Electric dog fences

Jillie30

Hi,
can anyone help me, I have been using the electric dog fences for a couple of years, but for the past month or 2 one of my dogs keeps running through it, it is working and shocking (accidentally tested on a human )the dog has short hair and I even changed the wire to a brand new wire encase that was the problem, my other dog will not pass it, I have switched their collars but to no avail, is he just putting up with the pain of it just to get passed?? Any advice greatly appreciated.

Dubl07

They don't work. Take it down and make a proper, securely fenced or walled area.

em_cat

Cruel & unnecessary, take it down & build a proper fence.

muddypaws

Yes he is putting up with the pain, which is why they don't work on dogs with high drive.

OP, please have a think about what is happening, the fences work by inflicting pain, consider whether that's a humane way to treat a dog. There can also be huge problems with dogs associating people and/or other dogs with the pain - someone walks past, the dog goes to investigate and gets a shock. To their mind, the person caused the pain as they were there when the dog got hurt. This can and does lead to human or dog aggression.

Macdarack

Dubl07 wrote: »

They don't work. Take it down and make a proper, securely fenced or walled area.

They do work, and they can save lives, the dogs life or a human life. E. G dog runs out on to road and causes major car accident. My dog only needed about 5 zaps on one day and he has never gone onto the road in front of my workshop. I had a remote shock collar and it was great.
You're protecting the dog and other people using these collars.

Macdarack

muddypaws wrote: »

Yes he is putting up with the pain, which is why they don't work on dogs with high drive.

OP, please have a think about what is happening, the fences work by inflicting pain, consider whether that's a humane way to treat a dog. There can also be huge problems with dogs associating people and/or other dogs with the pain - someone walks past, the dog goes to investigate and gets a shock. To their mind, the person caused the pain as they were there when the dog got hurt. This can and does lead to human or dog aggression.

Nonsense, what about the cat, bird, hedge hog etc the dog goes to investigate.

Bells21

Surely isn't nonsense, I witnessed a neighbour put their hand in their dog, which was already a nervous dog, as it got shocked. She would've been bitten only for she was standing to the rear of the dog and he couldn't reach with his mouth.
OP, think about it, if your dog is willing to put up with the pain, then the 'reward' of being free is far greater for the dog. That means that those collars are not going to be effective for your dog anymore.
Build a wall or a proper fence, it is much kinder and safer.

koppy

Have you tried re-training the dogs using the red flags or what ever training equipment came with the fence. Should re-train twice a year

Also maybe trim the dogs hair around where the collar sits.

kylith

For the dog the pain is worth it to get to the reward. The shock is no longer working. Build a fence; if it's properly made its effectiveness will never wear off.

Nody

Macdarack wrote: »

They do work, and they can save lives, the dogs life or a human life. E. G dog runs out on to road and causes major car accident. My dog only needed about 5 zaps on one day and he has never gone onto the road in front of my workshop. I had a remote shock collar and it was great.
You're protecting the dog and other people using these collars.

As per OPs post you got direct proof it does not work. And while on the topic would you be slapping your child in the face every time they try to walk out the front door as a way to train your child that it should not do so? If not why do you think it's appropriate method to use on an animal?

Jillie30

Thank you all for the comments, I have a wall and fence surrounding my property in the country side but he runs to the front wall trying to get over it, he hasn't managed to do so yet, the wall is at the roadside and is scaring a lot of passers by.

em_cat

Jillie30 wrote: »

Thank you all for the comments, I have a wall and fence surrounding my property in the country side but he runs to the front wall trying to get over it, he hasn't managed to do so yet, the wall is at the roadside and is scaring a lot of passers by.

He obviously has developed a reactive response to stimulus beyond your property and it is your job to train him so that a: he doesn’t feel threatened & b: so that he isn’t causing fear to others.

If you feel the need to use a shock method to train him then you probably shouldn’t have dogs.

DBB

em_cat wrote: »

If you feel the need to use a shock method to train him then you probably shouldn’t have dogs.

Debate is fine.
But showing respect for other posters who don't necessarily hold your views is a requirement for posting in this forum.
I'm on the verge of banning the phrase "... then you shouldn't have dogs" in this forum because it's hurtful, offensive, and trotted out all too easily. It most certainly contravenes the requirement to show mutual respect.
This is a deeply polarising subject, but that does NOT give anyone an excuse to be mean to one another.
Thanks,
DBB

tsue921i8wljb3

A few weeks ago I was walking my own dog past a property that I know has dogs. It was dark but I could hear one of the dogs barking. The animal obviously knew we were there as what I thought were highly excited yelps emerged as we passed.

A few days later on a subsequent walk I found the dog on the road complete with shock collar on and realised she was being shocked as she tried to get to us the previous evening. The yelps were not of excitement but pain. A bizarre way to treat a sentient creature. The collars have rightly been banned in several EU countries as far as I know.

koppy

Training and retraining are what's needed when using these collars. People put the wire down , put the collar on and let the dog loose. It takes at least 2 weeks to train a dog and then at least yearly a week of retraining. Dog properly trained should not get any zaps and should not run through. Any dog that runs through is not trained properly or was in need of retraining.
We've used it for years and not once has any of the dogs ran through even after People,other dogs or animals. The stories of dogs getting through and getting zapped never mention training or retraining.

So in my opinion they do work.

In terms of cruelty that's up to you to make your mind up on but seen as it's already there it looks like the poster has already decided on that one.

Sleeper12

I'm nearly positive that I heard Pete The Vet state on the Pat Kenny show that these are illegal in Ireland. He definitely said that they are cruel and shouldn't be used.

Either way if you are an animal lover you should remove it & come up with different plan that doesn't involve inflicting pain

koppy

Don't think they are illegal. Could be wrong. We got 2 new batteries for ours during the summer. Maybe since the summer but you can still buy them off the shelf.

tsue921i8wljb3

They are still legal here but

The use of shock collars is banned in Scotland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, and Germany,[31] and in some territories of Australia, including New South Wales and Southern Australia[32]

In March 2010, the Welsh Assembly voted to ban the use of shock collars in Wales. [33] The ban was unsuccessfully challenged by Petsafe, a manufacturer of these devices, and the Electronic Collar Manufacturers' Association, who claimed that it breached Article 1 of the First Protocol of the European Convention of Human Rights.[34]

In August 2018, it was announced that shock collars for cats and dogs would be banned in England. The Environment secretary Michael Gove said that shock collars caused unacceptable "harm and suffering". Animal charities, including the Kennel Club, the RSPCC and the Dogs Trust, welcomed the move.

Sleeper12

koppy wrote: »

Don't think they are illegal. Could be wrong. We got 2 new batteries for ours during the summer. Maybe since the summer but you can still buy them off the shelf.

I Goolged it & they are not banned in Ireland yet but are in other countries. There is no question that the aren't cruel though.



https://www.ispca.ie/news/detail/scotland_to_ban_the_use_of_electric_shock_collars_for_dogs


https://www.thesun.ie/news/2208815/cruel-electric-dog-collars-that-shock-pooches-are-being-sold-to-irish-pet-owners-as-animal-rights-groups-share-anger/

Jillie30

Iv always had dogs, They have all been trained in the same way, I have had no problem for years with this system, they got the shock once and that was it, the have half an acre to run around. I would prefer to keep the system than him running onto a busy road, and getting killed or end up breaking a leg or something, he will jump the wall so I'm not sure what to do next

Jillie30

Thank you, he was properly trained to the fence and never had any problems before but maybe it's fresh training he needs, will try that.

koppy

Not in any way arguing with anyone one about the cruelty side of these. Not saying they are or are not cruel. Not interested in that arguemet as Its a different question than the op asked .

My reply was only on whether they work or not. Our family have them for as long as I can remember so ive only seen a properly set up one with properly trained and retrained dogs on it.I cant remember hearing any of the dogs yelp from a zap so i believe the do work with training. one of our dogs collar is missing the probes and the warning beeps is enough for him as hes never got out.

.I do think the lack of training and more importantly retraining effect how well the system works. Over 10 yrs with no issues but not all systems are like that and may be we've been or the dogs have been lucky.

Having said that Training or retraining doesn't change wether they are cruel or not and again thats not what the op asked. Surely Ireland will follow others with a ban and am a bit surprised that it hasn't happened yet.

koppy

Jillie30 wrote: »

Iv always had dogs, They have all been trained in the same way, I have had no problem for years with this system, they got the shock once and that was it, the have half an acre to run around. I would prefer to keep the system than him running onto a busy road, and getting killed or end up breaking a leg or something, he will jump the wall so I'm not sure what to do next

Sounds a similar setup to ours. My parents swear by them. We live on a busy fast road. Dogs wouldnt stand a chance. Plenty of room for the dogs to run around. Best of luck getting it sorted.

Jillie30

koppy wrote: »

Not in any way arguing with anyone one about the cruelty side of these. Not saying they are or are not cruel. Not interested in that arguemet as Its a different question than the op asked .

My reply was only on whether they work or not. Our family have them for as long as I can remember so ive only seen a properly set up one with properly trained and retrained dogs on it.I cant remember hearing any of the dogs yelp from a zap so i believe the do work with training. one of our dogs collar is missing the probes and the warning beeps is enough for him as hes never got out.

.I do think the lack of training and more importantly retraining effect how well the system works. Over 10 yrs with no issues but not all systems are like that and may be we've been or the dogs have been lucky.

Having said that Training or retraining doesn't change wether they are cruel or not and again thats not what the op asked. Surely Ireland will follow others with a ban and am a bit surprised that it hasn't happened yet.

For the last number of years they would hear the beep and that was it no cruelty, he seems to be passing it without pain as he is not yelping or anything and it's definitely working and his hair is short.

Sleeper12

koppy wrote:

Not in any way arguing with anyone one about the cruelty side of these. Not saying they are or are not cruel. Not interested in that arguemet as Its a different question than the op asked .

This is an easy to thing to decide. Would you put one on a 2 or 3 year old child or would you consider it cruel? It would stop a child from running onto the road the same as a dog.

I think it's a windup. New member. Joined today to ask a question that I found the answer to on my first Google search.

Jillie30

Sleeper12 wrote: »

This is an easy to thing to decide. Would you put one on a 2 or 3 year old child or would you consider it cruel? It would stop a child from running onto the road the same as a dog.

I think it's a windup. New member. Joined today to ask a question that I found the answer to on my first Google search.

I assure you it's not a wind up, I still am no better off knowing what to do..... yes I have got feedback from people which I appreciate, as for Google it has no experience of what is going in my query, I'd prefer to get information from actually real people that from a search bar.

Also i wouldnt be letting a 2/3 year old child run free outside, and they also wouldnt jump a high wall. But I do see your point.

em_cat

So then OP would you consider getting in someone who could teach you and your dog in a force free positive manner?

This may not be what you asked but you are asking real people and that is the advice that supports the current model of thinking in dog training and behaviour.

fathead82

Is the line of the electric fence running along the front wall or is it away from the wall?
Maybe if he has a physical barrier to go along with the electric fence,it might put him off running straight through it.
Iv never used an electric fence for my dogs but any dog iv ever seen using one is a lot happier than the dogs iv seen tied up or locked in dog pens all day.

dohc turbo2

Collars do work , just as electric fences do for cattle , the cattle know about them and keep back , animals are clever , a lot smarter than a lot give them credit for , there is no shock when the collar beeps so no pain and they get to know the boundary , but you will always have one be it a cow , sheep or dog who doesn’t . Hope you get sorted , come back and let us know if you find a solution , rather then getting rid of dog as hinted earlier ,

borderlinemeath

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

Collars do work , just as electric fences do for cattle , the cattle know about them and keep back , animals are clever , a lot smarter than a lot give them credit for , there is no shock when the collar beeps so no pain and they get to know the boundary , but you will always have one be it a cow , sheep or dog who doesn’t . Hope you get sorted , come back and let us know if you find a solution , rather then getting rid of dog as hinted earlier ,

So that's grand, sure just the odd few dogs or livestock getting killed makes it ok to use? Besides, there is a massive difference between livestock and a companion animal who has been bred to be with their human family. A dog left in a garden to it's own devices is going to get bored and lonely and act out, be that trying to escape to find their family or other amusement.



OP, why don't you just make your wall higher? Make sure they're contained safely? You're dog clearly is taking the pain to get to the other side and what you need to remember is that there is no incentive to come back through the fence and take the pain, so will remain in danger of escaping, getting killed or injured or doing damage to the car that hits it or livestock it may chase.

dohc turbo2

Did u miss the point they get used to it and cause no pain and are safe to all , bar some .

borderlinemeath

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

Did u miss the point they get used to it and cause no pain and are safe to all , bar some .

And once again, inflicting pain, and the fact that is ineffective on "some" is ok?



Like another poster said, there's a reason they've been banned in plenty of other countries.

em_cat

borderlinemeath wrote: »

And once again, inflicting pain, and the fact that is ineffective on "some" is ok?



Like another poster said, there's a reason they've been banned in plenty of other countries.

I actually find this thread to be quite distressing and have a really difficult time understanding how in today’s world people still think it’s acceptable to use aversive punitive measures to control dogs.

Graces7

OP; erect a higher fence and lose the electric fence etc, please. same for others.

dohc turbo2

Graces7 wrote: »

OP; erect a higher fence and lose the electric fence etc, please. same for others.

To fence off a site that size, respectively that’s nice to look at since it’s obviously her home would cost thousands, it’s easy to tell others what to do .

scarepanda

We have it done in a rented house (rural setting). Back garden is completely enclosed, two gates at the sides of the house leading to the front that are locked and bolted top and bottom at all times. Fence erected on top of Garden wall to an approx height of 6ft. We've two medium sized dogs that we know are safe and secure, nothing can get in or out (except our cat) and the two are happy out in it.

We're far from flush with cash, but the cost was just a part of dog ownership for us. Neither of us would have it any other way.

borderlinemeath

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

To fence off a site that size, respectively that’s nice to look at since it’s obviously her home would cost thousands, it’s easy to tell others what to do .

Yet that's what every rescue centre will tell a prospective owner. No decent rescue rehomes a dog without a homecheck to ensure that the person adopting the dog has a secure fence or wall to ensure the safety of the dog.



BTW, I have an acre of land and have it securely fenced off. It nice to look at from the front and grand to look at out into the back fields. It's just what you do to ensure the safety of your pets. Even if I believed the electric collars/fences worked on "some" dogs, I wouldn't dare use them, the farmer across the road keeps sheep directly across from my house and if one of my dogs got out it would be a disaster all round. I just wouldn't take the risk or hurt my dogs because I was too mean to put up a secure barrier to keep them safe.

dohc turbo2

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Yet that's what every rescue centre will tell a prospective owner. No decent rescue rehomes a dog without a homecheck to ensure that the person adopting the dog has a secure fence or wall to ensure the safety of the dog.



BTW, I have an acre of land and have it securely fenced off. It nice to look at from the front and grand to look at out into the back fields. It's just what you do to ensure the safety of your pets. Even if I believed the electric collars/fences worked on "some" dogs, I wouldn't dare use them, the farmer across the road keeps sheep directly across from my house and if one of my dogs got out it would be a disaster all round. I just wouldn't take the risk or hurt my dogs because I was too mean to put up a secure barrier to keep them safe.

Excellent , post up a pic to give the op an example

dohc turbo2

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Yet that's what every rescue centre will tell a prospective owner. No decent rescue rehomes a dog without a homecheck to ensure that the person adopting the dog has a secure fence or wall to ensure the safety of the dog.



BTW, I have an acre of land and have it securely fenced off. It nice to look at from the front and grand to look at out into the back fields. It's just what you do to ensure the safety of your pets. Even if I believed the electric collars/fences worked on "some" dogs, I wouldn't dare use them, the farmer across the road keeps sheep directly across from my house and if one of my dogs got out it would be a disaster all round. I just wouldn't take the risk or hurt my dogs because I was too mean to put up a secure barrier to keep them safe.

O and being too mean as u say is gas coming from you when you didn’t want to pay half’s for a border fence in the rental property

DBB

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

O and being too mean as u say is gas coming from you when you didn’t want to pay half’s for a border fence in the rental property

Give it a flippin rest, will you?
I am sick to the back teeth of having to remind the humans posting here that there is a requirement in this forum to address other humans in a civilised way. The quoted post falls far short of this requirement.
Thanks,
DBB

muddypaws

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

Excellent , post up a pic to give the op an example

Always Tired

When I worked at an animal shelter we had dogs found running with those collars on all the time. They look fairly medieval imo.

muddypaws

Always Tired wrote: »

When I worked at an animal shelter we had dogs found running with those collars on all the time. They look fairly medieval imo.

Yeah it's amazing how many dogs end up in pounds wearing them - because apparently they work

Richard tea

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Yet that's what every rescue centre will tell a prospective owner. No decent rescue rehomes a dog without a homecheck to ensure that the person adopting the dog has a secure fence or wall to ensure the safety of the dog.



BTW, I have an acre of land and have it securely fenced off. It nice to look at from the front and grand to look at out into the back fields. It's just what you do to ensure the safety of your pets. Even if I believed the electric collars/fences worked on "some" dogs, I wouldn't dare use them, the farmer across the road keeps sheep directly across from my house and if one of my dogs got out it would be a disaster all round. I just wouldn't take the risk or hurt my dogs because I was too mean to put up a secure barrier to keep them safe.

Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Where there is a will there is a way. Just takes one gate to be left open or fence damaged in the wind and those poor sheep are in for a painful death.

I have been watching this chaps videos for a while now. A balanced trainer who does great work with livestock and dogs. Jamie penrith. Take the lead dog training.

Give some of his videos a watch.

On a side note, making such statements as positive only or reward based only or discipline training only should be banned.

Op I have no experience with the electric fence but as mentioned above. Try and retrain the dog again as if it was day one.

muddypaws

Richard tea wrote: »

Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Where there is a will there is a way. Just takes one gate to be left open or fence damaged in the wind and those poor sheep are in for a painful death.

I have been watching this chaps videos for a while now. A balanced trainer who does great work with livestock and dogs. Jamie penrith. Take the lead dog training.

Give some of his videos a watch.

On a side note, making such statements as positive only or reward based only or discipline training only should be banned.

So nobody should own dogs in the countryside?

Richard tea

muddypaws wrote: »

So nobody should own dogs in the countryside?

Absolutely they should. Why not

uck51js9zml2yt

muddypaws wrote: »

Where did you get the fence and how much did it cost ?

muddypaws

Jayce Fierce Blank wrote: »

Where did you get the fence and how much did it cost ?

From a local fencing company, it's the stuff that is usually put up around sports pitches. It was put up 12 years ago, I've forgotten how much it cost

muddypaws

Richard tea wrote: »

Absolutely they should. Why not

Because in your previous post you said that dogs that were contained were a disaster waiting to happen

Richard tea

muddypaws wrote: »

Because in your previous post you said that dogs that were contained were a disaster waiting to happen

Original post i quoted "the farmer across the road keeps sheep directly across from my house and if one of my dogs got out it would be a disaster all round"

This is what my post related to.

Jillie30

muddypaws wrote: »

Thanks, Looks very secure, and perfect for a back of a house, but i couldn't put that at the boundry wall on the roadside, would you have a picture of the gates that go with that fence encase I do decide to keep them at the back of my house.