Gardaí Can't be bothered to investigate 3500 children committing...

Alrigghtythen

... 1000s of crimes.

Why not?

Are these all children of garda or where they just not bothered?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thejournal.ie/garda-scandal-youth-referral-4445018-Jan2019/%3famp=1
Thousands of crimes, including rape, not prosecuted due to serious failings in Garda

DublinWriter

Listening to the news today, you really don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to work out what possibly happened.

The Garda National Youth Diversion Scheme had been in operation since 2001.

They suddenly discover issues starting from 2010, which was coincidentally the year which the system was put on pulse.

Someone is going under the bus for this, and I really doubt it will be the 25% of the entire force still serving that these cases involve - remember that many guards would have already resigned/retired between 2010 and now, so the figure would be a lot higher.

Classic indifference by the Gardaí, brush this feral behaviour under the carpet and hope it will disappear. All about self-preservation, fear of entering rough housing estates/halting sites too much for the ticker.

enricoh

Just roll out paul williams on rte news to say we need more overtime!

Lackey

Why would they bother investigating anyone ?

100 previous convictions?
Danced on someone’s head and killed them?
Drove on drink/drugs and plough someone out of it?
Child porn?
Rape?
You’ll get a suspended/reduced sentence to add to those 100 previous convictions and off you go.
Guards are pissing into the wind.

Alrigghtythen

Lackey wrote: »

Why would they bother investigating anyone ?

100 previous convictions?
Danced on someone’s head and killed them?
Drove on drink/drugs and plough someone out of it?
Child porn?
Rape?
You’ll get a suspended/reduced sentence to add to those 100 previous convictions and off you go.
Guards are pissing into the wind.

They would bother investigating because its their job which they are paid to do

Harry Palmr

What do the Guards do all day?

Mantis Toboggan

Amazing how terrible and corrupt the gardai in this country are.

whisky_galore

Maybe they came from 'well respected' families or they were playing for the county?

Captain Obvious

It's pretty well covered how it happened. They previously had a system where juveniles who were no longer fit for caution were put on a list, called a red star list, by the people running the juvenile diversion program. The Garda could prosecute this person straight away. Then someone decided this was unfair as the law technically required the juvenile diversion program decide on every charge individually. So whenever a juvenile was arrested they could not be charged, even if there was no chance they would be given a caution. When a Garda wanted to prosecute a juvenile they had to submit a file for direction by the juvenile diversion program. This had the knock on effect of massively increasing the workload of the juvenile diversion office and the Garda, who would have to find the youth a second time to arrest him to be charged. This also created delays to the extent that minor crimes were statute barred before the Garda was notified to prosecute.

But that's not all that happened. They also decided to go full digital with the whole thing but neglected to train any Gardaí in the use of the new system. Most didn't even know it was happening and continued to send in paper notifications. It's pretty much the standard way they introduce new things to the organisation.

Alrigghtythen

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What do the Guards do all day?

Protection for the drug gangs? Security for the shell? Running heroin?

Lackey

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

They would bother investigating because its their job which they are paid to do

I’m not a guarda fan girl
But Lets be honest the real problem is the light judiciary and free legal aid gravy train
They can’t secure decent sentences against adult offenders, what will happen to feral youths and their parents...nothing.

James Brown

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What do the Guards do all day?

Falsify breath tests by all accounts.

tomoliver

Lackey wrote: »

I’m not a guarda fan girl
But Lets be honest the real problem is the light judiciary and free legal aid gravy train
They can’t secure decent sentences against adult offenders, what will happen to feral youths and their parents...nothing.

Bingo∆∆

El_Bee

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's pretty well covered how it happened. They previously had a system where juveniles who were no longer fit for caution were put on a list, called a red star list, by the people running the juvenile diversion program. The Garda could prosecute this person straight away. Then someone decided this was unfair as the law technically required the juvenile diversion program decide on every charge individually. So whenever a juvenile was arrested they could not be charged, even if there was no chance they would be given a caution. When a Garda wanted to prosecute a juvenile they had to submit a file for direction by the juvenile diversion program. This had the knock on effect of massively increasing the workload of the juvenile diversion office and the Garda, who would have to find the youth a second time to arrest him to be charged. This also created delays to the extent that minor crimes were statute barred before the Garda was notified to prosecute.

But that's not all that happened. They also decided to go full digital with the whole thing but neglected to train any Gardaí in the use of the new system. Most didn't even know it was happening and continued to send in paper notifications. It's pretty much the standard way they introduce new things to the organisation.

Jesus Christ.

James Brown

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's pretty well covered how it happened. They previously had a system where juveniles who were no longer fit for caution were put on a list, called a red star list, by the people running the juvenile diversion program. The Garda could prosecute this person straight away. Then someone decided this was unfair as the law technically required the juvenile diversion program decide on every charge individually. So whenever a juvenile was arrested they could not be charged, even if there was no chance they would be given a caution. When a Garda wanted to prosecute a juvenile they had to submit a file for direction by the juvenile diversion program. This had the knock on effect of massively increasing the workload of the juvenile diversion office and the Garda, who would have to find the youth a second time to arrest him to be charged. This also created delays to the extent that minor crimes were statute barred before the Garda was notified to prosecute.

But that's not all that happened. They also decided to go full digital with the whole thing but neglected to train any Gardaí in the use of the new system. Most didn't even know it was happening and continued to send in paper notifications. It's pretty much the standard way they introduce new things to the organisation.

Explaining why it happened is appreciated and all...

Just to note any criticism is directed at the organisation and looks like here we go again.

Peter Flynt

In December my mother had her purse stolen by a dodgy tradesman who entered her home. €350 was stolen. This was reported to AGS twice with the phone number of the person who stole it. Statements were provided.

They did nothing.

Last week I was flagged down by a member of AGS driving in a cycle lane. He claimed he saw me with my mobile in my hand. I denied that I had. He asked to see my drivers licence and proceeded to prosecute. 3 penalty points and a €65 fine.

That's the police force we have.

Nothing more than a revenue raising arm of the state. The fact that their Twitter name is @GardaTraffic pretty much says it all.

RustyNut

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What do the Guards do all day?

Breathalyse each other. Very time consuming work that.

Alrigghtythen

Lackey wrote: »

I’m not a guarda fan girl
But Lets be honest the real problem is the light judiciary and free legal aid gravy train
They can’t secure decent sentences against adult offenders, what will happen to feral youths and their parents...nothing.

Should doctors bother treating people? They die anyway.

mgn

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What do the Guards do all day?

Breathalyze people going to work in the morning.Nice easy targets with no hassle.While these scumbags run riot.

gctest50

mgn wrote: »

Breathalyze people going to work in the morning.Nice easy targets with no hassle.While these scumbags run riot.

If your over the limit yer over it

Explain why some people should get special treatment

People having a quick hair-of-the-dog ?


.

DublinWriter

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's pretty well covered how it happened. They previously had a system where juveniles who were no longer fit for caution were put on a list, called a red star list, by the people running the juvenile diversion program.

...and this system appeared to work effectively from 2001 to 2009 until the whole thing went on pulse in 2010. This, a IT system, that reportedly cost €130 million back in the day.

The usual jaded cries of "oh the guards are so corrupt" really doesn't help. The JLO scheme appears to have been functioning correctly between 2001 and 2009 and the guards were doing their job.

El_Bee

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Should doctors bother treating people? They die anyway.

A better analogy would be the Gardai being Nurses and Orderlies in A&E and the Judges being Doctors who send people home to die. Still doesn't quite work.... the point is, Gardai spend x amount of time investigating a crime, building evidence and making an arrest, they bring the criminal before a juudge and it's "he's had a difficult home life, he has learning difficulties (because left school at 14), is battling addiction" etc. etc. and he's outside the court waving at the Gards who brought him in half an hour later. There are endemic problems in the judiciary that need to be addressed, otherwise the Gardai are going to become more and more demoralized, if that's even possible.

El_Bee

gctest50 wrote: »

If your over the limit yer over it

Explain why some people should get special treatment

People having a quick hair-of-the-dog ?


.

You fix a severed artery before a broken bone.

ChikiChiki

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Amazing how terrible and corrupt the gardai in this country are.

Drew Harris is basically highlighting all this. Hope he keeps it up as he is completely challenging the rotten culture in the Gards.

I think for the Guards to so an effective job they need a legal system to back them up. Harris needs to challenge the system.

Father Hernandez

Peter Flynt wrote: »

In December my mother had her purse stolen by a dodgy tradesman who entered her home. €350 was stolen. This was reported to AGS twice with the phone number of the person who stole it. Statements were provided.

They did nothing.

Last week I was flagged down by a member of AGS driving in a cycle lane. He claimed he saw me with my mobile in my hand. I denied that I had. He asked to see my drivers licence and proceeded to prosecute. 3 penalty points and a €65 fine.

That's the police force we have.

Nothing more than a revenue raising arm of the state. The fact that their Twitter name is @GardaTraffic pretty much says it all.

Had my bank card robbed/swiped 2 years ago, €600 taken from it. A female on a well known street was spotted using it at an ATM card thanks to the bank. After I went to AGS, made a statement, went through the procedures, she was found, arrested, went to court, received a suspended sentence. Had been known to Garda and previous convictions.

Sounds like you didn’t have a positive exp with AGS but there will be bad eggs in every organization, those dealing with my case seemed genuinely interested finding this person, goes to court and fook all happens. Would be a kick in the teeth for anyone in any organization when you work hard (or solving a case in this instance) and fook all in return in terms of punishment

Alrigghtythen

El_Bee wrote: »

A better analogy would be the Gardai being Nurses and Orderlies in A&E and the Judges being Doctors who send people home to die. Still doesn't quite work.... the point is, Gardai spend x amount of time investigating a crime, building evidence and making an arrest, they bring the criminal before a juudge and it's "he's had a difficult home life, he has learning difficulties (because left school at 14), is battling addiction" etc. etc. and he's outside the court waving at the Gards who brought him in half an hour later. There are endemic problems in the judiciary that need to be addressed, otherwise the Gardai are going to become more and more demoralized, if that's even possible.

They are paid to investigate, you might have an argument if they were paid per conviction secured

Alrigghtythen

DublinWriter wrote: »

...and this system appeared to work effectively from 2001 to 2009 until the whole thing went on pulse in 2010. This, a IT system, that reportedly cost €130 million back in the day.

The usual jaded cries of "oh the guards are so corrupt" really doesn't help. The JLO scheme appears to have been functioning correctly between 2001 and 2009 and the guards were doing their job.

Why would displinary action be discussed if its all the computers fault?


Commissioner Harris was asked by members of the Policing Authority today about possible disciplinary action for the more than 3,000 gardaí who failed to follow-up on cases when a referral came back.

“I can’t say this s about 3,400 gardaí alone, this is a supervision process as well,” he said,

He said these cases are being looked at in closer detail now and he will have to see if disciplinary action is consideration.

James Brown

gctest50 wrote: »

If your over the limit yer over it

Explain why some people should get special treatment

People having a quick hair-of-the-dog ?


.

I believe if you're a celebrity you do or a politician they don't like they'll go above and beyond, (Clare Daly, Paul Murphy).

gctest50

El_Bee wrote: »

You fix a severed artery before a broken bone.

Do think the limit should not apply between say 8am and 11am ?



Might give enough time to stock up on the Lady-petrol*



*prosecco

yoke

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

They are paid to investigate, you might have an argument if they were paid per conviction secured

They might be paid to investigate, but they are still human.
Do you not think they’d get demoralised if the fruits of their work are thrown out the window back at them all the time, in the form of the judicial system not following up with any real punishment?
Doesn’t have to be prison - could be something as simple as a dole reduction or putting them at the bottom of the housing list until reparations are paid to the victim. After all, one of the main reasons for having a generous welfare system (which I fully support) is to ensure that no one has to turn to a life of crime... that’s obviously not worked for someone with 100 convictions

If a juvenile referral has been made, then the investigation has already been done & the offender identified.
Obviously.

Peter Flynt

Are Garda Traffic core on commission for number of road prosecutions?

They seem to be everywhere yet there are never Gardai on the beat. . .

randd1

bubblypop wrote: »

If a juvenile referral has been made, then the investigation has already been done & the offender identified.
Obviously.

Exactly. Even at that what’s the point in going for prosecution? Juveniles never get done for anything by the Courts, unless it’s murder.

Why anyone would be a Guard is beyond me. I can’t think of any other job where you’re hounded over every little thing you might have missed despite the thousand of things you didn’t, hounded for quite frankly moronic laws or procedures handed down by superiors or politicians that couldn’t possibly work, and hounded even more for actually doing your job.

archer22

No resources left for all that...too busy persecuting whistleblowers, bugging GSOC and looking for pay rises.

Investigating crime would only distract the lads from the serious work.

DublinWriter

bubblypop wrote: »

If a juvenile referral has been made, then the investigation has already been done & the offender identified.
Obviously.

Not really. If the JLO decide that the juvenile is a recidivist and they deem he/she wouldn't benefit from intervention, then it's back to the original guard for prosecution under the criminal system.

It's this chain of communication that appears to have broken down once the procedure went on the pulse system in 2010.

gctest50

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I believe if you're a celebrity you do or a politician they don't like they'll go above and beyond, (Clare Daly, Paul Murphy).

She was stopped after performing an illegal right turn and smelled of whiskey :


Independent TD Clare Daly has said she had a “hot whiskey” before being stopped by gardaí on suspicion of drink-driving after she performed an illegal turn on a road in Dublin last night.

DublinWriter

DublinWriter wrote: »

Not really. If the JLO decide that the juvenile is a recidivist and they deem he/she wouldn't benefit from intervention, then it's back to the original guard for prosecution under the criminal system.

It's this chain of communication that appears to have broken down once the procedure went on the pulse system in 2010.

Yes agreed.
But for the benefit of posters who seem to think that Gardai did nothing. They have investigated the crime, they have identified the offender & then have sent a juvenile referral.
Which is their job.

Peter Flynt

gctest50 wrote: »

She was stopped after performing an illegal right turn and smelled of whiskey :


Independent TD Clare Daly has said she had a “hot whiskey” before being stopped by gardaí on suspicion of drink-driving after she performed an illegal turn on a road in Dublin last night.

She was later cleared although it was nice of the Gardai to leak it to the media so everyone found out before she was cleared.

opfleet

Peter Flynt wrote: »

In December my mother had her purse stolen by a dodgy tradesman who entered her home. €350 was stolen. This was reported to AGS twice with the phone number of the person who stole it. Statements were provided.

They did nothing.

Last week I was flagged down by a member of AGS driving in a cycle lane. He claimed he saw me with my mobile in my hand. I denied that I had. He asked to see my drivers licence and proceeded to prosecute. 3 penalty points and a €65 fine.

That's the police force we have.

Nothing more than a revenue raising arm of the state. The fact that their Twitter name is @GardaTraffic pretty much says it all.

Just because the offender wasn't identified does not mean "they did nothing"..A high rate of crimes like this go unsolved because there is no cctv, fingerprints, etc. A phone number is worth feck all. Very few avenues to investigate in these kind of situations. As for the traffic offence that you got nailed for, what has that got to do with anything? You admitted to driving in a cycle lane which is illegal. There is a huge sense of entitlement in this country that people feel they can drive without insurance, tax or park on a footpath instead of walking for 5 minutes. They would not have "revenue" to collect if people just obeyed the law. While these may seem like a bit of an insult, people become victims because of their own carelessness. I would not invite a tradesman into my house who was not locally known.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

The numbers are obviously shocking but I am absolutely loving Drew Harris. Seems to take no ****e and calls it like it is. The contrast between him and the previous 2 clowns is pretty stark.

Peter Flynt

opfleet wrote: »

Just because the offender wasn't identified does not mean "they did nothing"..A high rate of crimes like this go unsolved because there is no cctv, fingerprints, etc. A phone number is worth feck all. Very few avenues to investigate in these kind of situations. As for the traffic offence that you got nailed for, what has that got to do with anything? You admitted to driving in a cycle lane which is illegal. There is a huge sense of entitlement in this country that people feel they can drive without insurance, tax or park on a footpath instead of walking for 5 minutes. They would not have "revenue" to collect if people just obeyed the law. While these may seem like a bit of an insult, people become victims because of their own carelessness. I would not invite a tradesman into my house who was not locally known.

It was the Garda driving in the cycle lane in the middle of rush hour.

DEFTLEFTHAND

It all starts in the home.
Parents have a lot to answer for. Especially fathers, too many are absent from their sons lives.


It's a common factor in youth crime seen the world over.

suicide_circus

I don't think Commissioner Harris is gonna get any facebuke friend requests from his colleagues.

DEFTLEFTHAND

randd1 wrote: »

Exactly. Even at that what’s the point in going for prosecution? Juveniles never get done for anything by the Courts, unless it’s murder.

Why anyone would be a Guard is beyond me. I can’t think of any other job where you’re hounded over every little thing you might have missed despite the thousand of things you didn’t, hounded for quite frankly moronic laws or procedures handed down by superiors or politicians that couldn’t possibly work, and hounded even more for actually doing your job.

I've a brother who's just a year into it.

It's a really difficult job, he's meeting the lowest of the low. He had a woman ringing the station last week because her washing machine wouldn't turn on.


Crap money, unsociable hrs, incompetent superiors, it just seems like a nightmare.

mgn

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I've a brother who's just a year into it.

It's a really difficult job, he's meeting the lowest of the low. He had a woman ringing the station last week because her washing machine wouldn't turn on.


Crap money, unsociable hrs, incompetent superiors, it just seems like a nightmare.

Why did he join them so.He new what the pay was like and the unsociable hours, what did he expect it to like.

El_Bee

mgn wrote: »

Why did he join them so.He new what the pay was like and the unsociable hours, what did he expect it to like.

It's obviously his vocation, some people want to help the community, the small size of the force in general show us that these people are an extreme minority unfortunately.

tomoliver

How do the numbers compare internationally?

Peter Flynt

El_Bee wrote: »

It's obviously his vocation, some people want to help the community, the small size of the force in general show us that these people are an extreme minority unfortunately.

I'm sure there are many decent and noble members of AGS, like your brother, who see their role as a vocation and duty and are respectful of their community.

I don't see the police interacting with their communities any longer. Maybe I'm thinking there was a bygone age when they did? But I don't recall that to have ever been the case.

The police are also unusual in Ireland. They tend to stick together, even when off duty. I can also say that the most arrogant people I've ever met are members of AGS.

What entitles them to this arrogance is not understandable. . .

archer22

tomoliver wrote: »

How do the numbers compare internationally?

Similar to Somalia

Taylor365

Same old same old.

Guards do nothin, sentencing is light, scum get away with murder, etc.


And we go round and round!