Whats the Point Reporting Accident?

detones

So long story short. Had a collision with a car last night commuting home on Dorset st. Not going to go into details of accident but driver was totally at fault. Myself and a friend who was cycling behind me where involved in the collision. The driver had no English. We got his insurance details and picked ourselves up and limped home another 25k or so unfortunately. I sustained a blow to my right leg and its sore today and its tough enough to walk, I had it checked out and it just bad bruising.

Anyway I'm not out of pocket as my insurance covers the medical cost. My bike is grand. I decided to report the accident as i thought it was the right thing to do. Found the process a bit of let down. Essentially I was told unless I want to pursue criminal charges the Guards don't seem interested. I thought the information I gave would be kept on file or noted or even a basic check done to see if the car was insured etc involved in other accidents. It was just left that the Garda I reported it to would call me in a couple of days to see if I still wanted to pursue it.

Does anybody know what is meant to happen when you report an accident? Surely its important to record these incidents even if no criminal charges are pursued.

schemingbohemia

This unfortunately is the standard AGS response, they do everything to try and put you off pursuing it.
There is generally no follow up, everything is down to one individual Garda so if they're not in work you have to call back and due to their shift patterns that can be difficult to arrange a meeting.
Unless you get really lucky with the Garda you're dealing with it will likely be hugely frustrating and lead to nothing. No input into PULSE from what I could see, god help you if you forget the name of the Garda you were dealing with as it just disappears into the ether (as happened with me).

ED E

If the driver is at fault why are you giving him a pass? 3pts is how this is recorded.

gordongekko

It's also informs public policy. The stats are looked at a policy decisions are made based in part of these stats

_Brian

Best report it to the drivers insurance company.
The company will want to know this as this person is a greater risk than a good driver and so should be paying more premium.

Fining him via increased premium is a method of teaching the driver to be more careful in future.

magicbastarder

does that work though? if the insurance company are informed of such an incident and there's no accompanying garda report, surely they can't act on it without opening up the system to abuse. otherwise people would be making spurious grudge reports.

_Brian

Policy holder will be contacted by insurance company and will have to explain.

Presume you have photos etc as evidence of the accident to support your position. Insurance company will jump at chance to stiff policy holder with increased policy prices. They don’t rely on AGS reports.

magicbastarder

cancel the policy, move to a different insurer - if no actual claim is made, can it affect your NCB?

tomoliver

_Brian wrote: »

Policy holder will be contacted by insurance company and will have to explain.

Presume you have photos etc as evidence of the accident to support your position. Insurance company will jump at chance to stiff policy holder with increased policy prices. They don’t rely on AGS reports.

there would have to be a claim involved

they wont just jack up the insurance like that

tomoliver

magicbastarder wrote: »

cancel the policy, move to a different insurer - if no actual claim is made, can it affect your NCB?

the driver can land in trouble if he doesn't report the accident to his insurer


if for example the cyclist claims down the line and the accident isn't reported ,the driver may have his policy cancelled

buffalo

I'm in a similar frame of mind. I have four incidents from a two week period in November that I haven't bothered to report to Trafficwatch, because I just don't think there's any point. One was very deliberate (came back to explain why he'd done it), one was aggressive, and the other two were completely reckless.

The effort of the phone call is actually too much for the chance of pay-off with any of those drivers getting an actual punishment.

Wishbone Ash

detones wrote: »

...Does anybody know what is meant to happen when you report an accident? Surely its important to record these incidents even if no criminal charges are pursued.

I've been in 3 accidents where I've been injured and I don't recall any difficulty or disinterest from AGS. I thought it was a legal requirement to report any accident where there is any personal injury.

_Brian wrote: »

... Insurance company will jump at chance to stiff policy holder with increased policy prices....

WTF? There is competition in the motor insurance market. As has been said, why would any company 'stiff' a customer with no claim against them. They'd just go to someone else.

tomoliver

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I've been in 3 accidents where I've been injured and I don't recall any difficulty or disinterest from AGS. I thought it was a legal requirement to report any accident where there is any personal injury.

WTF? There is competition in the motor insurance market. As has been said, why would any company 'stiff' a customer with no claim against them. They'd just go to someone else.

i'm not sure what it's like in the city but if i saw dangerous driving down here and reported it the driver would most likely be getting a visit from the gards imo

thats the way things work out the country anyways

detones

ED E wrote: »

If the driver is at fault why are you giving him a pass? 3pts is how this is recorded.

If that's the case it's worth considering. They didn't really explain what was meant by taking a case against him. In fact the whole interaction was a bit humiliating to be honest. Having to give out personal details in a cramped packed public counter to a less than helpful Gaurd. Everyone hearing every detail of my crash and where I was injured. I have no interest in any personal reimbursement. I just want to ensure this lad isn't a danger out there and ends up seriously injuring or killing someone.

ED E

detones wrote: »

If that's the case it's worth considering. They didn't really explain what was meant by taking a case against him. In fact the whole interaction was a bit humiliating to be honest. Having to give out personal details in a cramped packed public counter to a less than helpful Gaurd. Everyone hearing every detail of my crash and where I was injured. I have no interest in any personal reimbursement. I just want to ensure this lad isn't a danger out there and ends up seriously injuring or killing someone.

Call Traffic Watch. Dont do it at lunchtime or end of shift (7-8pm etc). Report it to a civilian in Castlebar.

The Garda assigned will then call you and invite you down to give a statement in an interview room. You can even prefill the statement form, I've attached it. Leave the member to fill in the particulars.

Most of the time they'll call the driver in and ask them to cop to it for an FCPN instead of going to court (1 pt becomes 3, 3 become 5 etc in court) and they'll see sense.

tomoliver

ED E wrote: »

Call Traffic Watch. Dont do it at lunchtime or end of shift (7-8pm etc). Report it to a civilian in Castlebar.

The Garda assigned will then call you and invite you down to give a statement in an interview room. You can even prefill the statement form, I've attached it. Leave the member to fill in the particulars.

Most of the time they'll call the driver in and ask them to cop to it for an FCPN instead of going to court (1 pt becomes 3, 3 become 5 etc in court) and they'll see sense.

be prepared for court when dealing the gardai

that's their business -charging people


it may not go that far but it can

Wishbone Ash

detones wrote: »

.... the whole interaction was a bit humiliating to be honest. Having to give out personal details in a cramped packed public counter ....

I'd agree with you there, not helped when the Garda concerned keeps asking you to repeat everything.

tomoliver wrote: »

be prepared for court when dealing the gardai

that's their business -charging people


it may not go that far but it can

I've been willing to go to court several times but the Gardai have always chickened out.

Don't know why you make it sound like the person has something to lose - it's not as if it were a civil matter.

Thud

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I've been willing to go to court several times but the Gardai have always chickened out.

Don't know why you make it sound like the person has something to lose - it's not as if it were a civil matter.

I have a close pass in the works at the moment (gave statement in station and with video footage) AGS seem keen to tell me it's unlikely to be strong enough in a court, car has no other reports against it (probably because any previous incidents got this same treatment) and them giving the driver a warning should suffice.....it kinda puts you off pushing for court when they seem very reluctant and tell you it won't succeed.

You'd wonder how many of these get pushed back and how many people don't bother reporting after the first experience with AGS

seamus

magicbastarder wrote: »

does that work though? if the insurance company are informed of such an incident and there's no accompanying garda report, surely they can't act on it without opening up the system to abuse. otherwise people would be making spurious grudge reports.

It does indeed work. Insurance companies treat these things on a good faith basis. They'll take your details, run a check to see if you have any other claims in the last few years (all the insurance companies have a massive shared database), realise that you're not a piss taker and provided that the claim isn't huge (usually less than a grand), they'll just settle it to make it go away.

A few years back my wife came out of the shops to find a car basically parked on top of hers. Bit of scuffing to the bumper, nothing crazy. She waited around for 20 minutes, no sign of the other driver.

So she took the insurance details & rang the insurance company who told her to take some photos and go get a quote. Bingo-bango, damage fixed, insurance company paid up.

People always seem shocked when I tell the story, but realistically insurance companies have the power to do this - i.e. pay out without even contacting the policyholder - and they will pay up more often than not.

mattser

Such an array of responses to the OP. Just shows that the general public haven't a clue, ( mods and all ), when it comes to law.

detones

mattser wrote: »

Such an array of responses to the OP. Just shows that the general public haven't a clue, ( mods and all ), when it comes to law.

Could you please enlighten us all then

magicbastarder

mattser wrote: »

Just shows that the general public haven't a clue, ( mods and all )

just an FYI; mods are not chosen based on their knowledge of AGS procedures, the selection process is purely based on sex appeal.

What Username Guidelines

Thud wrote: »

You'd wonder how many of these get pushed back and how many people don't bother reporting after the first experience with AGS

I've had poor experiences every time, and not an intent to put others off, but I don't bother anymore. The first couple of TrafficWatch reports (close passes and one road rage incident with spitting involved) were replied to very quickly by local stations, but each call had a heavy tone of "I don't care and I'm just ticking a box by calling you" with lots of "but you know you'll have to go to court" which I read as the Garda saying "Please, I don't want to go to court too".

Finally, I had a more serious incident where I was knocked down by a driver making an illegal turn without indicating or checking mirrors, with some damage done to the bike. All on camera. Four Gardai arrived about 1.5hrs after it happened and stood around for a bit. Wouldnt watch the footage. Civil matter for damages. Suggested maybe I report it via TrafficWatch due to illegal turn, no indicating, etc.. "Ah sure it'll just come back to us" he said with a smile. Almost seemed proud that he didn't care.

maldondo

OP, this is a road traffic accident and should be treated the same way you would if you were in a car or indeed a pedestrian. You've been injured through no fault of your own and you should inform the drivers insurance company so that you can be compensated for any losses you incur.

The nature of these types of injuries is that sometimes its not until the next couple of days that you realise there's a problem or even weeks or months down the line.

You can report the incident to the insurers without initiating a claim right now but it leaves the door open for you to do so.

Eamonnator

mattser wrote: »

Such an array of responses to the OP. Just shows that the general public haven't a clue, ( mods and all ), when it comes to law.

I was a Garda for 30 years, I'm retired a number of years, I had quite a lot of experience investigating traffic collisions.
I was going to make a few observations in this thread, but then decided, I just couldn't be arsed.

tomoliver

Eamonnator wrote: »

I was a Garda for 30 years, I'm retired a number of years, I had quite a lot of experience investigating traffic collisions.
I was going to make a few observations in this thread, but then decided, I just couldn't be arsed.

ok thanks for the insight

ford2600

The primary reason for reporting would be in case a loss became apparent some time after the accident, in that you then have an independent verification of accident having occurred.

If it transpires that driver was uninsured you are not covered under MIBI scheme if you haven't reported it to Gardai within a very narrow time frame.

I've dealt a lot with Gardai over a 20 yr plus period. In that time the level of service provided has plummeted. For example in recent times in a number of serious cases of very obvious insurance fraud I've been met with disinterest/silence despite repeated correspondence from insurance company/solicitor demanding engagement and in some cases even a reply.

Recently I've been in contact with a couple of PSNI officers and was reminded of the way things used to be.


The reasons we got there are complicated I would think and fixing it won't be easy but its critical to do if we are to have a properly functioning republic.

average_runner

Thud wrote: »

I have a close pass in the works at the moment (gave statement in station and with video footage) AGS seem keen to tell me it's unlikely to be strong enough in a court, car has no other reports against it (probably because any previous incidents got this same treatment) and them giving the driver a warning should suffice.....it kinda puts you off pushing for court when they seem very reluctant and tell you it won't succeed.

You'd wonder how many of these get pushed back and how many people don't bother reporting after the first experience with AGS

A court appearance for a close pass ? Doubt it will ever happen.
Maybe some penalty points.

tomoliver

ford2600 wrote: »

The primary reason for reporting would be in case a loss became apparent some time after the accident, in that you then have an independent verification of accident having occurred.

If it transpires that driver was uninsured you are not covered under MIBI scheme if you haven't reported it to Gardai within a very narrow time frame.

I've dealt a lot with Gardai over a 20 yr plus period. In that time the level of service provided has plummeted. For example in recent times in a number of serious cases of very obvious insurance fraud I've been met with disinterest/silence despite repeated correspondence from insurance company/solicitor demanding engagement and in some cases even a reply.

Recently I've been in contact with a couple of PSNI officers and was reminded of the way things used to be.


The reasons we got there are complicated I would think and fixing it won't be easy but its critical to do if we are to have a properly functioning republic.

Gardai staffing levels are threadbare down here in fairness-don't know how it compares up north

then you have the useless judicial system and paperwork on top of that


if nobodys going to be charged or prosecuted as is often the case following a complaint i can see why gards can't be bothered

Thud

average_runner wrote: »

A court appearance for a close pass ? Doubt it will ever happen.
Maybe some penalty points.

that wasn't an option as far as i was made aware, it would have to go to court for that

average_runner

Thud wrote: »

that wasn't an option as far as i was made aware, it would have to go to court for that

To me that's a waste of resources and court time, as there is a far more serious crimes that need court time.

But I do believe once there is evidence proving the person did the close pass, just give them pts on their license.

But we don't do anything smart in this country.

Thud

average_runner wrote: »

To me that's a waste of resources and court time, as there is a far more serious crimes that need court time.

But I do believe once there is evidence proving the person did the close pass, just give them pts on their license.

But we don't do anything smart in this country.

Agreed.
I was also told it is hard to gauge distances from the camera footage (he/she was still inside white line on narrow road after passing me) so it would be my word versus theirs and the MPD was not law so he/she would have to be prosecuted under another road traffic offence if it came to that(driving with undue caution or dangerous driving)

greenspurs

Eamonnator wrote: »

I was a Garda for 30 years, I'm retired a number of years, I had quite a lot of experience investigating traffic collisions.
I was going to make a few observations in this thread, but then decided, I just couldn't be arsed.

That really helps cyclists opinions of an GS on here !!! :rolleyes:

jjpep

Eamonnator wrote: »

I was a Garda for 30 years, I'm retired a number of years, I had quite a lot of experience investigating traffic collisions.
I was going to make a few observations in this thread, but then decided, I just couldn't be arsed.

So retired cops are about as useful as currently working cops then. What a surprise.

TriFirst

Eamonnator wrote: »

I was a Garda for 30 years, I'm retired a number of years, I had quite a lot of experience investigating traffic collisions.
I was going to make a few observations in this thread, but then decided, I just couldn't be arsed.

Yes that seems to be the motto of the gardai when it comes to reporting of road traffic offences, so your statement is not exceptional.

Certainly it was my own experience when i was the victim of a hit and run on Dame street one lunchtime. I had dozens of witnesses and yet the garda that arrived on scene could not have been more disinterested given that I had only suffered a knock and some bruises. I gave him the reg of the car, the make and model and he told me he would act on it. What followed was farcical in the extreme. I spent several weeks making numerous phone calls trying chasing down the aforementioned garda to find out if they had located the driver. To say he was nonchalant was an exaggeration. You might say he couldnt be arsed. Thankfully I wasnt injured but given that the city centre is covered in cctv cameras its inconceivable to me that the incident wasnt caught on camera or at least the car could have been traced, if the public servant in question had been bothered to actully do his job. I suppose the best way to go is to lawyer up, but is that feasible for every incident when on the bike ?

billyhead

I was hit by a car where the driver drove straight out of a junction without paying heed to me going straight on and I went over the front bonnet as I was traveling at speed. Went to be checked over by the GP and all was fine in terms of no broken bones (only superficial wounds i.e road rash and a busted nose. The women whom hit me drove me to the local doctor and said to me she would wait for me in the waiting room and cover any medical bills. When I was released from the GP she was nowhere to be seen so I ended up having to pay the bill myself. The front wheel on my bike was buckled aswell which added to the cost. I went to report it to the local Gardai and they had no interest whatsoever. I told them everything that happened and due to the shock of the accident and what I thought was genuine remorse by the women for causing it I didn't take the reg plate number thus they didn't want to know. I asked about CCTV on the street and they said they would follow up with it and get back to me however I never heard from then again.:(

koutoubia

I just wanna jump in here and say ,in defence of AGS, that on the two occasions I had to deal with them about a cycling/car incident involving myself they simply couldnt have been better.
One was almost annoyed that I hadnt reported the incident immediatley .
The other went way beyond what I expected to track down a car that they passenger had reached out and punched my arse as it passed.
The garda followed up and then informed me a few weeks later that the driver was receiving penalty points for dangerous driving.
The Garda not being arsed is not my experience ......just to balance the argument.


I am not a member of AGS!

droidus

There are decent Guards who will do a decent, diligent job, in many cases going well above the call of duty to ensure fair treatment of citizens, there's decent Guards who've been ground down by the job and the system and don't see the point of pursuing minor incidents and there's Guards who are complete scumbags and just don't give a f**k.

The problem is that you never know which category you're going to encounter when you make a complaint as systemic problems means there's a lack of accountability & transparency resulting in a lack of consistency with how cases are handled. This is compounded by the general chaos of the criminal justice system and wider attitudes towards cycling and driving in society.

My experience with traffic watch has generally been good, and my advice would be to report. Personally I feel like its an obligation, as the driver who gives you a few cuts and bruises might kill the next cyclist.

What would be useful is a list of stations where these driving complaints are taken more seriously.

What Username Guidelines

koutoubia wrote: »

I just wanna jump in here and say ,in defence of AGS, that on the two occasions I had to deal with them about a cycling/car incident involving myself they simply couldnt have been better.
One was almost annoyed that I hadnt reported the incident immediatley .
The other went way beyond what I expected to track down a car that they passenger had reached out and punched my arse as it passed.
The garda followed up and then informed me a few weeks later that the driver was receiving penalty points for dangerous driving.
The Garda not being arsed is not my experience ......just to balance the argument.


I am not a member of AGS!

There’s hope! Thanks for that

What Username Guidelines

droidus wrote: »

What would be useful is a list of stations where these driving complaints are taken more seriously.

Unfortunately it goes to the next available Garda at the station which covers the area in which the incident happened. So the list may be only useful to decide where to report this stuff.

It wasn’t about a particular incident, but I had a great chat with a Garda on a bike from Terenure station who seemed like he’d be a good one to get, seemed clued in, experienced and motivated. My own poor experience was with 4 gardai from Rathmines. But neither represent the rest of the station, good or bad. And I’m guessing different areas deal with different levels of crime, so a close pass in an area where f-all else happens might be jumped on, whereas a close pass on halloween night in an area with high levels of antisocial behaviour might get you laughed out of the station.

Mc Love

Similar story on this thread:

https://twitter.com/LucButtons/status/1085487750298697729?s=20

check_six

My last two efforts at reporting anything had odd outcomes. I was driving in both cases.

I saw a fellow in a black golf overtaking by ripping up the hard shoulder of the M50 at about 150kph after the toll bridge. Inevitably, he got stuck in traffic on the off ramp just ahead of me and I took a note of his plate. Thought it might be worth getting on to TrafficWatch as it was a particularly dodgy piece of driving. Turns out the plate belonged to a completely different car. Different colour, different make. So all routes ended there.

Another incident had a fellow run into my car and then try to drive off. I asked him not to, but he just fled the scene. I had a photo of the car, and a photo of the small dent he left. Guards tried to find him as he lived locally, but the address the car was registered to had some kind of typo on the system and they couldn't locate him.

So, in summary, we really need to push for number plates, and motor tax, and insurance, and a man walking in front with a flag for all bikes and cyclists. This will ensure that all future offences will be prosecuted successfully as so ably demonstrated by the two examples above.

Mercian Pro

A few thoughts based on "accidents" and close passes over the years:

Not all injuries show up in x-rays. One snapped tendon only started to hurt two months after a collision and was eventually diagnosed following an MRI. Luckily I hadn't settled with the driver's insurance company as they were still querying the value of my vintage Mercian.

Years later a very sympathetic Garda in Finglas explained her understanding of things when I went to report a bad close pass by a subsequently aggressive van driver. I was given the option of making a formal statement and the Superintendent would then decide whether to prosecute or not. The absence of video or third party evidence would probably result in a negative decision.
The alternative was to give a detailed report of what happened including the reg of the van with a view to calling in the driver. She recorded everything and I signed her notebook. Some months later she rang to tell me the driver accepted he was in the wrong and both he and his boss were highly apologetic. Had he not been, I still had the option of making a statement. When I asked whether there was any record of this she assured me that it had gone on the Pulse system the day I called in and that it would be available to any other Garda investigating any subsequent incident involving the driver. If that incident involved a court case, the record of a previous complaint would be admissible as evidence. She strongly urged me to report any other close passes or collisions.

Hope this helps answer your original question OP.

Shoco83

My dad got knocked of his bike last year and was out cold for a few mins. A witness called for an ambulance, when the guards came they said all the right stuff and we thought it would be looked after.

From then on the guards couldn’t have been more useless, so much so that the guard in charge said there were no witnesses to the accident on his report! It turns out he told her she could leave when the ambulance arrived, she asked if he needed her details and she was told no!

Lucky we were able to track her down and she gave a statement to a solicitor. There was some minor damage to the bike and he had a lot gear cut off him, that’s all he wants to get back. Probably should have contacted his insurance straight away

ED E

McCabe has proven that dysfunctional stations won't fix themselves. IMO that's severe professional misconduct and should be hilighted to GSOC.

tampopo

I was left-hooked by a taxi driver some time ago, knocking me off the bike, with a cut to the leg and some damage to the bike. I was able to get the Taxi number from the roof sign before they drove off without stopping.

Dialled 999 to an incompetent Garda who said they could not identify the driver from the roof sign! Went to local station, where I was fobbed off making a statement there and then as Garda claimed he was the only one in the station. Anyway, eventually I got to make a statement where the driver was identified by the roof sign and went to court.

A fine, with three months to pay, but no points as they pleaded the poor mouth.

ffs

#HitAndRunByAnyDescription

Ultimate Seduction

buffalo wrote: »

I'm in a similar frame of mind. I have four incidents from a two week period in November that I haven't bothered to report to Trafficwatch, because I just don't think there's any point. One was very deliberate (came back to explain why he'd done it), one was aggressive, and the other two were completely reckless.

The effort of the phone call is actually too much for the chance of pay-off with any of those drivers getting an actual punishment.

Four accidents in two months, including two in one week? None your fault?

Eamonnator

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Four accidents in two months, including two in one week? None your fault?

He said incidents not accidents.
Edit.
That reminds me of a Paul Simon song.

buffalo

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Four accidents in two months, including two in one week? None your fault?

Perhaps you should read the post again, as your understanding of the basic figures involved doesn't seem to be great! :pac:

Anyway, I'm not sure how I can be any way at fault for the behaviour of overtaking drivers? PM me and I'll send you links to the video footage, and you can tell me how I was at fault.

buffalo

Shoco83 wrote: »

My dad got knocked of his bike last year and was out cold for a few mins. A witness called for an ambulance, when the guards came they said all the right stuff and we thought it would be looked after.

From then on the guards couldn’t have been more useless, so much so that the guard in charge said there were no witnesses to the accident on his report! It turns out he told her she could leave when the ambulance arrived, she asked if he needed her details and she was told no!

Lucky we were able to track her down and she gave a statement to a solicitor. There was some minor damage to the bike and he had a lot gear cut off him, that’s all he wants to get back. Probably should have contacted his insurance straight away

I had similar when I was taken away in an ambulance, but without the happy ending. Garda on scene didn't take details of any witnesses, nor the driver I pointed out who caused it. Instead he asked me (while concussed and strapped in a stretcher) what speed I was going, and only took the details of the driver of the car I had hit and damaged (who was a lovely man, but hadn't seen anything).

Afterwards the Garda then lied to me that he had taken the details, but couldn't give them to me, only to a solicitor or my insurance company. GSOC did nothing. My insurance covered the damage to the other car, but I was left out of pocket for everything else.

Ultimate Seduction

buffalo wrote: »

Perhaps you should read the post again, as your understanding of the basic figures involved doesn't seem to be great! :pac:

Anyway, I'm not sure how I can be any way at fault for the behaviour of overtaking drivers? PM me and I'll send you links to the video footage, and you can tell me how I was at fault.

I never said they were your fault? I misread 'incident' for accident anyway, apologies.

Did all these incidents take place in town or on a open road?