Oil delivered to wrong address

The_Honeybadger

Hi folks I ordered 400ltr heating oil during the week and when there was no sign of it after a few day I rang to query. Supplier claimed it had been delivered the previous day. My daughter was home all day that day and didn’t hear or see them, nor did my neighbour who was home. The tank is accessible without anybody being home so I usually just ring and pre pay and they shove the docket through the letterbox.

There was no delivery docket this time and I was also suspicious because the cap on my tank is a b***h to replace because the threads are worn. They always just barely put it back on and I replace it properly afterwards there is a bit of a knack to it. It was on perfectly when I went to check the tank which is unusual after a delivery. I had dipped the tank a week previously and it was about 1/3 full although I can’t be exactly sure. It’s still around 1/3 full. It’s a 1350 ltr tank afaik.

There are several cul de sacs in my estate that all go 1-20 so I strongly suspect someone else got my delivery. The supplier doesn’t want to know, says they made the delivery and they are in that estate every day and would never make such a mistake. After getting fairly persistent on the phone the manager has agreed to come out Monday to present the delivery slip as proof and to check the tank (pointless unless you know what was in it before). There is probably just enough oil in the tank for him to claim he is right but I’m 99% sure there was no delivery. What are my rights here and how should I approach this?

Graham

Mod Note

OP, I've moved your thread to consumer issues. Best of luck.

harr

Sounds like a mistake on delivery but a hard one to prove unfortunately..... as you said your tank is accessible to anyone is it possible some low life seen the delivery being made and then helped himself to your oil or some of it..
It was happening down my way where they were following The tankers and coming back at night robbing the oil..
Ask him why the docket wasn’t posted into the house or check if any of your neighbors has cctv it might show the lorry or not ...the time should be on the docket.

GoneHome

Something similar happened me last year but in reverse, the company got the order mixed up, I ordered €400 of oil, it hadn't arrived a week later so I rang them again, they said no problem we'll deliver it for sure tomorrow, which they did but the following day after that they delivered another €700 of oil! Ended up with a lot of oil and a BIG bill.

The_Honeybadger

harr wrote: »

Sounds like a mistake on delivery but a hard one to prove unfortunately..... as you said your tank is accessible to anyone is it possible some low life seen the delivery being made and then helped himself to your oil or some of it..
It was happening down my way where they were following The tankers and coming back at night robbing the oil..
Ask him why the docket wasn’t posted into the house or any of your neighbors has cctv it might show not show the lorry...the time should be on the docket.

Hi Harr they told me the time but nobody has CCTV as far as I am aware. I was home 20 minutes after the claimed delivery and there is no history of oil theft in the estate or in the town really it’s more rural properties they target.

It is a hard one to prove it’s a pity the tank wasn’t nearly empty as I’d have proof then. They just fobbed off the question about the docket stating they would email it to me as proof.

The_Honeybadger

GoneHome wrote: »

Something similar happened me last year but in reverse, the company got the order mixed up, I ordered €400 of oil, it hadn't arrived a week later so I rang them again, they said no problem we'll deliver it for sure tomorrow, which they did but the following day after that they delivered another €700 of oil! Ended up with a lot of oil and a BIG bill.

Did they make you pay the €700 straight away for their mistake? I’d have paid it off over time when I’m good and ready

GoneHome

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Did they make you pay the €700 straight away for their mistake? I’d have paid it off over time when I’m good and ready

I could have paid them straight away but I said f**k that, it was their own mistake so I paid them off in instalments

elperello

OP
You said he says he he is going to present the delivery slip as proof.
How can he produce the slip now if the business arrangement you had with him is that you pay in advance and the driver leaves the slip?
Those slips are two part one for driver one for customer.
How do they expect to get paid and then produce so called retrospective proof of delivery which according to the terms of your arrangement should have been posted through your door.
That oil could be anywhere
If they stuck to the arrangement this would not have happened.

Victor

harr wrote: »

as you said your tank is accessible to anyone is it possible some low life seen the delivery being made and then helped himself to your oil or some of it..

So the daughter didn't notice the tanker or the guys stealing it?

type85

If your sure your right and the oil was not delivered then just remove 100/200L of whats remaining. That way it'll be clear to the delivery company it wasn't delivered. You'll need 5/10 20L empty drums and just stash it in the house.

troyzer

It's not rocket science.

You ordered something and there's no proof of it ever arriving. Tell them to jog on.

Whether or not it may or may not have been delivered to another house is immaterial. They didn't supply a receipt at the time which you said is standard practice. There is literally zero evidence of this transaction occuring.

Tell them to fill it as you asked or refuse payment and go somewhere else.

LionelNashe

It's pointless the manager coming out unless he brings the driver with him, and then you're hoping that the driver will own up to his mistake when he sees the house.

the_syco

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

After getting fairly persistent on the phone the manager has agreed to come out Monday to present the delivery slip as proof and to check the tank (pointless unless you know what was in it before).

How'd they have said slip if they did the delivery?

It'll be interesting to see what name is on it.

Are there other suppliers in the area? If you paid by CC, consider doing a charge-back for goods not received.

elperello

troyzer wrote: »

It's not rocket science.

You ordered something and there's no proof of it ever arriving. Tell them to jog on.

His problem is that he has paid in advance.

I think that if the driver left the oil without leaving the top part of the docket they have no proof of delivery.

Producing a docket now after the fact is not good enough.

cute geoge

No law to get!!!! they said they delivered ,your job is to make sure you get your delivery no point in paying up front
My neighbour got his tank filled by mistake one time and the stingy f++ker got away without paying!!!
What i would do is get the same company fill up tank again and let sweat for their money next time

The_Honeybadger

Just to clarify I have already paid for the oil by Debit card so no going back. The manager has told me that the delivery duplicate in the office has the correct name and address on it and he told me the time of delivery. It’s really curious that the driver didn’t post it and also that the really fidgety cap was placed back correctly when they’ve never done that before.

My daughter is a teenager and tbh the house could be burning down around her and she’d hardly notice so I’m not leaning on that as proof.

kippy

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Just to clarify I have already paid for the oil by Debit card so no going back. The manager has told me that the delivery duplicate in the office has the correct name and address on it and he told me the time of delivery. It’s really curious that the driver didn’t post it and also that the really fidgety cap was placed back correctly when they’ve never done that before.

My daughter is a teenager and tbh the house could be burning down around her and she’d hardly notice so I’m not leaning on that as proof.

You need to get the driver over as mentioned, as well as the manager.
One would hope the driver would realise his mistake straight away.
If not then you are in an awkward situation, howevee I would approach it by stating the known facts,
The oil level in your tank has not increased. There was no delivery docket on the premises. The tank was closed properly which is not normal. Your daughter did not hear the delivery. You are a long time customer.
You'll have to see where that gets ya.

GoneHome

OP print off the extract of your bank statement showing the payment as proof and if they're still insisting that they delivered the oil threaten them with your solicitor/small claims court

elperello

Well your name and address would be on it anyway because that's where the driver was sent so that is no proof.
The time is also no proof that the delivery was at your house.

It's a large truck pulled up outside the house with engine running. I know, teenager headphones etc!

You know by the levels in your tank that the delivery was not made. Don't let them browbeat you.

They breached the terms of your agreement with them.

Ten Pin

have already paid for the oil by Debit card so no going back

Ask your bank about this, AFAIK they may be able to reverse the payment if it's not resolved by the supplier

The_Honeybadger

Ten Pin wrote: »

Why do you think you can't do charge back on a debit card?

Didn’t know I could, I thought you could only do that on credit cards?

GoneHome

Actually do delivery lorries have dash-cam, if so ask them for the evidence of delivery to your house

elperello

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/disputed-card-transactions-chargeback/

There is more info online.

upupup

If you can get the driver out with the manager then ask the driver was there anything difficulty in putting the oil into the tank.(the worn cap)....if he mentions the cap then he was there,,if he says everything was fine then ask him to put the cap on and see what happens

Ten Pin

Didn’t know I could, I thought you could only do that on credit cards?

AFAIK credit cards give extra cover for goods but if goods haven't been delivered then you can dispute the transaction whether it's debit or credit card

harr

Victor wrote: »

So the daughter didn't notice the tanker or the guys stealing it?

OP did say “after a few days they noticed it wasn’t delivered “ they might not have stolen it that particular day it was allegedly delivered. If it was nicked it probably would have been that night or they waited till nobody was home.

GoneHome

harr wrote: »

OP did say “after a few days they noticed it wasn’t delivered “ they might not have stolen it that particular day it was allegedly delivered. If it was nicked it probably would have been that night or they waited till nobody was home.

Yes stealing oil from tanks is rampant around here, rural Co Limerick, but I've never really heard of it within a housing estate

harr

GoneHome wrote: »

Yes stealing oil from tanks is rampant around here, rural Co Limerick, but I've never really heard of it within a housing estate

Probably hard to get away with 400L from a housing estate alright. But it has happened near me where the little ****s were stealing up to 100L a night from various houses, not only that but they were leaving the valve open on purpose and destroying the gardens.

The_Honeybadger

In relation to the oil level when I dipped it the previous week I’m almost sure it was around 1/3 but I wouldn’t bet my lottery winnings on it. It was nowhere near empty though that’s for sure.

Would anybody know how many inches the level would increase with 400ltrs? Probably depends on how much is in the tank to begin with?

The_Honeybadger

There is no way the oil was stolen I’m not even considering it as a possibility

Poll Dubh

Small claims court is another avenue.

Find out if truck has GPS tracker.

The_Honeybadger

Poll Dubh wrote: »

Small claims court is another avenue.

Find out if truck has GPS tracker.

Yes I will ask if they have a dash cam or GPS

GoneHome

OP come back to us Monday, I'd love to hear how this pans out, don't give in to them

elperello

In preparation for your meeting get out your old delivery dockets if you have them.

That will allow you to compare with what he produces and confirm that it is a "customer copy" and not a "driver copy".


Also as regards the level in the tank, if it is rectangular box type tank it is easy to calculate the height/volume. A round type is more difficult.

The_Honeybadger

GoneHome wrote: »

OP come back to us Monday, I'd love to hear how this pans out, don't give in to them

Will do. I am no shrinking violet and won’t let them off easy but it’s a tricky one I have no definitive proof either way and there is probably around 300 - 400ltr in the tank now so I could understand them thinking I’m wrong and the driver will probably not admit a mistake even if he knows he messed up.

If we can sort it either way Monday I’d be happy because i am up the walls at work and I really could do without the hassle of doing chargebacks and small claims court etc. Will ensure I am there for all future deliveries and will only pay in cash from now on. What a total pain the hole.

The_Honeybadger

elperello wrote: »

In preparation for your meeting get out your old delivery dockets if you have them.

That will allow you to compare with what he produces and confirm that it is a "customer copy" and not a "driver copy".


Also as regards the level in the tank, if it is rectangular box type tank it is easy to calculate the height/volume. A round type is more difficult.

I have old dockets to compare. The tanks is the cylinder type so I presume the levels would go up by different ratios depending on how much is already in the tank if that makes sense.

GoneHome

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

What a total pain the hole.

That's exactly how I felt this time last year when they wanted €1100 off me for their own mistake, anyway as I say don't give in to the f*****s, best of luck

jonski

Slightly off topic but 400ltrs is an odd one . 500 is where the price drops so that might be something to watch for in the future . I have a 950 Lt tank and from 1/3 full 500 almost fills it . 400 plus 1/3 in yours should have taken it well over half way .

Del2005

Poll Dubh wrote: »

Small claims court is another avenue.

Find out if truck has GPS tracker.

As it's the companies job to prove they delivered ask if the driver has location history enabled on their phone. if they have it'll show where they stopped to deliver the oil.

Fann Linn

Del2005 wrote: »

As it's the companies job to prove they delivered ask if the driver has location history enabled on their phone. if they have it'll show where they stopped to deliver the oil.

Wouldn't the delivery docket show that the company delivered the oil?

GoneHome

Fann Linn wrote: »

Wouldn't the delivery docket show that the company delivered the oil?

yes but the OP didn't receive a delivery docket

elperello

Fann Linn wrote: »

Wouldn't the delivery docket show that the company delivered the oil?

It would but the OP never got a docket. If they did they would have gone out and checked the tank, seen the oil level increased and secured the lid as in previous deliveries.

In this case the oil company have breached the terms of business agreed with the OP by not posting the docket through the letter box. They are now claiming that producing the docket now is some sort of proof of delivery.

kippy

To be fair, there's a considerable amount of trust required from the customer in these transactions, docket or no docket. Indeed the merchant could insist that someone be home to avoid these types of issues but that doesn't always suit.
Interested to see how this plays out.

Rulmeq

Have a look around the neighbour's doors, some people in my area have "Ring" doorbells, that record everything. If you can get one to send you the footage from the date/time they said they were there, it should at least give you something to go on.

iano.p

Go around the other cul de sac and ask did anyone get a oil delivery. This happened me with ten bags of coal I even took the coal man and showed him the bags at the wrong address. He still denied it saying we are pulling fast one. He fecker still denied it even doe I have cctv

The_Honeybadger

iano.p wrote: »

Go around the other cul de sac and ask did anyone get a oil delivery. This happened me with ten bags of coal I even took the coal man and showed him the bags at the wrong address. He still denied it saying we are pulling fast one. He fecker still denied it even doe I have cctv

Was thinking of doing this I don’t know the people there but I could give a knock on the door I suppose. Thing is if they think they can get away with a free fill of oil will they even admit it? I probably would but not everyone would.

fineso.mom

The above is what i would do OP. If the oil company is adamant they delivered oil then it must be somewhere. So, if you are 20 Beech Close go to 20 Beech Way and 20 Beech Gardens and ask them if them if there is any chance they got your oil by mistake. Maybe they saw the docket and figured it was put in their door by mistake, or maybe they realised what happened and are thinking they will say nothing and enjoy the free oil. But you might be able to tell by their reaction if they know anything about it.
A friend of mine drives an oil truck and all the customer info on the docket comes from the office...once the delivery is made,the volume is recorded automatically and added to the docket and it prints. Every litre is accounted for. The truck is filled with x amount, and the dockets have to match up to x amount at the end of the day.
Do you regularily get oil from this company? Did they say it was same driver as always?

The_Honeybadger

Yes I always get my oil from them they said it is an experienced driver they have a lot of staff so not sure if it’s the same driver always I rarely meet them. I think I will hold off on calling to neighbours until I speak to them again like I said there are a lot of people who would say nothing and just take the free oil with a big smile on their face.

If the manager is dismissive tomorrow I think I have enough to write to them formally and give them 10 days to present irrefutable proof of delivery before I do a chargeback for non delivery

chin nuts

I remember my neighbour ordered oil. Can't remember how much but when it was delivered they put in double what she ordered. Guy produced the docket and she nearly died. Obviously couldn't afford it, she was a single mother and things were tight enough. Driver said my mistake sorry but you have to pay it it's in tank now, we can do installments.

Next day the boss rang her saying she had to pay it and they'll set up a direct debit every month for her. She told him she couldnt afford it, he said that if she didnt pay that he wouldntake it out of tge delivery drivers pay and that he has a family too. She felt like she was being strong armed into paying and didn't want the extra oil so asked me to speak to him. I said he's welcome to come and take the oil out of the tank, he said he couldn't do that, so I politely told him to fook off and leave the girl alone. Sounds like he's running a scam and taking advantage of a young single mother either way it's his mistake so suck it up. That was that.

sham58107

As already stated all of those trucks have trackers fitted just for this purpose, so manager should be able to check time of delivery ( as per truck meter) with tracker location at same time .

No need to get into hassle, somebody made a mistake let technology sort it .

If meter and tracker match you have lost your oil, if not manager goes to whoever got delivery and gets paid, and you make sure in future somebody signs for your oil.

thebiglad

If he does show you the delivery docket it should have a number on it - those numbers will run consecutively as the dockets are produced.

Ask to see the dockets either side of your own and see what date is on them - it may show that the docket he is claiming was produced at a later time.

He will correctly say with GDPR he cannot show you the docket with someone elses name and address etc present but, he can cover that portion up - what you want to see is the date it was produced on.

If he will not show to you then it definitely an argument for later with a Solicitor or at Small Claims court.

Also, have you tried calling to other houses in a similar location in their cul de sacs as your own and ask if they had a docket through their door on the date in question?