Erth subsoiler / panbuster

Reggie.

What are people's thoughts on this machine? Thinking of getting on for the business but not sure if there is a need from farmers? Would it be a foolish investment?

Anyone any experience of its work?

https://youtu.be/vepx5hVO8NQ

White Clover

Reggie. wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on this machine? Thinking of getting on for the business but not sure if there is a need from farmers? Would it be a foolish investment?

Anyone any experience of its work?

https://youtu.be/vepx5hVO8NQ

I considered one before Reggie. Now I'm of the belief that they are worthless. If a farmer has compaction issues, they need to let worms, weather etc do the work. No amount of diesel burned and metal worn will do the job like nature intended.

charolais0153

Reggie. wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on this machine? Thinking of getting on for the business but not sure if there is a need from farmers? Would it be a foolish investment?

Anyone any experience of its work?

https://youtu.be/vepx5hVO8NQ

Think the alstrong aerator is the best

Say my name

White Clover wrote: »

I considered one before Reggie. Now I'm of the belief that they are worthless. If a farmer has compaction issues, they need to let worms, weather etc do the work. No amount of diesel burned and metal worn will do the job like nature intended.

It's a bit like the chicken and the egg though. Which comes first?

You could be waiting on the worms and doing all the wrong things but still waiting, waiting.

But then you get a summer like we've just had and it breaks open the ground deep down and there's a proliferation of worms after.


I reckon Reggie is working in Devenish country up there.
https://www.devenishnutrition.com/products-services/soil-improvement-programme

As subsoilers/aerators go it looks from someone here with no experience of this machine a better prospect than those roller types.

Reggie.

charolais0153 wrote: »

Think the alstrong aerator is the best

Tried that and they don't work I'm afraid. Many others have tried also

farisfat

Reggie. wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on this machine? Thinking of getting on for the business but not sure if there is a need from farmers? Would it be a foolish investment?

Anyone any experience of its work?

https://youtu.be/vepx5hVO8NQ

What size tractor is needed to pull one?..and what price are they.
I do some mole ploughing here but it brings up a lot of stones.

Reggie.

farisfat wrote: »

What size tractor is needed to pull one?..and what price are they.
I do some mole ploughing here but it brings up a lot of stones.

I'm told it's roughly 30hp per leg. Retailing at roughly €7700 + vat for the 3 leg one

queueeye

Used the same type machine here on compacted areas of tillage ground headlands etc. Fantastic job, opened the whole place up and grew far better crops afterwards. No need to plough afterwards either, straight in with the power harrow. Never used it on grassland but imagine results would be similar.
Ground needs to be extremely dry though, otherwise it’s a waste of time.

moneyheer

I have one here good job when conditions are right ie dry. Pulled a 4 leg one with n91 valtra when I had it first handled it ok

Reggie.

moneyheer wrote: »

I have one here good job when conditions are right ie dry. Pulled a 4 leg one with n91 valtra when I had it first handled it ok

Always hear good reports but will farmers pay for it is the thing

davidk1394

Reggie. wrote: »

Tried that and they don't work I'm afraid. Many others have tried also

Their a waste of time and do nothing. Friend bought one and is now trying to sell it again. Does nothing and nearly causes more harm than good

MickeyShtyles

queueeye wrote: »

Used the same type machine here on compacted areas of tillage ground headlands etc. Fantastic job, opened the whole place up and grew far better crops afterwards. No need to plough afterwards either, straight in with the power harrow. Never used it on grassland but imagine results would be similar.
Ground needs to be extremely dry though, otherwise it’s a waste of time.

Are you not talking about a heavy grubber?

Gawddawggonnit

davidk1394 wrote: »

Their a waste of time and do nothing. Friend bought one and is now trying to sell it again. Does nothing and nearly causes more harm than good

There are two simple, but very dangerous machines on farms.
One is a roller, the other is a subsoiler.

Years like 2018 are perfect for subsoiling...otherwise leave it in the nettles!

queueeye

MickeyShtyles wrote: »

queueeye wrote: »

Used the same type machine here on compacted areas of tillage ground headlands etc. Fantastic job, opened the whole place up and grew far better crops afterwards. No need to plough afterwards either, straight in with the power harrow. Never used it on grassland but imagine results would be similar.
Ground needs to be extremely dry though, otherwise it’s a waste of time.

Are you not talking about a heavy grubber?

No

dohc turbo2

The clips on YouTube all looks good they pack the ground lovely after but there all done in soft conditions, waist of time, same as pulling a straw trough soap , done in correct conditions when u can break the pan it works well in fairness , dairy man beside me dose ground every year

vincenzolorenzo

Used a tillage version shake-aerator to break up a few pans a few years ago. Sections of the field that were holding lochs of water every winter. Made a savage difference, field hasn't held water since. So the machine definitely does the job. Whether there's enough interest and potential customers for it, I wouldn't know

Reggie.

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Used a tillage version shake-aerator to break up a few pans a few years ago. Sections of the field that were holding lochs of water every winter. Made a savage difference, field hasn't held water since. So the machine definitely does the job. Whether there's enough interest and potential customers for it, I wouldn't know

That's the million dollar question

GrasstoMilk

We used a horsch disc with 5 legs on the front that go 13 inches deep on a reseed last may.
Made some difference to the field. Even now the ground is still nice and loose and you'd stick a piece of rebar a foot into the ground no problem. We tilled in 40t of dung per acre aswell which was also a good job.

12 acres ear marked for reseeding in April. Will be doing the very same with it.

The lad that owns the machine has gotten an unbelievable amount of reseeding work since buying the machine. Lads 40 miles from him are looking for him to do reseeding. He sows after it with a power harrow

Reggie.

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

We used a horsch disc with 5 legs on the front that go 13 inches deep on a reseed last may.
Made some difference to the field. Even now the ground is still nice and loose and you'd stick a piece of rebar a foot into the ground no problem. We tilled in 40t of dung per acre aswell which was also a good job.

12 acres ear marked for reseeding in April. Will be doing the very same with it.

The lad that owns the machine has gotten an unbelievable amount of reseeding work since buying the machine. Lads 40 miles from him are looking for him to do reseeding. He sows after it with a power harrow

That loose soil ain't good around the heavy ground around here

_Brian

Reggie. wrote: »

That loose soil ain't good around the heavy ground around here

I think that’s the key, soil type and depth.
If done at the right time on some soils it does a great job.

But if the soil isn’t right and not at the stage where it shatters rather than cuts then it’s time wasted.

I think there are too many variables to make that sort of investment, too many things outside your control to ensure farmers get the perfect result.

We did some work here and definitely the tracts broken up grew more grass, but results were short term and it hasn’t been taken out in a few years.

Cattlepen

davidk1394 wrote: »

Their a waste of time and do nothing. Friend bought one and is now trying to sell it again. Does nothing and nearly causes more harm than good

Maybe yer pal didn’t use it right. I bought one 3 years ago . Now it the spaldings version. Best thing that came into the place in a long time. I had a very big field that I divided with a good sheepwire fence. Same field each side of the fence since Christ was a boy but I used the pan buster on one side of fence. The different in the spring was unbelievable. Grass was way longer and way greener than the other side of fence. The mineral pan is there all over the country and heavier machinery has made it worse. I would recommend pan busting to everyone with ground that suits. I intend getting through the whole place. Don’t attempt to do it before mid August as all ground will be too soft. It just heals over and the fissure you make is no good

FarmerDougal

There’s no doubt it has an effect if used in proper conditions. Organic nitrogen is released which causes more/greener grass usually in lines where ground was disturbed. Depending on operator, it can have a drainage effect for a while. Have used the erth subsoiler and cant fault it as a machine.

But as far as your question of buying one, I would steer clear and spend 8/10k on something you can put more hours on during the year. Subsoiling is very weather dependent.

Say my name

Apologies Reggie, I'm highjacking your thread but in the scheme of things it should be a positive thing.

Yosemitesam or anyone else that's able to answer this.
Tilling and ploughing and cultivation is generally seen as responsible for releasing carbon from the soil into carbon dioxide and then into the atmosphere.

Question is highly aerobic soil is seen as being the optimum in sequestering carbon into the soil. The type of soils where you can push a ploughing match stick down to the full by hand.
Anaerobic soils (peat) have their own thing going but this question is about aerobic soils.

Is it not the fact that the land is being tilled that releases carbon into the atmosphere but the fact that it's sunlight hitting the naked soil that releases the carbon into the atmosphere?

Donald Trump

Reggie. wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on this machine? Thinking of getting on for the business but not sure if there is a need from farmers? Would it be a foolish investment?

Anyone any experience of its work?

https://youtu.be/vepx5hVO8NQ

I don't think the legs on that are deep enough to be classified as a "panbuster". Also doesn't look particularly heavy duty.



I'd classify it as an aerator maybe

Waffletraktor

Donald Trump wrote: »

I don't think the legs on that are deep enough to be classified as a "panbuster". Also doesn't look particularly heavy duty.



I'd classify it as an aerator maybe

I guess you class a D11 as a pan buster then?

Tip of the points are in a good 8+'' where you shouldnt really get much worse compaction on a stock grazing field. It's only a 4 leg machine so it doesn't need to be built for something that has no give. The legs are desinged to trip or fail to prevent the surface 'boiling over' if it hits a very hard patch or stone as you'd never get it level without some recreational cultivation.

Markcheese

Say my name wrote: »

Apologies Reggie, I'm highjacking your thread but in the scheme of things it should be a positive thing.

Yosemitesam or anyone else that's able to answer this.
Tilling and ploughing and cultivation is generally seen as responsible for releasing carbon from the soil into carbon dioxide and then into the atmosphere.

Question is highly aerobic soil is seen as being the optimum in sequestering carbon into the soil. The type of soils where you can push a ploughing match stick down to the full by hand.
Anaerobic soils (peat) have their own thing going but this question is about aerobic soils.

Is it not the fact that the land is being tilled that releases carbon into the atmosphere but the fact that it's sunlight hitting the naked soil that releases the carbon into the atmosphere?

Would it be the turning over, and then tilling of the soil that frees the previously sequestered co2, and the fact that there's no top cover of plant life to lock it down.. Or is it the adding of nitrogen to the humus content that releases the Co2,
It'd be interesting to see what effects temperature at cultivation has on release....

Waffletraktor

Markcheese wrote: »

Would it be the turning over, and then tilling of the soil that frees the previously sequestered co2, and the fact that there's no top cover of plant life to lock it down.. Or is it the adding of nitrogen to the humus content that releases the Co2,
It'd be interesting to see what effects temperature at cultivation has on release....

It would be the exposure of new material to oxygen and microbes that breaks it down to it's constituents more than anything.

Say my name

Markcheese wrote: »

Would it be the turning over, and then tilling of the soil that frees the previously sequestered co2, and the fact that there's no top cover of plant life to lock it down.. Or is it the adding of nitrogen to the humus content that releases the Co2,
It'd be interesting to see what effects temperature at cultivation has on release....

If it was as simple as the sunlight hitting the soil carbon it would make it easier to understand for everyone.
It's seemingly sunlight that is needed to convert soil carbon run off in waterways and it's sunlight that is needed to convert soil carbon in the tundra areas to co2.
So I'd say it's the biggest antagonist needed to release carbon from soils.
"Photochemical oxidation of soil organic matter by sunlight" I think they call it.

All the big carbon farming farmers enthuse how a cover needs to kept on soil the whole time to build up carbon whether that be from plants or mulch.
It would explain and simplify a lot.

blackbox

Say my name wrote: »

All the big carbon farming farmers enthuse how a cover needs to kept on soil the whole time to build up carbon whether that be from plants or mulch.
It would explain and simplify a lot.

What are big carbon farming farmers?

Say my name

blackbox wrote: »

What are big carbon farming farmers?

Gabe Brown.
Dwayne Beck.
Kofi Boa.
Neil Dennis.
Felicia Echeverria.

Closer to home Cooney, Furlong farms.
Could even be your next door neighbour.

Nobbies

Reggie. wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on this machine? Thinking of getting on for the business but not sure if there is a need from farmers? Would it be a foolish investment?

Anyone any experience of its work?

https://youtu.be/vepx5hVO8NQ

had a good bit of it done 8 to 10 years ago here on heavy ground. I thought it was excellent for improving grass growth almost immediately and for a number of years later. as for improving drainage?
I'd like to think that it did help at least abit.but the grass growth was the more obvious result.

Waffletraktor

Say my name wrote: »

blackbox wrote: »

What are big carbon farming farmers?

Closer to home Cooney, Furlong farms.

Cover crops don't forgive the 27ton tractor and maxi til tillage system with a drill which is a cultivator which by chance has a seed box on top. The 12m carrier gets a passing grade.

farisfat

Dose anyone have any experience of swivel leg subsoiler.
Would they bring up much stone.