Accident - claim from own insurance or other driver?

SusanC10

Asking on behalf of my sister who is not on Boards. Bit long-winded so apologies in advance.

My sister was involved in an accident over the Christmas break. She was driving on a Main Road when a car driven by an elderly woman came out from a side road without stopping. My sister tried to avoid the other car but had no time and hit the other car.
Both cars will be written off. Gardai called and ambulance etc. Luckily my sister has no injuries at all.

My sister reported the accident to her own Insurance Company and then started a claim on the other Driver's policy as the other Driver is at fault. It is the same insurance company. The other Driver did not notify the Insurance company at all and when contacted by them has simply said that she has no recollection of the accident.

My sister made a statement at the garda station a couple of days later.

My sister is now without a car and cannot afford to buy a new one without the money from the Insurance. The Insurance Company are saying that she should make a claim on her own insurance policy and then they will claim back from other driver. But she will have to pay €300 to do that. And she will have an open claim.

Her renewal date is in February so the Insurance Company are saying that she cannot renew her policy as the car is written off.

What is the best thing to do here ?

Garibaldi?

Would there be any witnesses?

SusanC10

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Would there be any witnesses?

There was a guy driving behind my sister. The Gardai have his contact details and have told her that they will invite him to make a statement.

Rackard

Other person is at fault so claim off their insurance.
Sounds like the Gardai and witness need to get involved though to make the other woman "remember".

SusanC10

I was involved in a similar accident several years ago except that I was the driver coming from the side road. But there was one difference. The other driver on the main road was indicating that he was returning left but he didn't turn and I pulled out in front of him and he hit me.
Same Insurance company as each other. The other car was written off. No injuries.
But in this case the Insurance Company told me within a week that they were attributing liability to me as I pulled out from a side road. End of. Everything was sorted out within a few weeks.

Why is my sister's situation different ?

Garibaldi?

I think the insurance companies have an obligation to liaise on this matter. The lady may be genuinely suffering from memory loss, but she clearly was in this collision. Photos of the remains of the vehicles should provide evidence as to who was at fault, even in the absence of a human witness. The lady's memory loss would raise questions about her cognitive abilities regarding driving.

Seth Brundle

She should claim off the other parties insurance. Whilst it should be a clear cut claim, she may be advised to get a solicitor behind her.
Personally I wouldn't have your sister claim off her own insurance as she will need to pay the excess and it also means she has an open claim on her policy which could affect her when renewing (unless it is resolved beforehand).

SusanC10

She has already opened a claim against the other Driver so I will tell her to keep going with that.

But what about her renewal of her own Insurance if this is not resolved by next month ? What are her options if she does not have another car before then ?

Eggs For Dinner

Even though the 3rd party is with the same insurer, they are entitled to have their side of the story heard before her insurer concedes liability. However, this cannot go on indefinitely and from Christmas until now is too long. The only thing that will unblock this is the Garda report or witness statement. If you can wait for these, fine. If you need the car now, I would suggest claiming under your own insurance as suggested. You will be refunded the €300 excess if successful

BTW, If you claim under your own policy and recovery from the 3rd party is on-going, it is not an 'Open Claim'. It is technically 'settled' and can be disclosed as such. Success with the recovery changes the status as 'closed, settled against 3rd party'

Seth Brundle

If her car is written off then she needs another one.
Does she pay for it now or wait until she is successful in her claim and receives money to get something else? That's her call.
She should also bear in mind that she will receive the current pre-crash market value of her car. I'm not sure what her car is worth but it would be advisable to look on the likes of carzone.ie to find "expensive" versions of her car for comparison. Print off those adverts.
What has she claimed for or has she just informed them that she will make a claim?

Rackard

SusanC10 wrote: »

She has already opened a claim against the other Driver so I will tell her to keep going with that.

But what about her renewal of her own Insurance if this is not resolved by next month ? What are her options if she does not have another car before then ?

Well if it's not resolved by then, as you say she can't get a car. Therefore she won't have to worry about Insurance renewal

CrankyHaus

Honestly in this situation I'd lease a car, or buy a new one of similar value to what I had before, and continue to seek full recourse from the other driver's policy. Insurance motor accident investigations rarely take less than 2 weeks and can often take a good bit longer, particularly if the other driver is giving them the run around and especially if the Insurer needs to wait on the Garda Abstract, the Garda investigation file containing your statement and any other information. Both circumstances seem to apply here. On the other hand a Motor Assessor's inspection of both vehicles would confirm damage consistent with your sister's account within a day.

I'd keep pursuing the other driver's Insurer by calling and emailing daily and pointing out the additional loss arising from their delay.

It's a sad truth that if the claim is restricted to material damage only there is a good risk of your sister coming out below where she started and of her getting F-ed around by the Insurance company.

SusanC10

Thankfully, she does not need the Car for work as she uses Public Transport for that. But she does need it otherwise for errands, hobbies etc. She does not have the money to replace the car without the Insurance money.

She has been told that if she claims against her own Insurance that she will have an open claim until the money is recouped from the other Driver's policy.
She has also been told that she cannot renew her Insurance once her own car has been deemed a write-off.

So, what happens if this is not resolved by her renewal in mid-February ? How will this affect her obtaining Insurance once she is in a position to buy another car?

Seth Brundle

SusanC10 wrote: »

She has also been told that she cannot renew her Insurance once her own car has been deemed a write-off.

In fairness, if she doesn't have a car to insure then she won't need insurance!

SusanC10 wrote: »

So, what happens if this is not resolved by her renewal in mid-February ? How will this affect her obtaining Insurance once she is in a position to buy another car?

Nothing as long as she takes out insurance in the next year (IIRC) she will then keep her no claims bonus (which she won't lose because she didn't claim off her insurance).

SusanC10

Seth Brundle wrote: »

In fairness, if she doesn't have a car to insure then she won't need insurance!


Nothing as long as she takes out insurance in the next year (IIRC) she will then keep her no claims bonus (which she won't lose because she didn't claim off her insurance).

Thanks for that. The Insurance Company were making it sound like it would affect her going forward if she didn't renew and then looked for Insurance a few months later. They made it sound like having a gap in her Insurance would cause a problem.

SusanC10

Thanks for all the replies. My sister is very upset by the accident in general and confused by what the Insurance Company are saying. It's not helping that her experience is very different to mine.

i71jskz5xu42pb

SusanC10 wrote: »

Thanks for that. The Insurance Company were making it sound like it would affect her going forward if she didn't renew and then looked for Insurance a few months later. They made it sound like having a gap in her Insurance would cause a problem.

https://www.chill.ie/blog/no-claims-bonus-explained/

Can you keep my no claims bonus if I don't own insurance for a period of time?
If you move abroad or sell your car and don't have insurance in your own name for a period of time, some insurers may not honour your no claims bonus when you re-apply for cover if this period exceeds a certain amount of time, such as 2 years. Check with your insurance provider to see where you stand on this matter.

Either way I'd ask the insurace company to be specific - are they talking about no cliams bonus or something else.

Rackard

Check with the insurance too about a rental car as sometimes they can provide one if the person not accountable is need of transport. It will be paid for by the other person's insurance.

SusanC10

Antonio Breezy Wafer wrote: »

https://www.chill.ie/blog/no-claims-bonus-explained/



Either way I'd ask the insurace company to be specific - are they talking about no cliams bonus or something else.

Will tell her to ask for Email re NCB.

SusanC10

Rackard wrote: »

Check with the insurance too about a rental car as sometimes they can provide one if the person not accountable is need of transport. It will be paid for by the other person's insurance.

They have already said No to this until they decide on Liability.

Eggs For Dinner

2 things. If another party is liable, you are entitled to reasonable car hire. This cannot continue indefinitely while liability is disputed (it can in the UK). You will be hard pushed to get more than 2 weeks, especially when it can be shown that you had a remedy available by having your vehicle repaired/replaced under your own policy. You choosing not to take this route does not give you an additional benefit

Secondly, if your insurer has repaired/replaced your vehicle and are seeking recovery from the 3rd party, it is not an open claim on your record providing a counter claim has not been lodged against you

SusanC10

My sister's situation remains unresolved. The Insurance Company is refusing to make a call on liability. There is still no Garda Report. Her own Insurance has been suspended as she does not have a car to insure.

Where can she go from here ?

Seth Brundle

Has a road traffic engineer assessed the scene as it would presumably be them who decides on liability?

SusanC10

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Has a road traffic engineer assessed the scene as it would presumably be them who decides on liability?

I don't know. The Insurance Company sent someone to inspect both Cars which were written off.

kennethsmyth

I would now go to a solicitor and look to recover their costs against the insurance company for being obstructive and also put in a complaint to the insurance ombudman for good measure.

Seth Brundle

SusanC10 wrote: »

I don't know. The Insurance Company sent someone to inspect both Cars which were written off.

They are mechanics (or similar) not road engineers.
You need someone to say how your sis had priority on the road which has a speed limit of Xkmh. The car pulled out giving your sis Y time to evade an impact.
The other car should have yielded.
And so on.

Has your sis got a solicitor working on this for her?

Seth Brundle

kennethsmyth wrote: »

put in a complaint to the insurance ombudman for good measure.

Complaint for what?


(and we don't have an insurance ombudsman but have the Financial Services and Pension Ombudsman)

punisher5112

Wow that's really bad.

She needs to claim off her own or get a solicitor.

I would go solicitor route as I've had to previous as insurance company were unreal and wouldn't even get back.

db

The problem here is that the same insurance company covered both drivers. They are happy to drag this out as long as possible. The bast thing your sister can do in this situation is get a solicitor involved to move it along. When I needed to do this in the past the solicitor included their own fees in the overall claim so I didn't have to pay them directly.

SusanC10

Just had lunch now with my sister. She rang Insurance Company yesterday. They said that they are waiting on the Garda Report or an admission of liability. They said that the Broker of the elderly lady who was driving the other car says that she cannot remember the accident. No further detail provided by the Broker. Just one sentence. They confirmed that they have not queried this at all.
They have also told my sister that if the Garda Report only contains my sister's Statement and the Statement of the other driver saying no recollection that nothing can be done and that they will not pay out in that case.

My sister doesn't have a lot of money. Are there good Solicitors who would take this on and wait for payment ?

L1011

If the other vehicle has been inspected, determined as written and the driver is claiming to have no recollection of the incident, would the insurer not want to get her sent for medical examination with the aim of getting her off the road as she's clearly mentally incapable?

SusanC10

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

If you need the car now, I would suggest claiming under your own insurance as suggested. You will be refunded the €300 excess if successful

BTW, If you claim under your own policy and recovery from the 3rd party is on-going, it is not an 'Open Claim'. It is technically 'settled' and can be disclosed as such. Success with the recovery changes the status as 'closed, settled against 3rd party'

My sister rang her own Broker to enquire about claiming from her own Policy and then the Insurance Company would recover. She was told that it would be an "Open Claim" as long as the recovery process was ongoing. Also, as it is the same Insurance Company they could decide not to pursue recovery and then my sister would have a Claim on her own Policy going forward
and also if they fail to recover that she would have a Claim on her own Policy. She would need to pay €300 in any event.

punisher5112

L1011 wrote: »

If the other vehicle has been inspected, determined as written and the driver is claiming to have no recollection of the incident, would the insurer not want to get her sent for medical examination with the aim of getting her off the road as she's clearly mentally incapable?

I was in a crash where the other driver ran a red and t-boned me.
She let it slip to one of the Gardai she didn't remember but changed this after.

He attended court and his statement was what helped it through. It did take 3 years though.

It should have never went that far and I firmly believe as I was a lot younger they sides with her.

SusanC10

L1011 wrote: »

If the other vehicle has been inspected, determined as written and the driver is claiming to have no recollection of the incident, would the insurer not want to get her sent for medical examination with the aim of getting her off the road as she's clearly mentally incapable?

The Insurance Company have not made any queries at all since and seem to have accepted this single sentence reply in an Email from the Broker.