local shooters think they own the place

alangeorge

don't want to fall out with them but they ignore the signs i recently put up and saw one guy leaving our land with spades and two dogs so assume they/he were digging out foxes.

Rows Grower

If they are ignoring signs you put up and are shooting on your land then it's time to have a chat at least.

That's disgraceful behaviour, don't know how they are to blame for the guy with the spade and dogs though.

archer22

alangeorge wrote: »

don't want to fall out with them but they ignore the signs i recently put up and saw one guy leaving our land with spades and two dogs so assume they/he were digging out foxes.

Same problem here..found shot Foxes lying around my fields last week.
Those people completely ignored the signs stating "wildlife sanctuary keep out".

It's a constant fooking problem now :mad:

bfa1509

alangeorge wrote: »

don't want to fall out with them but they ignore the signs i recently put up and saw one guy leaving our land with spades and two dogs so assume they/he were digging out foxes.

I was expecting you to come back to find your signs full of holes like on my land. I would say definitely a chat is warranted.

Rows Grower

archer22 wrote: »

Same problem here..found shot Foxes lying around my fields last week.
Those people completely ignored the signs stating "wildlife sanctuary keep out".

It's a constant fooking problem now :mad:

Locals you think?

archer22

Rows Grower wrote: »

Locals you think?

I doubt it's locals in my case..I got a coilte forest to the back, I suspect it's Cowboys coming in though that as its wide open from numerous directions.

whisky_galore

Shooters are always like this, pulling down signs, going where ever they like with dogs without asking, hardly surprising.
Always wonder why they haven't anything better to do.

Genghis Cant

whisky_galore wrote: »

Shooters are always like this, pulling down signs, going where ever they like with dogs without asking, hardly surprising.

From my experience on this it's 10% renegade giving the 90% of genuine shooters a bad name.
Maybe it's different in different areas.

josephsoap

I wonder will legislation ever be brought in to ban any of that sort of carry on foxes/digging and shooting/hunting in general ?

ganmo

josephsoap wrote: »

I wonder will legislation ever be brought in to ban any of that sort of carry on foxes/digging and shooting/hunting in general ?

Trespass with a gun is illegal,try and get the guards out after saying gun though!

Buford T. Justice XIX

josephsoap wrote: »

I wonder will legislation ever be brought in to ban any of that sort of carry on foxes/digging and shooting/hunting in general ?

Charlie Flanagan is on record as saying there is no need for new laws to target those unwelcome walkers on private lands, that current legislation is sufficient to deal with this issue.


That despite a Garda spokesman saying that those unwanted walkers aren't breaking any laws unless they enter yards and housing and that nothing can be done unless new legislation is enacted.

Rows Grower

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Charlie Flanagan is on record as saying there is no need for new laws to target those unwelcome walkers on private lands, that current legislation is sufficient to deal with this issue.


That despite a Garda spokesman saying that those unwanted walkers aren't breaking any laws unless they enter yards and housing and that nothing can be done unless new legislation is enacted.

There's a big difference between walkers and local fellas with guns ignoring signs on private property and thinking they own the place.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Rows Grower wrote: »

There's a big difference between walkers and local fellas with guns ignoring signs on private property and thinking they own the place.

Either way they're trespassing on private property, as landowners would define it. And the Gardai cannot/will not do a thing to stop it as there is no law being broken.



Unless they can be found in possession of a dead hare or other protected species or enter farm buildings, there isn't a damn thing illegal about what they're doing:(

alangeorge

Rows Grower wrote: »

If they are ignoring signs you put up and are shooting on your land then it's time to have a chat at least.

That's disgraceful behaviour, don't know how they are to blame for the guy with the spade and dogs though.

there shooters and they were digging as fresh soil turned over and saw one guy with a spade climbing over a fence, next time i will take the quad down and have a word

alangeorge

archer22 wrote: »

Same problem here..found shot Foxes lying around my fields last week.
Those people completely ignored the signs stating "wildlife sanctuary keep out".

It's a constant fooking problem now :mad:

what did you do? you any idea who they are?
I know other local farmers dont mind killing foxes but I don't like it and don't like the idea of digging out the poor creatures.
Was not even asked

Base price

Rows Grower wrote: »

There's a big difference between walkers and local fellas with guns ignoring signs on private property and thinking they own the place.

No there is not - both are trespassing on private property.

IMO the fellas hunting with guns are more respectful than the "right to roam" gang.

Rows Grower

Base price wrote: »

No there is not - both are trespassing on private property.

IMO the fellas hunting with guns are more respectful than the "right to roam" gang.

Yes, there is.

There is a very big difference.

Iwouldinmesack

alangeorge wrote: »

don't want to fall out with them but they ignore the signs i recently put up and saw one guy leaving our land with spades and two dogs so assume they/he were digging out foxes.

Your land, tell them to get to fcuk. I wouldn't give two ****s about falling out with them , they are trespassing, end of.

Base price

Rows Grower wrote: »

Yes, there is.
There is a very big difference.

Explain.

Odelay

How do you get land turned into private property like a pharmaceutical site? What is the difference? I’m not talking about wandering into the buildings but I’m sure if I went for a wander around Pfizer or Intels grounds with me mates I’d end up in the world of trouble? What’s the difference between their grassy area and grazing area?

archer22

alangeorge wrote: »

what did you do? you any idea who they are?
I know other local farmers dont mind killing foxes but I don't like it and don't like the idea of digging out the poor creatures.
Was not even asked

No idea who they were...but they used a large centerfire rifle going by the wounds on the Foxes.
Foxes cause no problems to anybody around here so it was just killing for fun.

I also had the job of burying the bodies after the cnuts as the bones would have ended up in the hay bales next year if left there.

Difficult to know what to do about it...other than try to keep a closer watch on the place and hope to come on them.
Will probably set a trail camera there as well ...those gadgets can be extremely useful when dealing with unwanted guests.

EdgeCase

This notion of hunters roaming around farm land or any private lands without permission seems quite odd. It is a throwback to the days of the old Anglo-Irish aristocracy and lord of the manor types, albeit now much more broadened out.

Surely they must be open to civil liability by doing so?

Or, do the land owners end up being at risk of being sued if someone has an injury while hunting on their land?

archer22

EdgeCase wrote: »

This notion of hunters roaming around farm land or any private lands without permission seems quite odd. It is a throwback to the days of the old Anglo-Irish aristocracy and lord of the manor types, albeit now much more broadened out.

Surely they must be open to civil liability by doing so?

Or, do the land owners end up being at risk of being sued if someone has an injury while hunting on their land?

I presume they can..it's a good question

The pigeon man

I would try get the reg from their vehicles. That would be the easiest way to identify them without confrontation. Then give it to the Gardaí.

I understand how the landowner must feel violated by strangers entering their land. The vast majority of shooters obey the law but there are always the few that cause hassle for everyone.

Rows Grower

Iwouldinmesack wrote: »

Your land, tell them to get to fcuk. I wouldn't give two ****s about falling out with them , they are trespassing, end of.

I'd be the exact same.

alangeorge

archer22 wrote: »

No idea who they were...but they used a large centerfire rifle going by the wounds on the Foxes.
Foxes cause no problems to anybody around here so it was just killing for fun.

I also had the job of burying the bodies after the cnuts as the bones would have ended up in the hay bales next year if left there.

Difficult to know what to do about it...other than try to keep a closer watch on the place and hope to come on them.
Will probably set a trail camera there as well ...those gadgets can be extremely useful when dealing with unwanted guests.

shooting bad enough as probably shoot all that moves, but coming with spades to dig up your property without even asking and to kill wildlife is not good, wonder if I took a spade and starting digging on their property would they like it,

grassroot1

alangeorge wrote: »

don't want to fall out with them but they ignore the signs i recently put up and saw one guy leaving our land with spades and two dogs so assume they/he were digging out foxes.

Why are you blaming shooters for trouble caused by people digging out foxes?
If someone is on your land with a gun without your permission thats armed trespass and the Gardai take a very dim view of that.
The OP is very confusing

Who2

Ive no hassle with local gun clubs around me, i explained what i expected and have had no hassle. The lads that go digging are a different kettle of p1ss. The majority of them have a screw loose and dont really care what you tell them, but what they are at is illegal. digging pits down to half starved foxes and watching dogs ripping them apart, it takes a certain sort to be into it.

tanko

grassroot1 wrote: »

Why are you blaming shooters for trouble caused by people digging out foxes?
If someone is on your land with a gun without your permission thats armed trespass and the Gardai take a very dim view of that.
The OP is very confusing

What exactly do the Gardai do about armed trespass??

Pkiernan

Whinging and moaning on here will do nothing.

Call the Guards, or quit whining. Simple as that.

See Armed Trespass under Section 10 of this link.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/12/enacted/en/print#sec10

The pigeon man

Pkiernan wrote: »

Whinging and moaning on here will do nothing.

Call the Guards, or quit whining. Simple as that.

See Armed Trespass under Section 10 of this link.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/12/enacted/en/print#sec10

I don't think that section makes it an offense to trespass with a firearm for the purpose of hunting.

J.O. Farmer

Pkiernan wrote: »

Whinging and moaning on here will do nothing.

Call the Guards, or quit whining. Simple as that.

See Armed Trespass under Section 10 of this link.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/12/enacted/en/print#sec10

“premises” means any building, any part of a building and any land ancillary to a building;

I doubt if farmland even adjacent to the farmhouse counts as ancillary to the building.
The lawn yes adjoining field no.

Birdnuts

A good trail cam is probably the most usefull tool in this situation. We got illegal dumpers on our place via this tech and no reason it can't work for any type of unwelcome trespasser.

PS: As others have said the vast majority of shooters are decent law-abiding types and want to see an end to troublemakers in this area as much as anyone!!

grassroot1

tanko wrote: »

What exactly do the Gardai do about armed trespass??

Size firearms and refuse a renewal of licence

grassroot1

The pigeon man wrote: »

I don't think that section makes it an offense to trespass with a firearm for the purpose of hunting.

If you dont have permission it is irrelevant if you are hunting or not

gavindublin

Pkiernan wrote: »

Whinging and moaning on here will do nothing.

Call the Guards, or quit whining. Simple as that.

See Armed Trespass under Section 10 of this link.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/12/enacted/en/print#sec10[/quote

You can be deemed armed, while tresspassing. But in Ireland I don't believe we have a charge of armed trespassing, so that call won't work to speed things up. It then falls becomes an offensive weapon if you were to use the statue, if deemed so. But a legally held rifle won't be deemed offensive, its the trespass issue that needs to be highlighted continuously.

Ask your local trusted shooters to watch out. As one of the above, I spend as much time walking adjacent land for nervous owners as I do for vermin control.

If not, the guards are your option. I'd be happy to say the shovel carrying lads aren't shooters, boss.

alangeorge

Pkiernan wrote: »

Whinging and moaning on here will do nothing.

Call the Guards, or quit whining. Simple as that.

See Armed Trespass under Section 10 of this link.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/12/enacted/en/print#sec10

no ones whinging as you call it, we are having a discussion on it thats all and the Guards don't want to know about something like this

flatty

I'd be livid. I don't want anyone killing creatures on my few acres. There were gun club signs on it when I bought it. I tore them all down and put them in the bin. Pheasants are beautiful birds. I'll not have them or anything else blown to bits... Mod snip.... Let's just reign in the language. Thanks. GC

Buford T. Justice XIX

alangeorge wrote: »

no ones whinging as you call it, we are having a discussion on it thats all and the Guards don't want to know about something like this

As mentioned above, it's considered a civil matter.

And lack of available Gardai. Kerry has approx 300 Gardai. 3 shifts so roughly 100 available at any one time. Take out those sick, on holidays, days off, maternity leave and office duties, there's probably 80 Gardai available at any one time.

And criminal reports and accidents will be of a much higher priority than civil trespass. That's just the way it is.

Unless we press for change and an increase in both manpower and community Gardai, which we are entitled to, we'll be stuck with the same situation in the future.

liam7831

Mod snip Off topic, this isn't AH.

stantheman1979

A few yrs back I came across a hunt while driving through Kilkenny. They had the road blocked with horse boxes so watched as they surrounded a private bungalow by the road. I can only assume that the fox had gone in there to find cover. In the next few mins about 40 hounds and a few knob heads on horses entered the garden, dogs going mental knob heads blowing horns. They destroyed the garden and one knob head knocked down the top rail of the fence while trying to be billy big balls and trying to jump over it on horseback. It was disgusting and I told the local hunt when they asked me if they are seen on my property they will be found dead there!!

Rows Grower

Who2 wrote: »

Ive no hassle with local gun clubs around me, i explained what i expected and have had no hassle. The lads that go digging are a different kettle of p1ss. The majority of them have a screw loose and dont really care what you tell them, but what they are at is illegal. digging pits down to half starved foxes and watching dogs ripping them apart, it takes a certain sort to be into it.

Since when is digging foxes illegal in Ireland?

Markcheese

Rows Grower wrote: »

Since when is digging foxes illegal in Ireland?

When you don't own the ground, and don't have permission,

Markcheese

I know a lad that makes a point of sympathising with unwanted shooters about local vandals, and their habit of wrecking tires on jeeps... A very aggressive stragegy from a very in your face fella..

Rows Grower

Markcheese wrote: »

When you don't own the ground, and don't have permission,

Ah I'm well aware of that, but the other poster in amongst his ill informed rant seemed to imply the actual digging out of foxes was illegal here in Ireland.

Suckler

Rows Grower wrote: »

Ah I'm well aware of that, but the other poster in amongst his ill informed rant seemed to imply the actual digging out of foxes was illegal here in Ireland.

The Wildlife Acts do make provisions that wild animals can not be hunted by various means. The Wildlife Acts makes it unlawful to:

Enter on any land with a firearm or other hunting equipment for the purpose of hunting a fox without the permission of the owner or the occupier or some other person entitled to enjoy sporting rights over the land

Also;

ANIMAL HEALTH AND WELFARE ACT 2013
Issues of cruelty to animals are dealt with in the provisions of the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013:

Section 12 - Animal Cruelty

• Makes it an offence to - (a) do, or fail to do, anything or cause or permit anything to be done to an animal that causes unnecessary suffering to, or endangers the health and welfare of an animal, or (b) neglect, or be reckless, regarding the health and welfare of an animal

In this Act "Unnecessary Suffering" means, in relation an animal, pain, distress or suffering (whether physical or mental) that in its kind or degree, or in its object, or in the circumstances in which it occurs, is unreasonable or unnecessary

Digging a pit to see an animal, be it a badger or fox,eventually torn asunder takes a certain low moral type alright.

Rows Grower

Suckler wrote: »

The Wildlife Acts do make provisions that wild animals can not be hunted by various means. The Wildlife Acts makes it unlawful to:

Enter on any land with a firearm or other hunting equipment for the purpose of hunting a fox without the permission of the owner or the occupier or some other person entitled to enjoy sporting rights over the land

Also;

ANIMAL HEALTH AND WELFARE ACT 2013
Issues of cruelty to animals are dealt with in the provisions of the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013:

Section 12 - Animal Cruelty

• Makes it an offence to - (a) do, or fail to do, anything or cause or permit anything to be done to an animal that causes unnecessary suffering to, or endangers the health and welfare of an animal, or (b) neglect, or be reckless, regarding the health and welfare of an animal

In this Act "Unnecessary Suffering" means, in relation an animal, pain, distress or suffering (whether physical or mental) that in its kind or degree, or in its object, or in the circumstances in which it occurs, is unreasonable or unnecessary

Digging a pit to see an animal, be it a badger or fox,eventually torn asunder takes a certain low moral type alright.

You also (to my mind) seem to imply that the digging of foxes is illegal in Ireland.

Are you trying to make that point?

Suckler

Rows Grower wrote: »

You also (to my mind) seem to imply that the digging of foxes is illegal in Ireland.

Are you trying to make that point?

What comes after the digging?

patsy_mccabe

I'm no fan of hunting but the humble fox is a top predator. As such there is no way of keeping the numbers in check. We have a few foxes aroud here and in recent years, not a rabbit in sight. God knows how many birds they kill.

Rows Grower

Suckler wrote: »

What comes after the digging?

The backfill.

gozunda

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I'm no fan of hunting but the humble fox is a top predator. As such there is no way of keeping the numbers in check. We have a few foxes aroud here and in recent years, not a rabbit in sight. God knows how many birds they kill.

I've some wetland area that has always had a decent population of duck and other water birds. Last few years birds there decimated by large increase in local fox population. And before the deniers get in - the foxes seen predating same. I've no problem controlling such increases in predators. Imo it's not the legitimate guys who hunt who create the problems with trespass etc it's the guriers with fighting type dogs digging out arriving from other areas including a bunch with UK registrations ...