3.5 year old a nightmare to deal with at moment - HELP!!

Emanine

Hi All,

I have a 3.5 year old girl - she'll turn 4 in June.

Over the last 2 months, she is making our lives a misery.

She wakes up grumpy every morning without fail, (she sleeps for between 10-11 hours per night).

She is a nightmare to deal with & the temper tantrums are really hard to take. She screams at the top of her voice, hits, kicks, throws things, etc.
Throughout the day - we have certain routines that we observe, e.g - she will help to make lunch. If, for some reason, I make it myself, there's a major tantrum.

This continues on and off throughout a whole day. Bedtimes have become so stressful - e.g. I put her back in bed 46 times one night last week.



She used to be so much fun, making jokes, being cheeky (in a good way), trying to be a 'good girl' but lately she is not nice to be around.

We've tried ignoring the tantrums, we've tried talking her out of them.

This is all going on, and we're still potty training her. Some days she'll tell us every time she needs to go, other days she purposely wet herself to get attention. The training has been going on for months now, but she keeps regressing/resorting to bad behaviour

To give it some background, my husband and I work full-time, she is in playschool 3 half-days per week. She is minded by close family friend at other times.



What I'm looking for is anecdotal evidence from other parents, to see if their kids ever went through a phase like this...?
And how did you deal with it?

farmchoice

mod note *please use language which is appropriate to this forum* when our little girl was that age we took to calling her rose after rose west, it got to the point where it was starting to stick so we had to stop.
this kind of think tends to happen from ages 2 to 4 it sounds like you were lucky before this but it is all kicking off now.


our lad is 3.5 now and he is coming out the other side of it in the last month or so. prior to that we had a terrible 6 months with him, all the stuff you say and much much more. he has really turned a corner now. he can still lapse but he is defiantly going in the right direction.


the terrible two's and threenagers if ever there were apt descriptions of particular ages it is these two.


it will pass, probably pretty soon, just stick with it.

shesty

Have a 4.5 year old girl.3 was a nightmare of an age and it definitely peaked at 3.5 (which of course coincides with Xmas in our house).Jesus, she was unbearable.I found her very hard to live with.It definitely calmed as we moved towards four.I can offer very little advice to be honest except stand firm, follow up on what you say you are going to do, try not to be drawn into the ridiculous rude and cheeky rows they have with you and take a break for yourself when possible.

My second is three in a few months.I am not looking forward to it.I find the half year point is always the worst with our first.

If that helps.

CheerLouth

Sounds like threenager syndrome, OP! No advice - only to say I hear you & totally get what you are saying! Our little girl was a nightmare & she's only just turned 4 so it's very fresh in my memory :P We still have bad days with her & I just try to encourage her to use her words instead of having a meltdown. Some days it works, some days it doesn't. But you aren't alone in it!

Zadkiel

Emanine wrote: »

Hi All,

I have a 3.5 year old girl - she'll turn 4 in June.

Over the last 2 months, she is making our lives a misery.

She wakes up grumpy every morning without fail, (she sleeps for between 10-11 hours per night).

She is a nightmare to deal with & the temper tantrums are really hard to take. She screams at the top of her voice, hits, kicks, throws things, etc.
Throughout the day - we have certain routines that we observe, e.g - she will help to make lunch. If, for some reason, I make it myself, there's a major tantrum.

This continues on and off throughout a whole day. Bedtimes have become so stressful - e.g. I put her back in bed 46 times one night last week.



She used to be so much fun, making jokes, being cheeky (in a good way), trying to be a 'good girl' but lately she is not nice to be around.

We've tried ignoring the tantrums, we've tried talking her out of them.

This is all going on, and we're still potty training her. Some days she'll tell us every time she needs to go, other days she purposely wet herself to get attention. The training has been going on for months now, but she keeps regressing/resorting to bad behaviour

To give it some background, my husband and I work full-time, she is in playschool 3 half-days per week. She is minded by close family friend at other times.



What I'm looking for is anecdotal evidence from other parents, to see if their kids ever went through a phase like this...?
And how did you deal with it?

farmchoice wrote: »

*** - this segment of quote was removed by mods.

A bit unnecessary calling her a bitch, she's only three and a half.

OP I feel your pain, recently experienced much the same.

As you both work full time she might feel like she needs that extra attention?
My wife is at home all day at the moment and I work full time. Our 3.5 yr old is as good as gold all day and indeed is great at the weekends.
As soon as i come in from work is when things would change in the evenings. Everything we tried to do was met with resistance and tantrums.

We tried something over a couple of weeks and it worked for us.

Each evening as soon as I come in I spend quality time with her one on one no interruptions. We'd push out dinner or anything else out by 30 minutes or so and spend time doing an activity.

When we put two and two together she was looking for attention from me and it didn't matter whether it was positive or negative. Since we made that time happen every evening her tantrums are pretty much non existent.

Perhaps your little girl is experiencing the same frustration? Every child is different though but i thought no harm sharing my experience.

The other thing i would add is, if she's waking up in bad form every morning have you ruled out her being under the weather? This could be preventing her from having a restful night causing the other issues as a knock on effect.

Best of luck with everything, I hope this gets better for you soon.

Z

dori_dormer

3.5 is tough! look up the gessell developmental leaps. They happen at the half years for a few months each side. It could also be that she is decompressing from her days when she gets home to her safe space. so shes extra difficult for you as shes been trying her best with others all day.
At that age they really want routine and safety and reassurance

A tool i found useful at the age ( and beyond) was 'How to talk so little Kids will Listen' i got it on audible but its in book form too. I found it helped me talk to my fella in a way that best avoided tantrums or helped him out of the tantrums quicker. You feel like an eejit saying some of the stuff but it really works and isnt about giving in either. It definitly helped ease the stress levels in my house for everyone.

Zadkiel

dori_dormer wrote: »

3.5 is tough! look up the gessell developmental leaps. They happen at the half years for a few months each side. It could also be that she is decompressing from her days when she gets home to her safe space. so shes extra difficult for you as shes been trying her best with others all day.
At that age they really want routine and safety and reassurance

A tool i found useful at the age ( and beyond) was 'How to talk so little Kids will Listen' i got it on audible but its in book form too. I found it helped me talk to my fella in a way that best avoided tantrums or helped him out of the tantrums quicker. You feel like an eejit saying some of the stuff but it really works and isnt about giving in either. It definitly helped ease the stress levels in my house for everyone.

That's very interesting, any examples on what type of phrases you had success with?

lawred2

farmchoice wrote: »

*** - this segment of quote was removed by mods.

wtf

blueskys

at 3.5 they are adjusting to being 4 and at 4.5 they are adjusting to being 5.. and so on. Be kind, understanding, firm (about important things)and encouraging and praise them when they get things right..and don't get drawn into rows. Try and see the world from their eyes too to find out what's going on in their own little heads bless em

Dardania

Have to echo all the other posters, they can be a nightmare at that age. Our eldest is approaching 3.5 now, but we've had some awful months with her, but calming down now.

I find when I pick her up from kindergarten, she is doing 90 there, and then just crashes on the way home, to become really withdrawn. It's important to let her chill out and reflect I find for that, and not try to intervene with her, or strike a conversation, just to comfort her and reassure it's normal to be worn out after a busy day.
For the mornings, a routine helps although she will try to get out of it with every technique.

Solidarity with OP - you guys will survive! If not, well they'll always blame the parents :-p (joke)

shesty

dori_dormer wrote: »

3.5 is tough! look up the gessell developmental leaps. They happen at the half years for a few months each side. It could also be that she is decompressing from her days when she gets home to her safe space. so shes extra difficult for you as shes been trying her best with others all day.
At that age they really want routine and safety and reassurance

A tool i found useful at the age ( and beyond) was 'How to talk so little Kids will Listen' i got it on audible but its in book form too. I found it helped me talk to my fella in a way that best avoided tantrums or helped him out of the tantrums quicker. You feel like an eejit saying some of the stuff but it really works and isnt about giving in either. It definitly helped ease the stress levels in my house for everyone.

I second this.I don't follow that exact thing, but I take cues from Janet Lansbury and RIE parenting.Her articles are like my refresher pointers (and also a reassurance that I am not the only one experiencing these issues), and language is just everything for little people.A change of phrase or a change in your tone can instantly resolve a situation that is heading south quickly!!!(Even when you really just want to tell them to F off.....yes....).Also I find that they do hold it all together at playschool and then decompress at home (subtitles- lose the plot). She probably knows it's not acceptable to hit/kick/etc. at school so you are getting the brunt of it at home.It got so bad last year with us, I actually asked the teacher what she was like and she said she was "fine-you do know they save all that behaviour for when they are at home, don't you?"

They get better at holding it together at four, but I know a friend recently remarked that she frequently gets the school bag flung across the carpark when doing the play-school pickup, so it is dependent on the child a bit!We actually had awful bedtime tantrums, so we started putting her to bed earlier and not messing around during bedtime-keeping it all moving quickly enough-really reduced the tantrums.So it was in and out of the bath, not too much playing or messing, and then into pjs, no messing around too long with teeth or anything.It helped ours a lot.

farmchoice

[QUOTE=Zadkiel;109137163]A bit unnecessary calling her a bitch, she's only three and a half.

OP I feel your pain, recently experienced much the same.

As you both work full time she might feel like she needs that extra attention?
My wife is at home all day at the moment and I work full time. Our 3.5 yr old is as good as gold all day and indeed is great at the weekends.
As soon as i come in from work is when things would change in the evenings. Everything we tried to do was met with resistance and tantrums.

We tried something over a couple of weeks and it worked for us.

Each evening as soon as I come in I spend quality time with her one on one no interruptions. We'd push out dinner or anything else out by 30 minutes or so and spend time doing an activity.

When we put two and two together she was looking for attention from me and it didn't matter whether it was positive or negative. Since we made that time happen every evening her tantrums are pretty much non existent.

Perhaps your little girl is experiencing the same frustration? Every child is different though but i thought no harm sharing my experience.

The other thing i would add is, if she's waking up in bad form every morning have you ruled out her being under the weather? This could be preventing her from having a restful night causing the other issues as a knock on effect.

Best of luck with everything, I hope this gets better for you soon.

Z[/QUOTE]


'im 43 years old and like to think i have lived a bit, in those 43 years i can say that i have only met 5 females that would really deserve to be called a bitch, 4 of those five were three and half years old at the time, make of that what you will.

Zadkiel

farmchoice wrote: »

'im 43 years old and like to think i have lived a bit, in those 43 years i can say that i have only met 5 females that would really deserve to be called a bitch, 4 of those five were three and half years old at the time, make of that what you will.

All that tells me is that you make a habit of labeling little girls bitches.
Children that age cannot moderate their own emotions and behaviour and as such should hardly be blamed for it.

iamwhoiam

farmchoice wrote: »

'im 43 years old and like to think i have lived a bit, in those 43 years i can say that i have only met 5 females that would really deserve to be called a bitch, 4 of those five were three and half years old at the time, make of that what you will.

I am 63 years of age and lived a bit more and worked with children all my life . I have met very bold children and children who were needy and mostly gorgeous children . Not once ever have I met a 3.5 year old child who deserved to be called a bitch .


Op . They do go through a phase around that age of being very needy and needing reassuring and time . Maybe find time just for her and postive praise goes a long way too . Very difficult to be positive when they are pushing you to the limit but jump on her good moments when you can and praise her for it

farmchoice

ah here, it was clearly a joke the first time and even more clearly a joke the second time.
as if i would seriously call a 3 year old a bitch, have a bit of sense.

Zadkiel

farmchoice wrote: »

ah here, it was clearly a joke the first time and even more clearly a joke the second time.
as if i would seriously call a 3 year old a bitch, have a bit of sense.

Sorry if I took you up wrong, it didn't read that way.

listermint

farmchoice wrote: »

ah here, it was clearly a joke the first time and even more clearly a joke the second time.
as if i would seriously call a 3 year old a bitch, have a bit of sense.

It doesnt read that way both times.

I suggest you work on your text communication skills because all things considered what you were trying to infer as humour appeared not to be.

iamwhoiam

farmchoice wrote: »

ah here, it was clearly a joke the first time and even more clearly a joke the second time.
as if i would seriously call a 3 year old a bitch, have a bit of sense.

It was not at all clear actually

NSAman

Good dose of the wooden spoon... never did us any harm..;)

sirgandi

OP to put it all into perspective, I’ll tell you what I’m doing this very instant. Firstly, I’m here because my wife sent me this thread when I almost cracked this morning. Secondly, my boy (nearly 4) is the sweetest most caring little lad, painfully polite and has an interest in the world that only a parent could find interesting!..... And I’m fit to lose it.
Now my lad always slept well from 2 onwards. Down he’d go without a bother, little story, bit of craic and gone till 8am if we didn’t hoof him up for playschool.
Since last week, the late night rising started. We’re trying to hold firm, not entering into dialogue with him, not getting angry with him (tough at 3am in the cold hallway) and we really are trying not to take him into the bed. I understand why parents do that and if it suits them, great - but we’d rather not go down that slippery slope.
So here I am, writing this from the most uncomfortable wooden stool in the hall, returning his nibs back to bed like clockwork. Once every 2 mins tonight which is record breaking. Interestingly there are no tears tonight, but we’ll see how long that lasts! From my parental perch on the edge of madness, I say hello and good luck to all of you dealing with the perfect storm of love and lunacy combined. I’d take a bullit for him, but I’d kill a man for a good nights sleep.

We’ll be grand.

Anne_cordelia

farmchoice wrote: »

ah here, it was clearly a joke the first time and even more clearly a joke the second time.
as if i would seriously call a 3 year old a bitch, have a bit of sense.

The exclamation marks made that clear I would have thought.

texas star

I feel your pain my little girl is 3 half and I really don't know what to do either.Her daddy usually does the dressing and chauffeuring as I'm in work early.An example she nearly smashed out our shower door cause she didn't want a shower the other day picked up one of her toys and continuesly smashed it against the door while kicking and screaming complete melt down.This morning I was dressing her for creche she went spare cause colour of her socks I mean stripped all her clothes off and threw them down the stairs screaming she hates me.I asked her teacher about her behaviour as up until 2 weeks ago she was a delightful child..I look forward now to going to work and not dealing with her.Her teacher said she's testing boundaries and will continue to do this till she at least 4-5oh my god 😱 I will be following thread and thank god I'm not alone.She shares my bed it works for us.

Emanine

We had a long night last night. We had a family birthday & she ate cake (unknownst to my husband and I, but that's a problem for another day) so she was wired to the moon from the sugar at bedtime (and hungry too, as it turned out).

Finally got her down at 9.30pm, only to be woken 4 times during night with complaints about a sore leg, sore face, she wanted her door open half-way, and then asking to come to our bed.

I'd actually let her in to our bed, but she refuses to sleep when she gets there.

I'm exhausted today. These days are the toughest, sleep is everything when you're dealing with a difficult child.

MontgomeryClift

Emanine wrote: »

To give it some background, my husband and I work full-time, she is in playschool 3 half-days per week. She is minded by close family friend at other times.

I'm no expert, but I think I found the cause of your problem.

I know it can be hard to live on one wage, but your daughter is being raised by other people, and you don't have a clue what she's going through with them.

Emanine

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

I'm no expert, but I think I found the cause of your problem.

I know it can be hard to live on one wage, but your daughter is being raised by other people, and you don't have a clue what she's going through with them.

For your info - we simply can't afford to live on one wage. Full stop. Like a lot of families in Ireland.

My daughter is being raised by people we know very well. You make it sound like wolves are looking after her.
Do you honestly think if parents had a choice, they would choose to both work full time, and have to miss out on raising their kids.

I feel guilty every day when she's crying at me as I drop her off to the minders, but I have no choice.

To say I don't have a clue is a bit judgemental.

ShauntaMetzel

First of all, I want to ask you is she your real or biological daughter? If yes or even no then I would like to tell you that some kids give such a tough time to parents and she could be one of them. To be a parent is not an easy task, you should keep in mind that thing. Secondly, did you ask your parents ever that how were you in childhood? You shouldn't mind it because most of us think that we entered into this planet with all training including potty trainers. Of course, all of us were the same in our childhood. Again, some of us behaved well with our parents and learnt things quickly and some of us gave them a tough time. Better to treat her in another way or ask other parents for better training tips.

iamwhoiam

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

I'm no expert, but I think I found the cause of your problem.

I know it can be hard to live on one wage, but your daughter is being raised by other people, and you don't have a clue what she's going through with them.

No. you are no expert .

CheerLouth

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

I'm no expert, but I think I found the cause of your problem.

I know it can be hard to live on one wage, but your daughter is being raised by other people, and you don't have a clue what she's going through with them.

You've no idea of the OP's circumstances. They are looking for advice, not a guilt trip from a total stranger. Have a bit of empathy.

farmchoice

Emanine wrote: »

We had a long night last night. We had a family birthday & she ate cake (unknownst to my husband and I, but that's a problem for another day) so she was wired to the moon from the sugar at bedtime (and hungry too, as it turned out).

Finally got her down at 9.30pm, only to be woken 4 times during night with complaints about a sore leg, sore face, she wanted her door open half-way, and then asking to come to our bed.

I'd actually let her in to our bed, but she refuses to sleep when she gets there.

I'm exhausted today. These days are the toughest, sleep is everything when you're dealing with a difficult child.

i hear ya we all do its tough as hell. regarding the cake it was probably more the party its self that had her wired as opposed to the suger but thats another matter.


here is a bit of practical advise though.
i could not figure out why our young lad would not sleep, he was getting up early and had a long day.

then i discovered the child minder was letting him sleep for hours during the afternoon. he was coming back from playschool wreaked and he needed a little nap. (plus he was a little bollox at the time so who could blame her)

i insisted it be kept to an 45 mins or an hour max, she wasn't happy because he didn't want to wake up and in fairness he was tired. but we stuck with it and it worked, under no circumstance was he allowed a little kip on the couch at 5 or 6 o clock even if he was falling asleep standing up.



it only took a few weeks but it worked. id say whoever is minding your lady is letting her sleep a little longer then they are letting on.

Dardania

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

I'm no expert, but I think I found the cause of your problem.

I know it can be hard to live on one wage, but your daughter is being raised by other people, and you don't have a clue what she's going through with them.

This is (rightly) provoking an emotional response.

But to look at your hypothesis non emotionally, I would say that yes, having other people partially responsible for a child must have an influence on their behaviour - either positively or negatively. It must be - children are sponges, and there is a possibility that someone else won't care as much about your child as you do.
Certainly, I see my daughter bringing home expressions and behaviour she has learned in kindergarten - some good and some bad (like she has started not enunciating her words, mimicking one of her friends' diction. This is frustrating because she is such a good talker generally.
And she has also gotten very good about sharing with her younger sister, using expressions she has obviously learned from the kindergarten teachers. So swings and roundabout)

However, to look at your hypothesis from an opposite perspective, are there ever cases where children solely raised by one of the parents has behavioural problems at around 3 years old? Say first time parents, no idea how to maintain discipline while nurturing at the same time, and giving in too easily...? Or even, possibly, may children go through behavioural problem at this age because their range of emotions is expanding massively, and they simply don't know how to control those emotions yet?
In that case, maybe external, experienced help is a positive force...

The_Honeybadger

Had this with ours as well OP. We found a ‘naughty step’ on the stairs very effective. Put them there when they start their tantrum and say you’ll be back in a couple of minutes when she has calmed down. Stay in the vicinity where she knows you are but ignore her while the kicking and screaming continues. There will be fierce resistance initially so persistence is vital, every time they get off put them back and don’t engage until they have calmed down and understand they are not getting their way.

After a couple of episodes she’ll know you won’t give in and will calm down much quicker in order to get off the step. I think we saw it on Nanny 911 or one of those programmes. Worked a treat for us anyway.

Dardania

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Had this with ours as well OP. We found a ‘naughty step’ on the stairs very effective. Put them there when they start their tantrum and say you’ll be back in a couple of minutes when she has calmed down. Stay in the vicinity where she knows you are but ignore her while the kicking and screaming continues. There will be fierce resistance initially so persistence is vital, every time they get off put them back and don’t engage until they have calmed down and understand they are not getting their way.

After a couple of episodes she’ll know you won’t give in and will calm down much quicker in order to get off the step. I think we saw it on Nanny 911 or one of those programmes. Worked a treat for us anyway.

Oh yes, plus + on that. Works great for us too. We got a little cooking timer to countdown - we started at her age +1, but our one is quite stubborn, so now we are at age +2 minutes. It's effective - she often reflects on why she was put there.

MontgomeryClift

Dardania wrote: »

This is (rightly) provoking an emotional response.

The emotional response says it all.

Emanine wrote:

I feel guilty every day when she's crying at me as I drop her off to the minders, but I have no choice.

Does her crying and your guilt not tell you something? I sympathise with this looks like all you can do is find a strategy to cope or wait until your daughter grows out of this behavour, which she probably will.

Someone suggested I have empathy. I do have empathy for all involved but mostly for your daughter, whose young mind experiences this extended time away from her parents as abandonment.

My advice, for what it's worth, is that the parent who earns least should stay at home if this is even remotely possible, even though nowadays it's heresy to suggest such a thing.

That's all. I don't mean to cause upset, but to me it seems daft to skirt around the cause of the problem while treating the symptom.

Good luck, and I hope it works out for the best.

Anne_cordelia

I would ignore Montgomery and Shauna’s replies.

What your daughter is going through is completely normal and developmentally appropriate. Try love bombing, one on one time, positive attention and have a good routine. You will get through it. It’s a (long!) phase. But completely normal. I can’t emphasize that enough.

Emanine

I feel like such an idiot for posting on here.

@MontgomeryClift - you have made this very tired mother feel like the world's worst. If that was your intention- well done to you. If not, please be mindful of your words - they can cause hurt.

All other contributors (especially the other parents in same boat) - Thank you for your comments, they mean alot.

DubInTheWest

Emanine wrote: »

I feel like such an idiot for posting on here.

@MontgomeryClift - you have made this very tired mother feel like the world's worst. If that was your intention- well done to you. If not, please be mindful of your words - they can cause hurt.

All other contributors (especially the other parents in same boat) - Thank you for your comments, they mean alot.

Boards is not a place you should come for advice, it's full of weirdo's from the after hours to the legal discussion to the parenting, it's widespread. There is 1% good people here and the 99% a-holes like farmchoice, he's a right weirdo. You'll come through this, time flys in, and soon you'll be out the other side of this. Just go with it.

mirrorwall14

Ignore the guilt tripping.

Definitely some naughty step needed. Can I ask are ye absolutely consistent with behaviour? Do you follow through each and every time? If we give even a little our three year old turns into a monster. And yeah it would be waaaaay easier to give in most of the time!!

Consequences and expectations also have to be reasonable. Like there’s no point getting angry with my lad if he loses his jumper out and about, he’s not old enough to understand that responsibility but now at nearly four he does know that it must go in the laundry basket when he takes it off arriving home from crèche

How about choices maybe, they might help too. I’ve found that giving a level of control helped a lot. Which top, blue or green would you like today? Would you like to climb up the stairs first or second? Even in the middle of tantrum-would you like to walk to the step yourself or will I lift you to it? Generally the choice is such that I’m happy with either outcome. Would you like your bread in squares or triangles? Triangles? Ok here you go. If meltdown ensues then calmly point out they chose. Then naughty step if it continues etc

Emanine

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Ignore the guilt tripping.

Definitely some naughty step needed. Can I ask are ye absolutely consistent with behaviour? Do you follow through each and every time? If we give even a little our three year old turns into a monster. And yeah it would be waaaaay easier to give in most of the time!!

Consequences and expectations also have to be reasonable. Like there’s no point getting angry with my lad if he loses his jumper out and about, he’s not old enough to understand that responsibility but now at nearly four he does know that it must go in the laundry basket when he takes it off arriving home from crèche

How about choices maybe, they might help too. I’ve found that giving a level of control helped a lot. Which top, blue or green would you like today? Would you like to climb up the stairs first or second? Even in the middle of tantrum-would you like to walk to the step yourself or will I lift you to it? Generally the choice is such that I’m happy with either outcome. Would you like your bread in squares or triangles? Triangles? Ok here you go. If meltdown ensues then calmly point out they chose. Then naughty step if it continues etc

We're trying all of the above.

What we do find is working is giving 'warnings' - eg - you have 10 minutes left in the bath, then 5 minutes, then 1 minute. She complies then because we're not just lifting her out of the bath with no notice.

We are also giving choices, sometimes she'll respond, sometimes she won't.

Dardania

Emanine wrote: »

We're trying all of the above.

What we do find is working is giving 'warnings' - eg - you have 10 minutes left in the bath, then 5 minutes, then 1 minute. She complies then because we're not just lifting her out of the bath with no notice.

We are also giving choices, sometimes she'll respond, sometimes she won't.

Good call on the choices. My folks gave us a good one with the choices - always presume the first answer you need and ask the follow up straight away. S
o don't ask: do you want a bath - instead give them the choice of a bath or a shower. It's similar to mirrorwall14's point - be happy with either choice outcome, and it gives them a belief they're in control because they've made a choice (and unwittingly agreed to the first idea)

LegacyUser

OP please first and foremost do not use the Naughty step, anyone who has studied it and the effects it has on children will tell you that or google "is the naughty step good for children" and you'll see article after article saying no and why it is terrible for children.


It can be frustrating but think of how long these bad habits have been festering it can take that long to create a new better routine for your child, and a routine is what most children thrive on.


one of my children is like yours, she has always been, if you pull her out of a situation suddenly (and she's much older than 3 now) she doesn't like it, like you i discovered it worked much better giving her a "countdown", 10 minutes until we move onto X (X being the next activity such as teeth brushing/meals/chores), that worked with her but not her sister.

Rewarding good behaviour and ignoring bad is best practice and in my experience it works... if your child is lashing out, find out why? is she tired? overtired? hungry? upset? did she have an upsetting experience during the day you weren't told about?....like us kids can just feel emotional or ****ty for no reason too only unlike us they lash out as they have no communication skills for that developed.

Children can also be very basic and usually every tantrum has a reason be it "i'm feeling emotional", "i'm feeling irrationally angry", "I want to wear my breakfast on my head today!", I Have to wear my shoes on the wrong feet", "i don't want to go in the car" or "I just remembered earlier when i bumped my head and now it hurts"

the most important thing is try to keep it positive, your behaviour mostly, try to calm them, and keep calm yourself (this can be super hard to do in these very stressful situations, but if you lose your cool you are only making things worse). I know with mine this can take 30 minutes (it's the longest tantrum i've had with my toddler so far), calming them means making them feel safe, hugs/holding them whatever it takes, once they are calm try and re-negotiate what you want them to do when they have calmed down completely. Obviously it'll be time consuming at first but it does get quicker and easier as they adapt.

its not easy, parenting never is, you might need to put extra effort into it now especially since things have deteriorated lately. But give it a few weeks of this new consistent approach and i really feel you'll see changes in her behaviour and yours. You will have to get all other caregivers on board too but i'd imagine any childcare staff in this situation will agree with consistency and keeping your routines.

you are a good parent and you are doing your best! keep telling yourself that...sometimes we have to look in the mirror and say that to ourselves.

mirrorwall14

Warnings are great. And they do eventually make the association with length of time too. I’ve gone so far as to tell Alexa so that we have an alarm which he hilariously loves 😂

Dardania

Just seeing as there are many knowledgable types here, and further to mirorwall14's point about the little one learning about the length of time - does anyone have any good solutions for the morning routine?
We're running into trouble trying to get the eldest through her ablutions and dressed in time, leading to awful rows. I have a clock en route where I'm planning to put stickers about what must be done by what time, but would timers work too?

mirrorwall14

Dardania wrote: »

Just seeing as there are many knowledgable types here, and further to mirorwall14's point about the little one learning about the length of time - does anyone have any good solutions for the morning routine?
We're running into trouble trying to get the eldest through her ablutions and dressed in time, leading to awful rows. I have a clock en route where I'm planning to put stickers about what must be done by what time, but would timers work too?

Hm that’s a hard one. Our lad is almost four. He still needs a hand getting dressed and can be a bit of a snail over breakfast. Things that help
-leaving shoes, coat and hat in the same place every time
-having him pick out his clothes the night before. Most of the time then I can be telling him to get out of his PJs while I’m getting dressed and help him with anything left (he can’t put on socks yet). If he’s on a particularly go slow then he gets two minutes and I dress him
-breakfast is me constantly reminding him to eat. He gets distracted very easily during breakfast tbh! This is by far the longest bit for us but he isn’t a big eater so it’s important to me

Ms2011

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

Emanine wrote: »

To give it some background, my husband and I work full-time, she is in playschool 3 half-days per week. She is minded by close family friend at other times.

I'm no expert, but I think I found the cause of your problem.

I know it can be hard to live on one wage, but your daughter is being raised by other people, and you don't have a clue what she's going through with them.

I'm a stay at home parent, my daughter has been minded by me since day one.
She is 3.5, almost 4 & she is HARD WORK. She can push my buttons like no one I've ever met. I thought I had a temper until I met this little dictator, even her Montessori teacher has been taken aback by it.
There has been some light at the end of the tunnel though & she is becoming (slightly) easier to manage & meltdowns have reduced to anything from an hour to about 10 minutes.
I'm not sure if it's her age or the fact that we don't get involved in back & forth power struggled with her anymore but things are certainly settling down a bit.

Rubberchikken

calling anyone a bitch at any age isnt a joke and never will be imo.
i dont even use the word to describe a female dog. its an unpleasant word.

i can see that what you think is funny isnt what others would - bearing in mind the name you were calling your kid. i mean rose west. really *sigh*

Dravokivich

Emanine wrote: »

We had a long night last night. We had a family birthday & she ate cake (unknownst to my husband and I, but that's a problem for another day) so she was wired to the moon from the sugar at bedtime (and hungry too, as it turned out).

Finally got her down at 9.30pm, only to be woken 4 times during night with complaints about a sore leg, sore face, she wanted her door open half-way, and then asking to come to our bed.

I'd actually let her in to our bed, but she refuses to sleep when she gets there.

I'm exhausted today. These days are the toughest, sleep is everything when you're dealing with a difficult child.

Hiya, the sugar rush thing isn't actually true. It's easier to say then do, but you've just got to be stern with'em. The more they cry and you respond to it, all they get from that is, knowing how long they've to cry for. She's 3.5 so well able to understand bed time and that you've other things to do. So talk with her about that.

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Hm that’s a hard one. Our lad is almost four. He still needs a hand getting dressed and can be a bit of a snail over breakfast. Things that help
-leaving shoes, coat and hat in the same place every time
-having him pick out his clothes the night before. Most of the time then I can be telling him to get out of his PJs while I’m getting dressed and help him with anything left (he can’t put on socks yet). If he’s on a particularly go slow then he gets two minutes and I dress him
-breakfast is me constantly reminding him to eat. He gets distracted very easily during breakfast tbh! This is by far the longest bit for us but he isn’t a big eater so it’s important to me

I just took a quote from a John Wayne movie, whenever we're falling behind I just tell my son, "We're burning daylight." Recently at night time when he was taking ages to get ready for bed, he said, "Oh no, I'm burning moonlight!"

Tacitus Kilgore

Rubberchikken wrote: »

i dont even use the word to describe a female dog. its an unpleasant word.

It is literally the noun for a female dog. It's not a descriptive word



God help you OP, that's all I'll say - she will come good, just try not to crack up in the meantime. (And try focus on the non-nightmarish moments )

Dravokivich

[mod]

Can we please get over the contentious phrasing used earlier by a poster within the thread. Another mod has already handled it. We can do with not seeing anything further on it as it's distracting from the topic at hand.

Dardania

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Hm that’s a hard one. Our lad is almost four. He still needs a hand getting dressed and can be a bit of a snail over breakfast. Things that help
-leaving shoes, coat and hat in the same place every time
-having him pick out his clothes the night before. Most of the time then I can be telling him to get out of his PJs while I’m getting dressed and help him with anything left (he can’t put on socks yet). If he’s on a particularly go slow then he gets two minutes and I dress him
-breakfast is me constantly reminding him to eat. He gets distracted very easily during breakfast tbh! This is by far the longest bit for us but he isn’t a big eater so it’s important to me

Thanks for that - some nice pragmatic ideas there. Stuff we take for granted are much bigger for children, like the choice of clothes (and that they may wish to have a say in it...which I am accustomed to not allowing time for). Maybe making ti part of bedtime routine would be good, and would focus her o what needs to happen the next morning.
For breakfast, our little one is not a great morning eater at all - she tends to eat like a horse in the afternoon/evening so generally we are okay with a toastie, which can be had in the buggy as well if she's out of time. Does of course lead to a dispute if she has settled in to eat it in the apartment...

Dravokivich wrote: »

Hiya, the sugar rush thing isn't actually true. It's easier to say then do, but you've just got to be stern with'em. The more they cry and you respond to it, all they get from that is, knowing how long they've to cry for. She's 3.5 so well able to understand bed time and that you've other things to do. So talk with her about that.



I just took a quote from a John Wayne movie, whenever we're falling behind I just tell my son, "We're burning daylight." Recently at night time when he was taking ages to get ready for bed, he said, "Oh no, I'm burning moonlight!"

That John Wayne quote is lovely. Very evocative. Really helps value time

shesty

Gonna start telling my four year old that quote.
She'll enjoy it.:D

OP, you can get large sized sand timers for 5, 10, 15 mins. Good visual aid. Now, chose your moments, if she's melting down and you are trying to enforce a timer then do yourself a favour and abandon it. But if you are trying to bring her along with you, something like the timer can be a big aid - "let's see can you get your socks on before the sand runs through", that type of thing. One instruction at a time. "Get dressed" is too open ended (I am having the same process at home here). " Can you try to take your PJ top off/Start taking it off and I'll help you" works a bit better. I am giving serious consideration to implementing a reward chart for dressing here too, with a sticker for each day she dresses herself, because she is well able to. My girl is older mind you, so don't worry about that yet, but a sticker chart could work for other things - I know someone who had one for every day their son didn't cry going into playschool (no it wasn't as cruel as it sounds, it was a tool to help him manage his feelings in the morning).

Actually the other thing I was thinking was to have a word with the school. Last year our preschool did a series of books with the kids about managing their feelings. I can't remember the exact titles, I'll have to find them, but it was basically one book a week or so, on things like when I'm angry how does it feel and what is ok to do, when I'm upset how does it feel and what is ok to do. I think Lauren or Laura something was the author (very vague, sorry!!). Your daughter sounds like she's almost exactly a year behind mine, so she would be ok to do something like that. She is at an age where she has big feelings which are fine, but she needs to learn that she is ok to have the feelings but kicking and screaming is not ok - here are other options. It will come with time, but you do have to stand absolutely firm and follow through on EVERYTHING you say - don't say it if you can't implement it. If you give them an inch, they take a mile!!!

ax530

I would start seeing if being hungry could be a cause it easy resolve too. My children even the 7yo are like that when hungry.
Try a supper before bed porridge or warm Weetabix. Then breakfast first thing.
I also bring a snack an orange or cracker when pick them up in the evening this keeps them going until dinner and prevents evening meltdown. Usually then better chance of eating full proper dinner so won't need a supper.