Small scale PV (DIY)

phester28

I have a metal shed that points in the right direction for sun. I can only fit 2 panels on this roof due to a telegraph pole that cast a shadow from 11am on so I am using this shadow as my limit of usable roof space.


so 2 1 x 1.67m panels around 300w each mounted on unistrut and fixed to the shed roof is my plan.



The house has just got a new roof and its slate but even at that its the small area that faces the sun so might only get 3 panels up there in the future and its around 10 meters from the shed. (hopefully I'm wrong and can get the grant for say another 5 panels if it all works out as a hobby first)



most inverters I looked at will not start up with only 2 panels. ( I would want a grid tie with 2 strings so that I can run my future location independently) So in total we are looking at a 2 string sub 2KW inverter



Will a metal shed that gets damp and cold be an issue for the inverter? most are supposed to be IP65 rated but cant help but think that it would shorten the life of it.

unkel

Inverter even outside is no problem provided it has IP65 rating, but I would avoid having it in full sun or exposed to driving rain

I'd say it is too much to expect an inverter to work for you for just 2 panels, that will also work once you add another string of 3 panels though, but I could be wrong here.

A Solis Mini 1500 can take 50-500V intake, so just 2 panels would make it work. It takes only one string though. If the orientation of the panels on your house is the same as the orientation of the panels on your shed, you can connect all of them up in series in the one string, making this inverter suitable for starting with just 2 panels and then extending.

If you are thinking of going the subsidy / grant route, get a few quotes in. If it was me, and I was to start with a 2 panel system, I would go DIY to keep the costs to a minimum.

phester28

just looking at various options. I am confused that 300W + panels are around 170-200 euro but a 3kw package on some of the uk sites cost 5.5k.



so 9 panels at retail 180 each and say 400 euro for the inverter (OK lets say 1k to allow for a higher price branding) Still brings that total to half the 5.5k

The mounting system and wire must only be a few hundred. Say 500 euro at a total guess. Are shops just riding profit in packages.

Sites checked were: https://24solar.uk/en/solar-cell-packages/3-kwp/
https://www.cclcomponents.com/solar-products/grid-tied-inverters/single-phase-grid-tied-solar-inverters

So far I have just honed in on mono panels 60 cells with 300w min power in a 1.67 x 1 meter size. All panels seem to offer 25 years guarantee and loading figures look the same. A Solis 4g inverter with as many 300w panels seems to be the way to go. Quoted parasitic load of inverters now appears to be better with <1w night time being quoted.

Gumbo

phester28 wrote: »

just looking at various options. I am confused that 300W + panels are around 170-200 euro but a 3kw package on some of the uk sites cost 5.5k.



so 9 panels at retail 180 each and say 400 euro for the inverter (OK lets say 1k to allow for a higher price branding) Still brings that total to half the 5.5k

The mounting system and wire must only be a few hundred. Say 500 euro at a total guess. Are shops just riding profit in packages.

Sites checked were: https://24solar.uk/en/solar-cell-packages/3-kwp/
https://www.cclcomponents.com/solar-products/grid-tied-inverters/single-phase-grid-tied-solar-inverters

So far I have just honed in on mono panels 60 cells with 300w min power in a 1.67 x 1 meter size. All panels seem to offer 25 years guarantee and loading figures look the same. A Solis 4g inverter with as many 300w panels seems to be the way to go. Quoted parasitic load of inverters now appears to be better with <1w night time being quoted.

What about labour and scaffolding to get onto the roof 3 stories up?
warranty and aftersales.

Im sure we can all build a DIY system for cheaper, but in business, there's overheads.

phester28

This is the purchase price of the kit not the kit fitted. If you go back to what I said I mentioned the shop and retail price. Not Fitted by contractors etc

unkel

phester28 wrote: »

just looking at various options. I am confused that 300W + panels are around 170-200 euro but a 3kw package on some of the uk sites cost 5.5k.



so 9 panels at retail 180 each and say 400 euro for the inverter (OK lets say 1k to allow for a higher price branding) Still brings that total to half the 5.5k

The mounting system and wire must only be a few hundred. Say 500 euro at a total guess. Are shops just riding profit in packages.

Sites checked were: https://24solar.uk/en/solar-cell-packages/3-kwp/
https://www.cclcomponents.com/solar-products/grid-tied-inverters/single-phase-grid-tied-solar-inverters

Looks like you just picked very expensive shops. Where you got the prices for the panels and the inverter, do those shops / sites not do packages?

phester28

Found an irish supplier that has better kit prices. https://solartricity.ie

Is there any good reason for not overspecing your inverter. I expect that I would allow at least another 2 panels worth of headroom on DC input.

Does anyone have a good grasp of the regulations. I would have thought an AC isolator switch and DC isolator switch at the inverter location would suffice. The kits on the irish site have some fancy roof mounted AC sense DC disconnect. Very safe but also a point of failure IMO?

Any thoughts in general

unkel

You have found yourself the best supplier in this country. Not only have they got decent prices, but they're also friendly and helpful and will assist you in picking parts to put together your kit for your particular circumstances.

quentingargan

phester28 wrote: »

Found an irish supplier that has better kit prices. https://solartricity.ie

Is there any good reason for not overspecing your inverter. I expect that I would allow at least another 2 panels worth of headroom on DC input.

Does anyone have a good grasp of the regulations. I would have thought an AC isolator switch and DC isolator switch at the inverter location would suffice. The kits on the irish site have some fancy roof mounted AC sense DC disconnect. Very safe but also a point of failure IMO?

Any thoughts in general

The firefighter safety switch disconnects the DC from the panel when firefighters switch off the grid. It is mandatory under the grant, but not often used on DIY installs.

Yes - it is another thing that can go wrong. Indeed in Australia, according to these folks, (and others) ironically there was an increase in solar related fires as a result of these switches. In some other regions, if you put the inverter in the loft, they are not required and this is widely adopted on new house-builds in Ireland.

rolion

Let me ask you why do you want to for DIY route !?
Is going to test your patience and lots of nerves /arguments with wife.
Not saving big money but gives you the feeling of something that you did and you can understand the system.

You need to manage the supplier equipment delivery, roof man days working/sick/not showing up and the electricians small job "only one hour but 2 hours driving".

In relation to components, based on my experience, there are good equipment, premium equipment and suppliers equipment.
If you go with premium, such as LG panels, you get the best on the market.
If you go with suppliers equipment, you get whatever they have in stock and make the most margins on them, selling to you as being the best.

Also, please do not forget the shipping cost as at some break point, you can lose more than you bargained.

Have fun...

phester28

The reason for looking at diy up to now is just to play with 2 panels on my metal shed roof. I am looking at my narrow oddly shaped roof and my tile counting and measuring means that I can only get another 2 panels maybe 3 if am not measuring correctly, and then the run back to the shed could be 10 meters.

So its either a professional install if i can fit enough panels on site or just a play thing to take the base load of the house. At present solar city is my preferred supplier

rolion

I'm sure you will have a great fun and bigger challenges in deciding what's best for you.

I just want to say that I did same mistake as you...got 2 panels and played with them. After getting all the figures, i wasn't able to use them in the new array as the ordered ones were different types … and … with only 2 panels, the inverter takes a minimum voltage just to start-up and warm the electronics inside.

Get as much information you can...and good luck.

phester28

Hi rolion,

Can you expand on the panels were mismatched so that I can learn from it. I would look for 300w 60 cell mono panels.

If I understand the panel rating correctly then most panels from the same category, cell number and wattage and tech will have almost identical voltage and current ratings.

rolion

phester28 wrote: »

Hi rolion,

Can you expand on the panels were mismatched so that I can learn from it. I would look for 300w 60 cell mono panels.

If I understand the panel rating correctly then most panels from the same category, cell number and wattage and tech will have almost identical voltage and current ratings.

Well...good question and i hope you avoid the mistake.
I bought two "no-name" 250W panels,hoping to play on angles,output,position and so on.
Didnt know at the time about minimum power-up of the inverter,actually knew zero. You can't put in series different panels as that will break the maths.

Then,after 12 months,when i comitted to buy,i went for LGs 300 / 330W,total different type of panels in relation to electrical parameters.
Those two panels todays are covering kitchen roof and powers fans and lights in greenhouse...

In your case,by the time you decide to move up or upgrade,those 2 (two) panels might not be available to purchase.

phester28

maths wise from what I can find out from here https://solarpanelsvenue.com/mixing-solar-panels/ as long as the voltage and isc of the panel is the same it will have no effect. I assume batch or manufacturer to manufacturer there will be small differences and so in series it will only be as good as your weakest panel.

I'm not sure if heating will have an effect with a mismatch?

always a good quote:
"The performance of the solar array is as strong as the performance of the weakest element. "

rolion

phester28 wrote: »

maths wise from what I can find out from here https://solarpanelsvenue.com/mixing-solar-panels/ as long as the voltage and isc of the panel is the same it will have no effect. I assume batch or manufacturer to manufacturer there will be small differences and so in series it will only be as good as your weakest panel.

I'm not sure if heating will have an effect with a mismatch?

always a good quote:
"The performance of the solar array is as strong as the performance of the weakest element. "

When i received my LGs,each had a paper sheet with a barcode associated to each panel.
On that sheet,was individual tests, panel by panel for all the electrical parameters. Not sure if they tried to match identical panels for my delivery or just standard Quality Control.

Heating ... Where ? We have one of the best climate for PVs...

The quote makes sense everywhere...

phester28

I was being purely speculative. Might a panel mismatch be similar to a partial shade on a panel. From what I've read a partial shade on any panel will cause localized heating of said cell and will cause premature death of the panel. I think diode bypass per sub string (within a panel) was a way to mitigate this but I've no idea what is implemented on various panels.

rolion

phester28 wrote: »

I was being purely speculative. Might a panel mismatch be similar to a partial shade on a panel. From what I've read a partial shade on any panel will cause localized heating of said cell and will cause premature death of the panel. I think diode bypass per sub string (within a panel) was a way to mitigate this but I've no idea what is implemented on various panels.

For whole panel, i recommend this one H E R E


Optimization is one of six functional covers that pairs with an integrated modular junction box base (TS4-O), with a retrofit/add-on base (TS4-R-O), or a Duo retrofit/add-on base (TS4-R-O-Duo). Design using unequal string lengths and mixed orientations. Install into shaded areas with a reduced setback ratio. Optimize only where needed with selective deployment.

Shade and mismatch tolerance
Maximized roof usage

Enhanced energy yield
Plus all the benefits of Safety and Monitoring

Greater design flexibility

phester28

I have read up on some optimizers, think I found a uk supplier for a panel module at a price point of 50 euro per unit. Not sure how much these units would cost.

From what I've been able to find out if the current and voltages are very close on panels then the losses from a mismatch are small and the mppt will keep the power generation at an optimum level. So from what I've read a panel from various manufactures with the same number of cells and the same size wound in theory produce a very similar VOC and ISC

Anyway I'm getting ahead of myself for someone that has no solar yet

Nedved85

I wonder is is possible to install solar panels on a steel shed (Steeltech type)? I have a 5m x 3m shed with the long side of the shed facing south more or less, would this squeeze in 5 solar panels given that they are usually just under 1m wide?

phester28

yes but if you want say 4 or 5 panels they are typically 1m x 1.67m. They may extend beyond the apex of the shed depending on how long the width x length of the south facing side is.

quentingargan

Bear in mind that the clamps usually require the panels to have a 2cm gap. You could easily get 2 over 2 in landscape format (on their sides) and possibly another one beside them in portrait, but it wouldn't look nice.

On panel sizes, what actually happens is that as panels come off the production line they pass through a light box with 1000w/m2 of light and the production is measured - this is to produce a flash report certifying the output of the product. if the output is 300 to 304 watts, it goes onto the pallet of 300w panels, if it is 295 to 299watts, it goes onto the 295 watt pallet. And so forth. There are small quirks of the production process that make some panels produce more than others, even on the same production line.

One of the claimed benefits of optimisers is that you will get that extra wattage. Also, the panels will degrade at slightly different rates over the years, and the optimisers prevent all of their production falling to the most degraded one. I think the benefit of this is quite small and would only use optimisers to deal with partial shading or mixed orientations.

I would stick to optimisers that are "generic" and will work with any brand of inverter. Too many companies are vulnerable to collapsing in the 25 year life cycle of a panel to go for a system where the inverter and optimiser are matched and proprietary.

Nedved85

Interesting, I think a dual landscape option with one in portrait would work actually. I would not mind the portrait one to be honest at that would be at the back of the garden / not really visible.

Where could I go to figure out how much a 1.5 kWh system would produce over a year based in Cork. I have a pretty low electricity bill at the moment, using around 10kWh per day since I moved into a new build (Heat pump, A rated).

I do have an electric car, but I charge mostly at work (That could change in the future - who know's).

Nedved85

Just found one quentingargan on your site:

https://solartricity.ie/design-your-system-quote/power-production-estimator/

phester28

Been sitting in the wings for quite a while now. But I am wondering if my usage justifies a PV setup (without battery).

My bills say that my total usage over 12 months is around 2200KWh.

at a vat inclusive price of 20cent per kwh that is only 450pa. The rest of the bill is PSO etc so unavoidable.

I wanted to see when or how much i use during solar hours but at present my owl is acting the maggot. I never used it before for logging and it is causing all sorts of issues. I dont even think that at less than 150W you can rely on the data but I digress.

In a few days I will know the KWH I use daily between 8-4pm and so I should be able to size accordingly.

I have east west options on the main roof but this would then need to be done professionally Dual string all pushing up the cost. But I have the possibility of 2 or 3 panels on my flat roof (east or south) extension using a ballast systems (would still tie it to the house wall).

Is 8am to 4pm a reasonable time frame for solar in cork or is it more 10 to 3pm for 50% production.

phester28

Been sitting in the wings for quite a while now. But I am wondering if my usage justifies a PV setup (without battery).

My bills say that my total usage over 12 months is around 2200KWh. (and this tallies with my owl so far at 6kwh per day)

at a vat inclusive price of 20cent per kwh that is only 450pa. The rest of the bill is PSO etc so unavoidable.

I wanted to see when or how much i use during solar hours but at present my owl is acting the maggot. I never used it before for logging and it is causing all sorts of issues. I dont even think that at less than 150W you can rely on the data but I digress.

In a few days I will know the KWH I use daily between 8-4pm and so I should be able to size accordingly.

I have east west options on the main roof but this would then need to be done professionally Dual string all pushing up the cost. But I have the possibility of 2 or 3 panels on my flat roof (east or south) extension using a ballast systems (would still tie it to the house wall).

Is 8am to 4pm a reasonable time frame for solar in cork or is it more 10 to 3pm for 50% production.

rolion

Hi Phester28,

Good questions to challenge your mind...and pocket !

Based on your post,the consumption is very small to justify a PV system,at 6KWh per 24 hours.
i mean,from a RoI point of view AND as you asked,if the PVs produces maxim output at lunch time and you are not in house to switch the appliance(s) to benefit the free energy,that investment is lost.


Let's have few assumptions,that stands to be corrected by other users.
For a lets say 2Kwp panels,that 6 x 330W and a 2.5Kw inverter (as a minimum investment and under your house and space position constraints) and a hot water diverter,that may make some sense in respect with production versus consumption (while you are not home). and, this only in few months over calendar year, lets say april to november,as after than very little production to create and to divert.

My PVs are making random peak power,it does happily the base load of the house and diverts the exces to the hot water storage.


To see a feedback to your timeframe Prod vs Consume query... the ideal curve is as below:




Practical curve is anything like these ones:










So hard to say what the is the best timeframe,even if you stay with the weather forecast in front of you...
I have the owl myself and i found it a bit reliable but im using to confirm or contradict other monitoring / reporting systems. You know that they charge now for the dashboard online access ? May be that is your problem...

My free public advise is use the owl for a while,get your numbers right and then analyse your budget. Cannot say how much it will be but based on your report,a 2Kw installed power should take care of the basic load and possbile divert a good amount to your hot water tank.
Regarding return and financial,i guess we will never get these money back... but we are doing a change in good for our environment.

phester28

My owl is an old one and does not need a portal (web access) its a cm160

looks like 6kwh per day is a good indication of my usage regardless of me being home for the weekend or not.

DeviceID timestamp Watts Cost CO2 DayTotalWatts DayTotalCost DayTotalCO2
1 07/05/2019 07:00 193 0.037828002 0.088780001 851.9317 0.16697872 391.88858
1 07/05/2019 08:00 177 0.034692001 0.081419997 1160.049 0.22736965 533.6225
1 07/05/2019 17:00 209 0.040964004 0.096139997 7451.5645 1.4605014 3427.7197
1 07/05/2019 18:00 209 0.040964004 0.096139997 7762.185 1.521381 3570.6052

looking between 7am and 6pm today I used around 7kwh as the wife was using tumble drier washing machine etc (as of 8pm ive used 8.1KWH)

I am wondering if there is any diy install such as https://www.pluginsolar.co.uk/?product=plug-in-solar-duo-500w-ground-mount-kit-2#tab-certification

I have a SWA in the shed connected to a plug in my house that goes to a sub board. (all done by a sparky).

I bet the ESB regulation is going to be a stumbling block as I could do 3 panels SSE on my flat roof easy but with that size a micro inverter might be a more cost effective approach?

Ive seem some Iboost controllers cheap that could at some point help dump any excess into the immersion.

rolion

phester28 wrote: »

My owl is an old one and does not need a portal (web access) its a cm160

looks like 6kwh per day is a good indication of my usage regardless of me being home for the weekend or not.

DeviceID timestamp Watts Cost CO2 DayTotalWatts DayTotalCost DayTotalCO2
1 07/05/2019 07:00 193 0.037828002 0.088780001 851.9317 0.16697872 391.88858
1 07/05/2019 08:00 177 0.034692001 0.081419997 1160.049 0.22736965 533.6225
1 07/05/2019 17:00 209 0.040964004 0.096139997 7451.5645 1.4605014 3427.7197
1 07/05/2019 18:00 209 0.040964004 0.096139997 7762.185 1.521381 3570.6052

looking between 7am and 6pm today I used around 7kwh as the wife was using tumble drier washing machine etc (as of 8pm ive used 8.1KWH)

I am wondering if there is any diy install such as https://www.pluginsolar.co.uk/?product=plug-in-solar-duo-500w-ground-mount-kit-2#tab-certification

I have a SWA in the shed connected to a plug in my house that goes to a sub board. (all done by a sparky).

I bet the ESB regulation is going to be a stumbling block as I could do 3 panels SSE on my flat roof easy but with that size a micro inverter might be a more cost effective approach?

Ive seem some Iboost controllers cheap that could at some point help dump any excess into the immersion.

For a decent return,without a 1Kw installed power ,that's almost 4 x 330W panels, i will not get a diverter.Not enough juice to keep th ehouse and to divert.
And get a small inverter that can be abused later if you get more panels.
All above,entirely DIY doable...

phester28

I got some prices for inverter only from a company
DC isolator not required – as the only DC is the lead from the panel to the micro-inverter. The micro-inverters have MC4 plugs, see attached.
Our understanding is that a Firefighter Safety Switch should not be required as the micro-inverters have rapid shutdown built in, in case of grid failure/AC disconnect

Part code Description Price ex VAT
BPE-MI-600-EU-IR BPE 2 Port Microinverter €149.50
BPE-MI-1300-EU-IR BPE 4 Port Microinverter €234.00
Has anyone gone the route of micro gen panel mount.

From what I understand that would cut out the need for some of the extra isolators and wiring. The only down side I can find thus far is the monitoring would be extra.

I am seeing the bottom price for a 1Kw flat roof install wired to a socket spur. Ac Isolator is the only requirement that I can find for this type of setup and it would make the number of external components a minimum.

The only extras I can think of are flat roof mounts, panels, maybe mc4 crimp tool, DC cabling, and suitable external AC cable to connect to house through Isolated / fused spur.

Anyone have any thoughts on this approach. These microinverters appear to have the IE- EN certification so that should not be an issue

phester28

Keeping my eye on ebay for an inverter for an east west config Dual MPPT.

So far Al the following have on their respective sites certificates for Ireland,

I probably wont be buying until I get a roofer here for another job and see how much he thinks for mounting rails etc and many panels I can fit (a) with the SEAI 500mm exclusion and (b) breaking the 500mm exclusion on the hip/valley.

Just seeing what these go for on ebay

Goodwe Solar PV Inverter GW3600UK
Growatt 2500MTL
ABB Power-One Aurora Pvi 3.0

Has anyone a bad thing to say about any of the above.

unkel

I got a brand new Solis dual MPPT 3.6kW inverter (with the Irish EN50438 cert) from a UK seller on eBay for €250 including shipping at the start of this year.

phester28

@unkle. I can only hope to find that kind of value. It must have been an "unwanted gift" . I dont see any shop on ebay or anything like that kind of value yet

Im just trying to find out if one inverter is better than another and why. they will all generate A/C and may have different levels of monitoring implemented but I dont know what else to look for.

A quick question. for the turn on voltage of a string. is it the cumulative of VMP or VOC for the initial turn on.

I'm trying to gauge how easy it will be on dull days to reach the on voltage of 90-100V depending on brand. Even though from my limited playing around with small panels any light will give you the 0.5V per cell but will be current limited until more intense light hits the cell.

Also see my aspect at 4.15pm today 26th of May.
East has my flat roof at the back but the vents may limit me to one panel height.

West is the front of my house but the roof has complex geometry. and the side is south facing but again with limited height may not get more than 3 panels.

Until I have a you can fit x east and x west or south is bigger than I think.

I think it will come down to if I do it by the book with a 500mm exclusion from all leading edges through SEAI I may be very limited. Or break the rules a little and see how many I can fit.

unkel

Have you any shadowing at all? If you do, you will be better off with micro inverters

I wouldn't bother with your S roof, won't fit 3 panels. W you might, but probably not if you stick to the 50cm rule. Dunno, hard to guess

E has plenty of space, you could consider the kitchen extension roof too! You could even decide to only go E with two strings, leave the panels on the kitchen extension as flat as possible to get solar all day long (provided there is no shadowing)

phester28 wrote: »

Even though from my limited playing around with small panels any light will give you the 0.5V per cell but will be current limited until more intense light hits the cell.

This is it. You get close to the nominal most of the time

phester28

Just to update . some of the invertiers mentioned earlier (ebay available) just wont cut it for 4 Panel string. The startup voltage is around 120 or 125V for these models. Which 4 panels would just make but the MPPT would be at the min voltage so from what I can read it would be less efficient.


The Solis range has the lowest startup voltage (60 or 90) depending on model but the new cost of a dual mppt is high and no second market for these on ebay at present. I'll aspire to find a deal like unkel on ebay

rolion

phester28 wrote: »

Just to update . some of the invertiers mentioned earlier (ebay available) just wont cut it for 4 Panel string. The startup voltage is around 120 or 125V for these models. Which 4 panels would just make but the MPPT would be at the min voltage so from what I can read it would be less efficient.


The Solis range has the lowest startup voltage (60 or 90) depending on model but the new cost of a dual mppt is high and no second market for these on ebay at present. I'll aspire to find a deal like unkel on ebay

Tbh,I'll challenge respectful unkel to attach a link to Ebay auction with the e250 inverter....

unkel

rolion wrote: »

Tbh,I'll challenge respectful unkel to attach a link to Ebay auction with the e250 inverter....

You doubting Thomas



Brand spanking new in the original sealed and unopened box. It wasn't an auction. It was buy it now. He was looking for GBP250 iirc, but I made him an offer of GBP200 which he accepted (after he first rejected my even lower offer). Shipping was GBP20. Somehow I was stupid enough to pay with PayPal, and it hit my account for EUR255.40. Would have been well under EUR250 with Revolut

Your turn now Rolion. Show us the receipt for your ABB inverter.

phester28

good to know what there are options is you want to upgrade to a battery without having to change your whole setup / inverter

GoodWe GW2500-BP DC https://www.ebay.ie/itm/SPECIAL-OFFER-GoodWe-GW2500-BP-DC-Battery-Controller-inverter-for-PylonTech/323212350869?hash=item4b40f51595

rolion

unkel wrote: »

You doubting Thomas



Brand spanking new in the original sealed and unopened box. It wasn't an auction. It was buy it now. He was looking for GBP250 iirc, but I made him an offer of GBP200 which he accepted (after he first rejected my even lower offer). Shipping was GBP20. Somehow I was stupid enough to pay with PayPal, and it hit my account for EUR255.40. Would have been well under EUR250 with Revolut

Your turn now Rolion. Show us the receipt for your ABB inverter.

Thanks,aapreciated,no offence.

I was trying to make a point: you got a good hating bargain in there, person to person and not from a well established and regular front shop and / or business, with support and warranty. If my ABB was €1k and today i wanna sell it for €250 that doesnt mean that all ABBs will have to be bought at the same price.That cannot be generalised across the market.

I bought my ABB maybe over 4 years ago,along with the LG panels,don't have the paper work,i will try find it somewhere in emails (is not so easy as a link to ebay). I think it was in region of €1,000 with 5 years local warranty UK/Ireland. An LG panel was over €270 each. Only delivery costs me with insurance over 500 from the continent by truck. This is the prices payed by the pioneers in the industry, all local delaers had more or less appropiate prices but not the products that i wanted so thats why i had to go abroad to get exact model and type. We will save this posts here and check again in few years time...

Prices have dropped in buyer's advantage and in selling quantity for the dealer/manufacturer. No doubt, but look at the quality and about the 10 or 25 years warranty is complete BS. It will cost you more to send it back to them than to order a new one. Also,it will be out of the order as has to be same parameters otherwise your array will go crazy. Not the same with inverter where no questions can be asked despite hearing somewhere that they can (in)validate if you overcharged the inverter with more panels that accepted.

Anyway,all good today,soil is full of water for plants and trees for the next couple of weeks and the Sun is shinning...
Be good.

uck51js9zml2yt

rolion wrote: »

.

Anyway,all good today,soil is full of water for plants and trees for the next couple of weeks and the Sun is shinning...
Be good.

I want proof the sun is shining. It's not shining here

unkel

Find the invoice for your inverter yet, rolion? If you demand from others to prove what they were saying was the truth, you need to do same in return.

rolion

unkel wrote: »

Find the invoice for your inverter yet, rolion? If you demand from others to prove what they were saying was the truth, you need to do same in return.

As attached.
It took me a while to figure out why you need my Proof Of Purchase... and still wondering why .... can you help !?

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rolion wrote: »

As attached.
It took me a while to figure out why you need my Proof Of Purchase... and still wondering why .... can you help !?

Did you buy from Slovakia Rolion? Might be worth chatting to my in-laws if you did!

unkel

€3,290 for 7 panels and inverter - ouch! For 7 panels (collected them myself in Dublin) and my inverter shipped would have cost me €955 incl VAT and shipping just 3 years later :eek:

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

€3,290 for 7 panels and inverter - ouch! For 7 panels (collected them myself in Dublin) and my inverter shipped would have cost me €955 incl VAT and shipping just 3 years later :eek:

Curious where you got panels for ~€100 inc VAT? Cheapest I could find locally were ~€130 inc VAT.

unkel

It was a particularly cheap batch of panels (no longer available), mono, but only 290W and I got it at trade discount, basically the price the SEAI installers pay their wholesaler

rolion

I don't wanna discuss private matters on a public forum.

Less, starting a chase and hunting cheap,no name,discounted products either,bought at trade liquidation or even worse,from a solar plant deal that went wrong.
Some of the panels are failing the testing QA standards and are being throwed on the market at discounted rates with reduced or affected performance.
Or,din't fit the technical performance tests into a big solar farm and returned to dealer to be then "trade discounted" to end users.
Just to mention that I dont have any proves to prove it,in case i am being challenged, sorry.

Personal,i did my home work and years ago i found those LG panels to be premium as they were researched,designed & manufactured by LG.
They came with individual QA certificate, attached to each panel,with technical parameters certified.
Next batch,same LGs and same premium quality.
I have in total 15 LG panels that are happy harvesting for me.

Inverter, the ABB brand,is an industrial brand that can be trusted in any market or country.
Not mentioning it was the only one certified by Irish Grid parameters

Delivery "rather than colelction" it was not possible due to the fact that no Irish dealer had those products in stock or could order for me,whatever i wasnt able to do it myself.
They were offering some other brands that didnt inspired me confidence,all at that time.The truth, those unkown brands have become the normal selling units these days... But,the "know how" provided by the dealer were right on the spot and invaluable helpful.

I am living under the concept that "i'm too poor to buy cheap".
I could be right or i could be wrong .


If the PV panels,artificially being under commercial pressure by EU an China will have followed the same pattern as the EVs cars, now,we,here... will have been talking a different story these days...

Be good

unkel

rolion wrote: »

Less, starting a chase and hunting cheap,no name,discounted products either,bought at trade liquidation or even worse,from a solar plant deal that went wrong.

:rolleyes:

Not allowed to name names, but these came from an Irish wholesaler that supplies a lot of Irish developers and SEAI installers. Via via I was able to arrange the trade discount.

It was a big batch and it was sold out quickly because it was very popular with developers. Look at a new housing estate just built in the last few months, chances are it has the same panels that I have.

rolion

unkel wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Not allowed to name names, but these came from an Irish wholesaler that supplies a lot of Irish developers and SEAI installers. Via via I was able to arrange the trade discount.

It was a big batch and it was sold out quickly because it was very popular with developers. Look at a new housing estate just built in the last few months, chances are it has the same panels that I have.

Thanks.

I am proud that i am a pioneer in this market,today.
My LGs gave me 10MWh,10,000KWh today.

My EV car cost new almost 30k,bought it 4 years later at a fraction of the cost.
Do i feel sorry for the original buyer !?? Maybe, financially but i am sure he was aware of the issues with depreciation and really enjoy it the beauty of the innovative car, careless about money...

This is the price i have to pay in order to be the first "someone" to try something new or to enjoy the challenges. AND,to share the "know how" and how to avoid my errors,mistakes and do it better for the next one person,project or third party maybe.
More or less like you and me...
NOW, if you have access to inside intelligence and contacts with direct trade channels,opposite to us retail clients, then we can see the huge mark-up the dealer,installer,fitter has as per your own posts above. Even worse,saying that an inverter or a panel comes at this price as purchased by you, gets everyone around here scratching their heads and breaking keyboards and mouse on ebay trying to match your best prices... well, can't you agree with me saying that , well that is ... a bit false and wrong and disrespectful !? :rolleyes:

unkel

rolion wrote: »

NOW, if you have access to inside intelligence and contacts with direct trade channels,opposite to us retail clients, then we can see the huge mark-up the dealer,installer,fitter has as per your own posts above.

The markup between retail and wholesale prices is tiny, dude. Depending on the wholesaler, it's about 10-15%

rolion

unkel wrote: »

Find the invoice for your inverter yet, rolion? If you demand from others to prove what they were saying was the truth, you need to do same in return.

Please find attached my inverter Irish grid certification,validation and the quality report.
May i challenge you respectfully again to attach your compliance and QA certificate inverter purchased of ebay, please !?