Who wants to work until they are 70? or 107??

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/1226/1019111-retirement/

Legislation that will allow public servants to stay at work up to the age of 70 if they so choose has been signed into law by President Michael D Higgins.

Previously, public servants had to retire by 65 at the latest, despite the fact that the age for qualifying for the State pension is 66.

This left some workers with a gap in retirement income. In addition, some employees wanted to continue in their posts beyond 65.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/state-pension-age-increases-to-66-1.1641529?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2Fstate-pension-age-increases-to-66-1.1641529

State Pension (Contributory) is payable at age 66 (age 67 from 2021, age 68 from 2028) to people who have satisfied certain PRSI conditions; and
State Pension (Non-Contributory) is payable at age 66 (age 67 from 2021, age 68 from 2028) as a means-tested pension for those who do not qualify for the State Pension (Contributory) based on their PRSI contribution record.

With the pension age creeping up and some people wanting to work until 70 - who actually wants to work this long?

how about this guy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/07/nyregion/worlds-oldest-barber-anthony-mancinelli.html

The World’s Oldest Barber Is 107 and Still Cutting Hair Full Time

Mr. Mancinelli is 107 and still working full time, cutting hair five days a week from noon to 8 p.m. He has been working in barbershops since he was 11

I think as long as it's an option and not mandatory it's ok. You spend an awful lot of time at your job, maybe you'd feel a bit lost without it.
There is of course the gap in retirement income bit. I'd say by the time i retire the age will be 70 anyway. We are all living longer these days. although mortality improvements are decreasing in the uk

whisky_galore

Depends. Fair enough if you're sat on your arse in an office and happy doing that, I can't see blocklayers working up to 70 though.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

whisky_galore wrote: »

Depends. Fair enough if you're sat on your arse in an office and happy doing that, I can't see blocklayers working up to 70 though.

I have yet to see a public sector block layer

Twenty Grand

Suppose it depends how capable I am when I'm that age.

70 is another 40 years away for me. I could be half a cyborg in 40 years .

gandalf

Tbh I don't see the problem with it once we have a choice. My father was lost when he retired at 65 so he took up part time jobs. Unfortunately for him and us he died when he was 69 so he never got to enjoy his retirement. The sisters MIL has worked well into her eighties. She was physically fit and didn't look her age. I asked her once why and she said "what else would I do".

Having gone through unemployment a couple of times in the last 10 years it's actually amazing how much of your time is spent working and you do miss out on the social aspect especially when money is tight.

Little Less Conversation

Worked with someone who retired at 65, he died two years later. Some people won't even see 70. Let them enjoy their time instead of working.

bee06

If people choose to do it then let them work away. It must be a dramatic life change to go from working full time to being retired. My employer has introduced the option for work part time for the last year to ease people into it now. My father in law had to retire early for health reasons and hates it and the closer my father gets to retirement the less he wants to actually finish up.

Bob Harris

I'll work till I'm 106, but 107? Feck that.

sure if you want to let them work away until they are 70 or 100+
but what if enough people did it and then you find you have to compete with all these people getting 40+ year mortgages (like the 'good' ole days of yore) and you have even less of a chance to get a decent place if you are only getting a bog standard mortgage etc etc

tonycascarino

Unless one needs to work until 70 for financial reasons then I can think of no other reason why one would want to continue working until that age.

august12

Little Less Conversation wrote:

Worked with someone who retired at 65, he died two years later. Some people won't even see 70. Let them enjoy their time instead of working.

But the point is, retirement kills some people, they would much rather work if physically and mentally able to do so.

_Brian

People differ.

My friend retired a few months back aged 73, he had the option to retire at 65 but chose to work on.

He was happy, healthy and was delighted to contribute the extra earnings towards his kids mortgages which he paid off maybe 10 years early for them.

suicide_circus

how will this impact advancement for younger staff?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

tonycascarino wrote: »

Unless one needs to work until 70 for financial reasons then I can think of no other reason why one would want to continue working until that age.

Absolutely. If you can afford to retire early I'd highly recommend it. I loved my work and it was a huge part of my life but I retired at 54 (over 20 years ago). There's a whole wonderful other life after paid employment and much to enjoy. I know plenty who thought they'd have nothing to do after retiring and soon discovered they had lots to occupy them and now enjoy every minute of it.

Allinall

Little Less Conversation wrote: »

Worked with someone who retired at 65, he died two years later. Some people won't even see 70. Let them enjoy their time instead of working.

Maybe retirement contributed to his untimely demise.

Nothing to get up in the morning for. No motivation.

Twenty Grand

Little Less Conversation wrote: »

Worked with someone who retired at 65, he died two years later. Some people won't even see 70. Let them enjoy their time instead of working.

It can go either way.
Retirement kills some people.

My grandad does odd jobs at the 90. Only reason is to pass the time as he's little else to be doing.
All his friends are dead, kids are all near retirement themselves, plenty of grandkids but sure they're not always around.
Ive been on a dole for a few months before and I was bored out of my tree. He's been retired 20 years!!

Franz Von Peppercorn

Little Less Conversation wrote: »

Worked with someone who retired at 65, he died two years later. Some people won't even see 70. Let them enjoy their time instead of working.

There are people who die in their 50s. The retirement age is already 68 for most here btw.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Adam Rich Bomb wrote: »

Absolutely. If you can afford to retire early I'd highly recommend it. I loved my work and it was a huge part of my life but I retired at 54 (over 20 years ago). There's a whole wonderful other life after paid employment and much to enjoy. I know plenty who thought they'd have nothing to do after retiring and soon discovered they had lots to occupy them and now enjoy every minute of it.

You were clearly part of a lucky generation though. And in a lucky job.

I’ll still have a mortgage at 54. And not much in the pension pot. And no state pension until I’m 68. Or possibly later.

EdgeCase

The only problem I see is where this becomes not 'can work' but 'must work'.

My mom for example had passed away before 70 and wasn't in brilliant health in most of her 60s. She'd retired at 60 and really needed to.

I wonder if this is going to just see a large number of unlucky people on disability and not getting their pensions.

I mean what happens if you can't work in your 60s and end up on disability? Does your pension become worthless?

On average people are living longer but it's an average. Some people are getting into their 90s others aren't getting past 70 at all.

From what I can see things become highly unpredictable after about 60. In my own family I've had relatives living healthy lives into their 90s and others out with a bang at 65.

Twenty Grand

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

There are people who die in their 50s. The retirement age is already 68 for most here btw.

The retirement age was originally set above the average life expectancy.

jon1981

They need to stop basing it on life expectancy and instead use a health expectancy metric. Most will live till 70, doesn't mean they're capable of still working.

Anyone, good luck picking up a job in certain industries if you've been made redundant over 50...

BilboBagOfCans

Won't this block jobs for you get people? I know in our old primary school a lot of retired teachers used to come back and sub which felt very unfair on the newly qualified teachers who couldn't get work due to inexperience

dhaughton99

Sure if all you do is in the office is look at the secretary’s boobs and rob stationary, then knock your self out.

Franz Von Peppercorn

jon1981 wrote: »

They need to stop basing it on life expectancy and instead use a health expectancy metric. Most will live till 70, doesn't mean they're capable of still working.

Instead maybe, full pension on any chronic sickness past 60.

If you base it on health then you could have healthy 70 year olds having to work. Of course that’s the trend anyway.

EdgeCase

Gradual dismantling of the gains of the 20th century really being dressed up as freedom to work later.

Most people who want the flexibility to work into their 70s seem to be trying to pay down mortgages or help out offspring.

Meanwhile pension funds aren't sustainable or are nursing major losses from the crash.

It's all about the 2008 crash still haunting us.

jon1981

EdgeCase wrote: »

Gradual dismantling of the gains of the 20th century really being dressed up as freedom to work later.

Most people who want the flexibility to work into their 70s seem to be trying to pay down mortgages or help out offspring.

It's all about the 2008 crash still haunting us.

It's a death spiral...we're still going to have more crashes, expect it to get worse.

After each crash the winners who still have money and assets snap up more assets at cheaper rates...economy recovers, these people get richer, more wealth goes to a smaller group...cycle continues...

There will be no state pension when I'm 70. Don't assume it will be there. The likely scenario is our private pensions will be raided at some stage in the future to fund social payments for elderly with no pension.

bazz26

A lot of people from the Celtic Tiger days took out 100/110% mortgages over 35 years. In the current housing crisis you also have people who are older still trying to get onto the property market. You also have a high number of people who cannot afford a private pension. These people will not have the luxury to retire and live off the state pension @ 65. Also the Government borrowed from the state pension reserve to help bail out the banks so it's in their best interest that less people draw the state pension @ 66 or not at all.

august12

august12 wrote: »

Little Less Conversation wrote:

Worked with someone who retired at 65, he died two years later. Some people won't even see 70. Let them enjoy their time instead of working.

But the point is, retirement kills some people, they would much rather work if physically and mentally able to do so.

Sounds like they need hobbies and interests outside of work

Mrs OBumble

bazz26 wrote: »

..... These people will not have the luxury to retire and live off the state pension @ 65.

State pension already doesn't start unitl 67 ( soon to be 68) so there are lots of perfectly healthy, forcibly retired 65 and 66 year olds on the dole.

jon1981

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

State pension already doesn't start unitl 67 ( soon to be 68) so there are lots of perfectly healthy, forcibly retired 65 and 66 year olds on the dole.

There is also an ageist attitude among many employers that make it impossible for elderly to get back to work. As i said if you are made redundant in certain industries adter 50 you're likely ****ed.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I would like the option to work on to 70 or beyond. My dad was forced into early retirement and he was dead a year later. Plus I like money.

Jack0125

I was under the impression that public sector employees retire at pensions very close to final salary? Once they have the service.

Then these public sector guys will not be working for financial reasons until they are 70?

Jack0125

Jack0125 wrote: »

I was under the impression that public sector employees retire at pensions very close to final salary? Once they have the service.

Then these public sector guys will not be working for financial reasons until they are 70?

I think the revenue max is 2/3 'final salary'. I also imagine the 'final salary' is averaged over the last x years. There was talk of making it career average a while ago.
So i guess in theory it could go up a bit

Mongfinder General

I'll work until 70 or at least threaten my employer that I'll work until 70. A college grad with a couple of years experience could do my job for half of what I'm paid. My employer knows this and won't want a 60 year old obstinate employee around. I'd expect that this legislation will also prompt "redundancy" type deals too.

Franz Von Peppercorn

jon1981 wrote: »

It's a death spiral...we're still going to have more crashes, expect it to get worse.

After each crash the winners who still have money and assets snap up more assets at cheaper rates...economy recovers, these people get richer, more wealth goes to a smaller group...cycle continues...

There will be no state pension when I'm 70. Don't assume it will be there. The likely scenario is our private pensions will be raided at some stage in the future to fund social payments for elderly with no pension.

Can’t see the pension not being there. Millions would starve. The retirement age will get later and later though.

Franz Von Peppercorn

bluewolf wrote: »

I think the revenue max is 2/3 'final salary'. I also imagine the 'final salary' is averaged over the last x years. There was talk of making it career average a while ago.
So i guess in theory it could go up a bit

It’s 50% average now for newer entrants.

begbysback

Little Less Conversation wrote: »

Worked with someone who retired at 65, he died two years later. Some people won't even see 70. Let them enjoy their time instead of working.

Kinda reminds me of a line from Jim Carey, “I truly believe that when you’ve nothing to do here then your time is up”

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Can’t see the pension not being there. Millions would starve. The retirement age will get later and later though.

Agreed. It'd be total political suicide to try and abolish the pension. They'd stop funding schools first. Things would have to be properly mad max style grim to get to that.

The_Honeybadger

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Agreed. It'd be total political suicide to try and abolish the pension. They'd stop funding schools first. Things would have to be properly mad max style grim to get to that.

There would be riots in the streets if it was ever being seriously considered. The OAP is the cornerstone of the social contract in Ireland.

With an ageing population there will at some point be a crisis in public finances that will spark a collective realisation that people need to save or contribute more during their working lives and the whole system will need to be fundamentally restructured. We are a while away from that though.

Our democratic system does not lend itself to proper long term planning as it’s all about auction politics and the next election.

Cina

My mother was forced to retire right before this legislation came in and hates it. She loves her work and the people there and hates sitting at home having nothing to do.

If someone wants to keep working then why stop them?

twowheelsonly

Little Less Conversation wrote: »

Worked with someone who retired at 65, he died two years later. Some people won't even see 70. Let them enjoy their time instead of working.

For a lot of people their work is also their social outlet. You spend 25 /30 /35 years working at much the same job, enjoying the banter, slagging about the weekends football results, being part of a workplace 'family'. Then one day that's gone. That's a huge change for anyone.

Doesn't really matter that you have other interests outside - there's very few outside interests that you share 40+ hours a week with friends and colleagues. Work also gives structure to peoples lives, something that retirees can miss for a long time.

Jack0125 wrote: »

I was under the impression that public sector employees retire at pensions very close to final salary? Once they have the service.

Then these public sector guys will not be working for financial reasons until they are 70?

There are three or four variations of pensions for PS now depending on when you joined. Anyone that was in before 1995 is on the old 'Golden Goose' one, anyone since then not so much..


Due to the nature of my job I have to go at 60 but I'd happily go on until 65. Not sure about 70 but certainly right now I feel I'd have no problem going on another 5 years.

pawrick

I have zero interest in working until I'm 70 personally and would much prefer taking up more hobbies/spending time with friends and family when I can retire than come in to work every day just avoid dropping dead of boredom. I hope I would never allow my work to take over my life to such an extent.
I also think the working week should be shortened to help create more gainful employment and reduce presenteeism particularly in office jobs which seem to be affected by this mentality more. Society could gain a lot by having people with more free time to pursue activities.

Shazer

I’m 48 now and i’m Not expecting their to be any money left to run a state pension by the time I get to 70.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Shazer wrote: »

I’m 48 now and i’m Not expecting their to be any money left to run a state pension by the time I get to 70.

Society will literally have to break down first. Why would workers pay prsi for no pension? Other forms of social welfare, capital expenditure, roads etc would be curtailed first. Pensions might decline in real value and retirees have to be older but the OAP is central to the social contract.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I looked this up and the whole thing can be funded in 2050 with a reduction in the state pension of 35% and increasing the age of retirement to 70.

Is that possible. It probably would have to be. Other options are to increase tax on lower income (non) taxpayers - thank you Fianna Fáil. Or increasing the tax base. Corporation tax etc.

None easy.

Shazer

Hopefully Franz. Do you have any thoughts on the new mandatory contribution pension scheme planned for 2022.

The_Honeybadger

It can and will be funded, probably through a multitude of different actions and approaches. It is amazing what people will agree to in a crisis. Look at the ‘temporary’ USC.

Ursus Horribilis

It's going to make things interesting if some people start developing dementia or other conditions that'll lead to them not being able to do their jobs properly. Dementia sufferers are very skilled at hiding their symptoms in the early days

The_Honeybadger

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

It's going to make things interesting if some people start developing dementia or other conditions that'll lead to them not being able to do their jobs properly. Dementia sufferers are very skilled at hiding their symptoms in the early days

In those cases presumably they can apply for a disability payment and / or early retirement if they are unfit to work. People with genuine health problems should always be looked after by the system whatever else happens.

wakka12

Some people love working. My grandad who is 84 worked full time up until last year when he had to stop for physical health reasons, he seemed much happier and more self fulfilled when he was working