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Best of all time

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  • 23-01-2019 2:07pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭


    I know it’s a marketing tool but do you think ‘the best of all time’ gets banded around a bit too much by the UFC
    Aldo – unbeaten in 10yrs, considered the greatest then McGregor beats him in 13 seconds. Aldo no longer considered the best ever.
    Hard to call somebody the best ever when they have just got beat but over a career Aldo’s records of 10 yrs unbeaten is more impressive than the handful of wins McGregor as had

    Cyborg V Nunes
    Cyborg the best ever female fighter then gets mauled by Nunes so is no longer considered the greatest.

    I guess these two are poor examples as both fights were over so quick but do think if both matches were done 10 times each the results would favor both Aldo & cyborg

    I just think the greatest ever handle is easily exchanged where it shouldn’t be


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,490 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    It's the same in every sport


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭finglashoop


    Aldo was the best at his weight for a time but factor in age, skills diminishing , while a new crop came along and have evolved past him. That doesn't dismiss his career record but it puts in doubt the best ever tag. Remember that max beat him twice.

    Same for Cyborg, she could ko anyone, until she couldnt and nunes smashed her. 9 out of 10 id take nunes.

    To be the man you have to beat the man as ric flair said. If aldo was best ever and mcregor
    Beats him in one exchange, is he still he still best ever?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭dashoonage


    Artem

    /thread

    maybe Pendred if we need to discuss it a little.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭xtal191


    dashoonage wrote: »
    Artem

    /thread

    maybe Pendred if we need to discuss it a little.

    Oh Artem vs Pendred the fight I never knew I wanted to see


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭dashoonage


    xtal191 wrote: »
    Oh Artem vs Pendred the fight I never knew I wanted to see

    at 170lbs.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,170 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    This is a massive peeve of mine. I have no dea why everyone has to be "The Greatest of all Time".

    There are two reasons this is so prevalent:

    1) Too many titles & interim titles. There are so many people claiming to be the best and claiming to be the champ etc that the lustre of holding the belt has seriously diminished.

    2) Joe Rogan. He just loves it!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    We all know it's Fedor anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭gzoladz


    What the GOAT analysy is missing is the time dimension...all fighters performance diminishes with time, so the comparison should be for example fighter A 2012 to 2016 or fighter B 2007 to 2010.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭KJ


    Max Holloway was called the best ever by Joe Rogan after his last fight. Ridiculous statement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭dulux99


    I do think skill levels are increasing exponentially these days. You'd forget sometimes how new this sport is. With the (somewhat) level playing field of drug testing the way it is now, I think pretty much the only champion from 10 years ago who'd beat today's champion is GSP.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭gerrybbadd


    The sport is so young really, its very hard to call. Like, years ago, someone like a Chuck Liddell might have been in with a shout. But as someone has already said, its like with each new crop of competitiors coming through, their skills are more rounded and developed.

    I don't think a lot of the early UFC guys, who were considered cream of the crop, would hang too well in today's sport.

    Exception of GSP as already mentioned


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    Agreed - Matt Hughes was very effective but put up against some of the more high level strikers around today I think he would be shown up.

    It is very frustrating that a fighter is the best ever and with one loss they lose that title.

    Phil Taylor in the darts is considered the best ever - even when he loses a few matches he is still heralds as the best.

    I guess it's more just the marketing machine behind the UFC pushing the next up and comer as potentially the GOAT.
    I think the GOAT's are allowed a couple of defeats on their record without losing the title.

    If Cyborg comes back and betters nunes she will immediately be crowded the best ever again (and possibly rightly so)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭dulux99


    Agreed - Matt Hughes was very effective but put up against some of the more high level strikers around today I think he would be shown up.

    It is very frustrating that a fighter is the best ever and with one loss they lose that title.

    Phil Taylor in the darts is considered the best ever - even when he loses a few matches he is still heralds as the best.

    o)

    The way I look at that, is would Phil Taylor at his absolute best beat MVG at his absolute best? Im no darting expert but it'd at least be very very close.

    I don't think the same can be said for the previous era of UFC champions vs the current, especially with the stringent drug testing. Silva was amazing in his day but he was probably juiced to the tits the whole time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭MartyMcFly84


    Its difficult in a sport like MMA which is relatively new.

    Many of the best fighters from 10 years ago, would struggle in the top 15 today.

    Not only has the sport and techniques evolved but so have the athletes taking part. Many more naturally gifted athletes are involved in MMA and starting to train at a much younger age.

    "Greatest of all time"It's a very subjective statement , you can only really compare fighters to other fighters during the same time period.

    The likes of Boxing, Muay Thai is a little more directly comparable as they are older sports, but the modern training techniques and athletes involved would have changed also but not to the same degree as MMA which is night and day when you compare like of Tank Abbot and Jon Jones.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭dulux99


    Joe Rogan definitely throws around the "GOAT" phrase very liberally. Does peak Jose Aldo beat peak Holloway? I think he might.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭turdball


    Aldo is like Rousey, just can't cut it with the new crop of stars.

    McGregor might be the best ever in the 145 pound division.

    As a lightweight wouldn't be in the top 20 in that division


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    turdball wrote: »
    As a lightweight wouldn't be in the top 20 in that division

    Bulls**t


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭turdball


    derfderf wrote: »
    Bulls**t

    I'm talking about all time. No where near.

    Got embarrassed by Khabib.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    turdball wrote: »
    I'm talking about all time. No where near.

    Got embarrassed by Khabib.

    Gets beaten in RD4 by one of the best wrestlers the UFC has ever seen.

    No longer in top #20.

    OK.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭Scotty #


    Most wins? Fewest loses? Win:Loss ratio? Most title defences? Ranking of opponent? There's so many factors to take into account. GSP is regarded as #1 on most lists, Anderson Silva on others. It's impossible to give a definitive answer. At the end of the day, people will select their favourite.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Gonad


    Suprised not one mention of Jon Jones

    But he is a known cheater so suppose he is out of the equation . Looking back I think all those ufc champions were on steroids.

    Aldo was like a machine until USADA and then all of a sudden looked human.

    Jon Jones came back against OSP in his first first during USADA and he looked terrible .

    I believe AKA fighters are juicing still and even their own coach Javier Mendes came out and said that USADA should just go away as fighters are still juicing and that they can get the stuff out of their systems over night .

    Wouldn’t be surprised if Cormier was on something he comes across about strange when slagging Jon Jones and says things like “I have never been popped Jon” rather than saying he never took steroids .

    If you don’t care about steroids the best would be Jones Jones , Silva , Fedor ect

    If it was a completely clean sport it would be a completely different list of fighters


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    turdball wrote: »
    I'm talking about all time. No where near.

    Got embarrassed by Khabib.

    Name 10 outside Khabib


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,200 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    derfderf wrote: »
    Name 10 outside Khabib
    Why stop at 10? He reckons there's 20 :pac:


    FWIW there have been 10 LW champions up to and including Khabib.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,017 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Its the same as every sport. Sky Sports, UFC they all hype up their products to dizzy heights. Every UFC event is the biggest fight in history, Joe Rogan especially uses this phrase way too much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    turdball wrote: »
    Aldo is like Rousey, just can't cut it with the new crop of stars.


    lol. Should have held off a few weeks before coming to that conclusion


    GOAT talk is just an excuse to argue about favorite fighters. It's in every sport though. "Messi is good, but he's not a patch on Jimmy Two Toes who played centre forward for United in ninteen-dikity-two. He had to hold down a day job as a bin man and smoked 60 a day. Got paid a bag of coal a week"


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,170 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    xckjoo wrote: »
    lol. Should have held off a few weeks before coming to that conclusion

    This is almost the other side of the coin to the "The Best Ever" thing.

    As soon as someone drops a fight, he's passed it!

    Much like there not being a need for everyone to be "The Best Ever" when they're champ, there's also no need for anyone to be passed it. Sometimes it just happens that a fighter surpasses you like Holloway did Aldo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,200 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    "xckjoo wrote: »

    GOAT talk is just an excuse to argue about favorite fighters. It's in every sport though. "Messi is good, but he's not a patch on Jimmy Two Toes who played centre forward for United in ninteen-dikity-two. He had to hold down a day job as a bin man and smoked 60 a day. Got paid a bag of coal a week"
    The difference is the skillset is improving in MMA at such an obvious rate, that nobody suggests that. (It's improving in soccer too, but less obviously).
    Royce demolished everyone in early UFCs. But he would struggle against top 10 now, let alone championship tier.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    Mellor wrote: »
    The difference is the skillset is improving in MMA at such an obvious rate, that nobody suggests that. (It's improving in soccer too, but less obviously).
    Royce demolished everyone in early UFCs. But he would struggle against top 10 now, let alone championship tier.

    Prime Silva or GSP wouldn't look out of place at the top of their divisions these days, but I think most other Champions comfortably maul the the early day champions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    Cormier with abs at 185 = Goat


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Fall_Guy


    Much as it pains me to say it, I just can't see past Jon Jones in the GOAT discussion, I don't think his body of work can be equalled by any of the other contenders to the title at this point.


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