If you could change one law...

GolfVI

If there was a sudden law change in Ireland regarding firearms , what one law would you like to see changed/created?
Im aware theres so much that could be changed , but if you had to choose just one what would it be?

For me it would be reloading at home.

I do enjoy watching on youtube American shooters creating and testing ammo batches at home. Seems like a whole new aspect to the sport and something I would enjoy.

Nekarsulm

For me it would be a change to licencing the owner, not each individual firearm.
List them on the licence, by all means, but if I'm responsible enough to own 3, why not 13?
A bit like the UK system.

GolfVI

Nekarsulm wrote: »

For me it would be a change to licencing the owner, not each individual firearm.
List them on the licence, by all means, but if I'm responsible enough to own 3, why not 13?
A bit like the UK system.

In that case would it be a one license covers all? Or would you still need a separate one for pistols, rifles etc

A bit like the current Irish drivers license system, once you pass your car test you can drive any/how many cars you want..

However you will need another test for a truck/motorbike/bus..

Nekarsulm

The Irish driver licence comparison would be really apt, because you can have everything from a scooter to a truck and drag on the one licence ( if you've passed the relevant test) and all classes stay on subsequent licences without any further official interference.

TheEngineer1

I would love to be able to shoot centerfire pistols

Grizzly 45

Creating a law...A constitutional amendment that guarantees the right to keep and bear arms.

Changing a law... Reintroduction of CF handguns.

Grizzly 45

GolfVI wrote: »

In that case would it be a one license covers all? Or would you still need a separate one for pistols, rifles etc

A bit like the current Irish drivers license system, once you pass your car test you can drive any/how many cars you want..

However, you will need another test for a truck/motorbike/bus..

Slight difference in comparison of motorised vehicles, which can do more damage than any firearm. There are more variables in driving a car, truck, bike etc safely with hundreds of others surrounding you doing the same than there is in using a gun safely.Hence you have a graded license for motor vehicles.

However using a gun be it a BB or 50 cal, requires alot less operation procedures and fast judgement calls, than driving your car to the local shop and back.
So graded liscenses are not a good idea with firearms.

GolfVI

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Slight difference in comparison of motorised vehicles, which can do more damage than any firearm. There are more variables in driving a car, truck, bike etc safely with hundreds of others surrounding you doing the same than there is in using a gun safely.Hence you have a graded license for motor vehicles.

However using a gun be it a BB or 50 cal, requires alot less operation procedures and fast judgement calls, than driving your car to the local shop and back.
So graded liscenses are not a good idea with firearms.

In regards to the comparison i was refering to the concept that on a car licence its one single card with all other licences on the back.. not a seperate license for each vehicle

By making a gun license the same you apply for example a shotgun lisence and are granted it.. and therefore can purchase as many shotguns as one wishes..

However to get a rifle you must apply again for a rifle license.. then it will be stamped on the back of your current licence that you can purchase a rifle also

So one card for multiple classes of firearm

Just like its one card for multiple classes of vehicles

Kran

Currently the one I’d like changed is the one about a monitored alarm for more than four guns. I live fairly rural and have my guns behind a locked gate, locked doors, locked attic stairs and locked in a substantial gun safe, also have an alarm that texts me and cameras and a dog. I just can’t bring myself to pay extra for a monitored alarm that will contact the guards who will take longer than me to get there. I think that’s reasonably secure, definitely more so than the guards themselves who left a gun fall out the back of a car and drove off earlier this year.

gunny123

TheEngineer1 wrote: »

I would love to be able to shoot centerfire pistols

Had both rimfire and centrefire pistols. In shooting paper targets, you can have as much fun with a rimfire, and its much cheaper to feed.

Zxthinger

I'd make low power air rifles and air pistols available in any quantity under a single free licence. They'd still have to be registered and recorded and tracked but if you are a suitable person of temperate character then knock your self out.

That would create a mass of shooting opportunities for all.

However it would be hard to stop there.

Id make large crossbows unrestricted and licences as above. (I.e. Not pistol crossbow)

Pistols would be allow to have any amount of chambers.

Pistol ammunition would be extended to all rimfire ammo.

Remove the prohibitions on the use of silencers when shooting birds with supersonic centre fire chambered rifles.

Extend the deer licence to match the firearm licence.

Roll out reloading to the hunters and target shooters that want it (yes I said hunters)

Extend the deer hunting season and offer the extension to bow hunters.

Make it one licence fee per reciever and have as many calibres as required printed on that one licence.

Remove the nonsense of the NPWS's requirement of 100acres and substitute it with a suitable parcel of land..

Write into law the right of fox hunters to hunt at night.. and remain free from ridicule and harassment from other hunting groups.

Make it legal to hunt certain bird species with an air rifle such that it is not dependant on the wording in a derogation.

Removal all protection in law for magpies. Dont forget that they were introduced and are a pest species that is destroying our native birds.

Make it allowable to shoot vermin from a vehicle if on private ground.

Make electric fox callers legal.

Allow musket shooting and hunting.

There's a few to be getting on with.. and to be honest they're mild enough.

Zxthinger

Concession on the storage SI regarding the storage of non restricted historical firearms.

pm.

Kran wrote: »

Currently the one I’d like changed is the one about a monitored alarm for more than four guns. I live fairly rural and have my guns behind a locked gate, locked doors, locked attic stairs and locked in a substantial gun safe, also have an alarm that texts me and cameras and a dog. I just can’t bring myself to pay extra for a monitored alarm that will contact the guards who will take longer than me to get there. I think that’s reasonably secure, definitely more so than the guards themselves who left a gun fall out the back of a car and drove off earlier this year.

HI kran,

I think you might just be unlucky with your super. The monitored alarm is for 6 or more but that's at the discretion of your super.

On the monitored part the security company will still call you first then another nominated person then the guards it's a joke, like you I have the same set up. The alarm will text me as will the app and I can set/ reset the alarm remotely

Kran

pm. wrote: »

HI kran,

I think you might just be unlucky with your super. The monitored alarm is for 6 or more but that's at the discretion of your super.

On the monitored part the security company will still call you first then another nominated person then the guards it's a joke, like you I have the same set up. The alarm will text me as will the app and I can set/ reset the alarm remotely

Really it’s 6? Why did I think it was 4, I’m sure I read that somewhere. I’ve not personally talked with my Super but I’ve never had a problem get anything so far, silencers on license, night vision scope etc. Looks like the cabinet will be getting fuller next year if your right!

Grizzly 45

Remove the nonsense of the NPWS's requirement of 100acres and substitute it with a suitable parcel of land..

That one is of utter legal dubious and could be challenged as there is no mention of minimum acreage in any of the wildlife acts or even the firearms acts...Makey up law on NPWS side.

Asus1

1 man/woman equals 1 licence for say €50 a year.With that licence you can have as many firearms of the caliber or calibers that you have been licensed to hold by the guards.So if I got licensed for a 22lr with this new licence I could have 1 or 10 of the same caliber and if I applied for a shotgun that would go on the same licence and I would also be able to hold 1 or 10 if my application was successful for it.
Also if already holding a firearms licence you should be able to walk into a RFD and walk out with a air rifle after the RFD has put the serial number into a new air rifle database, thus the rifle is registered to you.

pm.

Kran wrote: »

Really it’s 6? Why did I think it was 4, I’m sure I read that somewhere. I’ve not personally talked with my Super but I’ve never had a problem get anything so far, silencers on license, night vision scope etc. Looks like the cabinet will be getting fuller next year if your right!

Yeah it's definitely 6, tbh I only found that out here about 3 months ago and with that in mind my 5th gun was bought and I picked her up last night

Had to change the gun safe to hold them, it will hold a couple more but once I hit 6 it's a requirement for me to have a monitored alarm. I know it's only around 20 a month for a company to monitor but I'm happy with my lot.......... For now

Gorgeousgeorge

Love it to be like the uk. Sgc and fac.

NASRPC

Kran wrote: »

Really it’s 6? Why did I think it was 4, I’m sure I read that somewhere. I’ve not personally talked with my Super but I’ve never had a problem get anything so far, silencers on license, night vision scope etc. Looks like the cabinet will be getting fuller next year if your right!

It depends if you have restricted or unrestricted licenses.

Your Super or Chief can also just make it a condition with only one license.

If you have three or more restricted, you require a monitored alarm.
E.g.
A 12 gauge side by side shotgun,
a buckmark rifle (. 22lr),
a buckmark pistol (. 22lr),
a marlin. 38 lever and
a glock 9mm pistol
require a monitored alarm
(because of the. 22 rifle as it was the third restricted license)

S.I. No. 307/2009 - Firearms (Secure Accommodation) Regulations 2009

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/307/made/en/print

tac foley

In mianland UK - road -

All air guns up 12ft lbs - NO licence, but you must be 18 or over the purchase - except Scotland, where the National Socialist Democratic Workers' Party AKA SNP has recently introduced airgun licensing in an effort to prevent its drugged-up parent citizens from shooting their babies in the head to see how it works.

All air guns over 12 ft lbs - Firearms Certificate with individual entries for each gun.

All shotguns, SxS, O&U, pump or semi-auto with up to THREE-shot capacity and a barrel over 24 inches - Shotgun Certificate. One certificate = as many shotguns as you can afford to buy and/or store. This includes ANY smoothbore up to and including 2 inch bore- as in a punt gun, for instance, or a reduced-calibre cannon. Any smoothbore with a barrel less than 24 inches needs a Firearms Certificate - that includes Western-style 'coach' guns and miniature cannon of any calibre. Want to shoot a Brown Bess musket of .75cal or .a Charleville of .69cal? Easy, it's a 'shotgun' - go right ahead. All muzzleloaders that are smoothbore, even when firing a full-calibre ball, are classed as shotguns.

All shotgun, pump or semi-auto with a more than three-shot capacity - Firearms Certificate with individual entries for each gun.

All rifled firearms [Called Section 1 firearms] in the following categories, all centrefire rifles/carbine of any kind of action except semi-auto, including modern replicas, need a Firearms Certificate. ONE firearms Certificate has ALL your Section 1 firearms entered on it. This also includes any black powder replica handgun up to and including .75 inch. All rimfire rifles and carbines, including smei-autos, are classed as Section 1 - no prohibition there like there is for the centre-fires.

Over here we do not have 'restricted' firearms by calibre - the notion that a .38cal firearm is somehow WAAAAY more deadly than a .30-06 because the bullet has a larger diameter has so far escaped the law-makers in the UK - so perhaps it's best not to mention it, right? Also there is no limit to the magazine capacity for ANY firearm. If somebody made a 100-round magazine for any firearm then you could buy a truckload of them and shoot forever. Oh wait, somebody already DOES make one. We DO have to have a sound moderator on the Firearms Certificate, though, but you can buy one for an air rifle without any paperwork - go figure.

We can shoot all night, too, although I bleeve you can, but not at foxes? Is that right? So what do you shoot at night?

Like you, we have limitations on ammunition holdings, but unlike you, we can reload any calibre that we possess, and in our front room or parlour - even, as I often do, in the back of my mini-van on the range. I'm very unlikely to reload 700 rounds at one time of 7.5x55 for my three Swiss rifles, but I could, if I felt like it. Reloading powder, including the Black Powder we use for our muzzleloaders, must be kept in a Home Office-approved safety container, but that's no big deal, just like having our firearms in bits and stored in safes secured to the fabric of the building - we all do that.

Here in mainland UK, where we are generally not allowed to own regular-looking handguns, we DO have the so-called long-barrelled pistols and revolvers that many of you have seen. The barrels MUST be 12 inches or longer, often, in the case of the semi-auto .22 cal pistols, disguised as moderators, and a 'counterweight' sticking out of the butt that makes the whole thing 24 inches overall. See them on Youtube and laff. I have a Ruger Super Redhawk in .357Mag with a Burris scope - I'm too ashamed to put it on my Youtube channel - tac's guns. Because there is no such category as LBR in law they are called 'carbines'. Hmmmm.

Our Firearms Certificates last five years, and cost, ATM, £80, no matter how many firearms you have, one or fifty. Same for shotguns, only cheaper - I don't have any shotguns, so I can't comment. I guess the same as the deal up there in the North, where they can have handguns of any calibre.

So, overall, a lot of laws that make no sense to anybody who HAS any sense for us all. In my county, rural with a huge shotgun population of around 20,000 and almost 2000 Section 1 owners, the Chief constable a few years back decided that a limit of twelve Section 1 was a good idea, to reduce the 'threat to public safety'. I already had eighteen at that time. The next county over, there is no practical limit to the number of Section 1 firearms that you can own - some of my fellow gun club members have in excess of forty or fifty - who knows?

Kran

NASRPC wrote: »

It depends if you have restricted or unrestricted licenses.

Your Super or Chief can also just make it a condition with only one license.

If you have three or more restricted, you require a monitored alarm.
E.g.
A 12 gauge side by side shotgun,
a buckmark rifle (. 22lr),
a buckmark pistol (. 22lr),
a marlin. 38 lever and
a glock 9mm pistol
require a monitored alarm
(because of the. 22 rifle as it was the third restricted license)

S.I. No. 307/2009 - Firearms (Secure Accommodation) Regulations 2009

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/307/made/en/print

So that .22lr rifle is restricted? Is it basically because it’s the same as the pistol but with a stock? Is there a definitive list of what’s restricted? Other than this which reads like mumbo jumbo to me http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/21/made/en/print
A restricted- in restricted firearms for dummies is what I need

gavindublin

For me it would be the removable of the dynamic wording.
Open up the whole country to a new stream of competitions and try include more shooters.

tac foley

PS - I should have added that the appearance of a the firearm has absolutely NO significance whatsoever. It can look as 'black and evil' as Darth Vader's underwear, it is of no consequence.

Hack12

Kran wrote:

So that .22lr rifle is restricted? Is it basically because it’s the same as the pistol but with a stock? Is there a definitive list of what’s restricted? Other than this which reads like mumbo jumbo to me http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/21/made/en/print A restricted- in restricted firearms for dummies is what I need

Under Irish law the buck mark rifle is a bullpup which is a restricted firearm.

Law is a bit of an ass on this one as it stipulates magazine behind trigger but it really should be action

Zxthinger

As far as restricted firearms goes there need to be a re-think regarding mag limits and bulpup imo or a list of exempted firearms named.

One example of a firearm that get cast in bad light by this law is the little Bruno SA-22. It's tube feed, and its tube feeds from the below the comb in the rifle butt thus it's restricted.

Maybe magizines and non-detachable tubes should be classed differently.
" well of course they should have been"

Grizzly 45

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Creating a law...A constitutional amendment that guarantees the right to keep and bear arms.

F#ck no. Enough nonsense out of America because of that.

Hack12

Agree to a point. For the most point it's not needed in Ireland. Most semi autos 22 are probably used for Gallery Rifle which is general is 6 rounds per mag.

In saying that if you're ok to be licenced you're ok regardless.

If ya have 30 cal in bolt action thats ok but in semi no it's restricted....

You can have a 308 bolt action unrestricted but because the lump of lead in your 38/44 lever rifle is "bigger" than a 308 it's restricted but yet velocity etc doesn't come into it.

Can't blame AGS as they implement the law but it does need to be looked at by someone who knows about ballistics/firearms etc

Zxthinger

Why not.
You should have the right. This privilege SH1-T is literally that SHHHIT.

Hack12

Because if it's a right.... leads to problems.... anyone who has spent time with firearms knows there is people that should never be allowed near them.

Zxthinger

Hack12 wrote: »

Agree to a point. For the most point it's not needed in Ireland. Most semi autos 22 are probably used for Gallery Rifle which is general is 6 rounds per mag.

In saying that if you're ok to be licenced you're ok regardless.

If ya have 30 cal in bolt action thats ok but in semi no it's restricted....

You can have a 308 bolt action unrestricted but because the lump of lead in your 38/44 lever rifle is "bigger" than a 308 it's restricted but yet velocity etc doesn't come into it.

Can't blame AGS as they implement the law but it does need to be looked at by someone who knows about ballistics/firearms etc

The controls on these items are not really needed to the extent that the law pushes them but the law is trying to catch all. Solution; A list of agreed dispensations could be drawn up and in mins.

GarIT

I'd outlaw all guns completely except for the Gardaí and the army.