoddy PAYG meter installation causing fire hazard

    I have seen more than one distribution board with a metal enclosure go on fire.
    A lot of consumers switching to dual tariff with increased loading at night charging cars etc. raising fire risk

    It shouldn’t be an issue if properly designed and installed.


    Having said that I know that there was quite a bit of support for this proposal.

    Personally I liked being able to install IP65 plastic distribution boards in milking parlors. Apart for the fact that this rating is harder to achieve with a metal enclosure they tend to rust unless stainless steel which is very expensive.




  • 2011 wrote: »
    Why should they be metal?



    I have seen more than one distribution board with a metal enclosure go on fire.



    It shouldn’t be an issue if properly designed and installed.


    Having said that I know that there was quite a bit of support for this proposal.

    Personally I liked being able to install IP65 plastic distribution boards in milking parlors. Apart for the fact that this rating is harder to achieve with a metal enclosure they tend to rust unless stainless steel which is very expensive.

    Well that's the big IF

    There is always the tendency for the loading to be increased without increasing supply capacity.




  • Xwebstar2 wrote: »
    Well that's the big IF

    I would like to depend on a metal enclosure preventing a fire.
    There is always the tendency for the loading to be increased without increasing supply capacity.

    Sometimes. that is just one reason that overcurrent protection devices are installed.

    Anyway there is nothing preventing someone using metal enclosures if they decide to. This is frequently done in industrial installations.




  • 2011 wrote: »
    I would like to depend on a metal enclosure preventing a fire.



    Sometimes. that is just one reason that overcurrent protection devices are installed.

    Anyway there is nothing preventing someone using metal enclosures if they decide to. This is frequently done in industrial installations.

    Yes but overcurrent protection devices are prone to fire and overheating , most notably neozed fuse units


  • Advertisement


  • Xwebstar2 wrote: »
    Yes but overcurrent protection devices are prone to fire and overheating , most notably neozed fuse units

    There have been occasional incidents of this in the past. A metal enclosure could help in these limited circumstances alright. However so could other measures, the question is where do you stop?

    The rules just set minimum standards there is nothing stopping you surpassing these.

    Most electrical issues occur because the rules we have at present are not adhered to and / or substandard equipment has been used. Personally I think that it would be better to focus on that.

    I would still prefer to install a plastic enclosure with a high IP rating that won’t corrode in a milking parlor :)




  • IS 10101 will be available for sale on 6th March from www.standards.ie

    More information is available at https://www.nsai.ie/standards/sectors/electrotechnical-standards/national-wiring-rules-faqs/




  • A hard copy of IS 10101 will cost €120 (excl. p&p). As part of the hardcopy purchase you also get access to an online (read only) version. You will receive an email that gives instruction on how to access the online version.




  • Has anyone seen the updates regarding EV charging? I've heard there may be updates to EV home charger installation location.
    Multiple websites mention proposals to permit connecting the EV home chargers directly to the meter box, under certain conditions.




  • DMgiF6Fv wrote: »
    Has anyone seen the updates regarding EV charging? I've heard there may be updates to EV home charger installation location.
    Multiple websites mention proposals to permit connecting the EV home chargers directly to the meter box, under certain conditions.

    I.S. 10101:2020 contains the same requirements as Amendment No. 3 to ET101:2008.




  • Risteard81 wrote: »
    I.S. 10101:2020 contains the same requirements as Amendment No. 3 to ET101:2008.

    I read that as there have been no changes. I'm a member of the public and I do not have access to these documents, therefore I do not know what Amendment No. 3 of ET101:2008 says. I wish these standards were open to the public. Thanks anyway.




  • DMgiF6Fv wrote: »
    I read that as there have been no changes. I'm a member of the public and I do not have access to these documents, therefore I do not know what Amendment No. 3 of ET101:2008 says. I wish these standards were open to the public. Thanks anyway.

    They are available to the public. All you have to do is purchase them from the NSAI.




  • DMgiF6Fv wrote: »
    I read that as there have been no changes. I'm a member of the public and I do not have access to these documents, therefore I do not know what Amendment No. 3 of ET101:2008 says. I wish these standards were open to the public. Thanks anyway.
    2011 wrote: »
    They are available to the public. All you have to do is purchase them from the NSAI.

    In fairness, I agree with DMgiF6Fv on this.

    It's just wrong that anyone is expected to comply with the law while at the same time not allowed to see what the law is without paying a substantial amount of money to view it.

    Compare this to speed limits on the roads, what if you had to pay €120 to see what the speed limit was at any given time on any given road... ? or parking regulations... or road worthiness regulations..?




  • Steve wrote: »
    Compare this to speed limits on the roads, what if you had to pay €120 to see what the speed limit was at any given time on any given road... ? or parking regulations... or road worthiness regulations..?

    The cost of the rules is a completely separate discussion. The simple fact is that the rules are available to everyone including the general public.

    The part dealing with electric cars is available for free on the internet if you Google it.

    Can you name any country that provides a copy of their national wiring rules for free?

    I know that the NSAI will be making a soft copy of ET101 available to the public for free soon. This has quite a lot in common with IS10101


  • Advertisement


  • 2011 wrote: »
    The cost of the rules is a completely separate discussion.
    Agree, let's stay on topic.
    2011 wrote:
    Can you name any country that provides a copy of their national wiring rules for free?
    No.


Advertisement