Pete Doherty: Greatest Songwriter of His Generation?

The Golden Miller

Was never a huge Doherty, Libertines or Babyshambles fan, quite the opposite, overlooked them for years. Heard most of the albums and was never blown away. Then came across a Babyshambles b-side, "Beg, Steal or Borrow" and the lyrics sort of struck me. Went back through alot of his back catalogue, and purely from a lyrics point of view, this guy is amazing. Strip a song back, give him an acoustic guitar, put him up against any other songwriter and tell them to come up with an original song, and he'll best them imo. It's a shame his talent has been overlooked in favour of a mutilated media personality. The guy is a genius

DEFTLEFTHAND

Shotter's Nation is a genuinely good album.

I haven't really kept up with his career though, he seemed to fade into obscurity in recent yrs.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Lost art of murder is a great acoustic track I remember from him.

AllForIt

Elton John is one of the greatest lyricists ever. Even if you don't like his music which I think was great especially in the early 80's, he is one artist who when he sings I pay attention to the lyrics where otherwise I'd ordinarily pay more attention to the melody, which is the most important part of course.

refusetolose

he's a lyrical genius
the recent libertines album is actually really good too
great live band also

theguzman

He's a sick druggie junkie piece of filth, in a lot of countries he'd have been executed, deserves no attention or praise for sure.

Bowlardo

U can’t stand me now will stand the rest of time

refusetolose

theguzman wrote: »

He's a sick druggie junkie piece of filth, in a lot of countries he'd have been executed, deserves no attention or praise for sure.

oh look, a person that reads The Sun

refusetolose

The truth here gets distorted
The wall scrapings get snorted
I'm welcome back if I give up crack
But you gave me my first pipe anyway

:pac::pac:

mzungu

theguzman wrote: »

He's a sick druggie junkie piece of filth, in a lot of countries he'd have been executed, deserves no attention or praise for sure.

Jaysus, a bit harsh, no? The guy has never done anything to warrant being called that. He is most likely a pleasant chap and a lot of people seem to think he is also.

Back on topic, his music was never my thing so I would not call him the greatest of his generation.

refusetolose

mzungu wrote: »

Jaysus, a bit harsh, no? The guy has never done anything to warrant being called that. He is most likely a pleasant chap which a lot of people think he is.

Back on topic, his music was never my thing so I would not call him the greatest of his generation.

he is actually pleasant (yes,i have met him, briefly )

Etc

He reminds me of Mark E. Smith, personal demons and ingenuity with music, but he's a spent force, obviously he'll keep the Libertines going, it's a cash cow

DaithiMa

I saw BabyShambles the first time they played in Ibiza in Bar M. Didn't really know much about him at the time bar he was with Kate Moss (she was there). The soundcheck he was amazing, but he was off his face for the gig and looked like he might puke on more than one occasion.

Have since become a massive fan of his stuff. As the OP says his lyrics are quality. And those calling him a dirty junkie, some of the best music has been created by artists on drugs.

Bowie, Lennon/McCartney, Richards/Jagger, Brian Wilson to name a few.

Robert McGrath

AllForIt wrote: »

Elton John is one of the greatest lyricists ever. Even if you don't like his music which I think was great especially in the early 80's, he is one artist who when he sings I pay attention to the lyrics where otherwise I'd ordinarily pay more attention to the melody, which is the most important part of course.

This is a joke, right?

ceadaoin.

AllForIt wrote: »

Elton John is one of the greatest lyricists ever. Even if you don't like his music which I think was great especially in the early 80's, he is one artist who when he sings I pay attention to the lyrics where otherwise I'd ordinarily pay more attention to the melody, which is the most important part of course.

I thought all his songs were written by Bernie taupin?

Dante

AllForIt wrote: »

Elton John is one of the greatest lyricists ever. Even if you don't like his music which I think was great especially in the early 80's, he is one artist who when he sings I pay attention to the lyrics where otherwise I'd ordinarily pay more attention to the melody, which is the most important part of course.

Well played sir.

YFlyer

AllForIt wrote: »

Elton John is one of the greatest lyricists ever. Even if you don't like his music which I think was great especially in the early 80's, he is one artist who when he sings I pay attention to the lyrics where otherwise I'd ordinarily pay more attention to the melody, which is the most important part of course.

Was it Bernie that would come up with the melody and Elton would put the lyrics to it?

PARlance

What a Waster

refusetolose

funnily enough pete and elton played together :pac:

Skylinehead

theguzman wrote: »

He's a sick druggie junkie piece of filth, in a lot of countries he'd have been executed, deserves no attention or praise for sure.

Go live in one of those countries then.

Joe_ Public

Elton John was pretty great up to around 78, passable to around 82, best avoided after that. Bernie Taupin did write most of the lyrics.

YFlyer

YFlyer wrote: »

Was it Bernie that would come up with the melody and Elton would put the lyrics to it?

Okay it was the other way around. This set up was claimed to be more difficult to execute. According to documentary on Sky Arts anyway.

Ipso

He's the lyrical Sidney James.

FatherTed

Who now?

sk8erboii

The Golden Miller wrote: »

.

https://youtu.be/3KzK5d4jXKM

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

https://archive.org/details/WRC_20091119_082823_Late_Night_With_Jimmy_Fallon/start/120/end/180

Rubberchikken

pete Doherty- fgs the term tosser was dreamt up especially for him.
talent passed him by.

AllForIt

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I thought all his songs were written by Bernie taupin?

I didn't know that. Looking into it it seems your are right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Taupin
Looks like I've given him too much credit where it wasn't deserved.

Captain Red Beard

mzungu wrote: »

Jaysus, a bit harsh, no? The guy has never done anything to warrant being called that. He is most likely a pleasant chap and a lot of people seem to think he is also.

Back on topic, his music was never my thing so I would not call him the greatest of his generation.

I wouldn't think it's a bit harsh. He's been known to take impressionable young girls home with him, read them poetry and then shoot them full of heroin. He's been investigated for doing this in the past, with a handful of overdoses being blamed on him.

pleas advice

Amy Winehouse was a great lyricist as well, around the same age, same problems as Pete...

Well sometimes I go out by myself
And I look across the water

refusetolose

pleas advice wrote: »

Amy Winehouse was a great lyricist as well, around the same age, same problems as Pete...

Well sometimes I go out by myself
And I look across the water

she didn't write that though :pac:

pleas advice

Jay-Z though, he can pen a lyric

KungPao

Isn’t he known as Peter Doherty/Dockerty now?

Circuital

"The stale chips are up and the hope stakes are down"...

A brilliant lyricist, but in my opinion not many people of late can touch Alex Turner for lyrics.

CrankyHaus

pleas advice wrote: »

Amy Winehouse was a great lyricist as well, around the same age, same problems as Pete...

Well sometimes I go out by myself
And I look across the water

Wasn't that written by The Zutons?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I'd say pretty much any track off The Libertines will hold up lyrically. In retrospect their whole media image was pretty cringe and they um, didn't try to hide their influences, to put it politely but I lapped all that up at the time. Every time I go back to that album especially I expect to have outgrown it or find it hasn't aged well or whatever but nope, still class.

I so vividly remember listening to it for the first time.

The Tetrarch

I think he falls into the George Best, Alex Higgins group, the wasted talent that could have been great, but let's call them the greatest anyway ahead of the grafters with great talent who also worked hard.

Birneybau

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Elton John was pretty great up to around 78, passable to around 82, best avoided after that. Bernie Taupin did write most of the lyrics.

Didn't think he was THAT old

humberklog

AllForIt wrote: »

Elton John is one of the greatest lyricists ever. Even if you don't like his music which I think was great especially in the early 80's, he is one artist who when he sings I pay attention to the lyrics where otherwise I'd ordinarily pay more attention to the melody, which is the most important part of course.

Elton John would provide the music but Bernie Taupin wrote the lyrics for the majority of their songs.

**Edited to say I see this point has already been made.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

As a person, he’s kind of repulsive to me. Just to look at. I’m not sure why. He just gives me the heebie jeebies.

But I do enjoy some of his music and think he is quite talented.

oneilla

mzungu wrote: »

Jaysus, a bit harsh, no? The guy has never done anything to warrant being called that. He is most likely a pleasant chap and a lot of people seem to think he is also.

Back on topic, his music was never my thing so I would not call him the greatest of his generation.

Have a read into the death of Mark Blanco:

Less than six months after his death, Doherty audaciously returned to where Mark Blanco died, to record a promotional video for the Babyshambles song "The Lost Art of Murder", a reference to the 1827 essay On Murder Considered as One of the Fine Arts, by Thomas De Quincey – one of Blanco's favourite writers.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/3ky4yb/a-death-at-a-pete-doherty-party-is-still-unexplained

Wasn't too pushed on the libertines or babyshambles.. thought he was a bit of a tit with the media etc..

But 'Grace/Wastelands' is an absolutely amazing album.. Like, absolutely unbelievably good..

So.. maybe..

sweetie

Apparently he has substituted his love of hard drugs for one of hash browns and pork products:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-45264871

AllGunsBlazing

Poor man's Shane MacGowan.

mzungu

Captain Red Beard wrote: »

I wouldn't think it's a bit harsh. He's been known to take impressionable young girls home with him, read them poetry and then shoot them full of heroin. He's been investigated for doing this in the past, with a handful of overdoses being blamed on him.

oneilla wrote: »

Have a read into the death of Mark Blanco:



https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/3ky4yb/a-death-at-a-pete-doherty-party-is-still-unexplained

Ok. I didn't know anything about either of the above (or indeed any of what he gets up to outside of being a regular drug user).

Laois_Man

Every time anyone mentions Pete Doherty, I can't help but think of his very uncomfortable appearance on The Late Late Show in the Pat Kenny days when he got pissed off coz the only thing Pat knew about him was the drugs stories.

He begins to get ratty after 6 minutes and starts shuffling in is seat

Starts to get really ratty on about 8 minutes and is completely tuning out

By about 10 minutes he's complaining that plastic Pat can't name any of his songs

By the end, he's literally running off stage to get away from Pat Kenny

And just to add to it all - there was the annoying super-fan heckling from the audience from the very start

I think it was the same night Pat infamously tore up the Late Late Toys Show tickets and Chris de Burgh made a show of him making a speech about Pat's Critics and how hard the bob is!

facehugger99

AllForIt wrote: »

Elton John is one of the greatest lyricists ever. Even if you don't like his music which I think was great especially in the early 80's, he is one artist who when he sings I pay attention to the lyrics where otherwise I'd ordinarily pay more attention to the melody, which is the most important part of course.

pleas advice wrote: »

Amy Winehouse was a great lyricist as well, around the same age, same problems as Pete...

Well sometimes I go out by myself
And I look across the water

I can't tell if people are taking the piss or not on this thread.

Anyway, the correct answer is obviously Bob Dylan followed closely by David Bowie.

refusetolose

Laois_Man wrote: »

Every time anyone mentions Pete Doherty, I can't help but think of his very uncomfortable appearance on The Late Late Show in the Pat Kenny days when he got pissed off coz the only thing Pat knew about him was the drugs stories.

He begins to get ratty after 6 minutes and starts shuffling in is seat

Starts to get really ratty on about 8 minutes and is completely tuning out

By about 10 minutes he's complaining that plastic Pat can't name any of his songs

By the end, he's literally running off stage to get away from Pat Kenny

And just to add to it all - there was the annoying super-fan heckling from the audience from the very start

I think it was the same night Pat infamously tore up the Late Late Toys Show tickets and Chris de Burgh made a show of him making a speech about Pat's Critics and how hard the bob is!

yeah he was in dublin that day giving a lecture in trinity college
think pat would mention it? not a chance

refusetolose

facehugger99 wrote: »

I can't tell if people are taking the piss or not on this thread.

Anyway, the correct answer is obviously Bob Dylan followed closely by David Bowie.

different generation

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

facehugger99 wrote: »

I can't tell if people are taking the piss or not on this thread.

Anyway, the correct answer is obviously Bob Dylan followed closely by David Bowie.

Nobel prize, alright, maybe. But I draw the line at placing Dylan in Doherty's generation :pac:

Bit since we're doing this I nominate Leonard Cohen!

One eyed Jack

Some good songs certainly, but “Greatest Songwriter of his Generation” is a stretch. He did inspire one of my favourite songwriter/artists though of his generation -

"Poison Prince" is the first single from Scottish singer-songwriter Amy MacDonald's debut album, This Is the Life, and charted at number 136 on the UK Singles Chart in 2007. Its initial limited release was on 7 May 2007, and it was later re-released 19 May 2008. The lyrics were based on the life of Babyshambles and Libertines singer Pete Doherty, and were written as an ode to the troubled musician.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhDTVq8C-Yc