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Closure of Grafton College

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    #62
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    It’s the official language of the state so that’s why you need to change the constitution.
    It being a mandatory subject in schools has nothing to do with the constitution. Nor does the funding for TnaG etc. Nor the huge wastage of public transport having to display place names in (often "makey-uppy" irish) and signs etc.

    The only thing it being recognised as an official language means is that criminals and wasters can demand legal documents/hearings etc to be in irish. Once you remove it from schools and that is all that is left, then I think the vast majority would be happy to amend the constitution to relegate it to a status of "historical significance" etc.
    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    The majority are ok with funding it too (hardly a significant expense).
    It is a huge expense! So big, it is hard to put an exact figure on it. The sheer number of hours wasted over 14 years of education teaching people who will never use it is incredible. Think how much better off people would be (and the economy state etc) if all that time/effort was spent on teaching science or useful languages etc. But it is a lot more than that. How many students under-perform or drop out as they become disillusioned with school/education etc due to being forced to learn this BS?

    What about the huge expense of translating so many documents etc in to Irish each year that nobody ever reads. Or maintaining government websites in Irish (that nobody will ever use).


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    #63
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Meanwhile, English is being studied in every "communist" country as the second language.

    An expensive mistake I grant you. Should the US, Uk, Ireland and possibly even Australia turn communist, English will be seen by many as a pointless language to learn. I mean Chinese Mandarin and Russian were studied by relatively few western scholars during the communist years in those countries, despite their size and populations.

    When a country turns communist, it is almost like they drop off the map in terms of trade.


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    #64
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,237 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    An expensive mistake I grant you. Should the US, Uk, Ireland and possibly even Australia turn communist, English will be seen by many as a pointless language to learn. I mean Chinese Mandarin and Russian were studied by relatively few western scholars during their communist years, despite thveir size and populations.

    When a country turns communist, it is almost like they drop off the map in terms of trade.
    Come on. Own up.

    You’re not a person. You’re a bunch of bored students sitting around competing to come up with the dumbest post. Loser does the washing up.

    :D


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    #65
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Irish has a better chance than Hebrew had just a few decades ago. Now millions are speaking that language and its growth is exponential. As for English, it`s success was primarily the consequence of capitalism. Should the English speaking countries of the world turn communist, the relevance of English will decline.

    Capitalism will collapse in English speaking countries come the next recession.


    Drivel, absolute drivel ....


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    #66
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    jmayo wrote: »
    Well there are loads of pointless jobs already.

    Like those litter wardens who fail to stop people dumping rubbish at halting sites all over the country. ;)


    Gold ! :D


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    #67
    Collie D
    Registered Users Posts: 11,308 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    An expensive mistake I grant you. Should the US, Uk, Ireland and possibly even Australia turn communist, English will be seen by many as a pointless language to learn. I mean Chinese Mandarin and Russian were studied by relatively few western scholars during the communist years in those countries, despite their size and populations.

    When a country turns communist, it is almost like they drop off the map in terms of trade.

    Now you're just contradicting yourself


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    #68
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,802 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

    The majority are ok with funding it too (hardly a significant expense).

    So long as school kids and not themselves do the actual work of learning it, they can feel good about "de heritage" being kept alive, notionally.
    Translating documents that no one reads and public signage in Google Translate gibberish. We are codding ourselves into thinking it's a living language


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    #69
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Let me get this straight.

    These poor people are fleeing war, hunger, terror.

    They trek across the continent for days/weeks/months in search of a new life.

    They finally land in the fair green island of Ireland and the 1st thing you want to do is force them to learn that dead language and then a lifetime of servitude forcing them to teach others? :rolleyes:

    Irish is not dead. The OP's post is a silly idea and the notion that Irish is dead is too.


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    #70
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,425 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    If ever there was a boards user with the most contradictory user name, realitykeeper is that person!


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    #71
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,421 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    Irish is not dead. The OP's post is a silly idea and the notion that Irish is dead is too.

    You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.


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    #72
    Skatedude
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    So In summary to the OP's post, If we don't learn Irish then we become communists.

    Can we close this thread now?


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    #73
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    Drivel, absolute drivel ....

    Don't knock communism, until youve tried it.:pac:


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    #74
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

    The battle cry of those unable to defend their opinion. Irish is not dead, that is a fact. You can hold the opinion that it is dead, but that opinion is wrong.


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    #75
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,421 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    The battle cry of those unable to defend their opinion. Irish is not dead, that is a fact. You can hold the opinion that it is dead, but that opinion is wrong.

    And you can hold onto your opinion that it is alive and thriving, you can hold that opinion but that opinion is wrong.


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    #76
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    And you can hold onto your opinion that it is alive and thriving, you can hold that opinion but that opinion is wrong.

    I did not claim that Irish is thriving. Putting words in other peoples mouth is also a common tactic of those who can't defend their own opinion. Irish is alive and you are wrong.


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    #77
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,421 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    I did not claim that Irish is thriving. Putting words in other peoples mouth is also a common tactic of those who can't defend their own opinion. Irish is alive and you are wrong.

    Yep you're right sure isn't it used everyday all over the country by the masses :rolleyes:

    It's dead apart from a tiny minority who struggle every year to keep it alive, if it was a pet it would have been put out of its misery years ago.


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    #78
    kingchess
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭kingchess


    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    Yes, you are not correct.

    So say for example non irish people with zero English become proficient in Irish, how will that assist them in gaining employment in say the local factory, shop, hotel or some other business when 99.99% of those business conduct ALL of their day to day business through English?

    I’m guessing you are a Senator in the Seanad because your proposal is right up there wuth some of the hair brained proposals that eminate from that doss house on a regular basis.

    Well, Yu Ming managed to get a job and he seems happy.


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    #79
    All My Stars Aligned
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭All My Stars Aligned


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    I did not claim that Irish is thriving. Putting words in other peoples mouth is also a common tactic of those who can't defend their own opinion. Irish is alive and you are wrong.

    I am genuinely interest in what makes you think so. To my mind for a language to be alive it would need to be spoken by a significant proportion of the population as their primary language or at least fluently. I do not believe this to be the case.

    What would be your measure of a living language?


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    #80
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    Irish is not dead. The OP's post is a silly idea and the notion that Irish is dead is too.

    It's in the ICU at best. I've lived here for over 25 years and I've never heard it spoken in public. It's time to do the decent thing and put it to bed.


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    #81
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Yep you're right sure isn't it used everyday all over the country by the masses :rolleyes:

    It's dead apart from a tiny minority who struggle every year to keep it alive, if it was a pet it would have been put out of its misery years ago.

    In other words not dead. So, perhaps you should not make false statements. Dead language is a category that has specific criteria and Irish does not fulflll them and won't for well over a hundred years, at least.


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    #82
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Berserker wrote: »
    It's in the ICU at best. I've lived here for over 25 years and I've never heard it spoken in public. It's time to do the decent thing and put it to bed.

    How do you know? People could be walking past you in the street chatting away in Irish and you just don't notice. Unless you speak a language you rarely recognse it being spoken in passing. I remember being in a café with a group of non-Irish speaking friends. There was a group of 11 people loudly conversing in Irish right next to us, after 20 mnutes I asked my friends if any of them had noticed the language being used at the next table and not one of them had. I notice other people speaking Irish in public regularly enough. If you have not notced it after livng here for 25 years, then the fault is yours for having your head in the clouds.


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    #83
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    All My Stars Aligned wrote: »
    I am genuinely interest in what makes you think so. To my mind for a language to be alive it would need to be spoken by a significant proportion of the population as their primary language or at least fluently. I do not believe this to be the case.

    What would be your measure of a living language?

    My measure of a living language is the actual measure of a livng language. A language that still has native speakers. That is why Latine is considered to be a dead language, no native speakers. The Irish speaking community continues to produce native speakers and the last natve speaker of Irish won't be born for a long time. Hate to break it to you, but you will be dead long before Irish is.


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    #84
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    My measure of a living language is the actual measure of a livng language. A language that still has native speakers. That is why Latine is considered to be a dead language, no native speakers. The Irish speaking community continues to produce native speakers and the last natve speaker of Irish won't be born for a long time. Hate to break it to you, but you will be dead long before Irish is.

    You measure isn't important because you just pick something that can be applied to Irish, what is the actual definition of a dead language?


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    #85
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    uptherebels wrote: »
    You measure isn't important because you just pick something that can be applied to Irish, what is the actual definition of a dead language?

    That is the actual defnation of a dead language.


    From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinct_language
    An extinct language is a language that no longer has any speakers,[1] especially if the language has no living descendants.[2] In contrast, a dead language is "one that is no longer the native language of any community", even if it is still in use, like Latin.[3] Languages that currently have living native speakers are sometimes called modern languages to contrast them with dead languages, especially in educational contexts.

    Irish is an endagered modern language.


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