Discovery 2x02 - "New Eden" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Spear

So they're being manipulated into doing various good deeds, does this season even have a big bad villain?

I note the pointed efforts to fill in background to some of the bridge crew, as well as simply more lines for them overall. A bit late but welcome.

It's also a relief they avoided some stereotypical sci-fi stuff, e.g. the colonists try to burn them as witches upon seeing their tech, that kind of thing.

BrookieD

Very much felt like a Trek episode, i think its moving in the right direction and like the direction so far...

flazio

Directed by the original "Number 1" Jonathan Frakes. Loved it. I understand how different people struggle with different characters, (personally I'm struggling to empathise with Stamets) but how is that any different to real life. I'm starting to wonder though if this angel is related to the Caretaker from Voyager.

FutureGuy

This is a really good episode but it feels like they condensed a film into 55 and it suffers from a pace that is too fast and too hurried at times - it relied too much on narrative explaining everything to the audience. I have a few gripes but that's the same with any episode of TV.

It felt very like a traditional trek story so I think that will appease some (but of course, not all) Trek fans. The wider season arc is beginning to reveal itself. Episode 1 sees them react to a red signal and pick up a Dark Matter asteroid. Episode 3 sees them react to a second red burst to prevent a catastrophe with an object picked up because of the first burst. Are they being guided to intervene? As mentioned, this season will be about science vs faith so it's being set up well.

Tilly's ghost is something of curveball but I think that might have something to do with the green light that fell on her in the final episode of season 1.

I would like to see some episodes where Michael takes a bit of a back seat though. I can understand why some posters are annoyed by her character.

Tristram

Really enjoyed that episode. Looking forward to more!

corkie

As others have said felt like classic trek with a problem to solve (/away mission) within the episode.

Have we some Q like being (/omnipotent being) interfering/guiding discovery's path?

TheValeyard

Absolutely brilliant episode.

A nice mix of old Trek and new Trek. It also now has me interested in the Red Angel mystery.

Great dialogue and nice to have a lack of pew pew pew

Spear

More rambling disjointed thoughts.

I like that there's more of a sense of mystery in this. Where season 1 had it's surprise twists, this season refrains from just laying it all out on a platter.

Is Chief Reno gone completely already? They made a bit of PR noise when she was cast, so I'm assuming she'll reappear later.

If the avatar of May Ahern/Tillys ghost is coming from the mycelial network, that fits with Stamets comments about the network recording/mirroring things, including people. But the avatar provided info on how to save the colonists, so is it actively opposing the red angel or just sympathetic to Tilly.

Goodshape

Loved it! Proper Trek episode. Great stuff

Sad Professor

Very pleased with that episode. It definitely captures that old fashioned Star Trek spirit.

Fenster

The dialogue felt grindy and stilted.

pixelburp

As already said, a very traditional Trek episode, with the flourish and budget of a modern show. It felt more cinematic than the actual "prewarp agrarian society" film, Insurrection)

And there's definitely a mandate to give the other crew members more lines and input; once more the helm get to take part in the adventure, though the lady who joined the away party didn't really do much (other than break the team out from the cellar). Keep up that good work, kill of Burnham and it can be a show about Pike, Saru, Tilly and co.

So... Tillys ghost then? I'm thinking something to do with the spore network ala the dead doctor...

AMKC

I have to say I am glad I watched that as it was a really good episode and very like Star Trek of old. I did think it seemed a little rushed in parts and could have done with another 5 to 10 minutes. Its strange the first episode got an hour and this one is shorter. I do think they could have took the residents of that planet as they were from Earth. They could have just asked if they wanted to go home to Earth or not as they were from Earth I think the Prime Directive does not apply unless they were very primitive like the 37's in Voyager for instance. Of course then Discovery would have to make the jump a few hundred times if they all wanted to go back to Earth as I doubt they could carry them all in one go. They could have at least asked Jason he seemed to have no problem understanding and was not brainwashed by religion.

flazio

flazio wrote: »

Directed by the original "Number 1" Jonathan Frakes. Loved it. I understand how different people struggle with different characters, (personally I'm struggling to empathise with Stamets) but how is that any different to real life. I'm starting to wonder though if this angel is related to the Caretaker from Voyager.

Franks isn't the original

fritzelly

Really enjoyed that episode, Red Angel is becoming very interesting.

AMKC

So I just finished watching episode 5 of the Orville and I know some people like it and some don't but I am watching both shows. Its a really good episode too and goes to show why some things in Star Trek are right namely a certain directive even do it gets broke sometimes. The Union has a different view but I would say after this episode they might be reviewing it. The episode is really good oh and there is a new security officer too who I have to say I like.

Evade

How did Burnham pick up that rock in the last episode if 1cm^3 has a mass of over 1000kg?

Evade

Evade wrote: »

How did Burnham pick up that rock in the last episode if 1cm^3 has a mass of over 1000kg?

I said the exact same thing to my wife earlier.

Probably some handwaving about gravemetric fields working in opposition or some such

fritzelly

Evade wrote: »

How did Burnham pick up that rock in the last episode if 1cm^3 has a mass of over 1000kg?

Probably something to do with being in a different gravity field, dark matter and all that, kinda makes sense

Sonics2k

Thoroughly enjoyed that one. Proper Trek storyline, hints at a wider story arc.

Frakes did a great job directing it too.

flazio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Franks isn't the original

I'm open to correction but wasn't Patrick Stewart the first to call their commander "No.1"?

Optimus Prime

flazio wrote: »

I'm open to correction but wasn't Patrick Stewart the first to call their commander "No.1"?

Pike in the cage calls Majel Barret No1. First ever ep of Trek.

Loved this ep, first time I felt like I was watching proper old school Star Trek and not the JJ type stuff. I’ve really enjoyed discovery , but that one was good for me. Really like pike too.

Slydice

Decent episode. Cool to see more development of the timeline around World War 3

Optimus Prime wrote: »

Pike in the cage calls Majel Barret No1. First ever ep of Trek.

I was thinking about her absense during the computer voice parts of this episode

This is the first Trek series she's not involved in

FutureGuy

While I think season 1 was very good, I don’t think it’s very rewatchable. Both episodes this year don’t have that issue here. Watched this episode again with my wife this morning. Enjoyed it again and the fast pace didn’t bother me as much.

Great scene between Pike and Jason in the end.

As for the red angel, there are very few races we know are capable of instant transportation.

Stark

FutureGuy wrote: »

While I think season 1 was very good, I don’t think it’s very rewatchable.

Yeah I felt the same. Loved season 1 but most of the excitement came from the plot twists and cliffhangers. Once you know what's coming, it's not the same.

Is it too early to say that Pike is the new Star of the show.
While the story is heavily centered on Michael, he is stealing every scene he's in

Acosta

Enjoyable but so far thought season one was better. There's a big Jason Isaacs hole in this new season. Thought he was the best thing about the show.

Johnny Storm

That episode out a smile on my face!:pac:

There was not much to dislike about it at all, but I am willing to make the effort: :pac:

- The phaser incident did throw me out of the moment. Full marks to Pike for doing his Captain America thing but what was happening with the phaser? If that girl had fired the phaser surely something would have been phased/melted immediately? If she had set it to overload then there should have been the loud whining sound for several minutes while it builds up to overload, plus if it had overloaded the whole village would be toast. I just don't get how a phaser can make a small explosion that breaks someones ribs? If they are going to make a fetish out of sticking to canon (Spock, the Enterprise etc) then they need to look after these details.

This is how its really done: Double Red Alert

- I couldn't help but think that if Picard was there he would have invited that "scientist" dude to come with them after he revealed the Prime directive secret to him. Bit of a missed opportunity?

-In some ways this ep was too traditional, too conventional?

Enough whinging out of me - really enjoyed the ep and looking forward to future eps with renewed hope!

Pike was brilliant. well they all were.
tilly ghost probs something to do with the spore drive, agreed

I like how they turned the locals stereotype on its head - set it up with the ominous bible quotes than bam, we're all besties. great stuff

AMKC

Johnny Storm wrote: »

That episode out a smile on my face!:pac:

There was not much to dislike about it at all, but I am willing to make the effort: :pac:

- The phaser incident did throw me out of the moment. Full marks to Pike for doing his Captain America thing but what was happening with the phaser? If that girl had fired the phaser surely something would have been phased/melted immediately? If she had set it to overload then there should have been the loud whining sound for several minutes while it builds up to overload, plus if it had overloaded the whole village would be toast. I just don't get how a phaser can make a small explosion that breaks someones ribs? If they are going to make a fetish out of sticking to canon (Spock, the Enterprise etc) then they need to look after these details.

This is how its really done: Double Red Alert

- I couldn't help but think that if Picard was there he would have invited that "scientist" dude to come with them after he revealed the Prime directive secret to him. Bit of a missed opportunity?

-In some ways this ep was too traditional, too conventional?

Enough whinging out of me - really enjoyed the ep and looking forward to future eps with renewed hope!

but what was happening with the phaser?

I took it that it was on overload maybe just not a full power overload.

If they are going to make a fetish out of sticking to canon (Spock, the Enterprise etc) then they need to look after these details.

I agree they should.

In some ways this ep was too traditional, too conventional?

I disagree there. Its the type of episodes they need to do more. It was almost a perfect episode if they could just get rid of the silly spore drive and any thing connected to the spore drive it would be much better.

FutureGuy

AMKC wrote: »

but what was happening with the phaser?

I took it that it was on overload maybe just not a full power overload.

If they are going to make a fetish out of sticking to canon (Spock, the Enterprise etc) then they need to look after these details.

I agree they should.

In some ways this ep was too traditional, too conventional?

I disagree there. Its the type of episodes they need to do more. It was almost a perfect episode if they could just get rid of the silly spore drive and any thing connected to the spore drive it would be much better.

They way I look at the spore drive is as follows.

The USS Excelsior had the prototype for Starfleet’s first transwarp engine. An engine that had been undoubtedly tested to show it works.

Scotty pulled a few pieces out of the engine and that was THE LAST TIME WE EVER HEARD ABOUT THE TRANSWARP ENGINE.

I think Trek fans these days are far less forgiving of the this type of thing. The spore drive may cause a huge problem in series to come, rendering the tech useless.

Spear

I think I see why the asteroid fragment suddenly weighs so much, yet Burnham could pick up a chunk previously.

Tilly explicitly, but briefly, comments that the fragment grabbed into the shuttle bay was heavily charged with metreon particles causing it to generate extreme gravity.

Presumably the fist sized chunk Burnham grabbed wasn't carrying a charge, leaving just the dark matter remnant.

Blazer

Really enjoying Pike as the new Captain.
Saru was a bit off and unsure of himself in this one..which is strange as he captained the ship and is 2nd in command so crap writing there.

Can take Michael or leave..bit of a know it all is annoying but not even close to Tilly who is a completely ridiculous character in a Star trek show.
I'm dreading the thoughts of her getting more airtime in it as she's a major turnoff in any of her scenes.

Sonics2k

Okay, I'm being a little bit nit-picky here, but is it just me or did Saru's mouth prosthesis seem a little bit... off?

Sonics2k

Sonics2k wrote: »

Okay, I'm being a little bit nit-picky here, but is it just me or did Saru's mouth prosthesis seem a little bit... off?

A small bit stiffer looking?

pixelburp

The mouth piece / part did seem a little stiffer or badly attached, could just have been an honest mistake during filming as in the premiere he seemed fine.

Gotta respect Doug Jones for his commitment to these sort of unconventional roles.

Goodshape

Huh, I noticed a difference with Saru alright but I thought it was an improvement. Was a fleeting scene though and I forgot to pay any more attention to it.

I've not really been a fan of the makeup on this show so far anyway though. It's all too heavy.

TheIrishGrover

I enjoyed that episode also. As many have stated, it was quite traditional Trek fare. Again, very high production values for an episode that could have been done on the cheap (How many Trek episodes rely on the auld Humans-where-they-shouldn't-be-replicating-nice-and-reusable-sets-from-other-period-TV-show)

So my usual overvalues two cents worth:

• Liked the overall tone of the episode.
• Stamets again. Easily one of my favourite characters
• The soldier video footage
• I liked that the people knew where they came from without reverting to the typical Sci-Fi trope: "In the time before the remember-time there was a terrible war. Iron birds dropped new clear eggs and they burned everything" and all that kind of stuff ("Waaaaaaalker!!!!!!").
  
  Interestingly I liked that this version of the WWIII is quite a 60's version(In keeping with TOS I suppose). In that it was planes dropping nuclear weapons and a huge casualty-rate as opposed to the Mutually Assured Destruction of ICBM warfare. Thought it was a nice nod to 60s thinking. That WWIII would be survivable.
• The new doctor. Obviously trying to go McCoy grumpy without doing Polaski unlikeable.
• Liked that the officer who went down with Burnham and Pike (I am TERRIBLE with names) wasn't a Redshirt.
• Liked Pike's respectful attitude to the locals' beliefs.

Didn't Like/Meh

• Yeah, Pike surviving the Phaser Overload.
• Dial back the chippy chippy chatter just a little bit. Just a bit: The whole Donut scenes.
• No Tig whatshername. (I don't know if she is scheduled to reappear again)

It is interesting to see some people complain that the episode was a little too old school. They can never win

So yeah, I really liked that episode but then I've liked the series from the start.

_Kaiser_

Well I watched it the other night, and credit where it's due, it was a decent episode. A lot more classic Trek in tone than anything Discovery has done so far.

Aside from the reliance on fancy CGI and 'splosions to carry the show which was thankfully dialed back in this episode, my main problem I think is I just don't like the characters - with the exception of Pike and Saru.
Burnham continues to grate every time she opens her mouth (again with the "I know better" openly questioning the natives beliefs in what would be a delicate situation), Tilly is still woefully out of place and irritating whenever she's on screen, Staments is a bit of a "meh" character that if he wasn't there I don't think anyone would really miss him. The rest of the bridge crew now seem to be backup comedy relief as opposed to just anonymous.

Agree with the above though that Pike is stealing the show at this point. Lorca was equally great in that role. I think having Burnham being the centre of the universe/show just isn't working out and if they reduced that, or even killed her off (and Tilly - maybe in a tragic transporter or shuttle accident ), the show would be a lot better for it.

pixelburp

Something tells me in 20 years time fans will still be debating / arguing over Tilly. Definitely a marmite character. ..

Or she would be, only she's awesome and anyone who says otherwise is wrong :P

Sonics2k

Deleted User wrote: »

A small bit stiffer looking?

Stiffer, but also looser at the same time. There was one scene in particular and I swear I could see his mouth behind it. Again, really just nitpicking as overall I really enjoyed the episode.

Pike is really growing on me, he's stealing the show.

PhiloCypher

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Well I watched it the other night, and credit where it's due, it was a decent episode. A lot more classic Trek in tone than anything Discovery has done so far.

Aside from the reliance on fancy CGI and 'splosions to carry the show which was thankfully dialed back in this episode, my main problem I think is I just don't like the characters - with the exception of Pike and Saru.
Burnham continues to grate every time she opens her mouth (again with the "I know better" openly questioning the natives beliefs in what would be a delicate situation), Tilly is still woefully out of place and irritating whenever she's on screen, Staments is a bit of a "meh" character that if he wasn't there I don't think anyone would really miss him. The rest of the bridge crew now seem to be backup comedy relief as opposed to just anonymous.

Agree with the above though that Pike is stealing the show at this point. Lorca was equally great in that role. I think having Burnham being the centre of the universe/show just isn't working out and if they reduced that, or even killed her off (and Tilly - maybe in a tragic transporter or shuttle accident ), the show would be a lot better for it.

I'll take an interesting characters like Saru or a flawed character like Burnham over a bunch of likeable Mayweathers any day of the week. People are far too obsessed with having characters be likeable right off the bat. Just like the Roddenberry no conflict edict hamstrung the TNG writers early on, the Discovery writers would be typing with one hand tied behind their back if they just made them all bland ciphers. Could they dial Burnham's know it all-ness sure, but then Spock lectured Kirk all the time too, and given Burnham is his Vulcan raised step sister and also a fellow science officer it's an entirely intentional parallel by the writers, and not just them making her randomly abrasive .

seamus

Kudos to Anson Mount. As I saw said on reddit, the portrayal of Pike feels like slipping into an old comfortable jacket. He's got exactly the right mix of Kirk and Picard - brash and honest but with a strong sense of duty and responsibility to his crew. We never really knew much about Pike except for the appearance in TOS, and to be fair it was Bruce Greenwood in the reboot films that set the template.

But it works, really well.

Mount's mannerisms constantly remind me of Billy Bob Thornton

CramCycle

PhiloCypher wrote: »

I'll take an interesting characters like Saru or a flawed character like Burnham over a bunch of likeable Mayweathers any day of the week. People are far too obsessed with having characters be likeable right off the bat. Just like the Roddenberry no conflict edict hamstrung the TNG writers early on, the Discovery writers would be typing with one hand tied behind their back if they just made them all bland ciphers. Could they dial Burnham's know it all-ness sure, but then Spock lectured Kirk all the time too, and given Burnham is his Vulcan raised step sister and also a fellow science officer it's an entirely intentional parallel by the writers, and not just them making her randomly abrasive .

Mayweather was likeable? I thought he was an annoyance and not someone you'd ever hang around with in the real world. Like most of the Enterprise, 1D characters were the flavour at the time, it was like watching a TV version of Twilight (but in Space)

PhiloCypher

CramCycle wrote: »

Mayweather was likeable? I thought he was an annoyance and not someone you'd ever hang around with in the real world. Like most of the Enterprise, 1D characters were the flavour at the time, it was like watching a TV version of Twilight (but in Space)

He was the writers idea of likeable, their Harry Kim , someone so anodyne nobody could dislike or possibly be offended by. The problem with that is characters that bland just aren't relatable.

TheValeyard

PhiloCypher wrote: »

He was the writers idea of likeable, their Harry Kim , someone so anodyne nobody could dislike or possibly be offended by. The problem with that is characters that bland just aren't relatable.

Harry Kim was dull in every universe he's been in.

Stark

I wonder would a Mirror Universe Harry Kim been as dull.

TheValeyard

Stark wrote: »

I wonder would a Mirror Universe Harry Kim been as dull.

He is the one constant throughout the multiverse. He is the anchor of dullness.

CramCycle

I bet you mirror Kim was awesome, everyone loved him, really interesting, always said the right thing, comedy wit that somehow humoured without offending everyone. Died a hero when a warp core ejection failed, he had to go in and kick a coupling loose, getting dragged out with it. Disabled the transporters before he did as he knew he would be to irradiated to bring back to the ship safely. Real world Kim was that guy no one liked but couldn't actually justify why they didn't like him so they awkwardly tolerated him, probably arrested a few years after getting back to earth by a serious crimes unit for cutting people but not for any reason, just because he snapped when left to his own devices, they found a number of flayed animals in his basement and videos of him pretending their intestines were parts of sub space and he was flying a toy voyager around like the way a kid plays with toy cars.

Real world Kim reminds me of if Arnold Rimmer was made into a realistic character and stripped of all humanity. Mirror Kim would have been like Ace Rimmer.