Gillette | Toxic masculinity advert.

Chips Lovell

Riiiiiight...

I thought leftists were against capitalism and thus not very supportive of advertising. Surely leftists would have the rage about all ads?

Or is this "leftist" in the Reddit/Twitter corner of the internet?

cavemeister

Gillette Venus ad for women:

Women dancing around in the sun shaving their legs together and laughing - Life is great!

Gillette ad for men:

YOU ARE ALL ANIMALS!!
p.s. Please buy or razors, you damn dirty apes

suicide_circus

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Riiiiiight...

I thought leftists were against capitalism and thus not very supportive of advertising. Surely leftists would have the rage about all ads?

Or is this "leftist" in the Reddit/Twitter corner of the internet?

well spotted. it's an odd contradiction alright but without evil capitalism none of the luxuries which allow us to engage in this pathetic navel gazing would exist.

Chips Lovell

@Lumen. I think he's suggesting you're a hipster.

Go back to oiling your beard or eating vegan tacos or whatever you people do.

Cockford Ollie

Tired Gardener wrote: »

Finding a video asking men to be kind to others as controversial is quite worrying to me.

How about an advert asking women not to be sluts, or asking black people to not to commit so much crime, or asking Asians to learn to drive better, or asking Jews not to pursue money so much, or any negative stereotype about any individual grouping?

Why is there a narrative in the first place that thinks men need to be told to do better?

Silentcorner

Cockford Ollie wrote: »

How about an advert asking women not to be sluts, or asking black people to not to commit so much crime, or asking Asians to learn to drive better, or asking Jews not to pursue money so much, or any negative stereotype about any individual grouping?

Why is there a narrative in the first place that thinks men need to be told to do better?

Indeed, that is a question people need to start asking themselves as much as they can.

Interesting read

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/the-unending-war-against-masculinity-and-men/?fbclid=IwAR3NRjMQfEC899lw7yJZdjHjdcd6bjaMNIlFi3w-2_R_lbfYKnRaezHJd6U

Augme

givyjoe wrote: »

Humour me re: stupid 'points', you asked the question of why would you feel the need to touch a woman. Do you see a problem with the possible reason I gave you?

No. There lots of valid reasons youd need to touch a person. But nobody minds about those 99% of the time. Well, expect a small cohort of men who think that if you touch a women you'll be accused of rape and that dating will only be confiene to online because now women don't want men talking to them in public.

Billy Mays

J. Marston wrote: »

If a company is implying that a large section of their customers are pieces of shwhen the vast majority of those customers are decent guys, then isn't that a solid basis to say "Nah, I'll spend my cash somewhere else?"

Is that what you took from the ad? That the company is implying you're a piece of shìt?

Jaysus, I guess Gillette products aren't suitable for sensitive skin after all

Arghus

It's a slightly ham-fisted ad, certainly not worth hundreds and hundreds of posts - but the corners of the Internet populated with the flakiest of the flakiest crying man baby snowflakes will always be perpetually outraged.

andekwarhola

Those kind of ads - no matter what the 'message' - and that identikit 'inspirational' parping fcuking music always make me puke a bit in general so I didn't finish it.

That said, I can't see why men would object it on political grounds. Some men are asses to women; most are not. I'm not an ass to women so why would I feel belittled by it?

andekwarhola

cavemeister wrote: »

Gillette Venus ad for women:

Women dancing around in the sun shaving their legs together and laughing - Life is great!

Gillette ad for men:

YOU ARE ALL ANIMALS!!
p.s. Please buy or razors, you damn dirty apes

To be fair, I liked the one where slotting in a sanitary towel immediately makes women want to skydive out of a plane to chick power ballads.

joe40

I think it is crazy the over the top reaction this ad is getting. There are parts I don't like and there are plenty of aspects of modern feminism I don't like, but this nonsense about an attack on men, and masculinity under threat is ridiculous.
Some people are guilty of the exact same silly outrage they mock others about.
I'm a man coming 50 with a 13 year old son. The world for him is much better than it was for me. In the same way as the society I grew up in was better than my father's.
In his day if a man took any part in rearing kids he would be ridiculed. Look what he missed out on.
Feminism and more progressive attitudes brought about these changes. For all the people getting hot and bothered about modern society dont forget how far we have come

maccored

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This. And to those wondering "what's the point of making a fuss, it's only an ad", we're trying to make sure this man-shaming culture doesn't become more entrenched over here than it already has.

Man shaming? Man up i say. Get thicker skin

4068ac1elhodqr

Is this the same Gillete co that gleefully pushes the 'pink tax*'?

Whereby they're happy to let the good womenfolk of the world pay extra for (same cost to produce) products, *because they're pink.

Perhaps they think women are already overpaid or stupid cash cows to milk,
while at the same time reckon that white men are stupid imbeciles that need social direction from fellow black folks^ (as per ad).

No offense to the black folks, but in the US they're ^far more likely to be incarcerated for their improper behaviour.

hatrickpatrick

maccored wrote: »

Man shaming? Man up i say. Get thicker skin

As professore said earlier, we have thick skins. I'm worried about the next generation of lads growing up being told "you're most likely a bad person even if you think you're not. Be ashamed."

Would you be saying "get thicker skin" to women, black people or gay people who had spent their lives seeing hate speech against their kind accepted and normalised in mainstream society, back when that was still socially acceptable?

freshpopcorn

joe40 wrote: »

I think it is crazy the over the top reaction this ad is getting. There are parts I don't like and there are plenty of aspects of modern feminism I don't like, but this nonsense about an attack on men, and masculinity under threat is ridiculous.
Some people are guilty of the exact same silly outrage they mock others about.
I'm a man coming 50 with a 13 year old son. The world for him is much better than it was for me. In the same way as the society I grew up in was better than my father's.
In his day if a man took any part in rearing kids he would be ridiculed. Look what he missed out on.
Feminism and more progressive attitudes brought about these changes. For all the people getting hot and bothered about modern society dont forget how far we have come

I actually agree with the majority of what you say here.
The one thing I find tough is if you say you dislike any aspect of the ad or question it.You get labelled as some kind of crazy man who feels threatened by the ad.

Tired Gardener

Cockford Ollie wrote: »

How about an advert asking women not to be sluts, or asking black people to not to commit so much crime, or asking Asians to learn to drive better, or asking Jews not to pursue money so much, or any negative stereotype about any individual grouping?

Why is there a narrative in the first place that thinks men need to be told to do better?

In the advert there are examples of good men present, too. It’s contrasting men who allow certain bad behaviours to perpetuate with those who stand up against those behaviours, because research has shown that men and boys are more likely to be positively influenced by good male role models (and vice versa). So it’s urging men to be those better examples.

Bannasidhe

cavemeister wrote: »

Gillette Venus ad for women:

Women dancing around in the sun shaving their legs together and laughing - Life is great!

Gillette ad for men:

YOU ARE ALL ANIMALS!!
p.s. Please buy or razors, you damn dirty apes

You mean the ad that tells women that perfectly natural underarm hair is disgusting and must be removed using even more overpriced razorblades then the ones aimed at men because pink?

Is that not telling women happiness is a bald pit?

:P

Bannasidhe

Cockford Ollie wrote: »

How about an advert asking women not to be sluts, or asking black people to not to commit so much crime, or asking Asians to learn to drive better, or asking Jews not to pursue money so much, or any negative stereotype about any individual grouping?

Why is there a narrative in the first place that thinks men need to be told to do better?

You missed a few obnoxiously racist stereotypes and you are trying to hard to bring race into this.

Let me help:

Tell the Irish to drink less.

hatrickpatrick

Tired Gardener wrote: »

It’s contrasting men who allow certain bad behaviours

Implying a man is somehow responsible for other mens' bad behaviour simply because they're both men.

So it’s urging men to be those better examples.

Which implies that most of us aren't already, and need to be instructed or reminded. In other words, talking down and condescending.

How about people stop telling us what to do and afford us the same "empowerment" as women? We can have it all and be anything we choose to be?

Silentcorner

joe40 wrote: »

I think it is crazy the over the top reaction this ad is getting. There are parts I don't like and there are plenty of aspects of modern feminism I don't like, but this nonsense about an attack on men, and masculinity under threat is ridiculous.
Some people are guilty of the exact same silly outrage they mock others about.
I'm a man coming 50 with a 13 year old son. The world for him is much better than it was for me. In the same way as the society I grew up in was better than my father's.
In his day if a man took any part in rearing kids he would be ridiculed. Look what he missed out on.
Feminism and more progressive attitudes brought about these changes. For all the people getting hot and bothered about modern society dont forget how far we have come

And a lot more needs to be done.

However, the reason we have got to this level of comfort is because of the endeavors of entrepreneurs, inventors, engineers, politicians, innovators, armies etc...all of which depend largely on the stoicism, competitiveness, aggression, ability to handle pressure and energy of men (and to a lesser extent women) ...the very traits were are now told are toxic.

The next we are going to see will be gender quotas in STEM..the area where most of that innovation and industry evolves from.

It never ceases to amaze me how indifferent people are to how fragile all that financial comfort is....and how easily our living standards can erode.

If you want your young son to have the life you enjoy....you need to pay more attention to how it all happened, and how easily it can be taken away.

There is a strong chance your son will not see the life you saw...it will be much much different, gender equality will be the least of his worries!

Mrsmum

Could one not say the ad is a version of the old Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Therefore it's saying the majority of mankind are good, absolutely, but not to let the rotten apples thrive & spread their sickness to impressionable other men & to next generation. Is there anything wrong with that message ?

Billy Mays

Mrsmum wrote: »

Could one not say the ad is a version of the old Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Therefore it's saying the majority of mankind are good, absolutely, but not to let the rotten apples thrive & spread their sickness to impressionable other men & to next generation. Is there anything wrong with that message ?

No the ad is quite clearly hate speech :rolleyes:

Silentcorner

Mrsmum wrote: »

Could one not say the ad is a version of the old Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Therefore it's saying the majority of mankind are good, absolutely, but not to let the rotten apples thrive & spread their sickness to impressionable other men & to next generation. Is there anything wrong with that message ?

But that works both ways...

The problem I have about this narrative, people have varying abilities to figure out why they are perceived as toxic...some will accept it, some will reject it...when the question should be, why are we even talking about a toxic gender?

I realised a few months ago that this narrative was affecting how I behave, why? I am not a rapist/wife beater...

Omelette10

Since when is it wrong to approach people to ask them out or flirt?

Mrsmum

Silentcorner wrote: »

But that works both ways...

The problem I have about this narrative, people have varying abilities to figure out why they are perceived as toxic...some will accept it, some will reject it...when the question should be, why are we even talking about a toxic gender?

I realised a few months ago that this narrative was affecting how I behave, why? I am not a rapist/wife beater...

If by that you mean it also applies to women, of course it does. But can men never be addressed on their own or something.
There is no toxic gender. I'm not having my sons called a toxic gender but there are issues with violence etc among men that needs to be spoken about. If anyone dares speaks of it, some men seem to go straight to don't call me a rapist etc you manhater you.

hatrickpatrick

Mrsmum wrote: »

Could one not say the ad is a version of the old Edmund Burke quote - "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Therefore it's saying the majority of mankind are good, absolutely, but not to let the rotten apples thrive & spread their sickness to impressionable other men & to next generation. Is there anything wrong with that message ?

Does the same apply to women? If a horrible woman commits paternity fraud or marries a guy for financial security when she doesn't actually love him, should good women feel bad about it because they personally didn't do anything to stop it? And if so, where are the viral ads by mainstream voices telling them to "become better"?

EDIT:

Mrsmum wrote: »

If by that you mean it also applies to women, of course it does. But can men never be addressed on their own or something.

No. Mainstream criticism of one gender and praising of another, again and again and again, is a discriminatory double standard. It's that simple.

freshpopcorn

Mrsmum wrote: »

If by that you mean it also applies to women, of course it does. But can men never be addressed on their own or something.
There is no toxic gender. I'm not having my sons called a toxic gender but there are issues with violence etc among men that needs to be spoken about. If anyone dares speaks of it, some men seem to go straight to don't call me a rapist etc you manhater you.

I do suppose since Gillette both make male and female razors and ot covers a lot more that violence.. They could have done an advert telling both men and women to treat each other nicer because we are constantly being told about bullying in schools/online/etc amongst both genders.

Silentcorner

Mrsmum wrote: »

If by that you mean it also applies to women, of course it does. But can men never be addressed on their own or something.
There is no toxic gender. I'm not having my sons called a toxic gender but there are issues with violence etc among men that needs to be spoken about. If anyone dares speaks of it, some men seem to go straight to don't call me a rapist etc you manhater you.

There are issues with female bullying and female depression, female abuse, female anxieties, self harming, but that is not assigned to toxic femininity.

Your sons will face discrimination in education, health and justice.

Wibbs

Silentcorner wrote: »

There are issues with female bullying and female depression, female abuse, female anxieties, self harming, but that is not assigned to toxic femininity.

Though much of it is blamed on the "patriarchy" and "toxic masculinity"