If you could change one law...

GolfVI

If there was a sudden law change in Ireland regarding firearms , what one law would you like to see changed/created?
Im aware theres so much that could be changed , but if you had to choose just one what would it be?

For me it would be reloading at home.

I do enjoy watching on youtube American shooters creating and testing ammo batches at home. Seems like a whole new aspect to the sport and something I would enjoy.

Nekarsulm

For me it would be a change to licencing the owner, not each individual firearm.
List them on the licence, by all means, but if I'm responsible enough to own 3, why not 13?
A bit like the UK system.

GolfVI

Nekarsulm wrote: »

For me it would be a change to licencing the owner, not each individual firearm.
List them on the licence, by all means, but if I'm responsible enough to own 3, why not 13?
A bit like the UK system.

In that case would it be a one license covers all? Or would you still need a separate one for pistols, rifles etc

A bit like the current Irish drivers license system, once you pass your car test you can drive any/how many cars you want..

However you will need another test for a truck/motorbike/bus..

Nekarsulm

The Irish driver licence comparison would be really apt, because you can have everything from a scooter to a truck and drag on the one licence ( if you've passed the relevant test) and all classes stay on subsequent licences without any further official interference.

TheEngineer1

I would love to be able to shoot centerfire pistols

Grizzly 45

Creating a law...A constitutional amendment that guarantees the right to keep and bear arms.

Changing a law... Reintroduction of CF handguns.

Grizzly 45

GolfVI wrote: »

In that case would it be a one license covers all? Or would you still need a separate one for pistols, rifles etc

A bit like the current Irish drivers license system, once you pass your car test you can drive any/how many cars you want..

However, you will need another test for a truck/motorbike/bus..

Slight difference in comparison of motorised vehicles, which can do more damage than any firearm. There are more variables in driving a car, truck, bike etc safely with hundreds of others surrounding you doing the same than there is in using a gun safely.Hence you have a graded license for motor vehicles.

However using a gun be it a BB or 50 cal, requires alot less operation procedures and fast judgement calls, than driving your car to the local shop and back.
So graded liscenses are not a good idea with firearms.

GolfVI

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Slight difference in comparison of motorised vehicles, which can do more damage than any firearm. There are more variables in driving a car, truck, bike etc safely with hundreds of others surrounding you doing the same than there is in using a gun safely.Hence you have a graded license for motor vehicles.

However using a gun be it a BB or 50 cal, requires alot less operation procedures and fast judgement calls, than driving your car to the local shop and back.
So graded liscenses are not a good idea with firearms.

In regards to the comparison i was refering to the concept that on a car licence its one single card with all other licences on the back.. not a seperate license for each vehicle

By making a gun license the same you apply for example a shotgun lisence and are granted it.. and therefore can purchase as many shotguns as one wishes..

However to get a rifle you must apply again for a rifle license.. then it will be stamped on the back of your current licence that you can purchase a rifle also

So one card for multiple classes of firearm

Just like its one card for multiple classes of vehicles

Kran

Currently the one I’d like changed is the one about a monitored alarm for more than four guns. I live fairly rural and have my guns behind a locked gate, locked doors, locked attic stairs and locked in a substantial gun safe, also have an alarm that texts me and cameras and a dog. I just can’t bring myself to pay extra for a monitored alarm that will contact the guards who will take longer than me to get there. I think that’s reasonably secure, definitely more so than the guards themselves who left a gun fall out the back of a car and drove off earlier this year.

gunny123

TheEngineer1 wrote: »

I would love to be able to shoot centerfire pistols

Had both rimfire and centrefire pistols. In shooting paper targets, you can have as much fun with a rimfire, and its much cheaper to feed.

Zxthinger

I'd make low power air rifles and air pistols available in any quantity under a single free licence. They'd still have to be registered and recorded and tracked but if you are a suitable person of temperate character then knock your self out.

That would create a mass of shooting opportunities for all.

However it would be hard to stop there.

Id make large crossbows unrestricted and licences as above. (I.e. Not pistol crossbow)

Pistols would be allow to have any amount of chambers.

Pistol ammunition would be extended to all rimfire ammo.

Remove the prohibitions on the use of silencers when shooting birds with supersonic centre fire chambered rifles.

Extend the deer licence to match the firearm licence.

Roll out reloading to the hunters and target shooters that want it (yes I said hunters)

Extend the deer hunting season and offer the extension to bow hunters.

Make it one licence fee per reciever and have as many calibres as required printed on that one licence.

Remove the nonsense of the NPWS's requirement of 100acres and substitute it with a suitable parcel of land..

Write into law the right of fox hunters to hunt at night.. and remain free from ridicule and harassment from other hunting groups.

Make it legal to hunt certain bird species with an air rifle such that it is not dependant on the wording in a derogation.

Removal all protection in law for magpies. Dont forget that they were introduced and are a pest species that is destroying our native birds.

Make it allowable to shoot vermin from a vehicle if on private ground.

Make electric fox callers legal.

Allow musket shooting and hunting.

There's a few to be getting on with.. and to be honest they're mild enough.

Zxthinger

Concession on the storage SI regarding the storage of non restricted historical firearms.

pm.

Kran wrote: »

Currently the one I’d like changed is the one about a monitored alarm for more than four guns. I live fairly rural and have my guns behind a locked gate, locked doors, locked attic stairs and locked in a substantial gun safe, also have an alarm that texts me and cameras and a dog. I just can’t bring myself to pay extra for a monitored alarm that will contact the guards who will take longer than me to get there. I think that’s reasonably secure, definitely more so than the guards themselves who left a gun fall out the back of a car and drove off earlier this year.

HI kran,

I think you might just be unlucky with your super. The monitored alarm is for 6 or more but that's at the discretion of your super.

On the monitored part the security company will still call you first then another nominated person then the guards it's a joke, like you I have the same set up. The alarm will text me as will the app and I can set/ reset the alarm remotely

Kran

pm. wrote: »

HI kran,

I think you might just be unlucky with your super. The monitored alarm is for 6 or more but that's at the discretion of your super.

On the monitored part the security company will still call you first then another nominated person then the guards it's a joke, like you I have the same set up. The alarm will text me as will the app and I can set/ reset the alarm remotely

Really it’s 6? Why did I think it was 4, I’m sure I read that somewhere. I’ve not personally talked with my Super but I’ve never had a problem get anything so far, silencers on license, night vision scope etc. Looks like the cabinet will be getting fuller next year if your right!

Grizzly 45

Remove the nonsense of the NPWS's requirement of 100acres and substitute it with a suitable parcel of land..

That one is of utter legal dubious and could be challenged as there is no mention of minimum acreage in any of the wildlife acts or even the firearms acts...Makey up law on NPWS side.

Asus1

1 man/woman equals 1 licence for say €50 a year.With that licence you can have as many firearms of the caliber or calibers that you have been licensed to hold by the guards.So if I got licensed for a 22lr with this new licence I could have 1 or 10 of the same caliber and if I applied for a shotgun that would go on the same licence and I would also be able to hold 1 or 10 if my application was successful for it.
Also if already holding a firearms licence you should be able to walk into a RFD and walk out with a air rifle after the RFD has put the serial number into a new air rifle database, thus the rifle is registered to you.

pm.

Kran wrote: »

Really it’s 6? Why did I think it was 4, I’m sure I read that somewhere. I’ve not personally talked with my Super but I’ve never had a problem get anything so far, silencers on license, night vision scope etc. Looks like the cabinet will be getting fuller next year if your right!

Yeah it's definitely 6, tbh I only found that out here about 3 months ago and with that in mind my 5th gun was bought and I picked her up last night

Had to change the gun safe to hold them, it will hold a couple more but once I hit 6 it's a requirement for me to have a monitored alarm. I know it's only around 20 a month for a company to monitor but I'm happy with my lot.......... For now

Gorgeousgeorge

Love it to be like the uk. Sgc and fac.

NASRPC

Kran wrote: »

Really it’s 6? Why did I think it was 4, I’m sure I read that somewhere. I’ve not personally talked with my Super but I’ve never had a problem get anything so far, silencers on license, night vision scope etc. Looks like the cabinet will be getting fuller next year if your right!

It depends if you have restricted or unrestricted licenses.

Your Super or Chief can also just make it a condition with only one license.

If you have three or more restricted, you require a monitored alarm.
E.g.
A 12 gauge side by side shotgun,
a buckmark rifle (. 22lr),
a buckmark pistol (. 22lr),
a marlin. 38 lever and
a glock 9mm pistol
require a monitored alarm
(because of the. 22 rifle as it was the third restricted license)

S.I. No. 307/2009 - Firearms (Secure Accommodation) Regulations 2009

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/307/made/en/print

tac foley

In mianland UK - road -

All air guns up 12ft lbs - NO licence, but you must be 18 or over the purchase - except Scotland, where the National Socialist Democratic Workers' Party AKA SNP has recently introduced airgun licensing in an effort to prevent its drugged-up parent citizens from shooting their babies in the head to see how it works.

All air guns over 12 ft lbs - Firearms Certificate with individual entries for each gun.

All shotguns, SxS, O&U, pump or semi-auto with up to THREE-shot capacity and a barrel over 24 inches - Shotgun Certificate. One certificate = as many shotguns as you can afford to buy and/or store. This includes ANY smoothbore up to and including 2 inch bore- as in a punt gun, for instance, or a reduced-calibre cannon. Any smoothbore with a barrel less than 24 inches needs a Firearms Certificate - that includes Western-style 'coach' guns and miniature cannon of any calibre. Want to shoot a Brown Bess musket of .75cal or .a Charleville of .69cal? Easy, it's a 'shotgun' - go right ahead. All muzzleloaders that are smoothbore, even when firing a full-calibre ball, are classed as shotguns.

All shotgun, pump or semi-auto with a more than three-shot capacity - Firearms Certificate with individual entries for each gun.

All rifled firearms [Called Section 1 firearms] in the following categories, all centrefire rifles/carbine of any kind of action except semi-auto, including modern replicas, need a Firearms Certificate. ONE firearms Certificate has ALL your Section 1 firearms entered on it. This also includes any black powder replica handgun up to and including .75 inch. All rimfire rifles and carbines, including smei-autos, are classed as Section 1 - no prohibition there like there is for the centre-fires.

Over here we do not have 'restricted' firearms by calibre - the notion that a .38cal firearm is somehow WAAAAY more deadly than a .30-06 because the bullet has a larger diameter has so far escaped the law-makers in the UK - so perhaps it's best not to mention it, right? Also there is no limit to the magazine capacity for ANY firearm. If somebody made a 100-round magazine for any firearm then you could buy a truckload of them and shoot forever. Oh wait, somebody already DOES make one. We DO have to have a sound moderator on the Firearms Certificate, though, but you can buy one for an air rifle without any paperwork - go figure.

We can shoot all night, too, although I bleeve you can, but not at foxes? Is that right? So what do you shoot at night?

Like you, we have limitations on ammunition holdings, but unlike you, we can reload any calibre that we possess, and in our front room or parlour - even, as I often do, in the back of my mini-van on the range. I'm very unlikely to reload 700 rounds at one time of 7.5x55 for my three Swiss rifles, but I could, if I felt like it. Reloading powder, including the Black Powder we use for our muzzleloaders, must be kept in a Home Office-approved safety container, but that's no big deal, just like having our firearms in bits and stored in safes secured to the fabric of the building - we all do that.

Here in mainland UK, where we are generally not allowed to own regular-looking handguns, we DO have the so-called long-barrelled pistols and revolvers that many of you have seen. The barrels MUST be 12 inches or longer, often, in the case of the semi-auto .22 cal pistols, disguised as moderators, and a 'counterweight' sticking out of the butt that makes the whole thing 24 inches overall. See them on Youtube and laff. I have a Ruger Super Redhawk in .357Mag with a Burris scope - I'm too ashamed to put it on my Youtube channel - tac's guns. Because there is no such category as LBR in law they are called 'carbines'. Hmmmm.

Our Firearms Certificates last five years, and cost, ATM, £80, no matter how many firearms you have, one or fifty. Same for shotguns, only cheaper - I don't have any shotguns, so I can't comment. I guess the same as the deal up there in the North, where they can have handguns of any calibre.

So, overall, a lot of laws that make no sense to anybody who HAS any sense for us all. In my county, rural with a huge shotgun population of around 20,000 and almost 2000 Section 1 owners, the Chief constable a few years back decided that a limit of twelve Section 1 was a good idea, to reduce the 'threat to public safety'. I already had eighteen at that time. The next county over, there is no practical limit to the number of Section 1 firearms that you can own - some of my fellow gun club members have in excess of forty or fifty - who knows?

Kran

NASRPC wrote: »

It depends if you have restricted or unrestricted licenses.

Your Super or Chief can also just make it a condition with only one license.

If you have three or more restricted, you require a monitored alarm.
E.g.
A 12 gauge side by side shotgun,
a buckmark rifle (. 22lr),
a buckmark pistol (. 22lr),
a marlin. 38 lever and
a glock 9mm pistol
require a monitored alarm
(because of the. 22 rifle as it was the third restricted license)

S.I. No. 307/2009 - Firearms (Secure Accommodation) Regulations 2009

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/307/made/en/print

So that .22lr rifle is restricted? Is it basically because it’s the same as the pistol but with a stock? Is there a definitive list of what’s restricted? Other than this which reads like mumbo jumbo to me http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/21/made/en/print
A restricted- in restricted firearms for dummies is what I need

gavindublin

For me it would be the removable of the dynamic wording.
Open up the whole country to a new stream of competitions and try include more shooters.

tac foley

PS - I should have added that the appearance of a the firearm has absolutely NO significance whatsoever. It can look as 'black and evil' as Darth Vader's underwear, it is of no consequence.

Hack12

Kran wrote:

So that .22lr rifle is restricted? Is it basically because it’s the same as the pistol but with a stock? Is there a definitive list of what’s restricted? Other than this which reads like mumbo jumbo to me http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/21/made/en/print A restricted- in restricted firearms for dummies is what I need

Under Irish law the buck mark rifle is a bullpup which is a restricted firearm.

Law is a bit of an ass on this one as it stipulates magazine behind trigger but it really should be action

Zxthinger

As far as restricted firearms goes there need to be a re-think regarding mag limits and bulpup imo or a list of exempted firearms named.

One example of a firearm that get cast in bad light by this law is the little Bruno SA-22. It's tube feed, and its tube feeds from the below the comb in the rifle butt thus it's restricted.

Maybe magizines and non-detachable tubes should be classed differently.
" well of course they should have been"

Grizzly 45

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Creating a law...A constitutional amendment that guarantees the right to keep and bear arms.

F#ck no. Enough nonsense out of America because of that.

Hack12

Agree to a point. For the most point it's not needed in Ireland. Most semi autos 22 are probably used for Gallery Rifle which is general is 6 rounds per mag.

In saying that if you're ok to be licenced you're ok regardless.

If ya have 30 cal in bolt action thats ok but in semi no it's restricted....

You can have a 308 bolt action unrestricted but because the lump of lead in your 38/44 lever rifle is "bigger" than a 308 it's restricted but yet velocity etc doesn't come into it.

Can't blame AGS as they implement the law but it does need to be looked at by someone who knows about ballistics/firearms etc

Zxthinger

Why not.
You should have the right. This privilege SH1-T is literally that SHHHIT.

Hack12

Because if it's a right.... leads to problems.... anyone who has spent time with firearms knows there is people that should never be allowed near them.

Zxthinger

Hack12 wrote: »

Agree to a point. For the most point it's not needed in Ireland. Most semi autos 22 are probably used for Gallery Rifle which is general is 6 rounds per mag.

In saying that if you're ok to be licenced you're ok regardless.

If ya have 30 cal in bolt action thats ok but in semi no it's restricted....

You can have a 308 bolt action unrestricted but because the lump of lead in your 38/44 lever rifle is "bigger" than a 308 it's restricted but yet velocity etc doesn't come into it.

Can't blame AGS as they implement the law but it does need to be looked at by someone who knows about ballistics/firearms etc

The controls on these items are not really needed to the extent that the law pushes them but the law is trying to catch all. Solution; A list of agreed dispensations could be drawn up and in mins.

GarIT

I'd outlaw all guns completely except for the Gardaí and the army.

Zxthinger

Hack12 wrote: »

Because if it's a right.... leads to problems.... anyone who has spent time with firearms knows there is people that should never be allowed near them.

A new law would deal with this potential nutters. Same way the current law deals with them.. back ground checks and medical assessments.
Once a man has been passed as fit he should be allow to buy any fizzing gun he likes..
the current system is no better a stopping nutters.

iscoed

GarIT wrote: »

I'd outlaw all guns completely except for the Gardaí and the army.

And Criminals of course

GarIT

iscoed wrote: »

And Criminals of course

There's not much you can do to stop them but if there was less access to guns in the country it would prevent one supply line for them.

I'm not against shooting, I can enjoy it and understand why others do too. I just think if a ban could save a few lives even over a really long term it could be worth it. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic.

Zxthinger

GarIT wrote: »

I'd outlaw all guns completely except for the Gardaí and the army.

You'd be right too, once the law abiding citizens had over their guns the way he cops would only have the criminals to deal with.
People forget that law abiding citizens who hold licences firearms are simply law abiding citizens. If they are ordered to had over guns they will,
So your ban would nothing to lessen crime!

GolfVI

GarIT wrote: »

There's not much you can do to stop them but if there was less access to guns in the country it would prevent one supply line for them.

I'm not against shooting, I can enjoy it and understand why others do too. I just think if a ban could save a few lives even over a really long term it could be worth it. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic.

Considering most of the gun crime in the country is with centrefire pistols , which are already illegal.. it wont make a slight bit of difference

Hack12

GarIT wrote:

I'd outlaw all guns completely except for the Gardaí and the army.

Welcome to communism.....

It's used a sport by most people or else hunting. Ireland has a long tradition of firearms and are World.Champions or highly rated in the world as target shooters.

Outlawing will not change the scumbags having them and all true firearms sportsmen and women would never want to be associated with anything to do with them.

Gun owners in Ireland hand over a lot of freedoms for there sport.

- Garda can run background checks.
- Access your doctor to see if mental health problems
- Visit your home to ensure firearms secured .

Firearms owner's in Ireland are overall the most veted people in the state and are extremely law abiding.

Zxthinger

GarIT wrote: »

There's not much you can do to stop them but if there was less access to guns in the country it would prevent one supply line for them.

I'm not against shooting, I can enjoy it and understand why others do too. I just think if a ban could save a few lives even over a really long term it could be worth it. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic.

Ban cars, maybe bouncy castles too, but number of deaths attributed to legally held guns is nearly non existent save for suicide. But if people can't get a gun they use a rope and a bridge or just a bridge.

GarIT

Zxthinger wrote: »

You'd be right too, once the law abiding citizens had over their guns the way he cops would only have the criminals to deal with.
People forget that law abiding citizens who hold licences firearms are simply law abiding citizens. If they are ordered to had over guns they will,
So your ban would nothing to lessen crime!

I've no statistics on it but I've occasionly seen mentions in new reports where guns used in crime had serials removed, I'm assuming they could have been obtained legitimately.

An alternate suggestion would be to introduce a gun inspector who can randomly check if the owner of a gun still has it and if not they could face criminal charges for not reporting it stolen.

Nekarsulm

GarIT wrote: »

I'd outlaw all guns completely except for the Gardaí and the army.

Better if you outlawed the importation of drugs by criminal cartels, and the parallel importation of illegal firearms.

But hey, the Gardai know where the legally owned guns are, so it'd be handier to confiscate them instead.
Would look good for the Press Office too...

GarIT

I'm learning a lot here. I'm going to bow out, as I said earlier on maybe I'm being overly optimistic that it would have an effect on gun crime. Not that I am in any way associating legitimate gun owners with criminals. Just that I suspected criminals may pose as legitimate gun owners.

Hack12

GarIT wrote:

I'm learning a lot here. I'm going to bow out, as I said earlier on maybe I'm being overly optimistic that it would have an effect on gun crime. Not that I am in any way associating legitimate gun owners with criminals. Just that I suspected criminals may pose as legitimate gun owners.

Criminals would not be granted a firearms certificate by AGS.

Nekarsulm

GarIT wrote: »

I'm learning a lot here. I'm going to bow out, as I said earlier on maybe I'm being overly optimistic that it would have an effect on gun crime. Not that I am in any way associating legitimate gun owners with criminals. Just that I suspected criminals may pose as legitimate gun owners.

Of course you are associating legitimate sportsmen and women with criminal behaviour, why elsecall for confiscation of their firearms to combat crime?

If the serial number is filed off, its because a criminal dosen't want to be associated with a particular burgulary.
And of course Gardai check owners guns.
Mine were inspected this past year.
Criminals pose as legitimate gun owners? You do know applicants are vetted , and any criminal record will disqualify them from ownership?

Do you think criminals would waive their right to privacy?
Sign a form allowing the Gardai enter their homes without a warrant at any time to inspect their guns?
Sign a form allowing their Doctor hand over their medical records to the Gardai?

How many crimes were committed by licenced gun owners this past 12 months?

gunny123

GarIT wrote: »

I'm learning a lot here. I'm going to bow out, as I said earlier on maybe I'm being overly optimistic that it would have an effect on gun crime. Not that I am in any way associating legitimate gun owners with criminals. Just that I suspected criminals may pose as legitimate gun owners.

Nearly everything was "temporarily" banned here in 1972, when the poo storm broke out in the north, Pistols were gone as were rifles over .22 calibre, everything was seriously restricted, even the amount of ammo you could have. Despite this there were shootings everyday. I certainly remember watching Charles Mitchell or whoever on the rte news, giving details of often multiple shootings all over the north. It became background noise.

So if most guns were banned, how come there were so many shootings ? People like Col Gadaffi, sent very effective military grade firearms and explosives, by the trawler-full. Also another paragon of virtue, Whitey Bulger, sent huge shipments of serious firepower here.

Simplistic "lets ban everything" just does not work.

Nekarsulm

And thats without senior politicians illegally importing guns ....

Grizzly 45

[Deleted User] wrote: »

F#ck no. Enough nonsense out of America because of that.

Really??Do elborate ....
You obviously have an execellent insight about that "nonsense out of America"Go away and educate yourself where it came from first off.(England).Second .It would solve all our nonsense liscensing problems in this country. Third .Funny that the Czech republic has just adopted a version of this" nonsense" in their constitution.

Grizzly 45

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Really??Do elborate ....
You obviously have an execellent insight about that "nonsense out of America"Go away and educate yourself where it came from first off.(England).Second .It would solve all our nonsense liscensing problems in this country. Third .Funny that the Czech republic has just adopted a version of this" nonsense" in their constitution.

No, you're proposing the change. You demonstrate why making something a right is necessary.

I have no "right" to my over and under. I must show that I am responsible enough to have it, and rightly so. I need a license to use a car and must prove my ability. Why do you think a fire arm should be a right?

Don't feel the need to go away either, for education. Have several degrees already thanks.
So you see nothing wrong with America's "right to bear arms"? That ammendment hasn't caused any issue in fighting their shooting epidemic (using legally purchased weapons). Nothing at all?

Grizzly 45

Hack12 wrote: »

Because if it's a right.... leads to problems.... anyone who has spent time with firearms knows there is people that should never be allowed near them.

You could say that about any "right"
Right to freedom of speech= "Hate speech" from Islamists and Neo-Nazis, let's do away with that,as it might offend or incite people to violence,or someone might yell Fire! in a crowded theatre.Plus if the founding fathers could never foresee "rapid-fire weapons"[BS as there were such in existance].They could never foresee the internet and the abuse of freedom of speech.

The right of freedom of the press= Seditious literature or hardcore porn,or extremist literature or mean tweets. Let's ban those as well.

Freedom of the right to not self incriminate oneself of an accused crime=Well prosecution can now infer to a court or jury that by maintaining one's silence, the accused has something to hide on the crime.

The right to be secure in one's possessions and papers. "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear!" Been to the USA recently??Gone thru TSA/Homeland security where they can demand you switch on all electronic equipment,and that they can demand to see the file content of your machine?? But hey that bothersome "right "of yours might be preventing a 5$an hour high school dropout peon, from preventing the next terrorist attack on the USA! So that has been done away with too.

Like guns, rights are inanimate objects that can be used for good or evil intent. However your "security" or "the state security" does not trump my inalienable rights either. So I'd rather have and deal with the problems of rights, than not have them in the first place. Thanks!

Describe why you need gun ownership as a right?

Grizzly 45

]

No, you're proposing the change. You demonstrate why making something a right is necessary.

No I'm an expressing an opinion of an impossible situation occurring here in Ireland. You stated opinion from either ignorance or lack of knowledge of a country who has an utterly unique position in the World of granting its citizens, more or less a constitutional right to keep arms.It up to you to prove your assertion that this is "nonsense" of a right that has existed for over 200 years.

I have no "right" to my over and under. I must show that I am responsible enough to have it, and rightly so. I need a license to use a car and must prove my ability. Why do you think a fire arm should be a right?

Too right you don't have a "right" as you are not living in the USA.:D:D

Second, you are not comparing correctly in that car example. You need a license to drive on a public road, both here and in the US*. There is nothing stopping you buying as many cars as you want here in Ireland and driving them on private property in any manner you chose, as is in the US. Try buying X number of guns and shooting them on your private property here.Nor does your license here prove that you are capable of using a firearm safely or responsibly here in public or in a private capacity. It simply grants you conditional usage that can be withdrawn at any given time on an official whim. Same as your driver's license, you got it for demonstrating at a point in time that you proved competence in certain situations.Not that it guarantees safety and competence all the time either,as proven by our road carnage.

Also,I don't think it is a "right" it is a inalienable right of any person to have means to protect their right to live with any means possible.If that includes "arms" Ie anything from a rock to a state of the art full auto firearm,to protect yourself and yours. Then have to.

Don't feel the need to go away either, for education. Have several degrees already thanks.

There are plenty of fools with degrees in the world. Do any of yours happen to be US constitutional law? Specifically related to 2nd amendment law? Because you are arguing against about 200 years of some of the most brilliant legal minds that the US legal system has produced, and the consensus so far is that 2a is an individual inalienable right.

So you see nothing wrong with America's "right to bear arms"? That ammendment hasn't caused any issue in fighting their shooting epidemic (using legally purchased weapons). Nothing at all?

No none at all!As it is a constitutional right and has worked quite well for the last 230 years as have all their other rights too. As for epidemics, Id suggest you research what actually kills more Americans in "epidemics" But I'll make it easy for ya... Lung cancer, obesity, alcohol, medical misdiagnosis,car accidents, falling off ladders, down flights of stairs, and choking on hot dogs. Shootings don't even make into the top ten of killings in the US, contrary to popular belief
But don't take my word for it.The Atlanta centre for disease control and the FBI provide the stats every year for what kills Americans the most,and funnily enough, since concealed carry permits came in 25 years ago this year, personal gun crime has dropped in every state and nationwide.Apart from those states that prohibit it.




*Questionable whether needed by some as some state laws do not mention a need for licensing to use motor vehicles on a public road. It is argued that it is a Federal requirement not a State requirement]

Grizzly 45

Deleted User wrote: »

Describe why you need gun ownership as a right?

I dont "Need " gun ownership right ,it is an inalienable right already granted under US law and English common law going back to Magna Carta.Also because a very smart bunch of men 200 plus years ago saw that RTKBA would grauntee all the other rights in the US bill of rights .Otherwise what would enforce those rights on a govt determined to remove them?