PTSB removing Loyalty Current Account

Yggr of Asgard

PTSB has send out a letter informing Loyalty Current Account Customers that as of 25 March they are converting the account into PTSB Current Account 3 and are withdrawing several of the exemptions for the 18€ quarterly maintenance fee.

The only option now is to have a minimum cleared credit balance of 2500€ in the account every day.

They also introduce a 25€ overdraft fee and are lowering the credit interest to 0.01% (for balances up to 1500€).

LollipopJimmy

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

PTSB has send out a letter informing Loyalty Current Account Customers that as of 25 March they are converting the account into PTSB Current Account 3 and are withdrawing several of the exemptions for the 18€ quarterly maintenance fee.

The only option now is to have a minimum cleared credit balance of 2500€ in the account every day.

They also introduce a 25€ overdraft fee and are lowering the credit interest to 0.01% (for balances up to 1500€).

That's me going to Ulster Bank so. No way I'm leaving 2.5k in my current account.

My UB account needs to have 1500 once a month and if it doesn't it's 12euro a 1/4

advertsfox

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

PTSB has send out a letter informing Loyalty Current Account Customers that as of 25 March they are converting the account into PTSB Current Account 3 and are withdrawing several of the exemptions for the 18€ quarterly maintenance fee.

The only option now is to have a minimum cleared credit balance of 2500€ in the account every day.

They also introduce a 25€ overdraft fee and are lowering the credit interest to 0.01% (for balances up to 1500€).

They also have an Explore Cashback account, you get charged €4 per month but get 10c cashback on each transaction and earn up to €5 - so use it enough and it's free.

https://www.permanenttsb.ie/everyday-banking/current-accounts/current-account/

josephsoap

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

PTSB has send out a letter informing Loyalty Current Account Customers that as of 25 March they are converting the account into PTSB Current Account 3 and are withdrawing several of the exemptions for the 18€ quarterly maintenance fee.

The only option now is to have a minimum cleared credit balance of 2500€ in the account every day.

They also introduce a 25€ overdraft fee and are lowering the credit interest to 0.01% (for balances up to 1500€).

Is this the account when you lodge 1500 per month there are no fees, that is now going on 25/3/19?

Delta2113

josephsoap wrote: »

Is this the account when you lodge 1500 per month there are no fees, that is now going on 25/3/19?

-No don't think so that's called "permanenttsb Current".

Yggr of Asgard

josephsoap wrote: »

Is this the account when you lodge 1500 per month there are no fees, that is now going on 25/3/19?

No, this is the Loyalty Current Account we are talking about. The one with you are refering to is the PERMANENT TSB CURRENT ACCOUNT .

It shows this on your bank statement and you also can see a loyality discount on the statement for the fee.

Right now a balance of 1000€ OR salary Lodgement OR borrowing/saving of 100000€ with PTSB are the conditions for this.

It has no overdraft fee and give 0.25% credit interest on funds up to 1500€ when you lodge 1500€ monthly for 10 out of 12 month in a year.

It was a nice free account but it's now gone and this new PTSB Current Account 3 they are offering is not woth the 18€ a quarter in my opinion.

JTMan

Just noticed ... this effects a lot more than just PTSB Loyalty Account holders.

See here.

Legacy current account products effected:
Cash Extra
Loyalty Account
Loyalty Current Account
Standard Current Account
Cashline
Merit Account
Connect
New ptsb Current Account (E4)
Everyday Current Account (credit facilities)(E1)
Everyday Current Account (No credit facilities)(E2)
Cashflow
Current Account
Current Account Plus

All the above product types become:
PTSB CURRENT ACCOUNT1 or
PTSB CURRENT ACCOUNT2 or
PTSB CURRENT ACCOUNT3 or
PTSB CURRENT ACCOUNT4

The key changes are as follows

The exemption criteria for avoiding the maintenance fee on the new accounts will be standardised to a minimum daily cleared balance of €2,500
An overdraft set up/renewal fee will be applicable to all of the new account types
Credit interest will be standardised on the new accounts to 0.01% gross on balances up to €1,500

It seems that PTSB Switch Current Account holders are unaffected.

worker bee

This seems ridiculous to me. It is as if PTSB wants to drive away customers.

I have worked in the service industry and we have all joked that the bar/restaurant would be so much nicer if we had no customers but we never actually meant it.

It seems like PTSB really does want to clear away all those pesky clients.

Also, I thought there was an interest in getting money moving in the economy but penalising customers for not keeping €5,000 in our case (a personal and a joint account) just sitting there seems counterproductive.

This also targets people who can't afford to leave €5,000 in accounts earning minimal interest at all times.

They didn't even offer info on other accounts they have - just said put up with it or move banks.

Yggr of Asgard

Wow it looks like they are cutting down on any account that offers free banking and make it 2500€ balance accross the board.

wonski

There is explore account available.

There is a monthly fee of 4 euro, but you earn 10c for transactions in the account, so as long as you use your card regularly it's free (5 euro limit means they might pay you to use it). There is only monthly lodgement requirement where balance does not need to be maintained.

worker bee

I have been a customer of PTSB for nearly 20 years now (on the ironically named Loyalty account). Get salary paid in and also had a mortgage with them.

I wrote to PTSB several times in recent years about their mortgage interest rates and they refused to drop them at all.

We have recently switched our mortgage to a new lender. So PTSB lost a performing mortgage by refusing to acknowledge customer loyalty at all.

Now they will lose more clients.

Ugh, the hassle of another switch though.

Any tips on which bank offers the simplest procedure and the simplest account?
I did actually quite like the PTSB open24 facility.

James Forde

Will be signing up to to the below:

https://www.kbc.ie/our-products/kbc-current-account/current-account/extra?gclid=Cj0KCQiAhKviBRCNARIsAAGZ7CftGNm6YACsiHQd6udJnmAH-xweWyJKusummqlrFPbCUHYG7O8MaVUaAqICEALw_wcB

JTMan

I don't see why people are talking about switching bank. As others have pointed out, switch product rather than switch bank. Switch product to the PTSB Explore Current Account.

Not everyone is effected. Unaffected accounts seem to be:
PRESTIGE HICA ACCOUNT,
Switch Current account
TUSA CURRENT ACCOUNT
Explore Current Account
Student Account
Teen Account
My Cash
Basic Payment Account
Some accounts held by those aged 60+
Some accounts held by those aged 66+

PTSB have a horrendously long list of legacy products.

Rows Grower

I remember having a chat with customer care rep one time and she told me always keep the Switch Current account I had as I couldn't ever be charged for using that account. The way she said it I thought it must of been in the terms and conditions when I signed.

JTMan

Yeah, the PTSB Switch Current Account was advertised as free banking for life. It is not in the T&C's that it is "for life" but it was advertised as being for life so one would assume that there will never be fees applied to PTSB Switch Current Account holders.

Tar.Aldarion

JTMan wrote: »

I don't see why people are talking about switching bank.

The only way to show them this is actually a move people care about is to stop being a customer with them imo. I've been with them for 30 years and will move if this applies to me.

JTMan

Firstly, take a step backwards and see if you are really effected by this. What is the name of the product that you have with PTSB?

Secondly, while admirable that one takes a stand on things, you are inflicting far more pain on yourself than the bank, by switching.

Again, you can switch to the PTSB Explore Account, and provided you make reasonable usage of your debit card, PTSB will pay you to have the account rather than visa versa. A simple call and this is sorted rather than putting yourself through the often-enormous-hassle of switching banks.

Tar.Aldarion

That's a valid thing to do, the easiest thing your ourselves is often best. It may affect me, I have a loyalty account so I presume I'll be the same as OP. I think they count on inertia or effort stopping people from switching when really it's not that big of a deal to open a bank account, I've opened a few in the last few years for saving and it was painless.

august12

JTMan wrote:

Yeah, the PTSB Switch Current Account was advertised as free banking for life. It is not in the T&C's that it is "for life" but it was advertised as being for life so one would assume that there will never be fees applied to PTSB Switch Current Account holders.

Luckily I have this, for once, I picked a good product all those years ago, they don't make a cent from me, not even from my credit card.

wonski

Agree with jt man. Explore your option before moving away as there are literally two banks that still offer free banking for average earners.

TSB is OK in terms of customer service imo, however switching to another type of account might require visit in the branch. They usually make appointments for that so you won't have to wait in the queue or anything and it is done in private room.

Moving direct debits, salaries, new card etc is a pain.

JTMan

august12 wrote: »

Luckily I have this, for once, I picked a good product all those years ago, they don't make a cent from me, not even from my credit card.

You have probably the best current account product every offered by PTSB but they do make money out of you. PTSB lend out the money in your current account. They pay you 0.25% up to 1,500 EUR and zero above, they then lend, some, of the money out at 3.00% or more. Also, they make chunky money on non-EUR transactions if you use your card for non-EUR payments.

wonski

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

That's a valid thing to do, the easiest thing your ourselves is often best. It may affect me, I have a loyalty account so I presume I'll be the same as OP. I think they count on inertia or effort stopping people from switching when really it's not that big of a deal to open a bank account, I've opened a few in the last few years for saving and it was painless.

It was a valid thing to do where there was Halifax, Ulster etc all offering free banking.

Now you don't have these options. It's all good to vote with your feet when you have a choice, but not everyone does. The KBC product looks good, but with 1k extra to be lodged into the account compared to permanent tsb.

1hnr79jr65

I have just been onto open24.ie about this and logged a formal complaint with them.

Once i get a response i will escalate to the financial services ombudsman.

I have had account with TSB for approx 23 years and what they are pulling is absolute bull crap.

august12

Sour Lemonz wrote:

I have had account with TSB for approx 23 years and what they are pulling is absolute bull crap.

Good on you, as a country we are too complacent. If we don't complain, then nothing changes. I just received good news today on a different issue and am due a refund of a clamping fee,

august12

JTMan wrote:

Also, they make chunky money on non-EUR transactions if you use your card for non-EUR payments.

And that's the reason I have a Revolut card.

Yggr of Asgard

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

I have just been onto open24.ie about this and logged a formal complaint with them.

Once i get a response i will escalate to the financial services ombudsman.

I have had account with TSB for approx 23 years and what they are pulling is absolute bull crap.

I hope you let us know how you get on.

They have the right to change the T&C and end this, but I'm looking for the original T&C that I signed because I think when I orginally opened it they promised that the account was free as long as I keept it.

I will contact them and ask for the orginal T&C and see what options I have than.

1hnr79jr65

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

I hope you let us know how you get on.

They have the right to change the T&C and end this, but I'm looking for the original T&C that I signed because I think when I orginally opened it they promised that the account was free as long as I keept it.

I will contact them and ask for the orginal T&C and see what options I have than.

Once i escalated to ombudsman my next step is a data access request for copy of original agreement i signed.

As i said to the guy in open24, TSB sold off thousands of "non performing loans" in their words late last year and this step with current accounts is another attempt to just increase the profitability of the bank. Needless to say this guy had nothing he could say to that.

When i threatened to pull my account, my partners account, our mortgage plus after discussion with immediate family and friends in same position, 19 other accounts (mix savings and mortgage) to give business to likes of KBC or EBS with their 3% cashback he was all apologetic and promised to have someone senior contact me (i will not be holding my breath for this) to discuss my concerns then waffled how this is in line with Euro Central Bank changes.

I will update once i hear more, yes they have right to change T's and C's but i also have right to take business from them as their new "offer" is nothing short of a slap in the face of a long time customer.

1hnr79jr65

august12 wrote: »

And that's the reason I have a Revolut card.

An Post bank and credit unions with their entry into mortgage market could become a good option now also.

wonski

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

An Post bank and credit unions with their entry into mortgage market could become a good option now also.

An post?

5 euro a month will allow you for 1 free transaction a month. Seriously? Why would that be an option?

An post is the worst account ever, even visiting their website give you an impression of some amateur reseller. You can't see it on mobile anyway

wonski

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Once i escalated to ombudsman my next step is a data access request for copy of original agreement i signed.

As i said to the guy in open24, TSB sold off thousands of "non performing loans" in their words late last year and this step with current accounts is another attempt to just increase the profitability of the bank. Needless to say this guy had nothing he could say to that.

When i threatened to pull my account, my partners account, our mortgage plus after discussion with immediate family and friends in same position, 19 other accounts (mix savings and mortgage) to give business to likes of KBC or EBS with their 3% cashback he was all apologetic and promised to have someone senior contact me (i will not be holding my breath for this) to discuss my concerns then waffled how this is in line with Euro Central Bank changes.

I will update once i hear more, yes they have right to change T's and C's but i also have right to take business from them as their new "offer" is nothing short of a slap in the face of a long time customer.

Of course you do and the ombudsman won't even touch this case. There is no reason.

I think some posters go a little to ballistic there.

The bank needs to cut down the number of banking products they have. The best way to do it is to force remaining customers onto the more modern and up to date products.

Either switch the account to the existing free one, or move elsewhere and pay.

Ombudsman won't touch it and there is no reason to even mention it.

Yggr of Asgard

wonski wrote: »

The bank needs to cut down the number of banking products they have. The best way to do it is to force remaining customers onto the more modern and up to date products. .

There is no difference in the function of the accounts, why are bringing modern or up to date products into this discussion?

My loyality current account is no different than any other account (same visa card, same open24, same functions). The only difference is that I don't pay a maintenance fee. And I don't get the reward for using my card but technicaly there is no difference.

If the account on offer was more modern (like google pay, visa card notifications in app etc.) obviously that would be a more modern or up to date product.

This is simply a process to get everybody to pay for their bank accounts, nothing to do with offering a new more modern product.

wonski

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

There is no difference in the function of the accounts, why are bringing modern or up to date products into this discussion?

My loyality current account is no different than any other account (same visa card, same open24, same functions). The only difference is that I don't pay a maintenance fee. And I don't get the reward for using my card but technicaly there is no difference.

If the account on offer was more modern (like google pay, visa card notifications in app etc.) obviously that would be a more modern or up to date product.

This is simply a process to get everybody to pay for their bank accounts, nothing to do with offering a new more modern product.

I don't pay for banking. Never paid.

You can either send letters etc or just switch to the one that doesn't cost you money. That's all I am saying.

I am not defending any bank and personally find the interes rates ridicolous. But your loyalty account is an old product they want to get away with. That's it.

Yggr of Asgard

wonski wrote: »

I don't pay for banking. Never paid.

You can either send letters etc or just switch to the one that doesn't cost you money. That's all I am saying.

I am not defending any bank and personally find the interes rates ridicolous. But your loyalty account is an old product they want to get away with. That's it.

The only true free banking in Ireland is ESB (unless you are willing to go with N26), all other banks have conditions for it to be free (or sort of free).

Sour Lemonz might be one of those customers who got promised banking free for life or as long as you bank with us, so s/he clearly has the right to complain and request the T&C for the account he signed up for.

If nobody ever complaints nothing ever will change. Without someone complaining most goverment agencies still would not allow the usage of non-irish accounts for direct debit for example.

So if Sour Lemonz wants to go down that route, well good.

Bojill

Looks like I'll have to switch both of our accounts to the explore so, and get a little creative with the card usage on both accounts.
They also give 5 % back on Sky and SSE direct debits.

Roanmore

JTMan wrote: »

Firstly, take a step backwards and see if you are really effected by this. What is the name of the product that you have with PTSB?

Secondly, while admirable that one takes a stand on things, you are inflicting far more pain on yourself than the bank, by switching.

Again, you can switch to the PTSB Explore Account, and provided you make reasonable usage of your debit card, PTSB will pay you to have the account rather than visa versa. A simple call and this is sorted rather than putting yourself through the often-enormous-hassle of switching banks.

Is it possible to switch to the Explore account online. I checked on Open24 and can’t find anything. Thanks

JTMan

Fairly sure you need to ring 1890 500 121 or +353 1 212 4101 or go to a branch.

1hnr79jr65

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

The only true free banking in Ireland is ESB (unless you are willing to go with N26), all other banks have conditions for it to be free (or sort of free).

Sour Lemonz might be one of those customers who got promised banking free for life or as long as you bank with us, so s/he clearly has the right to complain and request the T&C for the account he signed up for.

If nobody ever complaints nothing ever will change. Without someone complaining most goverment agencies still would not allow the usage of non-irish accounts for direct debit for example.

So if Sour Lemonz wants to go down that route, well good.

When i got my first mortgage at age of 20, part of the agreement was i would retain my current account without any account related charges for life, not life of mortgage but life of account being open.

What they are doing is taking something away from me which i dont agree to as i signed an agreement when i took a mortgage to retain for the life of the account.

I don't know what chance i have of stopping them but your right if i dont try i wont know.

Yggr of Asgard

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

When i got my first mortgage at age of 20, part of the agreement was i would retain my current account without any account related charges for life, not life of mortgage but life of account being open.

What they are doing is taking something away from me which i dont agree to as i signed an agreement when i took a mortgage to retain for the life of the account.

I don't know what chance i have of stopping them but your right if i dont try i wont know.

That exactly is my point, you might have a valid claim to take to the regulator.

Damien360

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

When i got my first mortgage at age of 20, part of the agreement was i would retain my current account without any account related charges for life, not life of mortgage but life of account being open.

What they are doing is taking something away from me which i dont agree to as i signed an agreement when i took a mortgage to retain for the life of the account.

I don't know what chance i have of stopping them but your right if i dont try i wont know.

I got my mortgage in 1999 and I was promised similar but the trade name on the account changed (can't remember titles but let's say free to must keep balance). This title change has happened a few times and is usually in line with my change of bank cards as they expire.

They used to send T&C with your new card and it is highly likely that acceptance of the card is acceptance of change of charges. You can be damn sure neither of us would have a leg to stand on in any court with regards charges.

We were all promised many moons ago by the state that it would be made easier to change bank to allow people shop around and create competition. That never happened or at least is just lip service. Changing your Direct Debits even now is a pain in the arse. Can't imagine the pain with a new bank.

ted1

JTMan wrote: »

I don't see why people are talking about switching bank. As others have pointed out, switch product rather than switch bank. Switch product to the PTSB Explore Current Account.

Not everyone is effected. Unaffected accounts seem to be:
PRESTIGE HICA ACCOUNT,
Switch Current account
TUSA CURRENT ACCOUNT
Explore Current Account
Student Account
Teen Account
My Cash
Basic Payment Account
Some accounts held by those aged 60+
Some accounts held by those aged 66+

PTSB have a horrendously long list of legacy products.

Its called voting with our feet

1hnr79jr65

ted1 wrote: »

Its called voting with our feet

Thats exactly the point, if they insist on this change and regulator does not wish to pursue PTSB for this i will take my business and others business elsewhere. Bit hard to have power over customers when they leave you.

JTMan

The T&C's for the Loyalty Account are on page 9 and page 10 here. There is no mention of the exemptions to fees lasting "for life" nor "for the duration of the account held".

Its called voting with our feet

If you wish go ahead and go through the pain of switching bank rather than simply switching product.

regulator does not wish to pursue PTSB for this

I guess you mean Ombudsman. The Ombudsman has no grounds to pursue this unless there is evidence that PTSB are breaking terms or evidence of mis-selling. I have seen no hard evidence of this thus far.

Tar.Aldarion

Going to move to kbc, the savings account is much better already and the oercebtage is added to if you have a current account.

Rows Grower

I opened a new account with AIB recently is there any advantage in me switching my Loyalty account to them?

It has regular payments to and regular bills paid from it plus the debit card on it is used.

If there's a better deal out there I wouldn't mind contacting the companies to give them new bank details.

1874

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

I have just been onto open24.ie about this and logged a formal complaint with them.

Once i get a response i will escalate to the financial services ombudsman.

I have had account with TSB for approx 23 years and what they are pulling is absolute bull crap.

august12 wrote: »

Good on you, as a country we are too complacent. If we don't complain, then nothing changes. I just received good news today on a different issue and am due a refund of a clamping fee,

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

An Post bank and credit unions with their entry into mortgage market could become a good option now also.

Ive logged a few complaints with PTSB over the last few years, rarely do they go anywhere, I got a few letters saying they were investigating my complaints and nothing ever came of it. I have a switch current account and I like the online setup, but I think there should be a reward for loyalty, they have already dialed down the rates of interest on a number of savings accounts, dont expect complaints to go anywhere, I still think its good to make them though if there is a poor service, otherwise they are off the hook/wont know if no feedback/will do whatever they please if they think no one will complain (as with anyone/service provider).
I still think the CU and An Post are potentially good options for other purposes than daily banking and that may even be possible or should be.

dennyk

worker bee wrote: »

This seems ridiculous to me. It is as if PTSB wants to drive away customers.

That's because they do. If a customer only has one of these legacy fee-free accounts and doesn't even carry an average daily balance of at least a few grand, then they are not making the bank any money; in fact, if they are making too many transactions or if they ever interact with customer service or (worse yet) an in-person teller, they are most likely costing the bank money. At best they might be a future potential upsale for some other product that does make a profit, like a mortgage or other loan or some high-fee investment product, but the bank will have plenty of data on exactly how many of these legacy customers actually end up buying these other products, and if it's a low enough percentage, then it is no longer in the best interest of the bank to keep these folks around under the terms of their legacy accounts. If you're not creating a profit for the bank and you aren't statistically likely to become more profitable for them in the near future, then they are more than happy to see you gone. It's just the way these things work, I'm afraid; that's business, as they say...

Sheep Shagger

As a matter of interest why do people think they should be entitled to free transactional banking?

You get the benefits of technology but don't want to pay anything for it?

AlmightyCushion

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

As a matter of interest why do people think they should be entitled to free transactional banking?

You get the benefits of technology but don't want to pay anything for it?

No one is entitled to it but if others are offering it, then it would be stupid to pay PTSB for banking when switching will get you free banking.

ted1

JTMan wrote: »

The T&C's for the Loyalty Account are on page 9 and page 10 here. There is no mention of the exemptions to fees lasting "for life" nor "for the duration of the account held".



If you wish go ahead and go through the pain of switching bank rather than simply switching product.



I guess you mean Ombudsman. The Ombudsman has no grounds to pursue this unless there is evidence that PTSB are breaking terms or evidence of mis-selling. I have seen no hard evidence of this thus far.

What pain ? I just send a mail to payroll and PTSB transfers all payments to my new account.

Rows Grower

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

As a matter of interest why do people think they should be entitled to free transactional banking?

You get the benefits of technology but don't want to pay anything for it?

The banks are using our money, they provide a service but make huge profits from the money they are given to mind. They are trying to push us into a cashless society whereby anytime we want to spend our own money they make a profit.

They are tearing the arse out of it slowly but surely.

There was a time when you could deal with people who worked for the bank, now it's almost impossible to speak to one on the phone.

ted1

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

As a matter of interest why do people think they should be entitled to free transactional banking?

You get the benefits of technology but don't want to pay anything for it?

Because the bank have my money on deposit. They pay little interest and in turn loan out my money and charge a high interest rate on it.

They make money off the back of my money