Woman tried to abort viable baby because he had Downs syndrome and baby survived

Crock Rock

To be honest I am sickened and nearly brought to tears at the thought of this. I am pro-choice up to 12 weeks and so are the majority of the Irish electorate, as we voted yes to repeal.

However, I am staunchly against abortion on grounds of disability, because for a starters, disabilities are not visible until after the 12 weeks normally and a lot are only really visible when the baby is viable and can survive ex-utero.

This German woman wasn't suffering a crisis pregnancy, she was happy enough to be pregnant but when she realised that she was carrying a boy with Down's Syndrome she chose to kill and innocent child with a disability.

To reiterate I am fully pro-choice up to 12 weeks, but not late term for the grounds of disability. It's eugenics and nothing more. This is something that Adolf Hitler would have done to get a purer Europe.

The innocent baby was placed in a towel aside and doctors only by chance realised that the innocent child was still alive. The "mother" refused to care for the innocent child and instead the innocent child was taken in by loving and caring foster parents.

In my opinion, abortion, especially late term ones on frivolous grounds are disgusting and amount to nothing but murder.

https/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-man-who-survived-abortion-dies-aged-21-1.3752247

sk8erboii

How is she in the wrong?

Crock Rock

sk8erboii wrote: »

How is she in the wrong?

Are you serious?
It wasn't a crisis pregnancy. She was more than happy to be pregnant until she realised the innocent child was disabled.

greencap

shtstorm ahead.

lawred2

Crock Rock wrote: »

To be honest I am sickened and nearly brought to tears at the thought of this. I am pro-choice up to 12 weeks and so are the majority of the Irish electorate, as we voted yes to repeal.

However, I am staunchly against abortion on grounds of abortion, because for a starters, disabilities are not visible until after the 12 weeks normally and a lot are only really visible when the baby is viable and can survive ex-utero.

This German woman wasn't suffering a crisis pregnancy, she was happy enough to be pregnant but when she realised that she was carrying a boy with Down's Syndrome she chose to kill and innocent child with a disability.

To reiterate I am fully pro-choice up to 12 weeks, but not late term for the grounds of disability. It's eugenics and nothing more. This is something that Adolf Hitler would have done to get a purer Europe.

The innocent baby was placed in a towel aside and doctors only by chance realised that the innocent child was still alive. The "mother" refused to care for the innocent child and instead the innocent child was taken in by loving and caring foster parents.

In my opinion, abortion, especially late term ones on frivolous grounds are disgusting and amount to nothing but murder.

https/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-man-who-survived-abortion-dies-aged-21-1.3752247

what?

banie01

O.P should stay the hell out of Iceland if Eugenics is a worry!

michellie

Stop now.

This wont end well

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Crock Rock wrote: »

Are you serious?
It wasn't a crisis pregnancy. She was more than happy to be pregnant until she realised the innocent child was disabled.

Well, the doctor deemed the abortion appropriate. She threatened to kill herself and that was more than likely a manipulative move on her part (from the information we’ve been given anyway) but could the doctor prove that? That’s a tough situation for the doctor to find themselves in.

sk8erboii

Crock Rock wrote: »

Are you serious?
It wasn't a crisis pregnancy. She was more than happy to be pregnant until she realised the innocent child was disabled.

Yes. A disabled child requires more work, which one cant provide if they are financially, emotionally and physically limited.

One of the ethical arguments for abortion is having the choice to not bring a child to conditions that cant accommodate their disability. In other words, save them from suffefing.

SusieBlue

Crock Rock wrote: »

Are you serious?
It wasn't a crisis pregnancy. She was more than happy to be pregnant until she realised the innocent child was disabled.

How do you know it wasn't a crisis, were you there?

oLoonatic

Abortion is always on the grounds of abortion. The anti choice brigade, i.e you (You are fooling no one) need to realise when it is not your body it is not your choice.

jammiedodgers

At least we got Godwins Law out of the way nice and early.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Horrendous story.

What kind of an animal of a doctor agrees to perform such a late term procedure.

Fcker should be struck off.

seamus

Let's see;

New poster
Controversial topic

"I'm pro-choice, but..."

Yeah, the OP came here for reasonable discussion alright...

facehugger99

The OP Godwinned the thread.

Crock Rock

Crock Rock wrote: »

However, I am staunchly against abortion on grounds of abortion

Right.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Crock Rock wrote: »

To be honest I am sickened and nearly brought to tears at the thought of this. I am pro-choice up to 12 weeks and so are the majority of the Irish electorate, as we voted yes to repeal.

However, I am staunchly against abortion on grounds of abortion, because for a starters, disabilities are not visible until after the 12 weeks normally and a lot are only really visible when the baby is viable and can survive ex-utero.

This German woman wasn't suffering a crisis pregnancy, she was happy enough to be pregnant but when she realised that she was carrying a boy with Down's Syndrome she chose to kill and innocent child with a disability.

To reiterate I am fully pro-choice up to 12 weeks, but not late term for the grounds of disability. It's eugenics and nothing more. This is something that Adolf Hitler would have done to get a purer Europe.

The innocent baby was placed in a towel aside and doctors only by chance realised that the innocent child was still alive. The "mother" refused to care for the innocent child and instead the innocent child was taken in by loving and caring foster parents.

In my opinion, abortion, especially late term ones on frivolous grounds are disgusting and amount to nothing but murder.

https/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-man-who-survived-abortion-dies-aged-21-1.3752247

But couldn’t any abortion be classed as frivolous, depending on how one defines ‘frivolous’? You say you are fine with abortions up to 12 weeks. Even for “frivolous” reasons? Is “I don’t feel ready to have a baby.” a frivolous reason? Or “I can’t afford to support a baby.”

D3V!L

How's Donegal these days ? Still hanging onto the 50's ?

Richard Hillman

greencap wrote: »

shtstorm ahead.

If that happened here there would be absolutely zero chance of the media covering it.

Harry Palmr

However, I am staunchly against abortion on grounds of abortion

Ah another troll thread thank god it's Friday.

pleas advice

lawred2 wrote: »

what?

oLoonatic wrote: »

Abortion is always on the grounds of abortion. The anti choice brigade, i.e you (You are fooling no one) need to realise when it is not your body it is not your choice.

seamus wrote: »

Let's see;
New poster
Controversial topic
"I'm pro-choice, but..."
Yeah, the OP came here for reasonable discussion alright...

Deleted User wrote: »

Right.

i presume they meat disability, but whatever...

zapitastas

Would be a tough thing for the fella to process. Feeling of abandonment would be pretty extreme

retro:electro

Crock Rock wrote: »

Are you serious?
It wasn't a crisis pregnancy. She was more than happy to be pregnant until she realised the innocent child was disabled.

Not a crisis pregnancy to you.
Perhaps raising a child with disabilities wasn’t something she thought she could mentally cope with. Those who can, more power to them. Those who decide they can’t, I understand their decision.

Guy:Incognito

This is some case of delayed outrage. The pregnancy was 21 years ago.

lawred2

Crock Rock wrote: »

Are you serious?
It wasn't a crisis pregnancy. She was more than happy to be pregnant until she realised the innocent child was disabled.

And then she wasn't happy because it was disabled.

It would be her burden for life not yours so your bleatings are hollow

eviltwin

Her choice. TBH if I was pregnant with a child with such a disability I'd terminate too.

tretorn

The “Doctor” didnt even inject the bsbys heart.
The baby wasnt even worth that consideration. Baby was born alive and just covered with a towel, just left there with no medical attention for nine hours, if anyone did that to a pup they would be done for animal cruelty.
This twelve week abortion limit is just words. In a case of mental health claims of difficulty babies can be aborted up to viability and beyond, its there under section five of the legislation.
Disabled fortuses will be aborted, in Germany nine out of ten are, most are probsbly sborted on mental health grounds.
I really cant understand how anyone who voted YES professes to be shocked by this, if you give women choice then they will choose and nine out of ten women and their partners dont want children with Downs Syndrome.

gctest50

tretorn wrote: »

..,.........

and nine out of ten women and their partners dont want children with Downs Syndrome.

DS hits really hard in some cases, it's not right to put any living creature through that

Tim suffered from other medical conditions. He was autistic, could barely speak and underwent many operations during his life.

In a statement on their website, they said Tim had died without warning after days after contracting a lung infection.

DEFTLEFTHAND

It's alright to be against what happened in this case folks, it doesn't make you a relic from the 50s.

Follow your conscience.

We just can't condone this in society. The kid was capable of surviving outside the womb, I'm fine with the mother and father not wanting him but allow him to be born ffs, give him that much.

The State will always take care of abandoned children with disabilities, like they did for the duration of this man's life.

SusieBlue

tretorn wrote: »

The “Doctor” didnt even inject the bsbys heart.
The baby wasnt even worth that consideration. Baby was born alive and just covered with a towel, just left there with no medical attention for nine hours, if anyone did that to a pup they would be done for animal cruelty.
This twelve week abortion limit is just words. In a case of mental health claims of difficulty babies can be aborted up to viability and beyond, its there under section five of the legislation.
Disabled fortuses will be aborted, in Hermany nine out of ten are, most are probsbly sborted on mental health grounds.
I really cant understand how anyone who voted YES professes to be shocked by this, if you give women choice then they will choose and nine out of ten women and their partners dont want children with Downs Syndrome.

Fake news, pregnancies can only be terminated after 12 weeks if there is a substantial risk to the life of the mother and/or a FFA. Downs Syndrome is not an FFA.

In the cases where the baby would be viable, it would be a case of the mother being induced/sectioned, labour ensuing, and the baby being born as it would be in a normal delivery (albeit prematurely).
These will be much wanted, much loved babies born in tragic circumstances and will be given every chance of survival with the best medical care.
There will be no abortion taking place.

You are being extremely dishonest and misleading by stating abortions will be happening up till 40 weeks gestation under mental health grounds when this isn't true at all, but what else have we come to expect from the forced birthers.

bilbot79

I just don't have the moral authority to opine on this one. Eek what a thread

begbysback

zapitastas wrote: »

Would be a tough thing for the fella to process. Feeling of abandonment would be pretty extreme

Numerous health issues, seems the doctor didn’t administer the stuff to stop the heart - think rejection was the least of his problems, though on a good note it looks like he did receive an abundance of love and care from his adopted family.

James Brown

Crock Rock wrote: »

To be honest I am sickened and nearly brought to tears at the thought of this. I am pro-choice up to 12 weeks and so are the majority of the Irish electorate, as we voted yes to repeal.

However, I am staunchly against abortion on grounds of disability, because for a starters, disabilities are not visible until after the 12 weeks normally and a lot are only really visible when the baby is viable and can survive ex-utero.

This German woman wasn't suffering a crisis pregnancy, she was happy enough to be pregnant but when she realised that she was carrying a boy with Down's Syndrome she chose to kill and innocent child with a disability.

To reiterate I am fully pro-choice up to 12 weeks, but not late term for the grounds of disability. It's eugenics and nothing more. This is something that Adolf Hitler would have done to get a purer Europe.

The innocent baby was placed in a towel aside and doctors only by chance realised that the innocent child was still alive. The "mother" refused to care for the innocent child and instead the innocent child was taken in by loving and caring foster parents.

In my opinion, abortion, especially late term ones on frivolous grounds are disgusting and amount to nothing but murder.

https/www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-man-who-survived-abortion-dies-aged-21-1.3752247

The fact that she wanted an abortion is fine by me. The circumstances, like the decision, are her own business.
How many times can you put 'Innocent' in a comment? Do you know any fetuses/unborns/innocents with years of criminality under their belt? Stop the codology.
The childer could have been the next Hitler, if we're being ridiculous, or a pro choicer :eek:

Crock Rock

lawred2 wrote: »

what?

You knew well what I meant. I have amended the thread text for you.

SusieBlue wrote: »

How do you know it wasn't a crisis, were you there?

It quite clearly wasn't a crisis pregnancy. If you can't read between the lines.
Most people understand a crisis pregnancy as something that was unplanned and not expected.

She was happy to get pregnant and have a child (if you read the article). She only wanted to kill the innocent child because he had Downe's Syndrome.

Again, to reiterate. I am fully pro choice up to 12 weeks for unplanned (crisis) pregnancies,
but this innocent child was murdered at a viable stage. It's a disgrace and amounts to murder and eugenics. People give out about Hitler and the master race, but this is what the woman was carrying out.

There's quite a simple solution here. Abortion for some, miniature American flags for others. How are people not getting this?

Crock Rock

retro:electro wrote: »

Not a crisis pregnancy to you.
Perhaps raising a child with disabilities wasn’t something she thought she could mentally cope with. Those who can, more power to them. Those who decide they can’t, I understand their decision.

Adoption? Fostering?

Better than murder by a country mile.

Tell me, do you feel any sympathy for the innocent child who was still breathing with a heartbeat who was treated as "medical waste"?

Abortion at 12 weeks is fine, but for disability it's disgusting eugenics and murder.

artanevilla

Crock Rock wrote: »

To be honest I am sickened and nearly brought to tears at the thought of this. I am pro-choice up to 12 weeks......

SusieBlue

Crock Rock wrote: »

You knew well what I meant. I have amended the thread text for you.



It quite clearly wasn't a crisis pregnancy. If you can't read between the lines.
Most people understand a crisis pregnancy as something that was unplanned and not expected.

She was happy to get pregnant and have a child (if you read the article). She only wanted to kill the innocent child because he had Downe's Syndrome.

Again, to reiterate. I am fully pro choice up to 12 weeks for unplanned (crisis) pregnancies,
but this innocent child was murdered at a viable stage. It's a disgrace and amounts to murder and eugenics. People give out about Hitler and the master race, but this is what the woman was carrying out.

Clearly the pregnancy turned into a crisis when the disability was discovered, if you yourself were capable of ‘reading through the lines’.

Not everyone is equipped to parent a child with additional needs, some simply cannot make the sacrifices necessary to bring up a child with a disability and we as outsiders are in no position to judge when we aren’t the ones who are going to be responsible for rearing the child.

Sonic Youth

sk8erboii wrote: »

Yes. A disabled child requires more work, which one cant provide if they are financially, emotionally and physically limited.

One of the ethical arguments for abortion is having the choice to not bring a child to conditions that cant accommodate their disability. In other words, save them from suffefing.

Ok Adolf.

SusieBlue

Crock Rock wrote: »

Adoption? Fostering?

Better than murder by a country mile.

Tell me, do you feel any sympathy for the innocent child who was still breathing with a heartbeat who was treated as "medical waste"?

Abortion at 12 weeks is fine, but for disability it's disgusting eugenics and murder.

Please tell me about all the research you’ve done on the fostering and adoption statistics for this country and why you feel that those are alternatives to abortion.
I’m all ears.

I’m sure as you’ve clearly done your research you are aware that there are currently over 10k children currently in foster care and that only 5 domestic adoptions of infants occurred in 2016 (most recent adoption stats available).

So with both of those numbers in mind, please explain how fostering and adoption are good, viable, realistic alternatives? Thanks.

weldoninhio

If my girlfriend became pregnant and we found out the child would be disabled and a termination was possible, I’d push for it. 100%

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Crock Rock wrote: »

You knew well what I meant. I have amended the thread text for you.



It quite clearly wasn't a crisis pregnancy. If you can't read between the lines.
Most people understand a crisis pregnancy as something that was unplanned and not expected.

She was happy to get pregnant and have a child (if you read the article). She only wanted to kill the innocent child because he had Downe's Syndrome.

Again, to reiterate. I am fully pro choice up to 12 weeks for unplanned (crisis) pregnancies,
but this innocent child was murdered at a viable stage. It's a disgrace and amounts to murder and eugenics. People give out about Hitler and the master race, but this is what the woman was carrying out.

Down Syndrome can be detected as early as ten weeks. So a woman could abort for that reason within the 12 week limit, provided things move briskly. She just wouldn’t have to mention her reason.

As for the case you mention, it happened two decades ago in another jurisdiction. Why are you getting so het up?

tretorn

SusieBlue wrote: »

Fake news, pregnancies can only be terminated after 12 weeks if there is a substantial risk to the life of the mother and/or a FFA. Downs Syndrome is not an FFA.

In the cases where the baby would be viable, it would be a case of the mother being induced/sectioned, labour ensuing, and the baby being born as it would be in a normal delivery (albeit prematurely).
These will be much wanted, much loved babies born in tragic circumstances and will be given every chance of survival with the best medical care.
There will be no abortion taking place.

You are being extremely dishonest and misleading by stating abortions will be happening up till 40 weeks gestation under mental health grounds when this isn't true at all, but what else have we come to expect from the forced birthers.

You are being dishonest. Substantial risks to the mother includes risks to her mental health and in this case she can have an abortion much later than twelve weeks. As I said read section four and five of the legislation.

I am presuming by baby being born prematurely which is a nice way of saying it will be injected through the heart.(if its lucky) If like the unfortuneate twenty one year old who has died he or she will be dragged half formed into the world and left to die cold and hungry. I am sure the German public were assured too that no abortions would be carried out past twelve weeks but they have a clause regarding mental health too and 97 per cent of abortions carried out in the UK are under mental health grounds too.

So stop being disingenous about abortion and what it involves.

We voted for it though so the will of the people must be implemented. Most people didnt quite take in how liberal our abortion regime is but then again disabled children including those with Downs syndrome cost society a lot of money. In any event nowadays Downs syndrome can be identified at eleven weeks or so and its no questions asked for abortion up to twelve weeks.

If the baby in Germany hadnt had Downs syndrome he would have been injected before being aborted and efforts would have been made to help him once he survived his "premature birth". He was deemed worthless by those involved in his abortion, I hope he had a happy life and it sounds as if he did.

suicide_circus

How else will we achieve our Ubermensch goal without these kinds of abortion?

Outlaw Pete

When people can no longer hide behind the sentience argument to justify their taking of a human life they have no option but to show you what they really are about.

Chris_Heilong

Nothing shocking here really, to me a life is a life which is basic science and it does not matter what age the fetus, so this is no different from what most of you people voted in, at the end of the day it is all about convenience really.

SusieBlue

tretorn wrote: »

You are being dishonest. Substantial risks to the mother includes risks to her mental health and in this case she can have an abortion much later than twelve weeks. As I said read section four and five of the legislation.

I am presuming by baby being born prematurely which is a nice way of saying if its lucky it will be injected through the heart. If like the unfortuneate twenty one year old who has died he or she will be dragged half formed into the world and left to die cold and hungry. I am sure the german public were assured too that no abortions would be carried out past twelve weeks but they have a clause regarding mental health too and 97 per cent of abortions carried out in the UK are under mental health grounds too.

So stop being disingenous about abortion and what it involves.

We voted for it though so the will of the people must be implemented. Most people didnt quite take in how liberal our abortion regime is but then again disabled children including those with Downs syndrome cost society a lot of money. In any event nowadays Downs syndrome can be identified at eleven weeks or so and its no questions asked for abortion up to twelve weeks.

If the baby in Germany hadnt had Downs syndrome he would have beeen injected before being aborted and efforts would have been made to help him once he survived his "premature Birth". He was deemed worthless by those involved in his abortion, I hope he had a happy life and it sounds as if he did.

No Tretorn, born prematurely means just that, no dramatic needles through the heart or anything of that nature.
Born in the normal manner albeit prematurely and given every fighting chance of surviving.

You are being highly offensive to women who have to be induced early because of health risks, and women who get the heartbreaking news of an FFA.
As if they’d all let their baby be injected into the heart or be dismembered, these are wanted, loved babies who are born in the most tragic of circumstances.
They are sometimes born silently and sometimes survive for a few hours but are never discarded like rubbish as you are trying to imply.

threescompany

Eviltwin ( how apt) your post makes for sad reading. If you ever had the misfortune of finding yourself in such a distressing circumstance of being pregnant with a Down’s syndrome baby, that you would abort it. You only like perfection do you??
I know there’s people like you where your moral compass is fairly skewed. You’re obviously not one of those “nice” people. Fine i get that. But it’s hard reading your post because it’s like you are implying their disability it so bad, they are not worthy of living. Not that you care . Or all those that liked your post.
Sometimes life throws unexpected things at you. Butvwhen you embrace them you realize they are actually blessings. My sibling has enriched our life and she makes this world a better place. The thoughts that people like you would abort people like her really do make this world a crazy place.

retro:electro

Ugh why is this moron even being entertained

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

When people can no longer hide behind the sentience argument to justify their taking of a human life they have no option but to show you what they really are about.

Well, as someone who voted Yes in the eighth referendum, I was and still am aware that abortion is unpleasant. I’d love if nobody needed an abortion as do many Yes voters. But I wanted proper aftercare for women who have abortions (whatever about the argument over whether abortion itself is a medical procedure, the complications that can follow are medical problems and that’s an inescapable truth) and I wanted underprivileged women and teenagers to have access as they need the choice the most.

Don’t assume that all Yes voters think abortions are sunshine and lollipops. Many of us are simply pragmatic and think the procedure should happen in the best possible circumstances: near home and with aftercare available for as long as is needed with no fear of prosecution.

Alrigghtythen

That's what we want.