Referendum time again! This time, it's divorce

jimmycrackcorm

UsBus wrote:

Unfortunately it may not drum up the interest in many people if they are not directly affected by it. I hope I'm wrong and people get out & vote to reduce this draconian waiting time. Everyone goes into marriage with the best of intentions but when it goes wrong, people shouldn't be penalised for four years.

SSM only affects a small number of people but it still got the interest.
I'd expect this to pass based on progressive attitudes seen in both that and the abortion referenda.

4 years is a ridiculous and arbitrary number.

Hotblack Desiato

Any sign of a wording yet? I think putting two years into the constitution is a mistake, leave legislation to legislators.

Odhinn

seamus wrote:

Given that the fear element has really been taken out of this, I doubt the usual suspects will make a lot of noise about it. There'll be some, but I'd be surprised if there's any mass movement to try and block this referendum. Half of the them are divorced or otherwise separated anyway. Should be a no brainer tbh.

..

seamus

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Any sign of a wording yet? I think putting two years into the constitution is a mistake, leave legislation to legislators.

Conflicting reports on the news yesterday talking about removing the four years and then later mentioning two years, so I dunno.

I expect they'll just delete the four years reference and put the two years into law. They didn't go with anything convoluted for abortion or SSM, so I don't see why they'd do it again.

Actually, RTE have reported:

Voters will be asked if they wish to remove the four-year minimum living apart period from the Constitution and allow a reduced term to be defined by legislation.

So it looks like there'll be no term in the constitution. Pretty straightforward.

loyatemu

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Any sign of a wording yet? I think putting two years into the constitution is a mistake, leave legislation to legislators.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cabinet-signs-off-on-wording-for-divorce-vote-37955094.html

"Voters will be asked to remove the reference to a minimum 'pause period' from the Constitution and allow it to be dealt with in legislation."

seems straightforward, but I'm sure the usual suspects will emerge to warn of societal collapse. More RTE appearance fees ahead for David Quinn et al.

Hotblack Desiato

Ah jaysus. Please tell me RTE don't pay the likes of him to be on... :eek:

harrylittle

tuxy wrote: »

Until death do us part is part is a vow used in Catholic weddings because that's the churches stance on it.

In a civil service you can use different vows.

Many people want a church wedding but do not have Catholic beliefs so just go along with it anyway.

The Catholic church uses that stance because its one of Gods commandents " Thou shall not commit adultry "

Hotblack Desiato

So, do adulterers summon demons, or is it just the magicians?

Cabaal

Incoming Iona (Lolek Ltd) to represent the "silent majority".

Its getting annoying having to deal with their crap in almost every referendum

Peregrinus

Cabaal wrote: »

Incoming Iona (Lolek Ltd) to represent the "silent majority".

The silent and non-voting majority, if recent referendums are anything to go by.

smacl

Cabaal wrote: »

Incoming Iona (Lolek Ltd) to represent the "silent majority".

Its getting annoying having to deal with their crap in almost every referendum

No harm, I don't think they're a credible voice for anyone that does not follow their anachronistic world view, which is becoming an increasingly small minority. As recent referenda have shown, the moral majority in this country are neither silent nor easily bullied by conservative Catholic dogma. I actually think that so many people find Iona objectionable enough that they'd instinctively vote against them.

Hotblack Desiato

Peregrinus wrote: »

The silent and non-voting majority, if recent referendums are anything to go by.

So silent, invisible and non-intervening, they might as well be god.

Peregrinus

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So silent, invisible and non-intervening, they might as well be god.

Perhaps they are!

Odhinn

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So, do adulterers summon demons, or is it just the magicians?

Don't be silly.





It's obviously the gays.

harrylittle

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So, do adulterers summon demons, or is it just the magicians?

if an adulterer commits a mortal sin they seperate from gods protection .... so they become fair game for all sorts of demons ... much like a buffalo on the african plains becoming seperated from the herd ... roaming close to a pride of hungry lions.

gctest50

harrylittle wrote: »

if an adulterer commits a mortal sin they seperate from gods protection .... so they become fair game for all sorts of demons ... much like a buffalo on the african plains becoming seperated from the herd ... roaming close to a pride of hungry lions.

What is that post rambling about ?

Can't beat a hardworking demon, do more in a day than some rosarybead clutching Catholic anyway

seamus

smacl wrote: »

No harm, I don't think they're a credible voice for anyone that does not follow their anachronistic world view, which is becoming an increasingly small minority. As recent referenda have shown, the moral majority in this country are neither silent nor easily bullied by conservative Catholic dogma. I actually think that so many people find Iona objectionable enough that they'd instinctively vote against them.

https://twitter.com/DavQuinn/status/1113541838022094854

Subtly trying to bring the conversation around to "why marriage is good", no doubt with a future intention of claiming that it needs strong protection from divorce.

Dave getting fairly pilloried on Twitter though, very few positive responses.

Peregrinus

Married people have more sex? Well, who'd have thought!

David's not going to tell you this, I suspect, but studies suggest not only that married people have more sex, but that they have more kinky sex.

Niether of these things are all that surprising, when you think about them.

robindch

Peregrinus wrote: »

Married people have more sex? Well, who'd have thought!

Not only are married people having more sex, they're having more kids as well, with more than six-in-ten births taking place within the bonds of Holy Matrimony:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/nearly-four-in-10-births-outside-marriage-figures-show-1.2667188

Is there a causal link between sex and babies? David needs to know!

smacl

robindch wrote: »

Not only are married people having more sex, they're having more kids as well, with more than six-in-ten births taking place within the bonds of Holy Matrimony:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/nearly-four-in-10-births-outside-marriage-figures-show-1.2667188

Is there a causal link between sex and babies? David needs to know!

Nah, I reckon David follows the Stork school of thought. How could any of that dirty sex nonsense ever be related to beautiful babbies?

Hotblack Desiato

smacl wrote: »

Nah, I reckon David follows the Stork school of thought.

Marlon Brando preferred butter


Now, there's a nice mental image to haunt you for the rest of the day. Last Tango in Merrion Square.

pleas advice

robindch wrote: »

Is there a causal link between sex and babies? David needs to know!

Causal sex? :eek:

realitykeeper

I will not be voting for any of the politicians in the upcoming elections or in the divorce referendum. As a conservative, I cannot in good conscience vote to either ease or maintain divorce because I am against divorce. Really it is an unconstitutional referendum as it assumes every citizen approves of of something that was introduced following a corrupted referendum to introduce divorce some years ago, (when the government spent taxpayers money to sell divorce to the electorate).

Being against divorce, it is not an option for me to vote to either retain or change the kind or divorce available in Ireland. Divorce is a sin because God said people should not get divorced.

smacl

realitykeeper wrote: »

Divorce is a sin because God said people should not get divorced.

If that's your belief, fair enough. Assuming your significant other shares your world view, no one's making you get divorced. Those that don't share your beliefs clearly have other ideas.

UsBus

realitykeeper wrote: »

Divorce is a sin because God said people should not get divorced.

Reality keeper really......??
Maybe yourself and God were lucky enough to not experience a marriage breakdown or an unfaithful or abusive partner.
Divorce is not a sin, it's a resolution to what can be a living nightmare for some. Maybe open your eyes a bit to the realities of this world, not what's written in some magazine several thousand years ago

UsBus

UsBus wrote: »

Reality keeper really......??
Maybe yourself and God were lucky enough to not experience a marriage breakdown or an unfaithful or abusive partner.
Divorce is not a sin,it's a resolution to what can be a living nightmare for some.

They should offer it up to god, or some such BS.

Religious people uncritically following some doctrine can be some of the most horrible people.

Personally I think any adult should be able to divorce as soon as possible.

Cabaal

UsBus wrote: »

Reality keeper really......??
Maybe yourself and God were lucky enough to not experience a marriage breakdown or an unfaithful or abusive partner.
Divorce is not a sin, it's a resolution to what can be a living nightmare for some. Maybe open your eyes a bit to the realities of this world, not what's written in some magazine several thousand years ago

Didn't you know?
If you are being beaten by an abusive partner (man or women) then you have to pray for the abuser. Thats how it works.

You get beaten black and blue in this world, but when you die apparently everything is alright. So until then you better not commit a sin and look for a divorce.

Do I have that right realitykeeper?

One eyed Jack

realitykeeper wrote: »

I will not be voting for any of the politicians in the upcoming elections or in the divorce referendum. As a conservative, I cannot in good conscience vote to either ease or maintain divorce because I am against divorce.

Of course you can. You appear to be making excuses for your lack of fortitude in being able to stand behind your decision. Own that. That’s entirely your responsibility, nothing to do with either being conservative or religious.

Really it is an unconstitutional referendum as it assumes every citizen approves of of something that was introduced following a corrupted referendum to introduce divorce some years ago, (when the government spent taxpayers money to sell divorce to the electorate).

If you’re going to suggest a referendum is unconstitutional, the least you could do is point to the part of the Constitution you believe the referendum is in conflict with. Otherwise your reasoning so far is just sounding like “Because I (not God), because I say so”.

Being against divorce, it is not an option for me to vote to either retain or change the kind or divorce available in Ireland. Divorce is a sin because God said people should not get divorced.

Depends upon which denomination of which religion you’re referring to. Divorce for instance isn’t regarded as a sin by the Catholic Church, and God certainly wasn’t opposed to the idea, so again it appears as though “divorce is a sin because God said people should not get divorced” is just more of your own “Because I (not God) said so”.

Don’t blame God, or religion or Conservatism for your own reluctance and lack of fortitude to argue what appears to be nothing more than your own spitefulness. That’s kind of spineless waffle gives all three a bad name.

Cabaal

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Don’t blame God, or religion or Conservatism for your own reluctance and lack of fortitude to argue what appears to be nothing more than your own spitefulness. That’s kind of spineless waffle gives all three a bad name.

Some people prefer to use god in this manner, it means they don't have to think as much and make their own decisions. No need to even attempt to logically think about something and how it effects people they meet day to day in their lives.

Wanderer78

realitykeeper wrote:

Being against divorce, it is not an option for me to vote to either retain or change the kind or divorce available in Ireland. Divorce is a sin because God said people should not get divorced.

Your god says lots of unusual things, thankfully I don't believe in him/her/it