An Taisce Matters Thread?

johnmolloy554

Any chance we can start a thread that deals with all An Taisce matters? There's a few posters on here who are members of An Taisce Limerick (see the Twitter feed and you'll know who I mean) and provide a valuable service but they have certain agendas and every thread here is derailed by those advocating those agendas.

dashoonage

We could have a thread but An Taisce have objected to it.

Vanquished

dashoonage wrote: »

We could have a thread but An Taisce have objected to it.

It must have been rubbish so.

Mc Love

dashoonage wrote: »

We could have a thread but An Taisce have objected to it.

Haha very funny

elperello

dashoonage wrote: »

We could have a thread but An Taisce have objected to it.

No harm in starting off with one of the biggest misconceptions about AT, that they can stop things by objecting.

Only a sustainable objection based on planning grounds will have any chance of preventing a development.

The actual decision on a planning permission is made by the local authority not AT. If there is an appeal An Bord Pleanala will make the final decision. After that there is the option of court proceedings on points of law.

So you can have a thread

nim1bdeh38l2cw

Can it be put in the Environment & Infrastructure forum so I won't have the read their nonsense?

panda100

An Taisce have a bad rep in Limerick and I completely understand why. However, they do some really great work also. Their Living Limerick initative is really excellent. Sean Hartigan and Albert Nolan run nature trails and super interesting environmental events pretty much every weekend throughout the city and county. I've been to a few of their nature talks in the city and they are brilliant for kids and adults alike. It's a shame that a few unrepresentative members dilute all their great work.

Stanford

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

Any chance we can start a thread that deals with all An Taisce matters? There's a few posters on here who are members of An Taisce Limerick (see the Twitter feed and you'll know who I mean) and provide a valuable service but they have certain agendas and every thread here is derailed by those advocating those agendas.

What are the "certain agendas" that they allegedly have?

johnmolloy554

Stanford wrote: »

What are the "certain agendas" that they allegedly have?

Footbridge, Rugby Museum, using cars as a means to get from A to B. I'm sure I'm missing a few.

dashoonage

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

Footbridge, Rugby Museum, using cars as a means to get from A to B. I'm sure I'm missing a few.

support of boojum

opposed to the monorail

pigtown

Just to give some context, there are a number of state bodies that are automatically consulted on new planning applications such as Bord Gais, ESB, TII etc, so that any potential issues which are of importance to the wider economy/society etc. can be flagged to the planning authority. An Taisce are also one of these bodies and their entire reason of existing is to 'protect Ireland's natural & built heritage' so of course many of the proposals they are consulted on may be concerning for them.

Yes this means they object to a lot of things and don't have the best reputation among the wider public as a result. All in all though given our record in past developments and damage to our heritage as a country I'd prefer we have a body like An Taisce than not.

elperello

pigtown wrote: »

Just to give some context, there are a number of state bodies that are automatically consulted on new planning applications such as Bord Gais, ESB, TII etc, so that any potential issues which are of importance to the wider economy/society etc. can be flagged to the planning authority. An Taisce are also one of these bodies and their entire reason of existing is to 'protect Ireland's natural & built heritage' so of course many of the proposals they are consulted on may be concerning for them.

Yes this means they object to a lot of things and don't have the best reputation among the wider public as a result. All in all though given our record in past developments and damage to our heritage as a country I'd prefer we have a body like An Taisce than not.

Just to clarify that AT is an NGO and a Registered Charity. They also receive Government and Local Authority funding for projects.

http://www.antaisce.org/

kilburn

An Tasice thread woohoo its Christmas now where do i start hmmmmm...........


Faceless, unelected, wasting tax payers money and delaying progress.

A handful of self important pontificating people who think they know what is best for everybody else in the country.

For God sake what does it matter if the Rugby museum is a floor or two higher than some Georgian buildings, there is plenty of precedent in the City.

Vanquished

kilburn wrote: »

A handful of self important pontificating people who think they know what is best for everybody else in the country.

Oh dear God! The irony!:o

MarkR

To be honest, I had to search, as I wasn't sure what they did.

An Taisce is a charity that works to preserve and protect Ireland's natural and built heritage. We are an independent charitable voice for the environment and for heritage issues. We are not a government body, semi-state or agency. The work of our staff is focused in three areas.

Advocacy: Our Advocacy Unit is dedicated to promoting the conservation of Ireland's nature and biodiversity as well as its built heritage.
Properties: We own a range of heritage properties in trust, including historic buildings and nature reserves.
Education: Our Environmental Education Unit is responsible for developing and operating some of Ireland's most popular and successful environmental programmes and campaigns.
Founded in 1948, we are one of Ireland’s oldest and largest environmental organisations. We are a member of the International National Trusts Organisation (INTO) and the European Environmental Bureau (EEB), Europe's largest federation of environmental organisations with over 140 member organisations who gain their membership from the general public. We are also the Irish member of the Foundation for Environmental Education (FEE), a global organisation of over 70 nations which is recognised as a world leader in education for sustainable development and environmental education.

http://www.antaisce.org/heritage/what-we-do

Talk about all stuff An Taisce. But keep it civil. :-)

kilburn

Vanquished wrote: »

Oh dear God! The irony!:o

Presume that is a cut at me but i am obviously not as witty as you, i don't pontificate here i make my point and listen to everyone else which i may not agree with.

I am not self important either i created jobs to and had employees before the recession when i saw a service people needed and i volunteer in many local charities and organisations.

I campaign to make my local area better for my family and all my neighbors thats not self important thats being community spirited.

An Taisce uses my and other users in this forums Tax money to decide whats best for everyone else big difference so keep your snide remarks to yourself

Thanks !

Vanquished

kilburn wrote: »

Presume that is a cut at me but i am obviously not as witty as you, i don't pontificate here i make my point and listen to everyone else which i may not agree with.

I am not self important either i created jobs and had employees before the recession and i volunteer in many local charities and organisations.

I campaign to make my local area better for my family and all my neighbors thats not self important thats being community spirited.

An Taisce uses my and other users in this forums Tax money to decide whats best for everyone else big difference so keep your snide remarks to yourself

Thanks !

Thanks for the self endorsement. Perhaps you should inform yourself on the work of the likes of An Taisce before making broad baseless, cliched generalisations.

kilburn

Vanquished wrote: »

Thanks for the self endorsement. Perhaps you should inform yourself on the work of the likes of An Taisce before making broad baseless, cliched generalisations.

You accused me of pontificating i have not once i make a point and dont ram my opinion down everyone elses throat in every thread like users in this forum do. I am sure there are many in this forum sick and tired of listening to the An Taisce view on every thread.

Its not a self endorsement just showing that i actually care for and I am involved in the community for its betterment but out there in the public domain rather than behind a faceless unelected body that delay progress

Presume your a member as you are so sensitive to it?

Are you an engineer or Architect?

MarkR

Last warning guys. This is about An Taisce. Not about your feelings about the people who may be in it.

panda100

MarkR wrote: »

Talk about all stuff An Taisce. But keep it civil. :-)

I hope that civility extends to outside this thread as there was a bizzare attempt to doxx me on twitter as a result of writing on this thread.

As I had said previously they do some very good work regarding Limerick nature that no other group is doing imo. It would be great to see their Clean Costs initative extended to river ways so we could have a concerted effort to clean up our river and riverbank.

kilburn

panda100 wrote:

I hope that civility extends to outside this thread as there was a bizzare attempt to doxx me on twitter as a result of writing on this thread.

Some one hassled you on twitter for posting in boards ?

panda100

kilburn wrote: »

Some one hassled you on twitter for posting in boards ?

Just silly stuff that is easily ignored. I think the burritto wars have been replaced with the An Taisce wars on here!

phog

An Taisce remind me of your neighbour's barking dog, it gets annoying after a while.


Sometimes I wonder do they ever enjoy life - a lot of their tweets are just negative stuff. I remember a recent photograph of Limerick (can't remember the exact detail or who originally tweeted it) that I thought was a nice photo of Limerick but their curator's reply was something along the lines of "all I see is urban sprawl"

Miike

I didn't know who this group were 24 hours ago.

...I was a happier man 24 hours ago. What a load of drivel.

Limerick500

What agendas would these be then?

Limerick500

Yes only An Bord Pleanala can make a decision but what you are forgetting is that An Taisce has Prescribed Body status and then didn't get that by accident.

Limerick500

Who would these 'unrepresentative members' be then?

Limerick500

Speaking of tax payers' money, Limerick City and County Council received 11million euros to purchase the 'Project Opera' site from the Department of Housing to provide houses. Not ONE SINGLE RESIDENTIAL UNIT within the proposed opera site. An Taisce raised this in their submission and that LCCC broke the law by not conducting and EIS for the site, the largest development site in the state outside of Dublin. Would you disagree with any of those points? You think Conn Murray and his deputies have the foggiest how to deal with this site within Irish planning law in a transparent manner with OUR TAX PAYERS money. Think how much they have already wasted on the third iteration of a proposal for the site - all those useless reports cost tens of thousands of euros in outside consultancy fees.

Limerick500

Thanks for finally acknowledging the great work that they do instead of sneaky digs. They do a thankless job looking out for natural and built environment in Limerick.

Limerick500

But what if all they saw was urban sprawl? Were they supposed to ignore that and say 'oh lovely pic'

Cookiemunster

^^^^^^
WTF?

Limerick500

Cookiemunster wrote: »

^^^^^^
WTF?

?

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

^^^^^^
WTF?

Someone hasn't figured out how to use the reply button

kilburn

Oh dear

phog

Cookiemunster wrote: »

^^^^^^
WTF?

Obviously they want to increase their post count

kilburn

Out of curiosity anyone know what An Taisces position on the pipeline from the Shannon to Dublin is?

Mc Love

kilburn wrote: »

Out of curiosity anyone know what An Taisces position on the pipeline from the Shannon to Dublin is?

Has planning been submitted for it?

kilburn

Mc Love wrote: »

Has planning been submitted for it?

Not that i am aware of but wondering have they commented on it

NSAman

kilburn wrote: »

Out of curiosity anyone know what An Taisces position on the pipeline from the Shannon to Dublin is?

I'm sure they are against it...;)

Mc Love

NSAman wrote: »

I'm sure they are against it...;)

I'm against it too, whats your point?

keane2097

Not sure how anyone could be in favour of that stupid pipe.

damowill

the only ones in favour of that pipe are those from Dublin and East Leinster. If they thought they saw trouble when irish Water was brought in or the Corrib Gas line, then they aint seen nothing. All hell would break loose if that were given the green light for that pipe line!!

panda100

Mc Love wrote: »

kilburn wrote: »

Out of curiosity anyone know what An Taisces position on the pipeline from the Shannon to Dublin is?

Has planning been submitted for it?

No not yet as far as I'm aware. It's still at pre planning stages and environmental impact report has yet to be released. Can't see it getting getting the go ahead here. There would be huge resistance to it and already is from most council members.

johnmolloy554

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/425549/rare-bats-set-to-delay-limerick-s-180m-project-opera.html

Now that An Taisce have formally objected to the Opera Development and it's a well known fact that they were going to do so, how long in theory can the planning be held up?
It's a Part 8 Application so how quickly does that speed things up?

Cookiemunster

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/425549/rare-bats-set-to-delay-limerick-s-180m-project-opera.html

Now that An Taisce have formally objected to the Opera Development and it's a well known fact that they were going to do so, how long in theory can the planning be held up?
It's a Part 8 Application so how quickly does that speed things up?

It's not part 8 anymore. The couldn't go through with that process as they needed to do an Environmental Impact Assessment report. It was sent directly to ABP in March/April and I think they're due to rule sometime in September.

Because it's already at ABP, this objection won't slow the process down, despite what the Leader are saying. And the bat situation was dealt with in the EIS.

johnmolloy554

How large an organisation is An Taisce Limerick and who runs it? Is it just like minded individuals submitting objections after they sit around for a coffee or is there more substance to it?

damowill

They get ridiculed often by people borne out of frustration. Its understandable in a time where we want everything done yesterday. But have we learned nothing from our past? Pictures of Cruises Hotel often get posted on social media and people comment that they yearn to have it back. but when its gone its gone and with it, a piece of our past and our heritage. What we have instead is a little shopping street that people of Limerick have little love for. Of course when Cruises st was built in 1990, there was a heave of excitement. Didnt last long tho hey!

Our Georgian Quarter is constantly under threat of demolition. And to be replaced by what? You look at old pictures of Patricks st and the Georgian buildings where Arthurs Quay now resides. We knocked those buildings for Arthurs Quay, a sorry excuse of a shopping centre and car park. Most people in Limerick hate Arthurs Quay and for very good reason. Sarsfield House was only built in the 70s i believe. Not a long time ago. We also want to demolish this. Do we know if new builds age well? And to what standard will they be built? Will we be forever demolishing and rebuilding?

Up until recently there were houses inside King Johns Castle! In another time, we could have knocked it to build more houses. Do we relinquish our heritage at the same time? You look at old pictures of tram lines in Dublin, removed in the 50s for the private car. 50 years later we are building a LUAS to the cost of billions.

Of course we need to embrace development but there is room for Old as well as New. Property Developers only think about their pockets and how much they can fill them. The Celtic Tiger era is testament to this. An Taisce may indeed be pedantic and scrutinize everything, but these are only submissions at the end of the day.

johnmolloy554

damowill wrote: »

They get ridiculed often by people borne out of frustration. Its understandable in a time where we want everything done yesterday. But have we learned nothing from our past? Pictures of Cruises Hotel often get posted on social media and people comment that they yearn to have it back. but when its gone its gone and with it, a piece of our past and our heritage. What we have instead is a little shopping street that people of Limerick have little love for. Of course when Cruises st was built in 1990, there was a heave of excitement. Didnt last long tho hey!

Our Georgian Quarter is constantly under threat of demolition. And to be replaced by what? You look at old pictures of Patricks st and the Georgian buildings where Arthurs Quay now resides. We knocked those buildings for Arthurs Quay, a sorry excuse of a shopping centre and car park. Most people in Limerick hate Arthurs Quay and for very good reason. Sarsfield House was only built in the 70s i believe. Not a long time ago. We also want to demolish this. Do we know if new builds age well? And to what standard will they be built? Will we be forever demolishing and rebuilding?

Up until recently there were houses inside King Johns Castle! In another time, we could have knocked it to build more houses. Do we relinquish our heritage at the same time? You look at old pictures of tram lines in Dublin, removed in the 50s for the private car. 50 years later we are building a LUAS to the cost of billions.

Of course we need to embrace development but there is room for New as well as Old. An Taisce may indeed be pedantic and scrutinize everything, but these are only submissions at the end of the day.

I agree with pretty most of what you're saying. The loss of Cannocks, the old Todds (by fire), etc is something the City will never recover from.
I think people are frustrated with some of the submissions from An Taisce in that the Opera one is waffling about bats when for me, they should be stressing the removal of the old horrible AIB on Patrick Street and making the old Town Hall as the centrepiece of the site.
But there are certain parts of the site that need to go. The Cahill May Roberts building is awful and Sarsfield House will not be remembered fondly like Cannocks.

Cookiemunster

damowill wrote: »

They get ridiculed often by people borne out of frustration. Its understandable in a time where we want everything done yesterday. But have we learned nothing from our past? Pictures of Cruises Hotel often get posted on social media and people comment that they yearn to have it back. but when its gone its gone and with it, a piece of our past and our heritage. What we have instead is a little shopping street that people of Limerick have little love for. Of course when Cruises st was built in 1990, there was a heave of excitement. Didnt last long tho hey!

Our Georgian Quarter is constantly under threat of demolition. And to be replaced by what? You look at old pictures of Patricks st and the Georgian buildings where Arthurs Quay now resides. We knocked those buildings for Arthurs Quay, a sorry excuse of a shopping centre and car park. Most people in Limerick hate Arthurs Quay and for very good reason. Sarsfield House was only built in the 70s i believe. Not a long time ago. We also want to demolish this. Do we know if new builds age well? And to what standard will they be built? Will we be forever demolishing and rebuilding?

Up until recently there were houses inside King Johns Castle! In another time, we could have knocked it to build more houses. Do we relinquish our heritage at the same time? You look at old pictures of tram lines in Dublin, removed in the 50s for the private car. 50 years later we are building a LUAS to the cost of billions.

Of course we need to embrace development but there is room for Old as well as New. Property Developers only think about their pockets and how much they can fill them. The Celtic Tiger era is testament to this. An Taisce may indeed be pedantic and scrutinize everything, but these are only submissions at the end of the day.

I'd be inclined to ridicule anyone who compared a 14 storey office block with one of the Ballymun towers saying unsocial behaviour and drug dealing could occur in an office block because it occured in Ballymun. They also say that the tall building is a danger to birds FFS.
They're actually wasting their time on that one seeing as height limits have been removed. ABP recently gave permission to a 22 storey building on Tara Street in Dublin after DCC had refused it saying it was too high.

This plan will keep at a minimum the facades of all the Georgian buildings on the site and will restore the old town hall and repurpose it as the new city Library. The Granary will also be restored and used as offices.

Oh and Sarsfield House hasn't aged well. It's a disgusting eyesore on the riverfront and can't be demolished fast enough.

An Taisces objections in this instance (from what is in the Leader) seem to be objections for no other reason than objecting for the sake of it. Which they've been doing with every project that that has gotten permission in Limerick over the last few years. Even the bat issue is dealt with in the EIS submitted to ABP.

pigtown

Has anyone got a link to the submission rather than the article?

elperello

johnmolloy554 wrote: »

How large an organisation is An Taisce Limerick and who runs it? Is it just like minded individuals submitting objections after they sit around for a coffee or is there more substance to it?

They are on Facebook and Twitter.
Why not give them a shout.