Illegal coursing on private lands

Panch18

Lads we are absolutely plagued with people coming onto the land for illegal coursing.

Have called the Gardai on several occasions now and to be honest they have done little or nothing, not arriving when called out, taking ages to come out so the people have moved off by the time they get there

Is anybody else having the same problem? Are you having any success with the Garda?

What can be done about this scourge? I know that there have been several meeting held around the country, did anybody attend and what was said?

Thanks

blue5000

Mod note; Sorry OP I had to edit the opening post to keep the PC brigade happy. Just be careful what is said online, anybody can read what goes up here.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Panch18 wrote: »

Lads we are absolutely plagued with people coming onto the land for illegal coursing.

Have called the Gardai on several occasions now and to be honest they have done little or nothing, not arriving when called out, taking ages to come out so the people have moved off by the time they get there

Is anybody else having the same problem? Are you having any success with the Garda?

What can be done about this scourge? I know that there have been several meeting held around the country, did anybody attend and what was said?

Thanks

I was at one here in Kerry. Basically we were told not to confront these people, to ring 999 and the nearest available squad car will be sent when it is available, basically crashes and crime scenes rate higher.


They aren't breaking any criminal law, according to the Gardai present. There is no criminal law preventing anyone walking around your land with or without dogs, they are only breaking civil law. That case would have to be taken by you against them in court.



Now, if they enter your yard on any pretext, they are breaking criminal law as they are trespassing and the Gardai have to come to investigate but only where there is nothing more pressing for them to investigate like crashes, injuries etc.


If they are hunting hares or badgers, the Gardai will have to investigate as those are protected species with tightly defined reasons for their removal. But unless the Gardai find them in possession of live or dead animals, they are powerless to act. Likewise, if you confront them, they can just say they are hunting rabbits and tell you to fcuk off and there is nothing you can do.


There is a text alert around here telling us where they are coming from and a few phone calls will gather a few lads to just stand blocking their paths and keep them from doing any damage like a few weeks ago when an elderly neighbour had a ewe driven into his yard and killed.


Don't confront them! When a lad in a neighbouring parish confronted them, he was told they would burn his house down around him so best thing is just get organised and watch them in force. Anything else and it's yourselves that will be facing charges and that's no use to anybody.

Cattlepen

The law will have to be changed if they can’t be charged. Is trespass not a chargeable offense? Also worrying livestock? I think the Gardai are just looking for an easy way out towards tackling our idiginous bare knuckle champions

aaakev

Cattlepen wrote: »

The law will have to be changed if they can’t be charged. Is trespass not a chargeable offense? Also worrying livestock? I think the Gardai are just looking for an easy way out towards tackling our idiginous bare knuckle champions

Worrying livestock? Shoot them. (The dogs, not the 'humans')

patsy_mccabe

Shoot, shovel & shut up.

High bike

You could always ring the Gardai and tell em u have trespassers and ur taking a walk down the fields with you gun.Bet they’ll be out to you in a hurry

Cattlepen

I said it before to all the “want to be John Wayne’s” on this site, forget about the gun!! That is just stupid s**ttalk. Best case scenario with the gun is you will be arrested and charged for something or other and worst case is that they will take it off you and beat you unconscious with it. So grow up and forget about being a big man with a gun. Any way if yer tough enough to challenge them would an ash plant not do you?
And also, I learned this the hard way so I know what i’m Talking about

memorystick

Sorry to hear that cattlepen.

A farmer near here had travelers on his land with dogs. They frightened the cows in the shed. He told them not to come near the sheds again. They did not adhere. The next time they came back he shot the 2 dogs. A job well done.

Mad_maxx

Unlike the travellers, most don't have the time to take off work while recovering in hospital and unlike the travellers, hospital isn't free

Joe Daly

Is it the building boom is brining these lads back from England that because another thing is becoming a serious problem is fly tipping loads of rubble ,refuse , been tipped in gate ways late at night.

patsy_mccabe

When I was a young teenager, this traveller around my own age took my hurley from the front lawn of the house. I arrived over to his caravan and told him I wanted my hurley back. Only himself and younger sister there at the time. He sent her into the caravan for a knife. Out she comes with a big long carving knife. I told him I wasn't leaving without it and eventually he handed it over. I still even remember his name.

Say my name

Joe Daly wrote: »

Is it the building boom is brining these lads back from England that because another thing is becoming a serious problem is fly tipping loads of rubble ,refuse , been tipped in gate ways late at night.

The results of the vegan anti trust, resentment, we are all destroying the planet, diet related reduced IQ, billboard campaign.

Whatever it is. Action needs to be taken now by the authorities with serious consequences dolled out.

Panch18

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I was at one here in Kerry. Basically we were told not to confront these people, to ring 999 and the nearest available squad car will be sent when it is available, basically crashes and crime scenes rate higher.


They aren't breaking any criminal law, according to the Gardai present. There is no criminal law preventing anyone walking around your land with or without dogs, they are only breaking civil law. That case would have to be taken by you against them in court.



Now, if they enter your yard on any pretext, they are breaking criminal law as they are trespassing and the Gardai have to come to investigate but only where there is nothing more pressing for them to investigate like crashes, injuries etc.


If they are hunting hares or badgers, the Gardai will have to investigate as those are protected species with tightly defined reasons for their removal. But unless the Gardai find them in possession of live or dead animals, they are powerless to act. Likewise, if you confront them, they can just say they are hunting rabbits and tell you to fcuk off and there is nothing you can do.


There is a text alert around here telling us where they are coming from and a few phone calls will gather a few lads to just stand blocking their paths and keep them from doing any damage like a few weeks ago when an elderly neighbour had a ewe driven into his yard and killed.


Don't confront them! When a lad in a neighbouring parish confronted them, he was told they would burn his house down around him so best thing is just get organised and watch them in force. Anything else and it's yourselves that will be facing charges and that's no use to anybody.

Thanks for that BT

I don’t understand how it can be trespass if they are around your yard but not if they are on your land? That sounds a bit strange to me

Any solicitors on here that could clarify?

Panch18

blue5000 wrote: »

Mod note; Sorry OP I had to edit the opening post to keep the PC brigade happy. Just be careful what is said online, anybody can read what goes up here.

It’s hard to call a spade a spade nowadays!!

Buford T. Justice XIX

Panch18 wrote: »

Thanks for that BT

I don’t understand how it can be trespass if they are around your yard but not if they are on your land? That sounds a bit strange to me

Any solicitors on here that could clarify?

No idea either, Panch, but that's what the Gardai told us.



By rights, stuff like that should be started to get dealt with by Community Gardai but, despite the commitment to have Community Gardai everywhere, there are none in rural Ireland, all are in urban areas.


And a wholesale shortage of Gardai in rural Ireland. Just take Kerry. We have 300 Gardai in the county. 3 shifts so around 100 on each shift. Take out those on holidays, days off, sick, office duty and courts, we have probably 80 Gardai available at any 1 time to cover an area of approx. 100km long by 80km wide so any calls made to the Gardai from anywhere outside a town is going to take a hell of a long time before it's answered. And that's assuming they even have a squad car to answer the call.



There are local and European elections coming up this year and probably an election next year so it might be a good idea to point out the our local representatives how unrepresented we feel on issues like this when they call.

CrankyHaus

Panch18 wrote: »

Thanks for that BT

I don’t understand how it can be trespass if they are around your yard but not if they are on your land? That sounds a bit strange to me

Any solicitors on here that could clarify?

I'm not a solicitor, but the criminal offence of trespass is restricted to buildings and their curtilages.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/2/section/13/enacted/en/html

If this is a widespread problem for farmers I suggest you campaign through your representative groups to have the law altered to address it as it seems totally inadequate to protect your property from this carry on.

Green farmer

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

There are local and European elections coming up this year and probably an election next year so it might be a good idea to point out the our local representatives how unrepresented we feel on issues like this when they call.

It’s the only way change will happen. Make sure they hear it on every doorstop.

solerina

OP you are not the only one who cannot get the Gardai to do anything, my uncle has had huge issues with people removing his sheep from a commonage he uses. They could have the sheep gone for a week or more, if you ask them to return them they say they will when we are putting our own back. Gardai don’t class this as theft and basically you just have to wait for the animals to be returned or risk confronting the neighbour ( my uncle is elderly so won’t do this). The laws and the Gardai in this country are useless to help rural farmers !!

Ard_MC

solerina wrote: »

OP you are not the only one who cannot get the Gardai to do anything, my uncle has had huge issues with people removing his sheep from a commonage he uses. They could have the sheep gone for a week or more, if you ask them to return them they say they will when we are putting our own back. Gardai don’t class this as theft and basically you just have to wait for the animals to be returned or risk confronting the neighbour ( my uncle is elderly so won’t do this). The laws and the Gardai in this country are useless to help rural farmers !!

Is this just not part and parcel of commonage farming? Are the sheep not on better land for a week or 2 while down of the commonage? U try your best to seprate out as many as you can but some always end up in for a few days while clippin etc? Rather see them all gathered instead of been scattered and seperated all over the place.

CloughCasey1

Green farmer wrote: »

It’s the only way change will happen. Make sure they hear it on every doorstop.

Im afraid the only way there will be changes is when there is a life lost. Same with everything.
Bad corner on a road. Campaigns, petitions, meetings, marches, shouting, bitching, moaning and crying to get it relined. Yet some poor unfortunate soul gets killed and within a year job done. Grenville tower disaster and massive fire safety laws. Same for that awful tragedy in Poland at weekend. There will be another P Nally before anything is done.

kevthegaff

There's a crack on my screen and I read "illegal cousins on private land" makes sense too..

High bike

Cattlepen wrote: »

I said it before to all the “want to be John Wayne’s” on this site, forget about the gun!! That is just stupid s**ttalk. Best case scenario with the gun is you will be arrested and charged for something or other and worst case is that they will take it off you and beat you unconscious with it. So grow up and forget about being a big man with a gun. Any way if yer tough enough to challenge them would an ash plant not do you?
And also, I learned this the hard way so I know what i’m Talking about

try reading the comment I made again and try to understand it this time,now I’m going to hide under the bed Incase the bad men come back

Cattlepen

High bike wrote: »

try reading the comment I made again and try to understand it this time,now I’m going to hide under the bed Incase the bad men come back

I read it again. It’s ambiguous.But mention the trespassers and yer gun in the same breath to any Gardai and see how long you keep your licensed firearm.
And I don’t hide under the bed but I also don’t take them on anymore. Their younger and tougher than they ever were and have no fear of firearms as they don’t fight fair. I’m older and on my own with no backup. Why would I want to get the daylights bet out of me trying a act like a tough guy. Sure the law doesn’t even see the b**tards as trespassers?

gozunda

And it continues ...

Not pretty ....

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/video-clonmel-dogs-mauling-sheep-being-hushed-on-by-individuals/

Buford T. Justice XIX

gozunda wrote: »

And it continues ...

Not pretty ....

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/video-clonmel-dogs-mauling-sheep-being-hushed-on-by-individuals/

I saw that alright. What kind of sick mentality...?

zapitastas

gozunda wrote: »

And it continues ...

Not pretty ....

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/video-clonmel-dogs-mauling-sheep-being-hushed-on-by-individuals/

That is genuinely shocking that people would cheer that on. Psychopaths.

Would signs up saying lands poisoned make them think twice about letting their dogs roam onto the land

solerina

Ard_MC wrote: »

Is this just not part and parcel of commonage farming? Are the sheep not on better land for a week or 2 while down of the commonage? U try your best to seprate out as many as you can but some always end up in for a few days while clippin etc? Rather see them all gathered instead of been scattered and seperated all over the place.

Apparently it never was with older generations, the new generation make no effort to separate out my uncles sheep, they generally come back hungry and dehydrated after having spent a lot of time in concrete pens. This county is disgraceful when you try to consider animal welfare.

homerhop

zapitastas wrote: »

That is genuinely shocking that people would cheer that on. Psychopaths.

Would signs up saying lands poisoned make them think twice about letting their dogs roam onto the land

You would get the I can’t read boss reply.
Also the laying of poison is now illegal and even though it’s just a sign you put up you could be opening a whole new can of worms for yourself.

Panch18

zapitastas wrote: »

That is genuinely shocking that people would cheer that on. Psychopaths.

Would signs up saying lands poisoned make them think twice about letting their dogs roam onto the land

These are the scumbags that we are having to deal with, 3 times since Christmas

Unfortunately it takes a lot more than a poisoned land sign to stop them, they don’t give a **** about anything or anyone

Something dramatic needs to be done and done quickly, but duck all will be done

Birdnuts

Panch18 wrote: »

These are the scumbags that we are having to deal with, 3 times since Christmas

Unfortunately it takes a lot more than a poisoned land sign to stop them, they don’t give a **** about anything or anyone

Something dramatic needs to be done and done quickly, but duck all will be done

Feel you pain - between that and rampant illegal dumping(had to deal with that myself last week right next to our main gates) its clear that folks especcially in quiet rural areas are very vulnerable. I think the only way to deal with this is to get a good trail came so that faces and car regs can be recorded. This info can then be shared with neighbours and the wider community(posted in local shops etc.) so that these vermin can be ran out of the place before they can do damage. Once they know folks have their number that should soften their cough and make them move on

Panch18

Birdnuts wrote: »

Feel you pain - between that and rampant illegal dumping(had to deal with that myself last week right next to our main gates) its clear that folks especcially in quiet rural areas are very vulnerable. I think the only way to deal with this is to get a good trail came so that faces and car regs can be recorded. This info can then be shared with neighbours and the wider community(posted in local shops etc.) so that these vermin can be ran out of the place before they can do damage. Once they know folks have their number that should soften their cough and make them move on

Oh the ****ing dumping

This country is being over run by scumbags - both the caravan and non caravan type, they’re taking over the country in front of our eyes

And then having to tolerate **** in the papers and on RTÉ supporting them, it’s a bloody disgrace. I nearly smashed the tv when looking at that “traveller” program on RTÉ there at Christmas. Never in my life have I seen such biased and blatant propaganda as that rubbish. It was an absolute disgrace

Birdnuts

Panch18 wrote: »

Oh the ****ing dumping

This country is being over run by scumbags - both the caravan and non caravan type, they’re taking over the country in front of our eyes

And then having to tolerate **** in the papers and on RTÉ supporting them, it’s a bloody disgrace. I nearly smashed the tv when looking at that “traveller” program on RTÉ there at Christmas. Never in my life have I seen such biased and blatant propaganda as that rubbish. It was an absolute disgrace

These issues are invisible to D4 types - since most of the media exist in that bubble, they have no idea what folks are dealing with down the country:(

JJayoo

This sh1t makes me feel very uneasy. Maybe setting up a local gun club would send out a message that there are locals organised, who are in contact and are armed. The club itself would be just a token 'group' maybe have a target competition once a year amongst the locals.

Maybe these cnuts would stay off land if they think 10 lads with shotguns would show up.

Nekarsulm

JJayoo wrote: »

This sh1t makes me feel very uneasy. Maybe setting up a local gun club would send out a message that there are locals organised, who are in contact and are armed. The club itself would be just a token 'group' maybe have a target competition once a year amongst the locals.

Maybe these cnuts would stay off land if they think 10 lads with shotguns would show up.

What do you do then?
Unless you shoot them all and put them down deep, they will go running to the Gardai and you will lose your guns permanently, probably stand trial and perhaps be sued by the guys you confronted, added to which your family will be under threat while you are on remand or in jail.

Everyone needs to pigeon-hole every politician they can get in touch with and stress that there won't be a single vote from their house or family if this law isn't changed.

If the Gardai can't act with the way the law is, it must be changed and the Gardai must then enforce that law.
We cede responsibility of our own safety to the Gardai, to the point that any defensive action we take leaves us liable to prosecution, so it's their duty to act.
Failure to do so should/must leave then answerable to a professional enquiry.

longgonesilver

Unusual twist in an on-going trial after dogs were shot following a sheep worrying incident.

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/judge-give-shot-dogs-back-for-christian-burial-896214.html?__twitter_impression=true

Buford T. Justice XIX

longgonesilver wrote: »

Unusually twist in an on-going trial after dogs were shot following a sheep worrying incident.

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/judge-give-shot-dogs-back-for-christian-burial-896214.html?__twitter_impression=true

From that article

The court heard that the Director of Public Prosecutions is considering a file in relation to the landowner

whisky_galore

longgonesilver wrote: »

Unusually twist in an on-going trial after dogs were shot following a sheep worrying incident.

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/judge-give-shot-dogs-back-for-christian-burial-896214.html?__twitter_impression=true

I don't know why a judge is even entertaining this bullsh1t. They are dogs that were uninvited and should not have been there, end of story.

That's the legal profession for you.

Nekarsulm

"The owners had the dogs registered, and needed to get a certificate to prove they had been properly disposed off "


A certificate from whom?
To be shown to what State body/Authority?

Is this not a clear example of a Solicitor blatantly lying to the Court?

whisky_galore

Nekarsulm wrote: »

"The owners had the dogs registered, and needed to get a certificate to prove they had been properly disposed off "


A certificate from whom?
To be shown to what State body/Authority?

Is this not a clear example of a Solicitor blatantly lying to the Court?

They're ****ing dead dogs, not cars. I have no idea where that's coming from.

Mad_maxx

Panch18 wrote: »

Oh the ****ing dumping

This country is being over run by scumbags - both the caravan and non caravan type, they’re taking over the country in front of our eyes

And then having to tolerate **** in the papers and on RTÉ supporting them, it’s a bloody disgrace. I nearly smashed the tv when looking at that “traveller” program on RTÉ there at Christmas. Never in my life have I seen such biased and blatant propaganda as that rubbish. It was an absolute disgrace

Like almost all left wingers, rte will back anyone who p1sses off the average tax payer who works and gets on with it

Dreadful programme, the one which finally made me promise never to pay the licence fee again

Mad_maxx

Nekarsulm wrote: »

What do you do then?
Unless you shoot them all and put them down deep, they will go running to the Gardai and you will lose your guns permanently, probably stand trial and perhaps be sued by the guys you confronted, added to which your family will be under threat while you are on remand or in jail.

Everyone needs to pigeon-hole every politician they can get in touch with and stress that there won't be a single vote from their house or family if this law isn't changed.

If the Gardai can't act with the way the law is, it must be changed and the Gardai must then enforce that law.
We cede responsibility of our own safety to the Gardai, to the point that any defensive action we take leaves us liable to prosecution, so it's their duty to act.
Failure to do so should/must leave then answerable to a professional enquiry.

When I see how useless - powerless guards - the state is to deal with these issues, makes me realise the Americans have a solid point when it comes to the right to bear arms being sacred, its about self reliance and not being dependent on the state

JJayoo

Nekarsulm wrote: »

What do you do then?
Unless you shoot them all and put them down deep, they will go running to the Gardai and you will lose your guns permanently, probably stand trial and perhaps be sued by the guys you confronted, added to which your family will be under threat while you are on remand or in jail.

Everyone needs to pigeon-hole every politician they can get in touch with and stress that there won't be a single vote from their house or family if this law isn't changed.

If the Gardai can't act with the way the law is, it must be changed and the Gardai must then enforce that law.
We cede responsibility of our own safety to the Gardai, to the point that any defensive action we take leaves us liable to prosecution, so it's their duty to act.
Failure to do so should/must leave then answerable to a professional enquiry.

My post is in relation to prevention.

Unfortunately scum will always seek out the easy target, by making yourself less off a target you can help avoid a lot of the cnuts

FishOnABike

Nekarsulm wrote: »

"The owners had the dogs registered, and needed to get a certificate to prove they had been properly disposed off "


A certificate from whom?
To be shown to what State body/Authority?

Is this not a clear example of a Solicitor blatantly lying to the Court?

I'm sure it wouldn't be the first or last time, or relying on the 'my client informs me' line to spout some blatant nonsense which they carefully avoid any effort to independently verify.

Cattlepen

Mad_maxx wrote: »

When I see how useless - powerless guards - the state is to deal with these issues, makes me realise the Americans have a solid point when it comes to the right to bear arms being sacred, its about self reliance and not being dependent on the state

I agree but we don’t have that in our constitution and never will. Firearms regs are only going to get tighter and if some of the loose talking gun toting lugs on here go on the way their talking they
Will give the powers that be justification. All big talkers till the DPP gets involved after a gun incident,then it’s change of underpants time.
I see another eejit in the paper this morning with a gun across his chest saying what he’l do with it.
Don’t see the need to be mouthing about it

Genghis Cant

Cattlepen wrote: »

I see another eejit in the paper this morning with a gun across his chest saying what he’l do with it.
Don’t see the need to be mouthing about it

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/ill-shoot-any-dogs-that-come-onto-my-land-even-those-on-leads-says-farmer-37689428.html


I saw that article alright. He's in a whole world of trouble when he shoots a dog on a lead like he's says he's gonna do.

Nekarsulm

Genghis Cant wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/ill-shoot-any-dogs-that-come-onto-my-land-even-those-on-leads-says-farmer-37689428.html


I saw that article alright. He's in a whole world of trouble when he shoots a dog on a lead like he's says he's gonna do.

I'd say he's on a knife edge of losing his gun licence, even without shooting any dog.
Two counts of Breach of the peace, and two counts of assault, he's lucky to have a licence, without posing for photos and drawing attention.

whisky_galore

Mad_maxx wrote: »

When I see how useless - powerless guards - the state is to deal with these issues, makes me realise the Americans have a solid point when it comes to the right to bear arms being sacred, its about self reliance and not being dependent on the state

To be fair, I'd rather our gun laws over theirs. Hardly a month goes by without a fruit cake and his gun(s) hitting the headlines.
Here I wouldn't be surprised if another Padraig Nally incident happens.

Melodeon

Yer man was on with Ciara Kelly on Newstalk a few minutes ago.
I didn't get to listen to it properly, but he seemed to come across as 'fairly' reasonable when quizzed on the subject.
I await the response from the text line...

Edit:
He has history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_%22The_Bull%22_McSharry

Mad_maxx

whisky_galore wrote: »

To be fair, I'd rather our gun laws over theirs. Hardly a month goes by without a fruit cake and his gun(s) hitting the headlines.
Here I wouldn't be surprised if another Padraig Nally incident happens.

When the right to bear arms was put in the American constitution, there were no high powered automatic weapons, problem today is anyone can get hold of a high powered weapon but the right to bear arms is a good one

Nekarsulm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

When the right to bear arms was put in the American constitution, there were no high powered automatic weapons,

True, but what they had were "state of the art" at the time.