GDPR and schools

judeboy101

We have a staff meeting next month on this crap just wondering what other schools are doing/changing.

byhookorbycrook

Have ye not your policy drawn up already?

judeboy101

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Have ye not your policy drawn up already?

Nope, chatting to friends from other schools , most don't have gdpr specific one, only old data protection

mtoutlemonde

judeboy101 wrote: »

Nope, chatting to friends from other schools , most don't have gdpr specific one, only old data protection

Was it not discussed at the start of the year? Careful with student data, no bringing home work or being very careful about it, logging out of vsware, using initials instead of names, disposal of year planner etc.

byhookorbycrook

I’m primary , our policy was done before the summer holidays , as were any schools’ I know .
Are you secondary ?

trihead

Might be useful - https://gdpr4schools.ie

judeboy101

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Was it not discussed at the start of the year? Careful with student data, no bringing home work or being very careful about it, logging out of vsware, using initials instead of names, disposal of year planner etc.

Don't bring home work??

mtoutlemonde

judeboy101 wrote: »

Don't bring home work??

Yes it was mentioned but probably not enforced. You have student information with you and should not be removed from school.

dar100

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Was it not discussed at the start of the year? Careful with student data, no bringing home work or being very careful about it, logging out of vsware, using initials instead of names, disposal of year planner etc.

Homework is not covered under data protection. Financial, health etc are.

If you have a previous data protection policy that is fairly comprehensive the changes should be small enough.

judeboy101

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Yes it was mentioned but probably not enforced. You have student information with you and should not be removed from school.

So the law says no, but ignore the law. Lol. I assume if in your policy and you don't adhere you get the blame not the boss?

judeboy101

dar100 wrote: »

Homework is not covered under data protection. Financial, health etc are.

If you have a previous data protection policy that is fairly comprehensive the changes should be small enough.

If a homework copy has a name of student and formative assessment comments about their work is that not personal data? Is it not similar to a medical file with a patients name and doctors notes on that patients fitness?

mtoutlemonde

judeboy101 wrote: »

So the law says no, but ignore the law. Lol. I assume if in your policy and you don't adhere you get the blame not the boss?

Well I can't see the boss checking bags on the way out 😀 Personally it doesn't bother me as I stay behind maybe once a week to do some correcting.

mtoutlemonde

judeboy101 wrote: »

If a homework copy has a name of student and formative assessment comments about their work is that not personal data? Is it not similar to a medical file with a patients name and doctors notes on that patients fitness?

Yes and as a language teacher, you have paragraphs about family, friends, pastimes, future plans etc.

uck51js9zml2yt

dar100 wrote: »

Homework is not covered under data protection. Financial, health etc are.

If you have a previous data protection policy that is fairly comprehensive the changes should be small enough.

If the person is identifiable by it then it's personal data.
I assume the student's name is on it.

judeboy101

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Well I can't see the boss checking bags on the way out 😀 Personally it doesn't bother me as I stay behind maybe once a week to do some correcting.

Why should boss care, if its in policy and you lose a copy or an Xmas test its your fault not his. Jesus wept, I'm bricking it at thoughts of this meeting. This is that reporter thing in bullying all over again.

judeboy101

Luna Crashing Tractor wrote: »

If the person is identifiable by it then it's personal data.
I assume the student's name is on it.

Most students put their names on their homework copies.

judeboy101

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Yes and as a language teacher, you have paragraphs about family, friends, pastimes, future plans etc.

So is it a case of "you can't bring them home, but sure if you do just don't lose any"?

368100

Would the school be designated as the data controller though if the data is written by students? Surely they own the data.

judeboy101

368100 wrote: »

Would the school be designated as the data controller though if the data is written by students? Surely they own the data.

But they give the copy to teacher to correct, under the assumption teacher doesn't lose it or let their 10 yr old post pictures of "daddy's stupid first years homework" on Instagram.

KathleenGrant

Judeboy101 seems to have a terrible attitude. Not teacher bashing. Have the height of respect for the profession.

Get Real

Luna Crashing Tractor wrote: »

If the person is identifiable by it then it's personal data.
I assume the student's name is on it.

But say a copy is lost and it has "John Murphy" on the front. Who is John Murphy? Could he anyone. They wouldn't be identifiable by it.

I'm just confused that everyone and every place is jumping on the GDPR bandwagon.

What part of GDPR covers bringing home students homework to correct that the old Data Protection Act didn't cover?

It was my belief GDPR was brought in to strengthen rights, already present in the Data Protection Act, and clarify new ones with regard to selling people's email addresses, contact details, DOB etc, primarily for marketing purposes and financial gain.

uck51js9zml2yt

Get Real wrote: »

But say a copy is lost and it has "John Murphy" on the front. Who is John Murphy? Could he anyone. They wouldn't be identifiable by it.

I'm just confused that everyone and every place is jumping on the GDPR bandwagon.

What part of GDPR covers bringing home students homework to correct that the old Data Protection Act didn't cover?

It was my belief GDPR was brought in to strengthen rights, already present in the Data Protection Act, and clarify new ones with regard to selling people's email addresses, contact details, DOB etc, primarily for marketing purposes and financial gain.

It aslo may have a reference to the school.

It was deemed recently that an exam script was personal data as the person could be identified by a number.

Masala

Does GDPR not start at 13 yrs??? Not applicable below that???

Get Real

Luna Crashing Tractor wrote: »

It aslo may have a reference to the school.

It was deemed recently that an exam script was personal data as the person could be identified by a number.

Fair enough, I do get yhat, don't get me wrong. I'm just wondering with all this GDPR stuff across the board. The Data Protection Act was in place for years.

What part of GDPR suddenly applies to teachers bringing students homework home that the Data Protection Act didn't already cover.

Either it's a) organisations scrambling to do something they should have always been doing (better late than never though I suppose)

Or b) companies and people pushing GDPR training and obviously they've their own vested interests in that by making money off it.

I guess it's just a question in my own head, I'm just sometimes confused by the impact on things such as a teacher in possession of a students homework. Why is it suddenly now important, but it wasn't two years ago. It's box ticking and ass covering, but nobody can say what has changed.

judeboy101

Get Real wrote: »

Fair enough, I do get yhat, don't get me wrong. I'm just wondering with all this GDPR stuff across the board. The Data Protection Act was in place for years.

What part of GDPR suddenly applies to teachers bringing students homework home that the Data Protection Act didn't already cover.

Either it's a) organisations scrambling to do something they should have always been doing (better late than never though I suppose)

Or b) companies and people pushing GDPR training and obviously they've their own vested interests in that by making money off it.

I guess it's just a question in my own head, I'm just sometimes confused by the impact on things such as a teacher in possession of a students homework. Why is it suddenly now important, but it wasn't two years ago. It's box ticking and ass covering, but nobody can say what has changed.

Aren't penalties stronger

uck51js9zml2yt

judeboy101 wrote: »

Aren't penalties stronger

Penalties are stronger but so also are data subjects rights.

Though the current legislation is built on the old trans European acts, it's stronger.

rainbowtrout

judeboy101 wrote: »

Why should boss care, if its in policy and you lose a copy or an Xmas test its your fault not his. Jesus wept, I'm bricking it at thoughts of this meeting. This is that reporter thing in bullying all over again.

Because under GDPR legislation you are supposed to report a breach of data protection within 72 hours, if there has been one. So you losing a copy belonging to a student with information in the copy that identifies a student could be considered a data breach.

Maybe your principal doesn't care if you lose a copy or not, but if that child asks for the copy, and you say you lost it (after fobbing them off several times), it only takes one parent 'who knows their right's' to make a complaint about there being a data breach, and it could lead to a potential fine for the school. So some schools just don't want the hassle and put a blanket ban on taking copies out of school.

GDPR legislation meant that this year for the first time students were able to take photographs of their LC papers at the viewing sessions as they were considered personal data/documents and could be identified by their exam number.

In my school you can only view student profiles on VS Ware for students you teach. So if you don't teach third years but you do take the U16 football team after school, tough luck putting in a random student name to find out what class the 3As are in so you can give them a message about the match as you don't have access. Go and ask the secretary or spend your time traipsing around the building looking in windows of classrooms to find the class.

amacca

Somewhere along the line its all gone a bit Pete Tong.

gaiscioch

Great news. This is clearly the Department's way of insisting teachers have more work-life balance? Once I was able to stay in the school until 6pm, when the caretaker would usually close up, and get homework done. When there were school events on at night I would plough through corrections until the school closed so that all my home time was my own.

Then they turned off the heat immediately after the school day to save money so I had to leave my draughty old room for the warmth of home to do corrections at my own heat etc expense. Although this is far from ideal with little ones often needing loads of attention, I've been correcting most things - including, ahem, *marking* all SEC exams - at home ever since. This imposed alternative to my current 'How-long-does-it-take-to-burn-out' path is going to give my life back weeks upon weeks each year.

Thank you, Data Protection legislation.

Bards

GDPR and the laws of unintended consequences go hand in hand

joebloggs32

This stuff about homework is a load of horse manure.
If principals have stopped teachers bringing them home there must be someone out there on the lecture circuit really scaremongering.
You can bring home copies as it is a normal part of your duties. You have a reason to access the students "data" that is legitimate. Just put it in your GDPR policy if your worried. There would be some craic waiting for the mocks to be corrected if it all had to be done in the school building!

What is important would be making sure to keep all sensitive and personal data secure, and only using it for the authorised purposes. Make sure enrolment forms explicitly ingorm the parents/guardians of the relevant GDPR policies.

rainbowtrout

joebloggs32 wrote: »

This stuff about homework is a load of horse manure.
If principals have stopped teachers bringing them home there must be someone out there on the lecture circuit really scaremongering.
.

Some principals follow a common sense approach and some are more letter of the law types. In the school 10 miles down the road from where I work there are no photos of students on the walls of the school as a result of GDPR.

I’d imagine many schools have year group photos, football teams etc on their walls as part of the history of the school and student achievements.

RealJohn

rainbowtrout wrote: »

In my school you can only view student profiles on VS Ware for students you teach. So if you don't teach third years but you do take the U16 football team after school, tough luck putting in a random student name to find out what class the 3As are in so you can give them a message about the match as you don't have access. Go and ask the secretary or spend your time traipsing around the building looking in windows of classrooms to find the class.

Ours is the same, and it’s a right pain. It means that if you see a student you don’t teach misbehaving, you can’t put a report on vsware yourself, or if a group of students you don’t teach is helping you with something, you can’t give them a positive report on vsware either.

We’ve been told that that’s a problem with vsware and that it shouldn’t be the case, but I was suspicious of that excuse already, before hearing that other schools are having the same issue.

judeboy101

joebloggs32 wrote: »

This stuff about homework is a load of horse manure.
If principals have stopped teachers bringing them home there must be someone out there on the lecture circuit really scaremongering.
You can bring home copies as it is a normal part of your duties. You have a reason to access the students "data" that is legitimate. Just put it in your GDPR policy if your worried. There would be some craic waiting for the mocks to be corrected if it all had to be done in the school building!

What is important would be making sure to keep all sensitive and personal data secure, and only using it for the authorised purposes. Make sure enrolment forms explicitly ingorm the parents/guardians of the relevant GDPR policies.

Correcting copies is not in a teachers contract, unless I'm mistaken. Most teachers full time have a "contract" to teach for 21hrs 20mins. There is another 40mins a week which may be used for "feedback" which could be correcting homework but as this feedback is linked to new jc that would be formative not summative correcting.

mtoutlemonde

RealJohn wrote: »

Ours is the same, and it’s a right pain. It means that if you see a student you don’t teach misbehaving, you can’t put a report on vsware yourself, or if a group of students you don’t teach is helping you with something, you can’t give them a positive report on vsware either.

We’ve been told that that’s a problem with vsware and that it shouldn’t be the case, but I was suspicious of that excuse already, before hearing that other schools are having the same issue.

It's the school who decides what teachers can do on VSWare. Was in a school where you could only see your comment for your student so you couldn't see if other teachers were writing positive or negative remarks. Now that was a pain.

doc_17

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Was it not discussed at the start of the year? Careful with student data, no bringing home work or being very careful about it, logging out of vsware, using initials instead of names, disposal of year planner etc.

You are of course correct.

But I’ll dispose my year planner when they compensate me for it! I like having it to look back on as a reference point. I’ll be keeping mine.

r93kaey5p2izun

We were told the opposite about planners last May - that they must be retained until the students covered have left the school 7 years.

mtoutlemonde

doc_17 wrote: »

You are of course correct.

But I’ll dispose my year planner when they compensate me for it! I like having it to look back on as a reference point. I’ll be keeping mine.

I have mine aswell - don't know why but there there 😁

Kinsley Panicky Knitting wrote: »

We were told the opposite about planners last May - that they must be retained until the students covered have left the school 7 years.

School diaries returned to office for shredding/storage - don't know what they do with them. You're own is your own - dispose/keep.

AndrewJRenko

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

You're own is your own - dispose/keep.

Does it contain personal data?

mtoutlemonde

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Does it contain personal data?

Yes but it's your property.

AndrewJRenko

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Yes but it's your property.

GDPR laws still apply. The best way to avoid the laws is to destroy the data.

doc_17

It contains my personal data as well. If the school tell me it isn’t mine to do with what I please then I be purchasing one next year.

It’s all gone crackers.

spurious

God help us what a lot of nonsense.

evolving_doors

Be very careful of destroying your notes. I know of a court case (injury claim) where the notes a teacher took 5 years prior absolved them/school as it showed correct procedures were followed and the former students' statement was unreliable.
Similarly if you're meeting with parents you can take notes.... recap with the parents at the end. It's happened on quite a few occasions where a parent subsequently claims " I never agreed to that" and you can refer to your notes.

Do the Gardaí destroy their notebooks?

I reckon it's logical to take notes if it reasonably pertains to a student/your work same as a doctor or psychologist. The problem arises of how theyr stored. Also if it has a students name on it I presume its open to a request to view it by parents. But in that instance it would be reasonable to redact other students info imo .

AndrewJRenko

doc_17 wrote: »

It contains my personal data as well. If the school tell me it isn’t mine to do with what I please then I be purchasing one next year.

It’s all gone crackers.

spurious wrote: »

God help us what a lot of nonsense.

Is it really crackers or nonsense to expect that records made in a professional capacity are professionally managed? These records could include details about abilities or disabilities of children, possibly references to sensitive family issues, maybe references to fellow teachers.


Or put it another way, would you be happy if your doctor or your physio (or your child's doctor or your child's speech therapist) was making notes about you as a patient and taking the records home, maybe to their house share with other professionals?

evolving_doors

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is it really crackers or nonsense to expect that records made in a professional capacity are professionally managed? These records could include details about abilities or disabilities of children, possibly references to sensitive family issues, maybe references to fellow teachers.


Or put it another way, would you be happy if your doctor or your physio (or your child's doctor or your child's speech therapist) was making notes about you as a patient and taking the records home, maybe to their house share with other professionals?

I think what's maddening a lot of teachers is that they are being told NOT to take any notes or send emails with a student's name associated with it. information has to be verbally transmitted.
Of course I'd agree that there's an element of risk involved once the data leaves the school and that needs to be explored.
I think there was a case last year of a teacher who had given kids pages to bring home and colour.... but didn't realise that very detailed notes on a child with a serious additional need were on the other side.

AndrewJRenko

evolving_doors wrote: »

I think what's maddening a lot of teachers is that they are being told NOT to take any notes or send emails with a student's name associated with it. information has to be verbally transmitted.
Of course I'd agree that there's an element of risk involved once the data leaves the school and that needs to be explored.
I think there was a case last year of a teacher who had given kids pages to bring home and colour.... but didn't realise that very detailed notes on a child with a serious additional need were on the other side.

The verbal thing doesn't sound like a good idea either. There is nothing wrong with good records, once they are properly managed. I can see the concern about email, as it is much more difficult to manage those records after the fact.


Is the 'verbal only' policy an official one or unofficial?

evolving_doors

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The verbal thing doesn't sound like a good idea either. There is nothing wrong with good records, once they are properly managed. I can see the concern about email, as it is much more difficult to manage those records after the fact.


Is the 'verbal only' policy an official one or unofficial?

being official depends on the school. Some schools say to discuss verbally. Others say "don't take any notes"... Others say "be careful about taking any notes. Others said nothing.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

doc_17 wrote: »

It contains my personal data as well. If the school tell me it isn’t mine to do with what I please then I be purchasing one next year.

Please don't keep your own copies of notes on student - it's not your place to do so. I don't want information about my kids floating around in someone's private possession.

If you aren't willing to take data protection seriously, then don't teach. The rest of the professional world has to adhere to the same standards.

spurious

Joey Yellow Stage wrote: »

Please don't keep your own copies of notes on student - it's not your place to do so. I don't want information about my kids floating around in someone's private possession.

If you aren't willing to take data protection seriously, then don't teach. The rest of the professional world has to adhere to the same standards.

Why would anyone keep private notes on a child? I cannot think of any reason to do so.

State exam results, contact addresses, names of guardians etc., all things that might be asked for or useful in the future.
We regularly had men come in up to 25 years after they had left school looking for proof of exam results - and we had them for them, in a secure location.

AndrewJRenko

spurious wrote: »

Why would anyone keep private notes on a child? I cannot think of any reason to do so.

State exam results, contact addresses, names of guardians etc., all things that might be asked for or useful in the future.
We regularly had men come in up to 25 years after they had left school looking for proof of exam results - and we had them for them, in a secure location.

And there is nothing in GDPR that stops schools doing this - once they have proper policies and proper controls - including the right to have data deleted and the right to be forgotten.