Eir FTTH contract expired - Switch to Sky?

LMK

Hi
My Eir 12 Month contract has expired, eir Complete Broadband & Phone cost is now €81 PM - was €50
I can according to Bonkers switch to Sky for 12 Months at €30 PM Fibre unlimited & talktime..
Do I need to engage with Eir to transfer (pain in the ass / chaotic! to deal with)or can I just infor Sky and they take it from there...

tsue921i8wljb3

LMK wrote: »

Hi
My Eir 12 Month contract has expired, eir Complete Broadband & Phone cost is now €81 PM - was €50
I can according to Bonkers switch to Sky for 12 Months at €30 PM Fibre unlimited & talktime..
Do I need to engage with Eir to transfer (pain in the ass / chaotic! to deal with)or can I just infor Sky and they take it from there...

I'd check your prices again. There is no talk package currently available with Sky FTTH AFAIK. That price may be for FTTC up to 100Mb.

Sky fibre ultra is what they call FTTH.

Marlow

Sky FTTH starts at 40 EUR, there is no phone included at the moment and after 12 months their pricing is even more appalling than Eir.

There's a good few more offering FTTH on OpenEIRs network. Try check here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057927096

/M

mgbgt1978

At present Vodafone are offering ftth (without phone) for e25 per month for the first 6 months, and e55 per month after that. This works out exactly the same as Sky's offer (e40 per month for 12 months), and seems to stay at e55 after 12 months .
This is for 150mb in both cases. In 99% of homes 150 is more than enough.

BTW I'm in the same situation at the moment and will probably go with VF. The only issue is both companies seem to want to charge an installation fee, when all that's really needed is a modem sent by post.....

Edit: Eir do seem to require 30 day's notice (can be done by letter) regardless of whether the contract is up or not. I sent them a letter to coincide with the end of the 12 month contract.

tsue921i8wljb3

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

At present Vodafone are offering ftth (without phone) for e25 per month for the first 6 months, and e55 per month after that. This works out exactly the same as Sky's offer (e40 per month for 12 months), and seems to stay at e55 after 12 months .
This is for 150mb in both cases. In 99% of homes 150 is more than enough.

BTW I'm in the same situation at the moment and will probably go with VF. The only issue is both companies seem to want to charge an installation fee, when all that's really needed is a modem sent by post.....

Edit: Eir do seem to require 30 day's notice (can be done by letter) regardless of whether the contract is up or not. I sent them a letter to coincide with the end of the 12 month contract.

They are charging an installation fee because it now costs them €170 + VAT to take customers from another ISP when previously it cost them €2.50. You can thank COMREG for that.

tuxy

I wonder what approach other providers will take. Longer contracts?
I know Sky is challenging the change but it may not be successful.

Johnboy1951

Nayeli Sweet Registrar wrote: »

They are charging an installation fee because it now costs them €170 + VAT to take customers from another ISP when previously it cost them €2.50. You can thank COMREG for that.

Does that apply to all installations, regardless when they were installed?

I understood the new charging scheme applied to installs from Jan 2019, and not back-dated to cover previous installs.

What about customers who have already paid an installation fee?
They are now being asked to pay for the same installation a second time?

tsue921i8wljb3

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Does that apply to all installations, regardless when they were installed?

I understood the new charging scheme applied to installs from Jan 2019, and not back-dated to cover previous installs.

What about customers who have already paid an installation fee?
They are now being asked to pay for the same installation a second time?

All installations as far as I know. You may not be asked to pay. It is up to the ISP whether they pass the cost on in part or in full.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Does that apply to all installations, regardless when they were installed?

Yes .. that applies to all FTTH lines. No difference whatsoever.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I understood the new charging scheme applied to installs from Jan 2019, and not back-dated to cover previous installs.

That was part of the discussion from the re-imbursement scheme .. which has been shelved .. nothing to do with the new pricing. It's now just simply one fee, no matter what the operator does.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What about customers who have already paid an installation fee?
They are now being asked to pay for the same installation a second time?

The Operator is. The question is, what the operator will do and how he passes this on.

Again .. the installation fees that were charged previously are still a fraction of the cost to build the network. It'll take at least 5 provider changes at this rate to cover the cost of the build. And a lot of those you're referring to got their installation for free from Eir retail. So that question is pretty much mute.

/M

Johnboy1951

Originally Posted by Johnboy1951 View Post
What about customers who have already paid an installation fee?
They are now being asked to pay for the same installation a second time?

Marlow wrote: »

The Operator is. The question is, what the operator will do and how he passes this on.

Again .. the installation fees that were charged previously are still a fraction of the cost to build the network. It'll take at least 5 provider changes at this rate to cover the cost of the build. And a lot of those you're referring to got their installation for free from Eir retail. So that question is pretty much mute.
/M

This has nothing to do with "the cost to build the network". That is recovered by the monthly fees charged for the broadband connection. The cost remains the same whether I connect to it or not.
This is the connection fee only.
Once I am connected physically, there is no further physical work to be done.
Attempting to confuse the two ..... infrastructure roll out and connection to premises from the passing infrastructure ..... is not at all helpful.

Let me get this straight ...... you believe that if I get a 'discount' from a company, that this discount amount should now be charged to me again by another company?
There were no caveats included with the reduction in the eir pricing.
It was applied ..... end.

By the same logic, if I contract with a provider and get a discounted price on broadband for the first six months, then another provider (or the same provider maybe) should be able to get that discount amount from me by charging me?

What about the €10 or so discount eir gives to existing customers off their standard pricing? Should that be able to be charged again by eir(or even some other company)?

Then there is the greater discount eir gives/gave to new customers .... should that too be able to be charged again to recover the amount of the discount?

I do not at all understand the logic of your position on this.

Marlow

To connect you costs well over 1500 EUR. If not more.

Some connections cost a lot more.

There is no split between installation charge and monthly fees. The cost of building and operating the network has to be paid off over a timeframe. Lets say 10 years. Maybe 20.

So pricing is set, to achieve that. And when the pricing doesn't achieve, what it's supposed to achieve, then the pricing is changed again to get to the target:

Payment for build and operation of the network plus revenue of said asset.

You don't pay an installation charge. You don't own the fibre nor the ONT once it is installed in your home.

The installation (and activation fees) are a service fee. And what they've done in this instant is:

- they have abolished the 270 EUR installation fee (to the operator) in the case where a new line needed to be brought in.
- they have increased the activation charge (for all FTTH lines) from 2.50 to 170 EUR.

So .. no .. you're never going to be charged for an installation fee again ...

Now .. having said that .. No ... it's pretty crap for the operators and it will cause changes in the market, where changing providers every year will become a costly exercise ... that's both good or bad.

But the way you put it is: "I've paid my installation. They can't charge me for installation again!!" .. And that is wrong. Because you paid a service fee, that was labelled as installation charge. But it nowhere near pays for the cost of connecting your premise.

And now they've simply removed your argument, because now there is no installation charge anymore. Just an activation charge.

You don't own anything in that network. The government doesn't own anything in that network. So you have no say in what they do and what they charge. Comreg however regulates them, as they are considered a monopoly network and the pricing they set is what the operators get. That's the only thing preventing them from charging whatever they want.

/M

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

.....

But the way you put it is: "I've paid my installation. They can't charge me for installation again!!" .. And that is wrong. Because you paid a service fee, that was labelled as installation charge. But it nowhere near pays for the cost of connecting your premise.

/M

That very well might be the reasoning being put forward, but it was advertised and invoiced as an installation charge at the time.

There was a discount applied to the installation charge by eir, and the balance was paid by the customer.
Therefore the full installation charge was remitted to Openeir.

So now it seems Openeir have begun to gouge everybody

they have increased the activation charge (for all FTTH lines) from 2.50 to 170 EUR.

That is really ridiculous, and I very much doubt anybody would be able to justify that increase on any basis.
I expect this covers activation AND re-activation (or whatever it might be called to swap the connection from one provider to another).

For COMREG to approve such a price hike there must have been some other justification put forward.

Where can one access details of how these price increases were approved?

mgbgt1978

Just off the phone with Vodafone. Going for the cheapest package, 150m/b without Phone.
Took 3 phone calls as I didn't have my Broadband UAN to hand. Each time I was told (and double-checked) that they are not charging any Installation/Activation Fee as I already have a live FTTH connection. Just the €25 a month for the 1st 6 months and €55 a month thereafter.


....all calls were recorded (at both ends) .

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

For COMREG to approve such a price hike there must have been some other justification put forward.

Where can one access details of how these price increases were approved?

Pricing of Wholesale Broadband Services in the WLA and WCA Markets
FTTH Connection/ Migration Charges

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

Pricing of Wholesale Broadband Services in the WLA and WCA Markets
FTTH Connection/ Migration Charges

Thanks for those links.

Based on the dates of the two documents, it appears that the reducing price per year over the expected 20 year life span of the infrastructure, between present RSP and new RSP has been dropped in favour of a continuous set fee at each change. That fee to continue to be charged for 5 years max.

Some users paid no connection fee to eir, so eir took the full hit of €270, but will recover €170 if the user changes RSP within 5 years. They did agree they should take a portion of the cost of the connection, and this is the portion they allocated to themselves apparently, to the amount of €100.


Other users paid ~€100 connection fee. So 'when' those customers move to another provider, eir ends up not taking any hit at all, having received ~€100 from the customer and receiving €170 from the new RSP, the €270 is covered.
That seems inequitable!


It is not clear what the 'scheme' is with regard to other RSPs who were the first suppliers to the customer of the broadband service. Do they have to operate in similar manner?


It would appear that eir are doing well out of those customers who paid a connection fee.
Essentially eir takes none of the cost of the connection if the customer moves to another RSP.

.

Marlow

All fees are going to OpenEir under this current newly introduced scheme.

None to to Eur retail nor the providers.

Don't confuse Eur retail with OpenEir. They are 2 different businesses that share the same owner. Nothing more these days.

/M

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

All fees are going to OpenEir under this current newly introduced scheme.

None to to Eur retail nor the providers.

Don't confuse Eur retail with OpenEir. They are 2 different businesses that share the same owner. Nothing more these days.

/M

The documents did not make clear any distinction, referring to Eircom only.

tuxy

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The documents did not make clear any distinction, referring to Eircom only.

I notice that COMREG still frequently use Eircom when referring to Open Eir. Are they still trading under the name Eircom?

Johnboy1951

tuxy wrote: »

I notice that COMREG still frequently use Eircom when referring to Open Eir. Are they still trading under the name Eircom?

I think Eircom is the umbrella with eir and Openeir under it ...... but could be mistaken.

LMK

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Edit: Eir do seem to require 30 day's notice (can be done by letter) regardless of whether the contract is up or not. I sent them a letter to coincide with the end of the 12 month contract.

I do see eir require 30 days notice.. otherwise you are eligible for a penalty (not defined) thanks I didn't realise that.

The Sky offer is €40 PM Sky Fibre Ultra 150Mbs for 12 Months + €50 Set-up charge...

The Cush

tuxy wrote: »

I notice that COMREG still frequently use Eircom when referring to Open Eir. Are they still trading under the name Eircom?

eir and open eir are trading names of eircom Limited, Registered as a Branch in Ireland Number 907674, Incorporated in Jersey Number 116389. Branch Address: 1 Heuston South Quarter, St. John's Road, Dublin 8

mgbgt1978

LMK wrote: »

I do see eir require 30 days notice.. otherwise you are eligible for a penalty (not defined) thanks I didn't realise that.

The Sky offer is €40 PM Sky Fibre Ultra 150Mbs for 12 Months + €50 Set-up charge...

In that case I would go with VF . The annual cost is exactly the same but no activation fee. Plus it seems there isn't any increase after the 12 months are up. The 3 Sales Guys I spoke to all told me that the modem will come by courier and I can then contact VF to activate it when it suits me.

mgbgt1978

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Just off the phone with Vodafone. Going for the cheapest package, 150m/b without Phone.
Took 3 phone calls as I didn't have my Broadband UAN to hand. Each time I was told (and double-checked) that they are not charging any Installation/Activation Fee as I already have a live FTTH connection. Just the €25 a month for the 1st 6 months and €55 a month thereafter.


....all calls were recorded (at both ends) .

Got a phone call today from the "Installation Dept" to confirm next Tuesday for "Installation" (they only have to plug the bloody thing in and give the existing ONT Number to an Exchange Tech). This was despite me asking the Sales guys if it was just a matter of them sending me a Modem and me contacting them when I had set it up.

He asked me was I aware of the €99 Installation Fee. I replied that 3 different Reps had told me I did not have to pay this, and that I have the Calls recorded. He told me he would have to pull the Calls to check. Work away Friend, I told him.
He was back on 10 minutes later confirming that I would be up and running next Tuesday and there would no further mention of any €99 Fee.


So, VF are obviously charging the €99 Fee for a Switchover, but if you can get the Sales Guy to tell you it won't apply then they seem happy enough to waive it.