Garda accuses you of being on the phone driving when you werent and you get a fine

Captain Obvious

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

or maybe his mate is showing a reasonable response in order to raise awareness about it? He was berated and treated like a criminal with only the the Gardas word as bible. 10-30years they may have been able to get away with this carry on, thankfully the dash cams were rolling and it was all recorded.

I dont understand peoples passive mentality when it comes to Garda like this and the reactions from people who have had to deal with situations like this, they may have 'quotas' to meet but it doesn't mean they can make things up and give you hard time for it cause they can.

Imo, I wouldnt be arsed trying to make a public display, nor going to the local station because nothing will come of it. Once the charge/pints were cleared thats it, I cross it out and put it down to an unfortunate & massive waste of time. It will never change.

There's no quotas. Even if there was it would be easy to fill your book with legitimate tickets. have you seen the state of driving in this country? No one should be abused and berated like the op describes though. Gardaí have a lot of stress to deal with but taking it out and random drivers isn't acceptable. If the person wants to fight the ticket then there is a procedure in place to do so. If the op wants to complain about the Garda then there is a procedure for that to. If the op wants to pick a public fight with the Garda then that's up to him. I'd have my car in perfect condition going forward though.

STB.

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

The OPs mate and the OP are about doing the max damage possible to the guard.

They are right to do so as citizens of this state if someone is abusing their power. There are consequences for using a phone whilst driving.

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I'm simply pointing out that without showing his lap and hands the camera does not prove his innocence.

I'm not on the guards side. Just being realistic.

Guard could claim he misspoke or some ****e. Meant speaker phone or some other waffle. Sure it could have just been texting.

I'd not fancy going to court with the evidence personally.

This is nonsense

It has already been pointed out to you that there are dashcams that record the interior as well as the exterior that you called bull**** on.

It has already been pointed out to you that the member of AGS accused the driver of having a phone in their hand whilst driving.

The dashcam footage will prove his innocence of what he was accused of.

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

In court a guards word is taken as gospel by a judge particularly in traffic cases.

This is the problem and needs to be tackled. And finally you may want to read this article below before you spout any more misinformation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/just-three-drivers-convicted-over-mobile-phone-use-1.3419762

dudara wrote: »

Just get your friend to go talk to the ranking officer in the station, with his evidence. Deal with it in a grown up way. If the Garda made a mistake, the evidence will show it.

I wouldn’t recommend going in all guns blazing, that will probably only get everyone’s back up. Just calmly say that you believe a mistake was made and can the fine be rescinded.

This is really poor advice dudara.

There are consequences for driving with a phone, so a member of AGS cannot make mistakes. They either see the person with a phone or they dont. Anything else is an abuse of power. Going to the Seargant is not going to resolve anything. Lessons must be learned or the abuse of power continues. There are bad apples in every organisation.

suicide_circus

The gardai are renowned for being a clean, professional and conscientious organisation.

wexfordman2

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

What.
The OP has specifically said you can only see the driver's head and shoulders.

So you cant see his lap and hands.

Therefore he has actually zero proof that his phone was not in use.

I am amazed how you can refer to the op post in defense of your position, but completely evade the bit where the op says the Garda clearly stated he say the driver using the phone with it up to his ear !!!!

If what the op says is true, then here is no argument and I am suspicious of your selectivity

Avatar MIA

Something like a third. A Third! of Gardai are under investigation. And as a general rule there's likely to be more actual transgressors than those in the process of investigation in a given situation.

Personally I know Gardai that seem fine, but I've also had experiences of Gardai where I didn't think they were the most competent organisation.

Are they above the type of situation the OP describes, clearly not. But the Irish are still getting over their disbelief that those in authority may not have their best interests to heart. It sad, but that's life.

I don't have the doff my cap, inferiority complex either and I commend the OP's friend.

shockwave

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Happened to my wife

You were on the phone

I don't have a phone with me in the car

I saw you on the phone

No phone in the car it's at home

He starts losing the head and proceeds to search the car and when he finds no phone he then pats her down

She went straight down to the local station and made a complaint

So what happened after she made the complaint? Absolutly nothing i presume.

dudara

STB. wrote: »

This is really poor advice dudara.

There are consequences for driving with a phone, so a member of AGS cannot make mistakes. They either see the person with a phone or they dont. Anything else is an abuse of power. Going to the Seargant is not going to resolve anything. Lessons must be learned or the abuse of power continues. There are bad apples in every organisation.

There are an awful amount of assumptions being made in this thread. None of us know how the Garda actually behaved, and none of us know how the OP’s friend behaved. Therefore I wouldn’t be making any assumptions at all.

A Garda can make a mistake. That doesn’t mean they are a liar or corrupt. They are vastly different accusations to simply making a mistake. Going in and shouting “liar” or “corrupt” would rightly get anyone’s back up at you.

The only advice I can give is to speak with the ranking officer in a civil way. Discussions like that can clear up a lot of mistakes. Failing that, you can escalate. But why wouldn’t you try that first?

Avatar MIA

dudara wrote: »

But why wouldn’t you try that first?

Because this may simply fix the OPs friend's problem, and if it were an isolated incident then fine. But it doesn't highlight an issue where it looks like Gardai are not above abusing power where their word is worth more than another individual. Has Maurice McCabe's situation gone unnoticed?

I Would love to live in a situation where the Gardai are above suspicion, of course. Alas... And it gives me zero pleasure in saying that.

YFlyer

maximoose wrote: »

There are plenty of dashcams available that record out the windscreen as well as wide angle back into the cabin of the vehicle. See them all the time in taxis.

Yes on Fake taxi website.

Hercule Poirot

I sent a link to this thread to a very good friend of mine who is a Garda - this was his response:

"If he wanted to do maximum damage he should let it go to court. Tell the local paper about the scandal he's about to unfold. Let the guard give his sworn evidence then produce the footage in defence. Let him perjure himself in a full court with media present then go for the jugular and push for perjury against the prick."

It won't surprise any of when I say that I believe my friend to be an honest Garda, arseholes like this make his job harder and is a contributing factor, along with the high level scandals, to a complete break down in trust from the public towards An Garda Síochána

mad muffin

I would take a leaf out of Ray Donovan

Avatar MIA

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

I sent a link to this thread to a very good friend of mine who is a Garda - this was his response:

"If he wanted to do maximum damage he should let it go to court. Tell the local paper about the scandal he's about to unfold. Let the guard give his sworn evidence then produce the footage in defence. Let him perjure himself in a full court with media present then go for the jugular and push for perjury against the prick."

It won't surprise any of when I say that I believe my friend to be an honest Garda, arseholes like this make his job harder and is a contributing factor, along with the high level scandals, to a complete break down in trust from the public towards An Garda Síochána

Clearly the Gardai most affected by the Garda referenced in the OP are people like your friend.

And he's right. But, to bring some perspective, if I ever met a Garda in a professional capacity my default position and expectation is still that they will be professional and will be fair.

Captain Obvious

dudara wrote: »

A Garda can make a mistake. That doesn’t mean they are a liar or corrupt. They are vastly different accusations to simply making a mistake.

Something that seems lost on most.

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

I sent a link to this thread to a very good friend of mine who is a Garda - this was his response:

"If he wanted to do maximum damage he should let it go to court. Tell the local paper about the scandal he's about to unfold. Let the guard give his sworn evidence then produce the footage in defence. Let him perjure himself in a full court with media present then go for the jugular and push for perjury against the prick."

It won't surprise any of when I say that I believe my friend to be an honest Garda, arseholes like this make his job harder and is a contributing factor, along with the high level scandals, to a complete break down in trust from the public towards An Garda Síochána

He may be an honest Garda but he doesn't understand the law.

Wildly Boaring

STB. wrote: »

This is nonsense

It has already been pointed out to you that there are dashcams that record the interior as well as the exterior that you called bull**** on.

It has already been pointed out to you that the member of AGS accused the driver of having a phone in their hand whilst driving.

The dashcam footage will prove his innocence of what he was accused of.

It's been pointed out many many times that there are dashcams for the interior.

Wide angle ones that catch the rear.

Drivers sit in the front.

The OP has confirmed that you can only see the drivers head and shoulders.

Even you are saying in this post "in their hand" which is the offence.

I'm not on the guards side.
This guard should be sacked but I'd bet my car nothing will come of this.

Avatar MIA

Captain Obvious wrote: »

... but he doesn't understand the law.

In the same way paedophile suspect Garda McCabe didn't understand "The Law"?

STB.

dudara wrote: »

There are an awful amount of assumptions being made in this thread. None of us know how the Garda actually behaved, and none of us know how the OP’s friend behaved. Therefore I wouldn’t be making any assumptions at all.

A Garda can make a mistake. That doesn’t mean they are a liar or corrupt. They are vastly different accusations to simply making a mistake. Going in and shouting “liar” or “corrupt” would rightly get anyone’s back up at you.

The only advice I can give is to speak with the ranking officer in a civil way. Discussions like that can clear up a lot of mistakes. Failing that, you can escalate. But why wouldn’t you try that first?

There certainly are. Assumptions that the member made a "mistake" is the first you made. The second is that you assume that the OP was disrespectful, yet from what I have read from the OP, the opposite is true.

I and others here have cast opinions based on what the OP has described. Yours are on what basis ?

Getting someones back up ? If they are not cabable of doing the job professionally, then perhaps another walk of life is beckoning.

Remember this is all caught on camera,

LotharIngum wrote: »

I saw the video.

The cop was very nasty alright but the crux of the matter is that the inside of the car is recorded clears showing him just driving along. He gets stopped and asked why he thinks he was stopped. He says he has no idea. The cop starts mouthing off and telling him he saw him on the phone.
So he just says, I can assure you I wasn't on the phone. I never use the phone while im driving.

The cop says "Don't think im an idiot. I clearly saw you holding a phone to your ear and talking. Are you calling be a liar?"

He just says no, but you didn't see me with the phone to my ear. Its in my pocket. Would you like to check it?

Loads more abuse and expletives and a fine and told not to be such a smart c%nt on future and hes lucky all he is getting is done for the phone.

Friend was clearly upset and shaken and then realized he had the whole thing recorded which he checked when he got home.

If this is true, and all we can do is "assume" that it is, then its clearly an abuse of power. Making a mistake does not come in to it.

The OP needs to challenge this in court. There are many that go to court that would not have this evidence. When the member under oath states that he saw the driver with the phone in his hand then there will be trouble.

The State must never proceed or be allowed to succeed against it's citizens by foul or unfair means.

Ken Tucky

dudara wrote: »

There are an awful amount of assumptions being made in this thread. None of us know how the Garda actually behaved, and none of us know how the OP’s friend behaved. Therefore I wouldn’t be making any assumptions at all.

A Garda can make a mistake. That doesn’t mean they are a liar or corrupt. They are vastly different accusations to simply making a mistake. Going in and shouting “liar” or “corrupt” would rightly get anyone’s back up at you.

The only advice I can give is to speak with the ranking officer in a civil way. Discussions like that can clear up a lot of mistakes. Failing that, you can escalate. But why wouldn’t you try that first?

I think most assumptions are based on experience with the law. Everyone will have a story to tell where they are on the receiving end of it for little or nothing but then we have our indigenous people who are above the law. We have youths who have committed many crimes and go unpunished(see this week's news-staggering). We have speed traps everywhere for the fish in a barrel money.
Whatever you do, don't drive in a bus lane!!!!

Stuff like this rankles people.
The force is useless, that's my experience. Try reporting a burglary attempt while it's happening.Wait for the squad car, two hours later you might see them.

These are people's experiences..its not story telling.
I hope this person gets his pound of flesh. The Garda in this post unfortunately is the way the force is seen. Too many thicks giving the good ones a bad name!!

VeryTerry

dudara wrote: »

There are an awful amount of assumptions being made in this thread. None of us know how the Garda actually behaved, and none of us know how the OP’s friend behaved. Therefore I wouldn’t be making any assumptions at all.

Sure what's the point of any thread on this forum if you're not going to take a very reasonable opening post at face value? Anyone can take the ”dont like it, probably didn't happen" approach to anything.

STB.

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

It's been pointed out many many times that there are dashcams for the interior.

Wide angle ones that catch the rear.

Drivers sit in the front.

The OP has confirmed that you can only see the drivers head and shoulders.

Even you are saying in this post "in their hand" which is the offence.

I'm not on the guards side.
This guard should be sacked but I'd bet my car nothing will come of this.

Yeah you see that bolded part, thats the offence (phone in hand/phone to head). The OP has seen the video and claims the video shows the member of AGS stating

"Don't think im an idiot. I clearly saw you holding a phone to your ear and talking. Are you calling be a liar?"

The CAM shows that is not the case.

Is there anything else I or others need to spell out to you ?

Pkiernan

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

It's been pointed out many many times that there are dashcams for the interior.

Wide angle ones that catch the rear.

Drivers sit in the front.

The OP has confirmed that you can only see the drivers head and shoulders.

Even you are saying in this post "in their hand" which is the offence.

I'm not on the guards side.
This guard should be sacked but I'd bet my car nothing will come of this.

Hole. Digging. Stop.

Fr Tod Umptious

You see I am very sceptical about the whole thread

1. The OP said this happened to a friend, so straight away we are getting 2nd hand information,

2. The friend

wants to do as much damage as possible

and

is trying to figure out how to do the most damage to this particular gard

Extreme behavior really over a fine don't you think.
Most people would go to the station with the dash cam evidence and talk to a senior officer and try and get is sorted locally

3. The only post about this is in AH, no post about in it in Motors or Legal Discussion where are the types of places I'd expect something like this to first appear if the OP was looking for advice for the friend

4. It was only posted a day or two after another high profile story about policing in this country and AH is just the place to get people bashing anyone, not only Garadi, when it's flavour of the week.

OP , I call BS on the whole thing

There was no traffic stop, there was no prick of a Garda, there was no dash cam, there is no friend.

RhubarbCrumble

OP, can you tell us roughly whereabouts in the country this happened?

eagle eye

Avatar MIA wrote:

In the same way paedophile suspect Garda McCabe didn't understand "The Law"?

No, in the way that he talked about perjury.

Avatar MIA

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Extreme behavior really over a fine don't you think.

What I call BS on is people seeing this as simply a fine.

It's the being subjected to abuse of power that's the (alleged, happy?) issue here. And that's huge. Can you really not see that?

STB.

Fr Tod, if you have read the thread like any other sane person you would not come to any other conclusion that the OP's friend has a very good reason for doing this.

Being dealt with aggressively, non professionally with a member abusing their power "are you calling me a liar" and using profanities at a citizen of this country is not fúcking well on. That does not go with the job.

In the current climate if such a video was released would cause a serious shítstorm.

OP, tell your friend to release this on the internet. Blurr the face of the guard and his on dashcam. He'll get his outrage from the public. AGS will have to investigate. Guard will not turn up in court.

Do come back and tell us the outcome.

Avatar MIA

eagle eye wrote: »

No, in the way that he talked about perjury.

How so?

moby2101

Kind of a related incident, dashcam involved.
Last May the annual Limerick marathon had finished. The traffic lights were either flashing amber or out of sequence because of all the road closures earlier and some had not been reset.
Me and my wife were at a junction, on a red light....waited at least 4-5 minutes before checking etc( zero traffic around) put on hazards and went thru the junction.
About 100m down the road ,unmarked car lights on pulled up behind us, waited for a place to pull in so pulled over and Garda car pulls in , in front of us. Garda walks back, do you know why I pulled you in?

“Yeah I said, I went thru the red light , I’d say the lights are still out of sequence, not working since the marathon this morning “

What do you mean the lights aren’t working, argument ensues, I told him we had sat at that light for 5 minutes at least and then checked the road, put on the hazards and pulled out.
He wasn’t having any of it , now he was corteous enough but he said he had to breathalise me also because I had engaged in an act of dangerous driving.
Blew in the breathalyzer no problems so he says he’s giving me a ticket for dangerous driving.

I said come on that’s not fair, it’s not my fault the lights were not working correctly, I did everything humanly possible to be careful and drive with care.
Then my wife says ( she’s the clever one😆 in our household!!) , we can show you on the dashcam ( I had forgotten about it, i only had it installed a couple of weeks earlier)

So he sits in the passenger seat and I go back over the footage, it clearly shows the light on red for over 4 minutes.
He laughed and said ok fair enough, I can see you were telling me the truth.

So he sent us on our way,

Fr Tod Umptious

STB. wrote: »

There certainly are. Assumptions that the member made a "mistake" is the first you made. The second is that you assume that the OP was disrespectful, yet from what I have read from the OP, the opposite is true.

I and others here have cast opinions based on what the OP has described. Yours are on what basis ?

Getting someones back up ? If they are not cabable of doing the job professionally, then perhaps another walk of life is beckoning.

Remember this is all caught on camera,



If this is true, and all we can do is "assume" that it is, then its clearly an abuse of power. Making a mistake does not come in to it.

The OP needs to challenge this in court. There are many that go to court that would not have this evidence. When the member under oath states that he saw the driver with the phone in his hand then there will be trouble.

The State must never proceed or be allowed to succeed against it's citizens by foul or unfair means.

The OP was not involved in this

It was his/her friend remember

Avatar MIA

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The OP was not involved in this

It was his/her friend remember

Resorting to pedantry?

Fr Tod Umptious

STB. wrote: »

Fr Tod, if you have read the thread like any other sane person you would not come to any other conclusion that the OP's friend has a very good reason for doing this.

Being dealt with aggressively, non professionally with a member abusing their power "are you calling me a liar" and using profanities at a citizen of this country is not fúcking well on. That does not go with the job.

In the current climate if such a video was released would cause a serious shtorm.

OP, tell your friend to release this on the internet. Blurr the face of the guard and his on dashcam. He'll get his outrage from the public. AGS will have to investigate. Guard will not turn up in court.

Do come back and tell us the outcome.

I said that on Page 3 of this thread, a day ago

Lets be having it OPs friend, this is social media, this will get traction.