How do you see the state of snooker in RoI?

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Only Fergal and Ken on the main tour, and both could fall out of the top 64 at the end of the season.

Still no Irish ranking event where we can watch the world's best play live, which is very disappointing. Used to love going to the Irish Masters.

Only 8 people from RoI entered Q School. The best performance were Michael Judge and Greg Casey reaching semi finals.

2 WPBSA snooker coaches: PJ Nolan from Co. Carlow, Fin Ruane from Dublin.


All in all - a bit crap. Should be interesting to see if our best hope Josh Boileau will enter Q School 2019, or if his last experience has left him disillusioned.

Ultimate Seduction

Its the same with darts. Its played in almost every pub in the country but only 2 players from the republic on the tour. The highest ranked Irish player of all time is #47. Always baffles me.

Joe_ Public

Some great people working tirelessly at grassroots level, like all sports, but they’re fighting very much a losing battle. When you look at what is happening in china with school programmes and academies it seems pretty obvious the game will grow over there and continue its decline here.

Snooker is tough to master and not that much an attractive proposition for parents to present to their kids as a pastime. Golf has a chance because parents will happily take their kids to the course and get them started, but this is a very unlikely scenario with snooker. Promising golfers are also much more likely to garner state support in terms of funding, young snooker players all too often have to plough a lonely furrow.

I know ken has done some work with local schools and that has to be something worth focusing on. Sports can only flourish at an elite level by getting an optimal level of kids exposed to it and Irish snooker, somehow, has to tackle that problem.

ArmaniJeanss

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Still no Irish ranking event where we can watch the world's best play live, which is very disappointing. Used to love going to the Irish Masters.

Irish Masters was rarely a ranking event, it was a limited field non-ranking event all the time it took place in Goffs.
It was ranking for its last couple of renewals in City West.

We do have a ranking event on the island in Belfast, better than nothing I suppose.

Joe_ Public

The Irish masters was an absolutely fantastic event, really loved it. Benefited back in those days from being the last event before the crucible so the top players were always anxious to play well there. Also had a quite wonderful venue which I think steve davis is on record as saying it was his second favorite after Sheffield. Went to city west a couple of times but never got the same buzz out of it.

Arthur Daley

Just realised Joey's in Harmonstown closed just before New Year.:rolleyes:

Tables were nice in there, separated from the rest of the place with a room at the back, it wasn't a bad spot for a few frames.

https://www.facebook.com/joeyssnookerclub/photos/a.168598470343403/432017580668156/?type=3&theater

melon_collie

I'm sorry to say that the game is in decline both here and in the UK. However i don't think that this is the case in mainland Europe or the middle east.



The biggest problem here is the cost of running a club. €10/hour for a table just isn't enough to run a commercial club. The overheads are just too big: insurance, electricity, rates, etc.


The only clubs that seem to be surviving are the non profit clubs. For example, The 147 club closed in Wexford Town about 2 years ago. The tables are now located in St. Joseph's community centre about half a mile away.



From what I hear the club is pretty popular but it's not under the same pressure to make a profit as it was when it was commercial.


I think RIBSA need to realise that the commercial game is pretty much dead. I think that they need to liaise with local community groups or look into potential options like the one above to improve people's ability to access the game.


Unfortunately I don't think that they have the foresight to do this.



I really hope I am wrong.

Godot.

1. Aaron Hill (IRL) 28/02/2002 (17)
2. Ross Bulman (IRL) 05/07/2001 (17)
3. Ronan Whyte (IRL) 13/03/2000 (19)
4. Fergal Quinn (IRL) 11/03/2000 (19)
5. Noel Landers (IRL) 24/09/1999 (19)
6. Andrew Doherty (IRL) 17/04/1996 (23)
7. Josh Boileau (IRL) 02/07/1995 (23)
8. Leo Fernandez (IRL) 05/07/1976 (42)
9. Joe Delaney (IRL) 04/08/1972 (46)
10. Tony Corrigan (IRL) 24/10/1968 (50)
11. Dessie Sheehan (IRL) 03/09/1949 (69)

All the Irish lads entering Q School this year. Good luck to them all

Elmer Jones

Surely a big problem snooker has is there has always been a perception of sleaziness associated with it (rightly or wrongly) played in dark dingy smokey halls and very urban and working class, essentially its the exact opposite of golf in terms of perception.

I've never understood why the bodies running the sport don't try and get snooker tables into as many schools as possible across the country.

Joe_ Public

Elmer Jones wrote: »

Surely a big problem snooker has is there has always been a perception of sleaziness associated with it (rightly or wrongly) played in dark dingy smokey halls and very urban and working class, essentially its the exact opposite of golf in terms of perception.

I've never understood why the bodies running the sport don't try and get snooker tables into as many schools as possible across the country.

You are right historically, there has always been that negative perception of snooker halls as a place you dont want your kids hanging out. If it still exists, it's well misplaced, as most of the places i go to are modern, well kitted out and smoke free zones. For me and my pals, the local snooker hall was an obvious place for us to go and hang out for a few hours, even if we could scarcely afford the lighting fee for a game. There are so many rival attractions now and so many fewer clubs that kids are far less likely to be attracted or just wander in. How to address that problem?

I've heard Ken talk frequently about hooking up with schools, responding to what seems to be the case in China, but likely easier said than done I fear. Try as i might, i just dont see schools going for snooker tables, sedentary sport just isn't going to be an attraction for them. Plus who would bear the cost? The RIBSA gets around 70k annually from Sport Ireland, that's less than both surfing and judo get. They get no high performance funding either and you cant say they truly deserve it on any level. There are some great, far reaching clubs around the country but i imagine they are stretched just to keep going as they are. I wish i could feel more upbeat about things here, but it's hard to see where the upsurge in fortunes is going to come from.

realdanbreen

Elmer Jones wrote: »

Surely a big problem snooker has is there has always been a perception of sleaziness associated with it (rightly or wrongly) played in dark dingy smokey halls and very urban and working class, essentially its the exact opposite of golf in terms of perception.

I've never understood why the bodies running the sport don't try and get snooker tables into as many schools as possible across the country.

Great idea! and I can supply the cigarette machines if you like! Seriously, good idea. BTW whereabouts in Carlow is the Under 21 final on this weekend?

callaway92

Circles in Clonmel has been ruined now. It's more of a casino/arcade than a snooker club.

There's 1 decent 9-ball table. Half the amount of snooker tables that there used to be..but a ton of those scummy slot machines that mostly older people/unemployed chuck their money into every day.

Used to go in there a tonne when I was younger, but there's something rotten about the place now.

In saying that..if they didn't have the Casino they would either A) still not be around or be earning 20% of what they are now.

FR01

Read this yesterday and thought this was the place to post it....


https://snookerhq.com/2020/02/16/tour-survival-rankings-paint-sorry-picture-irish-snooker/

Joe_ Public

Worth saying i think that its not just ireland, but england as well and whole of uk. There isnt an English player under 25 inside the world's top 80 at present. Globalisation is all very well but without a much needed injection of new blood in its traditional base, i fear interest will only decline further. Judd Trump can only carry it so far.

As for here i like what i see from the likes of bulman, hill and landers. Whatever is going on down in cork, they are definitely doing something right. I'd be a bit more hopeful than i was 12 months ago.

FR01

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Worth saying i think that its not just ireland, but england as well and whole of uk. There isnt an English player under 25 inside the world's top 80 at present. Globalisation is all very well but without a much needed injection of new blood in its traditional base, i fear interest will only decline further. Judd Trump can only carry it so far.

As for here i like what i see from the likes of bulman, hill and landers. Whatever is going on down in cork, they are definitely doing something right. I'd be a bit more hopeful than i was 12 months ago.

Keep an eye on what’s happening in Northern Ireland, they have some new people at the helm up there. More numbers playing etc. I wouldn’t hold my hopes on young Bulman or Landers but Hill is certainly a far better prospect.

Joe_ Public

Ross Bulman came within a frame of securing his main tour card last year so i think he definitely has the right stuff. Hill is an exciting prospect for sure. Its a tough road, just wish them both and others the best of luck.

Chalk McHugh

Where do any of you lads play a few frames these days, if at all? I dont play much anymore. Lucan had a nice club but long gone. Q's in Clondalkin is a dump now. Celbridge is about the best out west. The Spawell is decent. Was visiting me Da last week down country and played three frames in Circles, Clonmel. Only about four full size tables upstairs. Was empty as during the day. I was brutal although got a break of 23 in final frame. If you dont use it you lose it. Such a hard game. The elite make it look so easy.

nkl12xtw5goz70

The state of snooker in the ROI has never been all that great, to be fair. England has obviously dominated the sport, but Scotland (population ~5 million) has produced Stephen Hendry, John Higgins, Graeme Dott, Stephen Maguire, Anthony McGill, and others. Wales (population ~3 million) has produced Ray Reardon, Doug Mountjoy, Terry Griffiths, Mark Williams, Matthew Stevens, and others. Northern Ireland (population ~2 million) has produced Alex Higgins, Dennis Taylor, Mark Allen, and Joe Swail.

The only truly noteworthy ROI players have been Doherty and O'Brien — and the latter was never one of the game's genuine elite, having won only one ranking title and never risen higher than 9th in the world. We have only one World Championship to our credit.

I'll accept that things are now going from bad to worse, but in reality we were never one of the top snooker-playing nations. If it wasn't for Doherty, we wouldn't even be on the map.

Chalk McHugh

Sara Rapid Papergirl wrote: »

The state of snooker in the ROI has never been all that great, to be fair. England has obviously dominated the sport, but Scotland (population ~5 million) has produced Stephen Hendry, John Higgins, Graeme Dott, Stephen Maguire, Anthony McGill, and others. Wales (population ~3 million) has produced Ray Reardon, Doug Mountjoy, Terry Griffiths, Mark Williams, Matthew Stevens, and others. Northern Ireland (population ~2 million) has produced Alex Higgins, Dennis Taylor, Mark Allen, and Joe Swail.

The only truly noteworthy ROI players have been Doherty and O'Brien — and the latter was never one of the game's genuine elite, having won only one ranking title and never risen higher than 9th in the world. We have only one World Championship to our credit.

I'll accept that things are now going from bad to worse, but in reality we were never one of the top snooker-playing nations. If it wasn't for Doherty, we wouldn't even be on the map.

Yes good post. Pretty abysmal return really in comparison to those countries of similiar population.

Joe_ Public

I suppose you could wonder what our expectations could be when gaa is such a massive part of our sporting culture and dominated in schools for decades. Wales had rugby of course, but still probably easier for a working class sport like snooker to gain a foothold. Was always definitely stronger in the north here, probably for same reason, with Jackie Rea inspiring the likes of higgins and Taylor and the following generations.

Would have been nice to have a few more players make it all the same. Eugene Hughes did alright as a journeyman for a few years, had his own club, made a career out of it. Patsy Fagan was a top player for a while, sadly never achieved his potential due to a nervous tic.

A lot of good irish players never made it, fergal did it the hard way, staying in ireland and travelling back and forth to compete. I think thats a very difficult thing to do, especially with very little money. Same for a lot of the chinese players now, very hard to move to a new country and settle, at such a young age i think.

FR01

We’ve had a few players over the last few years, Davy Morris gave a great account of himself at the U.K. a few years back when he beat Selby. Unfortunately the majority of the time it all boils down to expenses. Davy is back playing on the amateur circuit in Ireland and has probably earned more here than he did as a pro ! Young Josh Boileau was another prospect but personally I feel he left it too late to turn pro, I’m sure he eventually got his card via winning a European amateur event. Again lack of money to funds his expenses didn’t help his pro career and he’s now back playing amateur snooker.

Eugene was unlucky, he was resident pro in Ilford snooker club and was a member of the top 16, was part of the multiple winning irish World Cup team alongside Higgins & Taylor He lived in a nice part of Barking Essex and among the spoils of his success was a beautiful brand new Jaguar XJs sports car. Life was good until his manager was done by inland revenue and it then transpired that no tax was paid in Eugene’s earnings for several years. Obviously Eugene had to settle the bill, he sold up to finance the bill and moved back to Dublin, suffice to say this had a detrimental effect on his snooker and his career nosedived. He wasn’t the only one, Tony Knowles was hit badly too by the same manager.

Pasty won the U.K. but as you rightly mentioned the tic or yips he developed especially when using the rest along ended his career.

Stephen Murphy was another superb talent to turn pro and he did it the hard way by winning his card via several pro am events in late ‘89 early 1990. Stephen did well but what killed his game was the introduction of the fine cloths, the way he struck the ball didn’t suit these cloths and slowly he fell down the rankings and eventually packed it in. An appearance at the Cruicble and a member of the Irish World Cup runner up side his best runs.

The majority of the Chinese playera live in Sheffield and share several homes, their expenses are paid sponsorships and their snooker practice is looked after at the Star Academy in Sheffield. They obviously look up to Ding, Wenbo and Yan etc so it feels more like a home from home to them.

Joe_ Public

I dunno, relocating halfway across the globe as a teenager seems a tough thing to do to me, but who knows unless you experience it. I try to flip it, imagine a few dozen uk players having to move to China to further their careers at 15/16 and am struggling to conceive of it. Indeed 1000s of irish kids have been moving to England to take up football apprenticeships for decades and the stories of homesickness/depression are legion. And thats just a hop across the sea. Which is why i still have such respect for what ding did at 14, without a word of the language and a shy, quiet personality. Now that had to be tough.

bradolf pittler

I dont think snooker in the republic isn't that far off producing a major talent in the near future to be honest.
We have always punched above our weight in the amateur game and its never more than a few years pass before an irish name is on a ebsa or ibsf trophy.
European and World Champions like Goggins,O Donaghue,Hogan,Hill,Boileau,Dowling and Morris to name a few are still active in the game though only Hill and Bullman have realistic claims to turn pro.I dont see Landers coming anywhere near pro standard.
Its a tough life for a young snooker player,The strains both mental and financial are huge and most drop off tour after their 1st 2 year card is up.
Both Hill and Bullman have had Star tables installed in their homes which can only help their cause.Best of luck to them.
2 other names to look out for in the amateur ranks are Alex Currid from Wexford.Currently under the wing of the legend Rodney Goggins and Corks Leone Crowley.Both are in their teens and doing well in the under age scene.

FR01

FR01 wrote: »

Keep an eye on what’s happening in Northern Ireland, they have some new people at the helm up there. More numbers playing etc. I wouldn’t hold my hopes on young Bulman or Landers but Hill is certainly a far better prospect.

Hill always was the better player of the young Cork lads , hopefully they might use Aaron as a role model now and after last nights superb result against Ron junior snooker in Cork is on a high.

Rhys Essien

Great summary here of what Aaron Hill has achieved in his 4 years of picking up a snooker cue. I didn’t know that he also beat other World finalist Kyren Wilson this year. This kid could go on to be a total legend.

https://twitter.com/examinersport/status/1309482671882399749?s=21

refusetolose

what tournament will aaron hill play in next lads?

Joe_ Public

refusetolose wrote: »

what tournament will aaron hill play in next lads?

English Open, starting Monday week.

refusetolose

https://twitter.com/CorkSnooker/status/1310979705751900163

Joe_ Public

refusetolose wrote: »

https://twitter.com/CorkSnooker/status/1310979705751900163

Probably prefer to avoid the likes of Selby so early, but could have been worse, could have drawn him first round! Winnable match straight off, they're the ones you want to be winning.

refusetolose

whats next for aaron hill lads? Northern Ireland Open?

is it all the World ranking events he'll be involved in?

Joe_ Public

refusetolose wrote: »

whats next for aaron hill lads? Northern Ireland Open?

is it all the World ranking events he'll be involved in?

Got 3 or 4 big weeks coming up from next week, all comes thick and fast from now.

German Masters qualifiers
Northern Ireland Open
UK Championship qualifiers

refusetolose

thanks joe

Joe_ Public

Draw for German Masters qualifiers next week:

Aaron Hill v Billy Joe Castle
Ken Doherty v Liang Wenbo
Fergal O'Brien v Mark Selby

Remember Castle beating ronnie at the shoot out early this year, but it's a good draw by any stretch. Only thing, winner faces winner of Ken match next round!

No ronnie in draw, figure he needs the break from Milton Keynes!

Joe_ Public

A win today for Limericks Leo Fernandez in first round of German Masters. Aaron Hill up in the morning.

Like this interview from Shaun Murphy after his routine 5-0 win. This morning he'd done an interview on the subject of how difficult it was to get maximums. Then goes out and does exactly that in the second frame of his match.

https://twitter.com/WeAreWST/status/1326284531981312002?s=20

bradolf pittler

Bad news for Irish snooker coming out of Carlow today.
The Ivy Rooms club is closing down,The club has been holding most RIBSA'S competitions for years now and was the de facto spiritual home of Irish Snooker.
Just another nail in the coffin for commercial clubs in the country.

Joe_ Public

That is devastating news, such a fantastic club and of such vital strategic importance to irish snooker. Three closures this year due to lockdowns have obviously cut very hard, just wish there was something could be done to help there. Snooker gets so little financial help in this country, such a shame.

In better news, a good 5-2 win for Hill over Billy Joe Castle in German Masters. The type of matches he wants to be winning. Plays winner of Ken-Liang thursday for a place in the tournament proper in new year.

bradolf pittler

Also hearing that the new snooker council (SBI) are looking to open their own 6 to 8 table club/academy much like the ones we see opening in england.
Not sure if it can be a sustainable business but if its non profit and funded by the sports department of the government or lotto grants then it could be a great opportunity to have a top class facility here.

Joe_ Public

All over for Ken. Had a chance there but missed a fairly simple pink with the rest. So Hill v Liang on friday it will be.

waynescales1

Fergal dispatches Selby, 5-3. He faces Lichtenberg (who I have never heard of) for a place in the German Masters.

Didn’t realise Fergal’s ranking had dropped to 124, that is low.

Joe_ Public

Watched Fergal absolutely blow the second frame after selby required snookers to go 0-2 and was sure that was it. Then came back to see he'd won! Very pleasant surprise!

He's effectively on a wild card owing to the virus messing up the end of the season so his points went back to zero which is why he's so low down. Beating selby is huge if he can follow it up.

FR01

bradolf pittler wrote: »

Bad news for Irish snooker coming out of Carlow today.
The Ivy Rooms club is closing down,The club has been holding most RIBSA'S competitions for years now and was the de facto spiritual home of Irish Snooker.
Just another nail in the coffin for commercial clubs in the country.

That’s really sad to hear - first class facility, more a snooker academy than a club but without question one of the finest set ups in Ireland. Sad news indeed , hard to see where the new snooker council will host all their events now. Hopefully this is just a rumour and that the ivy rooms will reopen again when level 5 ends.

Joe_ Public

Afraid hill going down to first whitewash of pro career against Liang here. Safety just not good enough and errors getting punished as you'd expect against a good opponent cueing well. Just have to chalk it down to experience. Back again monday against Jackson Page in first round of Northern Ireland Open so quick chance to put tonight behind him.

bradolf pittler

FR01 wrote: »

That’s really sad to hear - first class facility, more a snooker academy than a club but without question one of the finest set ups in Ireland. Sad news indeed , hard to see where the new snooker council will host all their events now. Hopefully this is just a rumour and that the ivy rooms will reopen again when level 5 ends.

No its 100% true unfortunately.
The owner informed the SBI council this week and its widespread among the players.
The new SBI council will really have a job on their hands to promote and grow the game with clubs closing down.

Joe_ Public

Its just really tough here when you're not one of the big three sports or on the olympic roster. You're surviving on crumbs. Last i saw cue sports were getting around 60k annually from the government which puts it on a par with the likes of surfing and table tennis. And in the latest round of covid emergency sports grants, i saw nothing listed for snooker. Unless hearn can work some miracle with the crowd in switzerland, it's hard to see that changing anytime soon.

FR01

bradolf pittler wrote: »

No its 100% true unfortunately.
The owner informed the SBI council this week and its widespread among the players.
The new SBI council will really have a job on their hands to promote and grow the game with clubs closing down.

Yep I just heard from someone reliable that the owner of the ivys is selling the unit to a furniture company, the owner is involved at a high level with the Irish governing body formally know as RIBSA but now SBI so I’m sure they’ve known for a while.

Can’t see many clubs giving up their premises to SBI for weekends at a time solely for running events ? I always felt running everything at the IVYS was going to come back and haunt RIBSA some time, the grassroots of the game ie the normal snooker clubs were left behind and ignored for too long.

However as you mentioned the SBI will have a huge job now and trying to convince clubs to host tournaments will prove difficult. Will more than likely see the majority of the tournaments held in Celbridge and Darcys now.

The players will have to get used to playing in club conditions again now that the high standards at the Ivys will not be available any more.

Interesting times ahead

Joe_ Public

Nice piece with Patsy Fagan here. Good to hear he's back playing and agree with him about the seniors, 40 is way too young for a cut off point. Should be 45 at a bare minimum as it used to be..

He talks about being excluded from the pro ranks by the senior players at the time, but doesn't mention that after he won the uk title in 1977, Joe Davis gave a speech during the prize giving ceremony that was conspicuous by neglecting to mention the new champion entirely.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/23/patsy-fagan-talks-uk-championship-glory-car-crash-yips-the-rocket-and-lost-trophies-13637003/

waynescales1

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Nice piece with Patsy Fagan here. Good to hear he's back playing and agree with him about the seniors, 40 is way too young for a cut off point. Should be 45 at a bare minimum as it used to be..

He talks about being excluded from the pro ranks by the senior players at the time, but doesn't mention that after he won the uk title in 1977, Joe Davis gave a speech during the prize giving ceremony that was conspicuous by neglecting to mention the new champion entirely.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/23/patsy-fagan-talks-uk-championship-glory-car-crash-yips-the-rocket-and-lost-trophies-13637003/

Rare to hear that side of the Davis’ discussed, only ever hear them spoken of fondly, interesting.

40 is far too young these days, I’d set it at 50. Too unfair on the older players coming up against players just coming off the tour.

Joe_ Public

waynescales1 wrote: »

Rare to hear that side of the Davis’ discussed, only ever hear them spoken of fondly, interesting.

40 is far too young these days, I’d set it at 50. Too unfair on the older players coming up against players just coming off the tour.

It's basically old history and not really part of the official narrative. Which is understandable in a way. The davis' were great players and lorded over the sport for 50 years. But there was a new breed of player, led by higgins, coming through in the 70s that went against the more genteel image of the game and they fought it as long as they could. I remember jimmy often saying - years ago - that the best player he ever saw was Patsy Houlihan but the Davis' kept him out of the pro ranks because he had a criminal record for petty offences and was clearly a "wrong 'un". A lot of that generation were still probably smarting that the game had ever gone down the pro route at all!

50 should be the logical cut off point for seniors, but I'd guess the worry is they'd never sell it if they didn't have the quality of the younger players to draw on. Be nice to think you could have a proper competitive tour there but you'd probably have to split the difference and say 45 to make it viable.

Arthur Daley

The last frame and the presentation by Joe Davis at the 1977 UK championship is on you tube. Of course old Joe died the following summer.

I don't know where these guys dig some of these videos out of, but it's good that Patsy's win is up there for us to see after all these years.

Joe_ Public

Arthur Daley wrote: »

The last frame and the presentation by Joe Davis at the 1977 UK championship is on you tube. Of course old Joe died the following summer.

I don't know where these guys dig some of these videos out of, but it's good that Patsy's win is up there for us to see after all these years.

Great stuff. Haven't watched that for a while. A friend of Patsys set up a website a few years ago and uploaded all the footage they had. Can't see on my phone whether the links still work or not but i remember there was some nice footage with Patsy and Alex as well as the uk stuff.

http://www.patsyfagan.com/archives/video.html

fran38

Any one of ye know if the snooker club in Bray is still there. I was in it once back in 1991very briefly. Just wondering.