Not allowed to take holidays

egarcol

What are the rules around taking holidays ?

My brother was told he can't take holidays in March, June, September or December this year.

And as people have taken hols he can only take a week in May and/or probably 2 weeks in August.

Is this allowed by law ?

Surely there is some law that prohibits this kind of treatment ?

Any info more than welcome.

SusieBlue

Annual leave is at the discretion of your employer. If other colleagues have already block booked certain times of the year off, it makes sense not to allow others to book it off to, in order to keep the business running smoothly.
Most companies allocate annual leave preferences on a seniority basis.

To answer your question in short, your brother is entitled to 20 days annual leave but when he gets to take those days is at the discretion of the employer.

GBX

Law around which?

He has lots of other dates to choose from. Is he annoyed because others got their holidays booked around times he was considering? If so he needs to be quicker at deciding.

Plenty of information on here but as above its at the discretion of the employer when.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html

oLoonatic

Not sure what "treatment" you mean, they still have a business to run. Holidays are generally first come first served. This would have been clearly stated in their contract.

carrieb

Yes my brother had to BEG to get one day off to attend my wedding in Italy! (We had it on a bank holiday wkend so people only really needed to book thr Friday before off.) It was a big deal in his place as it's in the construction sector & they close for set summer and xmas weeks & this is when everyone is off, there are no additional days allowed. Totally legal, depends on the company.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

egarcol wrote: »

What are the rules around taking holidays ?

My brother was told he can't take holidays in March, June, September or December this year.

And as people have taken hols he can only take a week in May and/or probably 2 weeks in August.

Is this allowed by law ?

Surely there is some law that prohibits this kind of treatment ?

Any info more than welcome.

The employer rather than the employee decides when leave is taken.

Tomw86

As everyone has said, it is first come first serve and also at the employer discretion. If he is at Management level then generally if other managers are off they will want to ensure there is cover.

If he has been told he cannot take any in these dates then he needs to decide when he wants and book them up quickly too. I normally look at in December every year and get them in for the following year if possible.

Some companies will say that an employee has to take 2 weeks block booked during the year, as an anti-fraud measure.

TrustedApple

A past company I worked for the day I started I had to book all my hoildays into the system but at max 2 could be off for the day out of the team of 7.

Very hard to know on a day you start a job when you are takeong hoildays ha

Strumms

Same here, we were allowed 2 off at a time from a team of 7. The holiday year started Jan 1st so over Christmas or before I’d sit down with the OH and look at holidays, where and when we wanted to go, prices etc. the allocation of holidays was first come first served so having a work laptop at home enabling me to send an electronic request helped get in ahead of the possee. Well one guy in particular who would turn into work after Christmas with all forms of request signed for the YEAR, but then start bleating when I got in ahead of him. I didn’t give a fûck as he had proved to be the most inflexible of all colleagues when it came to EVERYONE and EVERYTHING but especially holidays.

Seve OB

Tomw86 wrote: »

Some companies will say that an employee has to take 2 weeks block booked during the year, as an anti-fraud measure.

Nothing to do with fraud.
That's the law, everyone is entitled to 2 weeks block holiday

cdeb

But that case is about how some companies will force you to take two weeks off in a row though. And that's an anti-fraud measure. There's been a pattern of people up to shenanigans taking their annual leave in, say, ten long weekends (2 days a pop) so they can get back to ensure their tracks haven't been uncovered.

Perfectly legit, too.

Seve OB

It's per the working time act.
An employee who has worked for 8 months is entitled to 2 unbroken weeks holiday
It is the companies responsibility to ensure the employee gets it.
As I say, they are bound by law, fraud can take a back seat

cdeb

No, you're still missing the point Tomw86 is making.

You can be entitled to two weeks' unbroken annual leave, but you usually take this in blocks of, say, a week at a time, or 2/3 days here and there.

But some companies will force you to take two weeks' annual leave at one go, even if you don't want to, for anti-fraud reasons as I outlined in my post.

amcalester

Seve OB wrote: »

Nothing to do with fraud.
That's the law, everyone is entitled to 2 weeks block holiday

Yes, but some places make it mandatory that you take a 2 week block.

That is not the law, just individual company policy.

El Tarangu

Tomw86 wrote: »

Some companies will say that an employee has to take 2 weeks block booked during the year, as an anti-fraud measure.

By which mechanism would this fraud work - the employee is defrauding their employer somehow(?)

cdeb

Think Nick Leeson in Barings - he was covering his own fraudulent tracks up. But had he been away for two weeks, someone would have had to step into his area, and would probably have uncovered what was going on, or maybe even just said to someone that something wasn't right.

I think it's most common in particularly large companies, especially where big finances are involved. But you could even see it in small finance departments where an employee is putting through fake invoices to get paid to them; those employees are far more likely to only take two days here and there for fear that someone will uncover what they're doing if they take a longer break.

Timberrrrrrrr

El Tarangu wrote: »

By which mechanism would this fraud work - the employee is defrauding their employer somehow(?)

Happens in companies tied to finance mostly.

You have to take 2 weeks off in one block.

Someone else takes over your workload/clients etc.

Any discrepancies or fraud/cover ups that you may have had going would likely show up in those 2 weeks.

Zaph

El Tarangu wrote: »

By which mechanism would this fraud work - the employee is defrauding their employer somehow(?)

It's common in the financial services sector. The thinking behind it is that if someone was up to no good, it mightn't be noticed if they were only off for a week, but it would more than likely be discovered if they were off for two. Jerome Kerviel, the trader who cost Societe Generale €4bn about 10 years ago made a point of never taking more than one or two days leave at a time to ensure that his activities remained undiscovered.

El Tarangu

Thanks for all of the replies - I have a lived a sheltered and unblemished life, it seems

PattyO88

As citizen working time act, Public holidays are paid rest days. Full time employees are entitled to public holiday benefits for the following nine public holidays: New Year Day (1st January), St Patrick’s day (17th March), Easter Monday, The first Monday in May, the first Monday in June, The first Monday in August and The last Monday in October, Christmas day (25th December), St Stephens day (26th December). Part time employees are only entitled to a public holiday benefit if they have worked at least 40 hours in the five weeks preceding the day before the public holiday. When a public holiday falls on a working day (a day on which employee normally works), employee is entitled to a day’s pay for the public holiday. However, if the public holiday falls on a day on which the employee does not normally work, employee is entitled to one-fifth of his normal weekly wage for the public holiday. In respect of a public holiday, an employee has following 4 options as determined by his/her employer: (i) a paid day off on that day; (ii) a paid day off within one month of that day; (iii) an additional day of annual leave; and (iv) an additional day’s pay. If a worker has submitted a request at least 21 days before the public holiday and employer has not nominated any of the above options, employee is entitled to a paid day off on the day of public holiday. .

Weekly Rest Days
An employee shall be entitled to enjoy at least 24 consecutive hours of rest in each period of 7 days, and this should normally follow on from the daily rest period of the preceding shift. An employer may, in lieu of granting the weekly rest period to an employee, provide 2 periods each of at least 24 consecutive hours, in a period of 14 days. The 1 day per week requirement is not applicable where an employer provides for at least 4 rest days during a 4 week period. The minimum weekly rest period does not apply to certain categories of work or workers. The weekly rest day (or days if they are provided as a lump sum over 2 week or 4 week periods) shall be the Sunday unless otherwise provided in the labour contract.

Workers are entitled to a 15-minute rest break after 4.5 hours of work. The rest break is 30 minutes for a 6-hour work period. Rest breaks cannot be granted at the end of the working day. Young workers are entitled to a rest break of at least 30 consecutive minutes after 4.5 hours of work.

The minimum daily rest period is at least 11 consecutive hours in a 24-hour period. Young workers are entitled to at least 12 consecutive hours of rest in a 24-hour period.

cdeb

That...doesn't really answer the question though?

Seve OB

I think you guys are the ones missing the point.
Law supersedes any company policy.
The law states that all employees must have 2 full weeks leave taken in a block. Law.
As an employer it is your responsibility to ensure that you comply with the law and that your staff take this block leave. Some employees might not want to, but they have to. It's the Law!
If you as an employer don't comply and allow your staff to not take their block leave, the employer is the only one who could be in legal trouble. So all employers should ensure their staff all get their 2 weeks block leave ...... To comply with the Law!

Now if if some companies might be subject to fraudulent activities by their employees it is good practice that they put safeguards in place to prevent possible fraud. So if it suits them to say that the block leave is another fraud prevention safeguard that's fine. But it is secondary to the fact that it is law.

Timberrrrrrrr

Seve OB wrote: »

I think you guys are the ones missing the point.
Law supersedes any company policy.
The law states that all employees must have 2 full weeks leave taken in a block. Law.
As an employer it is your responsibility to ensure that you comply with the law and that your staff take this block leave. Some employees might not want to, but they have to. It's the Law!
If you as an employer don't comply and allow your staff to not take their block leave, the employer is the only one who could be in legal trouble. So all employers should ensure their staff all get their 2 weeks block leave ...... To comply with the Law!

Now if if some companies might be subject to fraudulent activities by their employees it is good practice that they put safeguards in place to prevent possible fraud. So if it suits them to say that the block leave is another fraud prevention safeguard that's fine. But it is secondary to the fact that it is law.

Can you point me to this law because honestly in 30+ years i don't recall ever taking 2 weeks off for holidays and have never been told i must.

Seve OB

cdeb wrote: »

No, you're still missing the point Tomw86 is making.

You can be entitled to two weeks' unbroken annual leave, but you usually take this in blocks of, say, a week at a time, or 2/3 days here and there.

But some companies will force you to take two weeks' annual leave at one go, even if you don't want to, for anti-fraud reasons as I outlined in my post.

That's not block leave. That's 2 or 3 days here and there! How can you even consider that to be unbroken leave?

Two weeks unbroken leave means that for 14 consecutive
days you have a complete break from work, don't cross the door, don't visit customers don't check emails....... As in nothing to do with work for 14 full consecutive days.

Seve OB

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Can you point me to this law because honestly in 30+ years i don't recall ever taking 2 weeks off for holidays and have never been told i must.

Organisation of working time act 1997.
A lot of companies don't police it correctly. Mainly smaller ones I would imagine.
If your employer won't give you a full 2 week block you can take a case to the workplace relations commission.

Xaniaj

Seve OB wrote: »

That's not block leave. That's 2 or 3 days here and there! How can you even consider that to be unbroken leave?

Two weeks unbroken leave means that for 14 consecutive
days you have a complete break from work, don't cross the door, don't visit customers don't check emails....... As in nothing to do with work for 14 full consecutive days.

What law are you referring to?

Seve OB

amcalester wrote: »

Yes, but some places make it mandatory that you take a 2 week block.

That is not the law, just individual company policy.

Company policy to comply with the law.

Timberrrrrrrr

Seve OB wrote: »

Organisation of working time act 1997.
A lot of companies don't police it correctly. Mainly smaller ones I would imagine.
If your employer won't give you a full 2 week block you can take a case to the workplace relations commission.

I've never asked for 2 weeks off i have always been happy to take a day or 3 here and there.


This would have been large multinational companies too.

Spook_ie

The annual leave of an employee who works 8 or more months in a leave year includes include an unbroken period of 2 weeks unless provided otherwise under an employment regulation order, registered employment agreement, collective agreement or any agreement between the employee and his or her employer.

Larbre34

El Tarangu wrote: »

By which mechanism would this fraud work - the employee is defrauding their employer somehow(?)

There's a case well known in employment law circles of a civil servant in the Dept of Education
,quite a few years ago, who created a fake teacher. He built all the files for an entirely fictitious person, then paid them every fortnight, accessing the payment himself.

He rarely took leave, odd day here and there, until one year he became ill and missed work for over a month. Only then was the fraud discovered, but something like half a million was already burned up.

Mandatory leave breaks and mobility policies in financial handling jobs are a normal part of fraud prevention and good business management practice.

amcalester

Seve OB wrote: »

Company policy to comply with the law.

Fair enough, can you post a link to that?

I’ve looked but can’t see anything that’s an employee must take 2 weeks unbroken leave.

brightspark

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/20/section/19/enacted/en/html#sec19

"(3) The annual leave of an employee who works 8 or more months in a leave year shall, subject to the provisions of any employment regulation order, registered employment agreement, collective agreement or any agreement between the employee and his or her employer, include an unbroken period of 2 weeks."

cdeb

The exceptions to that are quite broad though - as the quoted paragraph shows.

Usually a company will only insist on it as an anti-fraud measure, as Tomw86 said. Builders' holidays would be another exception.

In any event, the employee in the OP is being allowed, it seems, to take two weeks' leave in August.

So everything seems to be above board from the employer's point of view

Cakerbaker

brightspark wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/20/section/19/enacted/en/html#sec19

"(3) The annual leave of an employee who works 8 or more months in a leave year shall, subject to the provisions of any employment regulation order, registered employment agreement, collective agreement or any agreement between the employee and his or her employer, include an unbroken period of 2 weeks."

Would “subject to the provisions of any” ..... “agreement between the employee and his or her employer” not mean that an employee can decide to not take 2 consecutive weeks as long as their employer agrees

cdeb

It would, yes

brightspark

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/20/section/20/enacted/en/html

Basically all holidays are determined by the employer, subject to sufficient notice etc., all as laid down in the act.