Gillette | Toxic masculinity advert.

Zorya

Lumen wrote: »

I wonder whether Saudi Arabia has a boards.sa where people moan about SJWs ruining everything by allowing women to drive.

Yeah because western SJWs (whatever they are when they are at home in Mammy and Daddy's pad) are really active in campaigning for human rights in Saudi Arabia.

NOT.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

And that is a reasonable response. It is possible to agree with the sentiment of the ad and call BS on the corporation behind it. (I know you didn't say you agreed with the sentiment either)

But decrying the corporation solely because of the ad (as anyone who is flushing razors ) is childish.

Flushing razors is a bad idea from the perspective of the potential of blockages in the foul waste of water system.

I don't agree with the sentiment of the ad as it does paint men in an overly simplistic negative light. Were an ad to appear depicting women in a similar manner i would be equally appalled.
Masculinity isn't toxic, nor is femininity, it really is time for people to wake up to this.
I do believe most people who support social justice causes do so from a "good place", but sadly they've been sold a massive pack of lies and really need to wake the hell up to it.

Zorya

joe40 wrote: »

I would agree with that if I thought that is is happening on a widescale level in society, I just don't see it.
The careers you have mentioned will continue to attract predominantly young males and we will still produce young males well able to carry out those tasks.
I do agree you can read about silly practises and ideas but by enlarge they do not get traction.
Analagous to the stories that you soon won't be able to celebrate Christmas anymore, that I've been hearing for over 20 years.
Some clown says something silly and then it is extrapolated to mean this is a reflection of society at large.
The young fellas I know and work with ( I work in a sec school) are every bit as manly, masculine, boyish whatever word you want as previous generation.
It would not be possible to socially engineer that out of them even if there was the effort to do so.

I hope so.

But I still distrust any politically motivated attempt, big or small, to socially engineer human beings.

1800_Ladladlad

Muckka wrote: »

THOSE ARE NOT THE MEN THAT WOMEN WANT.

Those are the men which society wants us to be, soften us down, manshaming etc

From what I gather from this ad and all the other nonsense going around stereotyping men and telling them how they should be, it appears that they want men to a beta male but in reality woman want the alpha.

qwerty ui op

Muckka wrote: »

My interpretation of sjw's and femminists is they want to change society for the betterment of their agendas, rather than let people be people.

Ingrained in our DNA is anger,love, responsibility, fear, happiness and success.
Sometimes people need outside help for psychological and social problems, there's professionals are paid handsomely to help out.

But the sjw, lefties and femminists want it their way, or the highway.
Not everyone wants to be a feminist and now I hear men are femminists too.
That has me really confused.
Society doesn't need feminism or sjw's lefties etc

I say **** them, I'm taking the highway and being myself.

Do you live in Ireland?

If so, can you tell me where I might find a sjw?

Since I've seen that picture of the young woman with dread locks on ylyl a few years back I've been searching

I've only ever come across one feminist about 15 years ago so...

The people many of you guys think are out there don't actually exist their only in your heads.
So it might never happen

conorhal

Tell me how wrote: »

You seem to have a problem with a concept of masculinity which promotes respect and not having to resort to violence.

Fine, that's your prerogative. I disagree.

You are also being entirely selective in choosing this ad to get hot under the collar about the true motivations of corporations when it comes to advertising. Again, that's your prerogative but come on now, is this the first ad you have ever seen.

You seem to have a problem addressing the post rather then the poster, but please, tell me more about what I think and believe, I'm dying to know more!

FatherTed

Burty330 wrote: »

^ Look at this tulip thinking he's morally superior to everybody. Ponce

Absolutely not!!!

I'm more a potato man.

Muckka

qwerty ui op wrote: »

Do you live in Ireland?

If so, can you tell me where I might find a sjw?

Since I've seen that picture of the young woman with dread locks on ylyl a few years back I've been searching

I've only ever come across one feminist about 15 years ago so...

The people many of you guys think are out there don't actually exist their only in your heads.
So it might never happen

"Facepalm"

nullzero

qwerty ui op wrote: »

Do you live in Ireland?

If so, can you tell me where I might find a sjw?

Since I've seen that picture of the young woman with dread locks on ylyl a few years back I've been searching

I've only ever come across one feminist about 15 years ago so...

The people many of you guys think are out there don't actually exist their only in your heads.
So it might never happen

You haven't been looking very hard I take it.

Muckka

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

From what I gather from this ad and all the other nonsense going around stereotyping men and telling them how they should be, it appears that they want men to a beta male but in reality woman want the alpha.

Of course women prefer the alpha.
He's better DNA, better looking, stronger and probably able to be less sensitive.

So materially, a woman would prefer her kid's to be emotionally intelligent, physically strong and healthy.

The reason women like beta males is because he'll be a good provider, hardly ever argue back, and he's second best.

Hypergamy is the usual attraction for marriage anyhow, but in the end the alpha gets the pick of the crop....

freshpopcorn

qwerty ui op wrote: »

Do you live in Ireland?

If so, can you tell me where I might find a sjw?

Since I've seen that picture of the young woman with dread locks on ylyl a few years back I've been searching

I've only ever come across one feminist about 15 years ago so...

The people many of you guys think are out there don't actually exist their only in your heads.
So it might never happen

I find the term feminist interesting.
I probably have encountered the odd extreme feminist but I've come a la carte feminist a good bit.(Generally they think they are total feminists tough)

conorhal

Muckka wrote: »

Of course women prefer the alpha.
He's better DNA, better looking, stronger and probably able to be less sensitive.

So materially, a woman would prefer her kid's to be emotionally intelligent, physically strong and healthy.

The reason women like beta males is because he'll be a good provider, hardly ever argue back, and he's second best.

Hypergamy is the usual attraction for marriage anyhow, but in the end the alpha gets the pick of the crop....

Which is it going to be ladies?




a)
or

Tell me how

conorhal wrote: »

You seem to have a problem addressing the post rather then the poster, but please, tell me more about what I think and believe, I'm dying to know more!

I disagree entirely that the ad is political but I have no wish to discuss this with anyone who thinks that the act of flagging Trumps behaviour is worse than said behaviour. Because I've done that and it just goes on and on and on and on...

ebbsy

Yes it has got people talking about Gillette.

But it is still bull****.

conorhal

conorhal wrote: »

Which is it going to be ladies?

Of course to make it a little more scientific you would have to add 2 more pictures. One of the second guy holding the first guys sign. And one of the first guy wearing the second guys outfit and not holding the sign.

_Then_ see which one that gets statistically picked most. Something tells me there is a number of women who would gladly go at one - the other - or both with a strap on.

Muckka

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Of course to make it a little more scientific you would have to add 2 more pictures. One of the second guy holding the first guys sign. And one of the first guy wearing the second guys outfit and not holding the sign.

_Then_ see which one that gets statistically picked most. Something tells me there is a number of women who would gladly go at one - the other - or both with a strap on.

Lol I'd say you're right there....

Tell me how

nullzero wrote: »

Flushing razors is a bad idea from the perspective of the potential of blockages in the foul waste of water system.

I don't agree with the sentiment of the ad as it does paint men in an overly simplistic negative light. Were an ad to appear depicting women in a similar manner i would be equally appalled.
Masculinity isn't toxic, nor is femininity, it really is time for people to wake up to this.
I do believe most people who support social justice causes do so from a "good place", but sadly they've been sold a massive pack of lies and really need to wake the hell up to it.

Call it what you want, there are elements of human behaviour carried out predominantly (but not exclusively) by a certain gender which makes many (but not all) of the other gender uncomfortable at least occasionally or actually unsafe at times.

It is not the gender they (whoever they are) are looking to change it is the behaviour.

Were there a female behaviour which makes many (but not all) of the other gender uncomfortable at least occasionally or actually unsafe at times then that too should be flagged.

Have you a female behaviour in mind which you think should be the focus of an ad?

Bannasidhe

Undividual wrote: »

Can you tell my why you think there are ads about toxic masculinity (which do not relate to the product at all) but none about feminine toxicity?

Well, I don't actually think the Gillette as is about toxic masculinity as such - it's about stepping in when you see examples of men being dicks to set an example for future generations. Are the men being dicks displaying traits associated with toxic masculinity - kinda, but in a soft shell way. Dickish more than toxic. If you want to see an ad about toxic masculinity watch Patrick Stewart's about domestic violence.
In many ways the Gillette ad is about accepted notions of positive masculinity - protecting the weak, setting an example of leadership, supporting your mates in hard times and saying more of this guys.

In the case of women the problem, ironically, is ads that actually encourage toxicity. The thousands of bodyshaming ads for example which carry the message fat (as in not skeletal thin) is bad - this feeds ammunition to the 'mean girls' (aka complete b*tches) who then bully any girl/woman who doesn't conform.
Dove has tried to address this with their real bodies campaign.

Women can be dicks too. They are just generally sneakier about it.

Chips Lovell

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I find the term feminist interesting.
I probably have encountered the odd extreme feminist but I've come a la carte feminist a good bit.(Generally they think they are total feminists tough)

I think the issue is that what ordinary people regard as feminism is not what the more paranoid quarters of the internet regard as feminism. There's a tendency among the latter to pick out the most extreme of examples of feminist thought (usually from US college campuses) and use that as indicative of all feminism.

And that's a broader part of a trend of people looking for stuff to get outraged about. The ad itself is a case in point. AFAIK, it hasn't even aired in Ireland.

qwerty ui op

Muckka wrote: »

"Facepalm"

Have you or anyone else on with the left/right US shoite ever posted anything ever online about local politics?

Are you in anyway concerned about local issues?

Do you who know who your local councillors are? Do you even know who your TDs are ?


Have you ever consider why there is so much left/right stuff online?

People going on about the future of Europe and Vladamir Putin, no less, Its all the big stuff. As if, rando's online have a clue about Russian politics.

None of it will matter a jot, in the next GE because it's too irrelevant to society here. Many on here are just too invested in all this shoite to see the wood from trees.

I don't know why online discussion has taken the form it has, but it ain't about politics it would be far more local if it was .

conorhal

Tell me how wrote: »

Call it what you want, there are elements of human behaviour carried out predominantly (but not exclusively) by a certain gender which makes many (but not all) of the other gender uncomfortable at least occasionally or actually unsafe at times.

It is not the gender they (whoever they are) are looking to change it is the behaviour.

Were there a female behaviour which makes many (but not all) of the other gender uncomfortable at least occasionally or actually unsafe at times then that too should be flagged.

Have you a female behaviour in mind which you think should be the focus of an ad?

I'm dying to see the new tampax commercial set down in the family court....


But when it comes to what female behaviour needs to be addressed... pretty much exactly the same behaviour...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/it-is-not-just-women-who-are-the-victims-of-spousal-violence-1.941702

"According to a large-scale Statistics Canada study in 2005, the likelihood of a man being the victim of violent abuse by his female partner is almost the same as it is for a woman."

But ask yourself this, how many shelters for male victims of abuse are there? And before you start with,because men won't accept the help, that's not true.
Erin Pizzey, founder of the first modern 'battered wives shelter' tried to open one and was fought tooth and nail by the sisterhood, to the point she dissavowed feminism!
Then there's the tale of Earl Silverman who used his own money to open Canada's first and only shelter for male victims of domestic violence.
He also faced massive opposition from 'certian quarters' to any public funding for the project and was subject to years of ridicle for setting the shelter up using his own money.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/privately-run-shelter-for-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse-forced-to-close-its-doors-due-to-lack-of-funding

Oh, and on an even sadder note Silverman killed himself shortly after the shelter closed.

SlowBlowin

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Why are we still talking about women in a thread about an ad aimed at men?

Seems like deflection.

Never said masculinity is toxic. I said there are aspects of it that are. Also said there are aspects of femininity that are toxic. Not sure what the hell else you want from me. I am not getting into a discussion of toxic femininity or feminism in a thread about perceptions of toxic masculinity.

I don't know if you read my previous post but it answers your question.

It is a fact that Gillette current marketing effort is focused on woman, that is what this ad is about, promoting Gillette's name (and hence products) to the female shaving market.

This ad is a direct result from consultations with agencies with that specific brief.

SB

Muckka

qwerty ui op wrote: »

Have you or anyone else on with the left/right US shoite ever posted anything ever online about local politics?

Are you in anyway concerned about local issues?

Do you who know who your local councillors are? Do you even know who your TDs are ?


Have you ever consider why there is so much left/right stuff online?

People going on about the future of Europe and Vladamir Putin, no less, Its all the big stuff. As if, rando's online have a clue about Russian politics.

None of it will matter a jot, in the next GE because it's too irrelevant to society here. Many on here are just too invested in all this shoite to see the wood from trees.

I don't know why online discussion has taken the form it has, but it ain't about politics it would be far more local if it was .

This is about advertising, masculinity and men...

Start up your own thread if you like.

Wibbs

conorhal wrote: »

Please god tell me that's photoshop? Though at that moment at least he's got the kinda simpering face that would muster all of one's self control to not slap.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

In the case of women the problem, ironically, is ads that actually encourage toxicity. The thousands of bodyshaming ads for example which carry the message fat (as in not skeletal thin) is bad - this feeds ammunition to the 'mean girls' (aka complete b*tches) who then bully any girl/woman who doesn't conform.
Dove has tried to address this with their real bodies campaign.

Women can be dicks too. They are just generally sneakier about it.

+1000, though in my humble the Dove thing was just more marketing BS to keep the tills ringing. Similar to the "plus size" stuff. "Oh crap glamorexics on Parisian catwalks aren't shifting enough units to heavy lasses, quick find models who like their pies and point out their "real women" cellulite on instagram and let's exploit yet another market". The marketing at women is scarily twisted. Pick whatever body shape you are and you're never quite it.

Tell me how

conorhal wrote: »

I'm dying to see the new tampax commercial set down in the family court....


But when it comes to what female behaviour needs to be addressed... pretty much exactly the same behaviour...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/it-is-not-just-women-who-are-the-victims-of-spousal-violence-1.941702

"According to a large-scale Statistics Canada study in 2005, the likelihood of a man being the victim of violent abuse by his female partner is almost the same as it is for a woman."

.

I think it was the same study that found the following.

A Canadian study showed that 7% of women and 6% of men were abused by their current or former partners, but female victims of domestic violence were more than twice as likely to be injured as male victims, three times more likely to fear for their life, twice as likely to be stalked, and twice as likely to experience more than ten incidents of violence

So the consequence of male violence tends to be greater (unsurprisingly given the likely strength disparity).

That not withstanding, all acts of abuse should be flagged as unacceptable.

I think those that feel men are being unfairly targeted should push for advocacy in the areas where they think it is needed as a priority over voicing their disgust at their perception of being unfairly targeted.

Wibbs

conorhal wrote: »

But ask yourself this, how many shelters for male victims of abuse are there? And before you start with,because men won't accept the help, that's not true.
Erin Pizzey, founder of the first modern 'battered wives shelter' tried to open one and was fought tooth and nail by the sisterhood, to the point she dissavowed feminism!
Then there's the tale of Earl Silverman who used his own money to open Canada's first and only shelter for male victims of domestic violence.
He also faced massive opposition from 'certian quarters' to any public funding for the project and was subject to years of ridicle for setting the shelter up using his own money.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/privately-run-shelter-for-male-victims-of-domestic-abuse-forced-to-close-its-doors-due-to-lack-of-funding

Oh, and on an even sadder note Silverman killed himself shortly after the shelter closed.

And yet in the US, Canada and Australia there are shelters for the pets of abused women. Yeah.

valoren

It's an ad directed at women.

Gillette is at peak innovation in terms of men's razors while also realizing that the old adverts which reliably appealed to their core market are no longer fashionable. That coupled with cheaper and better razors from competitors growing their businesses and the weak dollar has resulted in low earnings growth domestically in the US.

Safety razor? Check.
Two blades? Check.
Gripped handle? Check.
Three blades? Check.

*get's bought out by P&G*

Get it to vibrate? Check.
Get it to swivel? Check.
....
....Uh, how about five blades? Really? Are we taking the piss now? Ok Check.
Ok....um.....5 blades but with a trimmer on the back? Check.
...
...
Uh.........hmmm.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Have you a female behaviour in mind which you think should be the focus of an ad?

utterly avoiding responsibility on social media for any of the unideal ways in which the world works and has worked for most of the history of both genders

not wanting anything to be about supposed or actual gender-attributable traits until it suits them to make everything about supposed or actual gender-attributable traits

oh, and nagging

Phat Cat

These sort of anti male/toxic masculinity TV ads are nothing new, sure the media have been belittling men for years now, while empowering women at the same time, usually under the guise of "humour"

This following Irish advert immediately springs to mind. Of course if the roles were reversed.......well you know yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjNcFwXh5XI

Tell me how

Phat Cat wrote: »

These sort of anti male/toxic masculinity TV ads are nothing new, sure the media have been belittling men for years now, while empowering women at the same time, usually under the guise of "humour"

This following Irish advert immediately springs to mind. Of course if the roles were reversed.......well you know yourself

I'm a man but do you seriously want to go down that road.