Fewer L plates on view?

BarryD2

Passing by our local secondary school recently in a rural area, I was struck by the lack of L plates on display in the cars parked outside.

The number of cars parked by students is the same as previous years, when you'd see a 50/50 mix of N plates and L plates.

Now it's just c 50/50 N plates and the others have nothing up. Maybe these drivers have all qualified and have 2 years driving under them (unlikely at this age). Or maybe they are learner drivers now flying under the radar?

A possible conclusion is that Ross's new law may be making the roads more dangerous if we are less likely to be able to identify L drivers now.

Given the consequences for an unaccompanied learner and their parents or car owner now, it's pretty understandable for L drivers to take their plates down and make themselves less identifiable.

What does anyone else notice in rural Ireland?

Samuel T. Cogley

BarryD2 wrote: »

What does anyone else notice in rural Ireland?

The smell!

ayux4rj6zql2ph

L plates are a magnet to cops, even more so now that the Clancy amendment is law it means automatic seizure if the vehicle of a learner is caught driving alone, with the L plates up it is advertising it.

Jimbob1977

If they have removed their L plates and get caught, the sanction should be doubled.

I still see a good few on the motorway, but it's impossible to tell if it's the L driver or another fully licenced family member.

driver02

Any one think the RTÉ ad on L Drivers is a bit harsh

ayux4rj6zql2ph

driver02 wrote: »

Any one think the RTÉ ad on L Drivers is a bit harsh

The RSA ad featuring Noel Clancy? I honestly don't know what to make of it.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

If they have removed their L plates and get caught, the sanction should be doubled.

I still see a good few on the motorway, but it's impossible to tell if it's the L driver or another fully licenced family member.

The road traffic laws here are too soft, we are the laughing stock of Europe on many area's including road traffic.

driver02

Very though on the other young driver involved in that tragic accident I feel.

punisher5112

Drive like a tool expect a problem, leave phones down and concentrate on the job at hand which is to not drive like a tool.

Better training, taught in school and learn in all conditions such as day, night, rain and motorway.

Charles Babbage

Three things.

• People should be prohibited from displaying L plates unless they are learners, this just complicates enforcement.
• Insurance companies should be required to identify all vehicles insured for L drivers.
• The Gardai should make a bit of an effort around colleges and the like where these people are known to hang out and publicly owned schools and colleges should prohibit the use of their carparks etc by unaccompanied drivers.

There is a dysfunctional culture here and it needs to be rooted out.

Atlantic Dawn

There's very few young people learning to drive, back when I learned around 20 years ago it would have been the majority of young people, now it's the minority with rising insurance costs.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Three things.

• People should be prohibited from displaying L plates unless they are learners, this just complicates enforcement.
• Insurance companies should be required to identify all vehicles insured for L drivers.
• The Gardai should make a bit of an effort around colleges and the like where these people are known to hang out and publicly owned schools and colleges should prohibit the use of their carparks etc by unaccompanied drivers.

There is a dysfunctional culture here and it needs to be rooted out.

What about the vehicles that display BOTH L & N plates at the same time, this should be illegal also.

Emely Disgusting Galaxy

I never put up L plates when I was on a provisional purely to stay under the radar. It’s very rarely you get asked for your license at a checkpoint normally once you have your discs in order you are just waved through but L plates re going to get you questioned without doubt.

Emely Disgusting Galaxy wrote: »

What about the vehicles with display BOTH L & N plates at the same time, this should be illegal also.

No it shouldn’t, idiotic rule is what it would be. Cars have multiple drivers, some full, some N and some L or a mix. In my opinion it’s not feasible to keep putting up and taking down plates for different drivers. It’s also pointless, so what if a full driver has L or N plates up etc.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Jagger Straight Raccoon wrote: »

I never put up L plates when I was on a provisional purely to stay under the radar. It’s very rarely you get asked for your license at a checkpoint normally once you have your discs in order you are just waved through but L plates re going to get you questioned without doubt.

Had my L tabard on when riding the bike until recently, came across one checkpoint and i wasn't stopped, let alone checked for tax or insurance, now i know once documents are in order they can't seize a bike, but to not even check it when an L is clearing on display baffled me.

Plumbthedepths

driver02 wrote:

Any one think the RTÉ ad on L Drivers is a bit harsh

No, it's hard hitting and that's the point.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Jagger Straight Raccoon wrote: »

I never put up L plates when I was on a provisional purely to stay under the radar. It’s very rarely you get asked for your license at a checkpoint normally once you have your discs in order you are just waved through but L plates re going to get you questioned without doubt.



No it shouldn’t, idiotic rule is what it would be. Cars have multiple drivers, some full, some N and some L or a mix. In my opinion it’s not feasible to keep putting up and taking down plates for different drivers. It’s also pointless, so what if a full driver has L or N plates up etc.

The 2 plates are often left permanently attached to the windscreen and are not magnetic, thus taking up valuable visibility. Gardai at a checkpoint could end up stopping the vehicle if the driver is alone thinking it is a learner, taking up unnecessary time. You're in favour of the 2 plates at once, i've gathered, i'll park that point then.

BarryD2

I dunno but if I see a car with L plates, I'm inclined to give that bit more room and allowance. If Ross's law encourages more learner drivers to take the plates down, you'd think that's a bad thing. The old law of unintended consequences, though perhaps quite predictable in this instance.

On other hand, when daughter was learning we had L plates on a car, which I also drove. Mad to see how people would be in a hurry to get past you, even though you'd be tipping along at a good safe speed. So looked at that way, maybe they are a hazard as much as a benefit.

BarryD2

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

There's very few young people learning to drive, back when I learned around 20 years ago it would have been the majority of young people, now it's the minority with rising insurance costs.

Maybe in urban areas and towns but wheels seem to be pretty desirable out in the sticks.

Emely Disgusting Galaxy

Emely Disgusting Galaxy wrote: »

The 2 plates are often left permanently attached to the windscreen and are not magnetic, thus taking up valuable visibility. Gardai at a checkpoint could end up stopping the vehicle if the driver is alone thinking it is a learner, taking up unnecessary time. You're in favour of the 2 plates at once, i've gathered, i'll park that point then.

If you have to display plates then yes if there are multiple drivers I would in no way expect them to have to be put up and taken down all the time.

I don’t think there should be any plates though, N plates especially I have no idea of the point and L plates either I don’t see the point. I drive the same regardless if the car in front has no plates, L plates or N plates, stupid idiotic baby on board stickers etc etc.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Jagger Straight Raccoon wrote: »

If you have to display plates then yes if there are multiple drivers I would in no way expect them to have to be put up and taken down all the time.

I don’t think there should be any plates though, N plates especially I have no idea of the point and L plates either I don’t see the point. I drive the same regardless if the car in front has no plates, L plates or N plates, stupid idiotic baby on board stickers etc etc.

Harder to make out the L/N/Baby on board plates/signs on cars with factory tinted rear windows.

I would be more cautious with an L driver, purely in case they panic or slam on the brakes. Any figures on how many people are on learner permits in the country?

Dravokivich

Emely Disgusting Galaxy wrote: »

Harder to make out the L/N/Baby on board plates/signs on cars with factory tinted rear windows.

I would be more cautious with an L driver, purely in case they panic or slam on the brakes. Any figures on how many people are on learner permits in the country?

I'm no closer to someone without an L badge, than someone with it. Just because they passed a test doesn't mean they are a good driver or that the car is kept, the brakes could be dodgy, tyres worn down.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'm no closer to someone without an L badge, than someone with it. Just because they passed a test doesn't mean they are a good driver or that the car is kept, the brakes could be dodgy, tyres worn down.

Always the 2 second rule in the dry, 4 in the wet

Henry Ford III

Jimbob1977 wrote:

I still see a good few on the motorway, but it's impossible to tell if it's the L driver or another fully licenced family member.


If they have removed their L plates and get caught, the sanction should be doubled.

It should be an offence to display L plates incorrectly

appledrop

We were just talking about this the other night. We always displayed our L plates when learning years ago + I would always have more patience if driving behind an L driver as we all had to learn.

However I can see why you wouldn't display them now. I drive a lot + often come across Garda checkpoints. They usually check tax, insurance etc but never ask for licence. However if you had L plates up that's it car would be taken. So obviously young people going to chance their luck + not put them up as likely they won't ask for licence all time. I thinks it more dangerous as if inexperienced might make mistakes like we all did but people might not keep their distance so more likely to have an accident.

Agent Smith

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

If they have removed their L plates and get caught, the sanction should be doubled.

I still see a good few on the motorway, but it's impossible to tell if it's the L driver or another fully licenced family member.

Cant they be prosecuted for driving without insurance also?

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Agent Smith wrote: »

Cant they be prosecuted for driving without insurance also?

The insurance isn't null and void so to speak, third parties would be covered as obliged under legislation, the policy holder would be liable for their own damage though.

If the driver/vehicle is uninsured the it's off to the M.I.B.I

Dakota Dan

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The smell!

Do you ever get the smell off your river in summer city slicker? Must be from all the p1ss and sh1t that city slickers pour into it.

Dakota Dan

driver02 wrote: »

Any one think the RTÉ ad on L Drivers is a bit harsh

Not a fan of L drivers flouting the law but that Clancy man is a bit of a I won't say in my opinion :mad: I actually know the man that was first on the scene of that accident and there were a lot of facts twisted in that case, the same man wasn't even called to the trial as a witness.

Dakota Dan

Jagger Straight Raccoon wrote: »

I never put up L plates when I was on a provisional purely to stay under the radar. It’s very rarely you get asked for your license at a checkpoint normally once you have your discs in order you are just waved through but L plates re going to get you questioned without doubt.



No it shouldn’t, idiotic rule is what it would be. Cars have multiple drivers, some full, some N and some L or a mix. In my opinion it’s not feasible to keep putting up and taking down plates for different drivers. It’s also pointless, so what if a full driver has L or N plates up etc.

Any time I was stopped at a checkpoint over the last 4 years the first tihing a garda asks for is your licence.

MascotDec85

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Not a fan of L drivers flouting the law but that Clancy man is a bit of a I won't say in my opinion :mad: I actually know the man that was first on the scene of that accident and there were a lot of facts twisted in that case, the same man wasn't even called to the trial as a witness.

Whether or not anyone was called to trial or no reflection of Mr Clancy, that would be the fault of the Gardai or DPS.

Stephen15

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It should be an offence to display L plates incorrectly

That sounds good in theory but then you'd have to throw out the L plates every time a fully qualified driver drives a car used by a learner. I know the magnetic plates do exist but the adhesive ones seem way more popular.

Dakota Dan

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Whether or not anyone was called to trial or no reflection of Mr Clancy, that would be the fault of the Gardai or DPS.

True, but how does the woman that hit them feel every time she sees that ad, and she is a neighbour of theirs as well?

MascotDec85

Stephen15 wrote: »

That sounds good in theory but then you'd have to throw out the L plates every time a fully qualified driver drives a car used by a learner. I know the magnetic plates do exist but the adhesive ones seem way more popular.

There are window cling L plates. Inside the window and non-adhesive. Can be taken on and off.
In the UK people actually take the L plates off when not driven by a learner. It’s an another example of how people can’t be bothered doing things right or coming up with any excuse under the sun as to why it’s so hard to do.

Stephen15

Would it not be better for said individuals to replace the L plates with N plates as that would throw the scent off more than completely removing the L plates as a young looking under 21 person with no L or N plates would look more suspicious than not having any.

I do think now that L or N plates look are pretty ineffective as most people seem to ignore them and treat as normal motorists unless it's obvious such as driving particularly slow or cutting out a number of times.

MascotDec85

Dakota Dan wrote: »

True, but how does the woman that hit them feel every time she sees that ad, and she is a neighbour of theirs as well?

No doubt not as bad as Mr. Clancy feels most wakening moments of every day having to cope with having his wife and daughter taken from him so tragically. I know where my sympathies lie

Stephen15

MascotDec85 wrote: »

There are window cling L plates. Inside the window and non-adhesive. Can be taken on and off.
In the UK people actually take the L plates off when not driven by a learner. It’s an another example of how people can’t be bothered doing things right or coming up with any excuse under the sun as to why it’s so hard to do.

I have those window cling ones myself as I am learner. But I'd think they would lose they're ability to cling to the window if they were constantly being taken on and off.

Dakota Dan

MascotDec85 wrote: »

No doubt not as bad as Mr. Clancy feels most wakening moments of every day having to cope with having his wife and daughter taken from him so tragically. I know where my sympathies lie

True, but I know too many young people that died over someone else's fault but they didn't have to look at a tv ad to keep reminding them of their failures.

Charles Babbage

Jagger Straight Raccoon wrote: »

I never put up L plates when I was on a provisional purely to stay under the radar. It’s very rarely you get asked for your license at a checkpoint normally once you have your discs in order you are just waved through but L plates re going to get you questioned without doubt.

This is why Gardai need ANPR to identify vehicles insured for L drivers or even from the same address.

No it shouldn’t, idiotic rule is what it would be. Cars have multiple drivers, some full, some N and some L or a mix. In my opinion it’s not feasible to keep putting up and taking down plates for different drivers. It’s also pointless, so what if a full driver has L or N plates up etc.

What on earth use is a plate to inform people that you are inexperienced if a load of experienced people drive with them up? Putting up a plate would not take 30 secs. If this is not changed forthwith then the whole thing is obviously not serious however many hard hitting ads they put on the TV.

MascotDec85

Stephen15 wrote: »

I have those window cling ones myself as I am learner. But I'd think they would lose they're ability to cling to the window if they were constantly being taken on and off.

If they’re crumpled up and thrown on the back seat or in the glove box they will. If looked after they won’t.

Sadly, I saw a tester out the other day with a candidate with both L and Ns up.

MascotDec85

Dakota Dan wrote: »

True, but I know too many young people that died over someone else's fault but they didn't have to look at a tv ad to keep reminding them of their failures.

I’m not being funny buts that’s 2 replies you’ve given me which started with “true” then followed up with whataboutery.

If people actually were culpable and responsible for their own actions and did what they were supposed to do, ie. drive safely and accompanied until the state agency deemed them capable of driving alone (then continue to drive like they were taught) we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

I’m in Ireland 18 years. I’m a driving instructor for 8.5 of those years. The excuses that get trotted out every time something is brought in to try and change the mindset of this country is unreal.
When EDT came in I said it would take a generation to get people doing the right thing when it came to learning to drive. I think I underestimated it.

Dakota Dan

MascotDec85 wrote: »

I’m not being funny buts that’s 2 replies you’ve given me which started with “true” then followed up with whataboutery.

If people actually were culpable and responsible for their own actions and did what they were supposed to do, ie. drive safely and accompanied until the state agency deemed them capable of driving alone (then continue to drive like they were taught) we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

I’m in Ireland 18 years. I’m a driving instructor for 8.5 of those years. The excuses that get trotted out every time something is brought in to try and change the mindset of this country is unreal.
When EDT came in I said it would take a generation to get people doing the right thing when it came to learning to drive. I think I underestimated it.

So you're in Ireland 18 years not your entire life I presume? I'm here 54 years and yes I agree you have to abide by the rules and I totally agree about being accompanied by a full licence driver as I did with my son and he didn't drive unaccompanied until he passed the test. I took him out driving every evening for practice and he passed the test first go and is accident free since, 6 years on, touch wood. But I still believe that that man is on over kill. he said that he would never forgive his neighbour which is harsh. I know a twin that accidentally killed his twin and was in bits over it and almost took his life over it but his parents managed to console him, you also have to think of the people that are living with the consequences.

Plumbthedepths

Dakota Dan wrote:

But I still believe that that man is on over kill. he said that he would never forgive his neighbour which is harsh. I know a twin that accidentally killed his twin and was in bits over it and almost took his life over it but his parents managed to console him, you also have to think of the people that are living with the consequences.

The man lost his wife and daughter to the stupidity of another person but you think his response is overkill? Mr Clancy is living with the consequences , I don't think I would have the strength to carry on after seeing my family destroyed. If the ad saves one life its worth it.

MascotDec85

Dakota Dan wrote: »

So you're in Ireland 18 years not your entire life I presume? I'm here 54 years and yes I agree you have to abide by the rules and I totally agree about being accompanied by a full licence driver as I did with my son and he didn't drive unaccompanied until he passed the test. I took him out driving every evening for practice and he passed the test first go and is accident free since, 6 years on, touch wood. But I still believe that that man is on over kill. he said that he would never forgive his neighbour which is harsh. I know a twin that accidentally killed his twin and was in bits over it and almost took his life over it but his parents managed to console him, you also have to think of the people that are living with the consequences.

Until you’ve walked a mile in Noel Clancy’s shoes I don’t think any of us are of the position to say what he should or shouldn’t do or how he should feel or shouldn’t feel.
The other story you tell is, without doubt, tragic but it’s totally incomparable to the one we’re discussing. Any parent would forgive their child for killing their sibling unless it was intentional and even then, some still would. That’s what unconditional love does.
The Clancy situation is another ballpark altogether imo.

Isambard

Jagger Straight Raccoon wrote: »

If you have to display plates then yes if there are multiple drivers I would in no way expect them to have to be put up and taken down all the time.

I don’t think there should be any plates though, N plates especially I have no idea of the point and L plates either I don’t see the point. I drive the same regardless if the car in front has no plates, L plates or N plates, stupid idiotic baby on board stickers etc etc.

and yet they seem to manage it OK on the neighbouring island.

To be honest you would be very foolish not to modify your driving with a learner driver in front of you.The problem and your thinking of course comes from the crazy situation for years when people were allowed drive on a Provisional. It took the Government far to long to get it sorted, but ,if they enforce this, they are going in the right direction now

Stephen15

Stephen15 wrote: »

That sounds good in theory but then you'd have to throw out the L plates every time a fully qualified driver drives a car used by a learner. I know the magnetic plates do exist but the adhesive ones seem way more popular.

Other countries manage. Why not here?

OP, one secondary school in south Tipperary banned learner drivers, both students and teachers from parking in the school car park. One student got around this by turning up on a tractor!

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Deleted User wrote: »

Other countries manage. Why not here?

OP, one secondary school in south Tipperary banned learner drivers, both students and teachers from parking in the school car park. One student got around this by turning up on a tractor!

Does any directive from the Department of Education exist in relation to bringing cars/motorbikes onto school property if they are used/belong to pupils?

Emely Disgusting Galaxy

Emely Disgusting Galaxy wrote: »

Does any directive from the Department of Education exist in relation to bringing cars/motorbikes onto school property if they are used/belong to pupils?

I don’t know. Students always parked in the same car park as teachers in this particular school.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don’t know. Students always parked in the same car park as teachers in this particular school.

And I’d imagine 99% of said students don’t hold a drivers licence.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Clancy ad now on discovery channel. First time seeing it in full. I don’t know what to make of it. Prior to this I only heard audio.

Emely Disgusting Galaxy

Emely Disgusting Galaxy wrote: »

And I’d imagine 99% of said students don’t hold a drivers licence.

This happened about 5 years ago and students were offered a voucher that would allow them park, but they had to produce their driving license and insurance certificates. Some felt it a bit ott.

Dakota Dan

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Any time I was stopped at a checkpoint over the last 4 years the first tihing a garda asks for is your licence.

It’s so long since I was asked for my license that I can’t really remember when it was but at a guess it’s about 8 years ago since I was last asked. I reckon in almost 17 years driving cars on the road I’ve been asked for my license maybe 6 or 7 times at most ever.

I go through checkpoints very very rarely maybe 3 a year and 95% of the ones I’ve gone through don’t even fully stop me just look at the discs as I edge up to them and then start waving me on. The only exception I can think of was where I was stopped at a MAT checkpoint about 5 years ago and breathylised but they still didn’t ask for my license.