New build: price negotiable?

Sunrise_Sunset

Are new builds price negotiable?
For example, a new phase of houses is launching that we might be interested in. For the last phase, just a few months back, people camped outside the estate agent overnight. All 39 houses sold on the first day.
When I checked the Property Price Register recently, they were listed at all different prices! So I thought maybe some people bargained a better price. But if they queued out overnight, the estate agent/developer would have known they'd sell out pretty quickly and surely they wouldn't have accepted any offers below asking price?
If we decide to go for one of these houses, I'd love to go in at below asking price initially see how it panned out.

Creamy Goodness

Property price register is sale price minus VAT. House prices can vary depending on the amount of rooms/garden size/location on the site. Not all houses in new developments are sold at the “from: €xxxK” price

As you said people were queuing for these houses. You can try low ball but my guess is you’ll end up disappointed.

Stanford

The sale of a house between Sellor and Purchaser is negotiable provided one party is prepared to negotiate, sometimes a development will sell out quickly if the Developer is anxious to sell quickly and move on, have a go.

Sunrise_Sunset

I think I'd be plucky enough to initially go in below asking price. All they can say is no, and then I'd offer the asking price there and then. I wouldn't have thought so before I saw the PPR.
I know that the PPR shows the cost of new builds before VAT. But the prices still appear to vary quite a bit. Pity it doesn't show if they are 2/3/4 bedrooms. Can they charge different prices for south/north facing etc? Although these houses in question are on the same block so they are all facing the same way.

L1011

If they don't all sell immediately you may have a chance - but in the current market it's basically a no.

Different prices may be from custom requests also. If you buy off the plans or otherwise early in construction it's normally possible to request alterations

big syke

lililanny wrote: »

I think I'd be plucky enough to initially go in below asking price. All they can say is no, and then I'd offer the asking price there and then. I wouldn't have thought so before I saw the PPR.
I know that the PPR shows the cost of new builds before VAT. But the prices still appear to vary quite a bit. Pity it doesn't show if they are 2/3/4 bedrooms. Can they charge different prices for south/north facing etc? Although these houses in question are on the same block so they are all facing the same way.

The prices vary due to the finish of the house.

An extra dozen electrical/internet points, external plugs, inclusion or removal of fake fireplaces etc

Sheep Shagger

L1011 wrote: »

If they don't all sell immediately you may have a chance - but in the current market it's basically a no.

Different prices may be from custom requests also. If you buy off the plans or otherwise early in construction it's normally possible to request alterations

As someone who has just bought a new build it was a No on price....

Trying to see if we can tweak a few things as the building progresses- is like pulling teeth

Henry Ford III

If people are camping overnight to ensure they can buy a unit the chances of any discount are pretty low I'd have thought

cruizer101

I can't see any reason a builder would give a discount if there is a queue of people behind you willing to pay asking.
If anything I wouldn't be surprised if some people tried offering more to secure a house before any queuing.

The different house prices are probably down to different finishes maybe even slightly different garden sizes, even if all facing the same way different positions worth different amounts, whats opposite the house, end of culdesac, etc.

GingerLily

If you go in there and annoy them when they have a queue of people behind you they may decide your not worth the hassle.

Henrys Grimey Paws

As others have said, prices are different due to a number of different things. Houses with south or south-westerly facing rear gardens will cost more than east/north facing. In a new build you'll have the option of adding additional electrical points, getting the builders to put in the flooring, adding a gas outlet in the kitchen rather than electric etc.

There's loads of reasons that people will pay more/less than others, in addition some people may have bought the house off plans & they'll likely receive a discount for that.

cruizer101

GingerLily wrote: »

If you go in there and annoy them when they have a queue of people behind you they may decide your not worth the hassle.

This could be true

Builder: Next please, Whats your name, what house are you interested in and have you got deposit.
lililanny: Hi my name is lililanny, I was just wonder on the asking price is there any room for negotiat..
Builder: NEXT

Its not to say there is no chance of it, but given the market at the moment I'd say its not likely. See on the morning based on the queue and that, if big queue I wouldn't bother.

amcalester

You might have more luck negotiating on the price of any alterations you request than the purchase price.

It's something I regret not trying to do when I bought. I got quotes from the builder for some alterations and then said Yes or No based on the price, I didn't try and negotiate.

No idea if he would have agreed to a lower price but from speaking to some of the subbies I worked out he was working off a 35% margin so there probably was room to negotiate.

salmocab

As others have said beyond the actual different house types the variances are more likely to have been peoples particular extras, electrical, paint, skirts and frames, doors, kitchens finish, attic conversions, flooring even the garden are all things some people might have got done by the builder, could be anywhere from a couple of hundred up to 15,000 difference easy enough.

vintagecosmos

I'd say depends on the development. I live near an area where there are multiple developments that have not sold out. Clontarf/malahide/portmarnock area. Granted the prices are pretty steep starting from about 500k.

One of them has houses on the market still after one year from launch.

GingerLily

cruizer101 wrote: »

GingerLily wrote: »

If you go in there and annoy them when they have a queue of people behind you they may decide your not worth the hassle.

This could be true

Builder: Next please, Whats your name, what house are you interested in and have you got deposit.
lililanny: Hi my name is lililanny, I was just wonder on the asking price is there any room for negotiat..
Builder: NEXT

Its not to say there is no chance of it, but given the market at the moment I'd say its not likely. See on the morning based on the queue and that, if big queue I wouldn't bother.

Or they can be more subtle "thank you for query, we'll get back to you in 7 days on that", and sure if they're all sold by then there's nothing to left to buy!

Sunrise_Sunset

I wouldn't leave the queue waiting on a reply. If that were the case, I'd go back in at asking price there and then.
I didn't think there'd be a chance of it, just wondered based on prices I saw on the PPR.

Sunrise_Sunset

salmocab wrote: »

As others have said beyond the actual different house types the variances are more likely to have been peoples particular extras, electrical, paint, skirts and frames, doors, kitchens finish, attic conversions, flooring even the garden are all things some people might have got done by the builder, could be anywhere from a couple of hundred up to 15,000 difference easy enough.

Thank you. That makes more sense. Hadn't thought of it.

listermint

lililanny wrote: »

Thank you. That makes more sense. Hadn't thought of it.

I suppose what your asking is why the difference in prices.

Its very simple different size gardens , different orientations . Closer to or further away from estate entrances all these things impact the initial on the day book value of the houses. Not the finishes as pointed out earlier. Mostly finishes are take it or leave it with little room to negotiate sockets or anything else.

Its generally placement in the estate and your orientation.



And no you won't get any discounts.

salmocab

listermint wrote: »

I suppose what your asking is why the difference in prices.

Its very simple different size gardens , different orientations . Closer to or further away from estate entrances all these things impact the initial on the day book value of the houses. Not the finishes as pointed out earlier. Mostly finishes are take it or leave it with little room to negotiate sockets or anything else.

Its generally placement in the estate and your orientation.



And no you won't get any discounts.

Plenty of people pay the builder extra for extra work, not negotiating on getting extras for cheap but paying a premium to have finishes done before moving in.

Klonker

No chance OP

PukkaStukka

vintagecosmos wrote: »

I'd say depends on the development. I live near an area where there are multiple developments that have not sold out. Clontarf/malahide/portmarnock area. Granted the prices are pretty steep starting from about 500k.

One of them has houses on the market still after one year from launch.

I live in Donabate and there are a number of developments that are not selling here either. The market has maxed out on affordability, and a lot of new builds are high-densityish, no gas supply, no fireplace and electric everything which isn't to everyones tastes. I'm hearing privately that some developers are concerned what way things will go in the market this year, especially with the uncertainty with Brexit.

OP, if you're planning on haggling then go for it. The worst you can be told is no.

The_Conductor

PukkaStukka wrote: »

I live in Donabate and there are a number of developments that are not selling here either. .

West Dublin and North Kildare are exactly the same.
There is saturation at current price points- affordability is putting a brake on proceedings. Absolutely see what you can get thrown into the price- some extra work now- when its easy to do- could be worth its weight in gold later.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained- re: trying to negotiate- worse case scenario- they say no- but in the current market- if stuff isn't shifting- and increasingly, it isn't- its swinging back towards a buyer's market again..........

PukkaStukka

The_Conductor wrote: »

West Dublin and North Kildare are exactly the same.
There is saturation at current price points- affordability is putting a brake on proceedings.

Not only that, but commuting from those areas has become insufferable. Trains at capacity, main roads congested, M50 and interfacing main routes are usually at a standstill. A shortage of schools and affordable childcare. Then on top of that, government policy re the property market is IMO very questionable with initiatives that have increased prices in recent years, presumably to remove some from negative equity and also placate developer needs for what they consider a reasonable return.

At the same time, changes to planning guidelines have seen massively increased densities in locations close to rail, and a relaxing of future height restrictions. I believe this is fundamentally bad because all it does is propogate the sprawl further and further without any commensurate improvements in infrastructure and services. I really do wonder did they learn anything at all from the carnage of a decade ago. Sadly I think not much.

I'm so glad I'm not starting out again like the current first time buyers.

kala85

Does the price of a new build on the property price register include or exclude the help to buy scheme contribution?

Also why is the price on the register put down as excluding VAT for the new builds?

awec

They will 100% tell you no on the day of the launch. You'll be shown a map of available properties, you pick one and they will tell you the price.

They would sooner not sell the property on launch day than give it to you for a reduced offer.

If it still hasn't sold a few weeks later they might entertain it, but then you have to take the risk of it being bought by someone else instead and you ending up with nothing.

GingerLily

kala85 wrote: »

Does the price of a new build on the property price register include or exclude the help to buy scheme contribution?

Also why is the price on the register put down as excluding VAT for the new builds?

Using that help to buy scheme doesn't reduce the price of the house, it just reduces the cost to the buyer from their tax rebate.
Its excluding VAT so multiple by 1.135 to get the purchase price.

kala85

GingerLily wrote: »

Using that help to buy scheme doesn't reduce the price of the house, it just reduces the cost to the buyer from their tax rebate.
Its excluding VAT so multiple by 1.135 to get the purchase price.

So in the case of a first time buyer, the full sale price excluding the vat element will be on the register then. Is that correct?

Victor

Note that houses that are nominally the same in the brochure can actually vary, e.g. end of terrace houses may have a wider site, extra windows, etc. It will often also be in higher demand compared to mid-terrace.

kala85 wrote: »

So in the case of a first time buyer, the full sale price excluding the vat element will be on the register then. Is that correct?

The buyer status is irrelevant to the VAT rate. It is whether the property has been sold before or not (but there are nuances).

GingerLily

kala85 wrote: »

GingerLily wrote: »

Using that help to buy scheme doesn't reduce the price of the house, it just reduces the cost to the buyer from their tax rebate.
Its excluding VAT so multiple by 1.135 to get the purchase price.

So in the case of a first time buyer, the full sale price excluding the vat element will be on the register then. Is that correct?

Yes

kala85

GingerLily wrote: »

Yes

Thanks

smurfette2212

Apologies if this is a daft question, or has been asked before (I can’t find it if so!) but when buying a new build, or looking to buy, from an estate agent rather than the developer, is putting in an offer below the asking price foolish? If there are only a few of the houses left, should you just offer what they ask?

the_syco

How long have the few houses been on the market?

Creamy Goodness

This was asked a couple of days back, thread below a wealth of info

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057944840/1/#post109130873

Graham

Mod Note

Threads merged

smurfette2212

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

This was asked a couple of days back, thread below a wealth of info

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057944840/1/#post109130873

I knew that would happen - I always fear starting a post that already exists. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

smurfette2212

the_syco wrote: »

How long have the few houses been on the market?

I think 2-3 months. 3 have sold, 2 are left. There are other properties in the development but with a different estate agent, I believe.

enricoh

smurfette2212 wrote: »

I think 2-3 months. 3 have sold, 2 are left. There are other properties in the development but with a different estate agent, I believe.

No harm trying. Depends on how stuck the builder is to pay off the crowd financing it.
This brexit lark will surely affect sales, apparently the interest on builders loans is very high. builders might be a lot more willing to negotiate n take a small hit.
Especially if theres a few developments in the area on the go.

The_Conductor

enricoh wrote: »

No harm trying. Depends on how stuck the builder is to pay off the crowd financing it.
This brexit lark will surely affect sales, apparently the interest on builders loans is very high. builders might be a lot more willing to negotiate n take a small hit.
Especially if theres a few developments in the area on the go.

It depends on the developer- but any developer who wants to maintain a private business is looking at interest rates of 12-14% from Irish lenders (even now). Aka- you or I can walk into a bank and secure an overdraft- on better terms than many builders. I've been careful with my choice of wording here- those developers who have alternate financing models and/or business structures (including but not limited to LA or NAMA financing to finish other developments- which themselves are dwindling in number)- can access far better terms.

In short- nothing ventured, nothing gained. One thing I'd suggest though- is look to see whether a developer has had to diversify and shift their sales to alternate venues- is a single main estate agent handling sales- or have multiple agents been appointed- and a chunk of sales moved online. The more people they are trying to involve in the sales- equals the more difficulty they are having in shifting the units- and commensurately, the more likely they are to entertain alternate arrangements with prospective buyers.

Times are changing-its not carnage out there by any means- but the days of queuing to buy something, anything, in the arse-end of nowhere, just to get something- are over...........

happyfriday74

They will take them at asking at first at the point the buyers at queuing up outside. By all means you can try haggle but they will likely just pass you over for another buyer who is willing to put a booking deposit at asking.

What COULD happen is months down the line when the time comes to sign contracts and pay the non refundable contract deposit one of the buyer at asking may pull out at that point( found another house, change of circumstances etc) and they may go back to you if they are in a hurry to sell out the phase.

No guarantees though and I really wouldn't bet on it as they will be calling all the people who were offering full asking who missed the chance to place a booking deposit before they call you.

If they do they will expect you to be ready to go and complete asap.

Best of luck!

Edgware

There can be a bit of flexibility in buying new builds depending on demand for the property. If not on price it could be a higher grade of kitchen/bathroom etc.
However where people are lining up with deposits you wont get too much

happyfriday74

I nearly got a new build cheaper than asking. House was lets say €15 but was sold at €17 as they added a small extension.

I was bidding on another house and the seller took it off the market.

In the meantime a friend who bought in a new estate we liked told me he heard one of the nearby houses was having issues closing due to a purchaser playing games returning a contract. The other party has 3 months late returning the contract and he said the builder was going to pull the sale and wanted the house sold before xmas and likely to take a small discount if we could complete quickly.

We put in an offer of 15 which was less than what it was agreed for but said we would be able to complete within a few weeks and no messing. Builder said fair enough and he would talk his partner.

Builder came back and said that he told the other party they were walking and going with an underbidder(i.e us).

I got a call a few days later and apparently the original buyer suddenly came to the builder and assured them they would complete the purchaser and we were told there would be no deal.

By chance the sellers of the original house we wanted had a change of heart, reapproached us and decided to sell to us after all. We promptly exchanged contracts.

A week before closing the original house, the builder of the second house called me up and loe and behold his original purchaser was playing games again and said our original deal was back on the table. I told him at this stage I was committed to the other house and wasn't able to follow up.

As you can see, there a lot of ifs and buts and luck is going to be the only factor.

Dearg81

My next door neighbour got their new build 4 bed house for less than the asking price while I had to queue for my 3 bed. This was a couple of years ago and it was on the market for around 1 year but it shows that it can be done.

Sunrise_Sunset

There is another new development we are interested. A small development of 8 houses. Listed at 400k. 2 are unsold. Do you think an offer for less could be made on these?

happyfriday74

lililanny wrote: »

There is another new development we are interested. A small development of 8 houses. Listed at 400k. 2 are unsold. Do you think an offer for less could be made on these?

By all means try but selling season is coming up soon in spring.Reckon they will push the houses hard then to try get asking or above.

Also if they are only sale agreed and haven't had contracts signed on the 6 others they might be worried about the other buyers getting wind of them giving you a discount and try price chip themselves.

lfen

Hi, wondering if anyone went ahead and offered less than asking and could share how they got on? New development with about 10 houses left, which have been on sale now 5 months. Work on another phase due to start in the next couple of months.

duffman13

I made an offer about 3 months back on a small development which was overpriced in my opinion. The developers agent laughed, houses were listed at 485k and I offered 445k. Granted it's a considerable money difference but I'm not a first time buyer and it felt overpriced to me so I just walked away. Got a phone call Friday, 5 of the 8 units still available and asking price is 465 but if I'm in a position to move quickly there could be wiggle room.

So I'm sure there is a possibility however it really depends on the development and the interest in it. Offer What you would be willing to pay to live there for the next 30 or 40 years. I wasn't interested in the price drop as it still wasn't where I wanted to go pricewise so I left it there.

paddy1892

Interested in the last house in a development, it's the show-house. Think it was put on the market the back end of 2019. The actual development was originally released in 2018.

Reckon I bid the asking price or go slightly lower? Just wary in case another person came in with the asking price whilst they considered ours...

lfen

paddy1892 wrote: »

Interested in the last house in a development, it's the show-house. Think it was put on the market the back end of 2019. The actual development was originally released in 2018.

Reckon I bid the asking price or go slightly lower? Just wary in case another person came in with the asking price whilst they considered ours...

The show house is generally more expensive than the other houses. We were told to add €35k in the estate we are looking to buy in.

No real harm going in lower though. I’m sure the EA would let you know if someone came in with a higher bid to give you the opportunity to go higher.

paddy1892

lfen wrote: »

The show house is generally more expensive than the other houses. We were told to add €35k in the estate we are looking to buy in.

No real harm going in lower though. I’m sure the EA would let you know if someone came in with a higher bid to give you the opportunity to go higher.

Thanks, yeah it's a good bit higher. Around €45k. It's well kitted out though.

PukkaStukka

paddy1892 wrote: »

Interested in the last house in a development, it's the show-house. Think it was put on the market the back end of 2019. The actual development was originally released in 2018.

Reckon I bid the asking price or go slightly lower? Just wary in case another person came in with the asking price whilst they considered ours...

The fact that it's the last house and hasn't sold by now speaks for itself. There's either no demand or its overpriced