Insuring electric converted classic car

s_o_s

Has anyone done an electric conversion on a classic car (in my case I'm considering an old Lancia)? Are there any good savings to be had on insuring such a car, or does it tend to cost the same as all other classic cars? If deals are to be found, which insurance companies did you find to be good?

kev1.3s

s_o_s wrote: »

Has anyone done an electric conversion on a classic car (in my case I'm considering an old Lancia)? Are there any good savings to be had on insuring such a car, or does it tend to cost the same as all other classic cars? If deals are to be found, which insurance companies did you find to be good?

I'd actually imagine it would cost more.
What lancia are you going to convert?

SmartinMartin

This is the maddest thread I've seen in a while. I'll follow with great interest.

Effects

I thought classics were already cheap to insure, am I wrong?

antodeco

Electric vehicle doesn't change the cost of insurance. As mentioned, it will probably be more expensive, but classics are cheap enough anyway. I assume you've looked into the full EV conversion? I was going to do it a few years ago, but it can get very expensive very quickly and without a guarantee of it working in a few years. I'd love to do it however!

Effects

These guys do some really nice work.

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/

Although I think if you can afford to make a classic electric then the cost of insurance isn't something you think about.

Max Headroom

I'm more concerned with fitting a decent heater that will clear the windscreen tbh.....:D

s_o_s

kev1.3s, it's a 1973 Lancia Fulvia coupe. Lovely little thing.

Effects, those are the guys I'm talking to about it! They really seem to know what they're doing. Classics are cheap to insure, but I'm wondering if doing the conversion changes that for any reason - it's not really the same car after the conversion.

galwaytt

s_o_s wrote: »

kev1.3s, it's a 1973 Lancia Fulvia coupe. Lovely little thing.

Effects, those are the guys I'm talking to about it! They really seem to know what they're doing. Classics are cheap to insure, but I'm wondering if doing the conversion changes that for any reason - it's not really the same car after the conversion.

To convert a Fulvia to ev would be, imho, a travesty. My 0.02.

s_o_s

galwaytt wrote: »

To convert a Fulvia to ev would be, imho, a travesty. My 0.02.

Fair point :-) It's a great little machine, but I've decided to not drive fossil fuel cars again, and the idea of having an utterly unique Fulvia really appeals to me.

Max Headroom

I'm not buying into this clean energy atm ....maybe if i have to go electric i will , but i'll be probably long gone by then..V8 rule...:P

Seweryn

s_o_s wrote: »

Fair point :-) It's a great little machine, but I've decided to not drive fossil fuel cars again, and the idea of having an utterly unique Fulvia really appeals to me.

Great idea. However no matter how we change the drive train we will still use fossil fuels to power our vehicles regardless of what's under the bonnet.

I would worry about getting the car ready for the conversion and then getting it converted properly. Apart from huge cost it will be quite labour intensive to get it done right. Good luck with it anyway .

Isambard

what on earth would be the point? If you want an EV , buy an EV. If you want a classic, buy a classic.
Converting one to the other would be destroying the whole point of having a classic

Water John

As Robert Kennedy said 'Some look and ask why others look and say why not'.

Heard of a Cork GP with one, haven't seen it.

kev1.3s

s_o_s wrote: »

kev1.3s, it's a 1973 Lancia Fulvia coupe. Lovely little thing.

Effects, those are the guys I'm talking to about it! They really seem to know what they're doing. Classics are cheap to insure, but I'm wondering if doing the conversion changes that for any reason - it's not really the same car after the conversion.

I have a fulvia coupe and the little V4 is a cracker dont think it be all that bothered with it without the engine tbh.

kyote00

Hard to see how it would be legal to drive at all - essentially a home made car - depending on the donor car you would need major brakes, suspensions upgrades ?
Don't forget the battery packs have thermal and charging control to prevent fires....

Battery packs are heavy so need careful thought on placement ...

I guess its a bit like dropping a 'v8' into 60 fords - there are lots of them about .... but how do you answer the insurance questions about any non standard mods ?


Anyway, 'funny' video about a classic project here....
https://hackaday.com/2018/12/03/fail-of-the-week-how-not-to-electric-vehicle/

s_o_s

Seweryn wrote: »

Great idea. However no matter how we change the drive train we will still use fossil fuels to power our vehicles regardless of what's under the bonnet.....

To be accurate, a power station converts far, far more fuel to energy than a car's combustion engine, so an electric car is still much cleaner than any petrol or diesel car, even if the power comes from coal or peat. But I'm more focused on the driving experience than anything else.

Effects

Seweryn wrote: »

Great idea. However no matter how we change the drive train we will still use fossil fuels to power our vehicles regardless of what's under the bonnet.

Plenty of people use PV panels to charge their cars. And a lot of the electricity produced on the grid is renewable. That's in opposition to ICE cars that use 100% fossil fuels.

Effects

Isambard wrote: »

what on earth would be the point? If you want an EV , buy an EV. If you want a classic, buy a classic.
Converting one to the other would be destroying the whole point of having a classic

The point is you can have both.

irshmerc

Effects wrote: »

These guys do some really nice work.

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/

Although I think if you can afford to make a classic electric then the cost of insurance isn't something you think about.

These fellas have some nice motors alright, i was foolish enough to ask for a quote for a bmw 2002, 40k upwards, i took it no further.


Good luck

unkel

Seweryn wrote: »

However no matter how we change the drive train we will still use fossil fuels to power our vehicles

Less and less so. Electric cars are typically charged at night (at the cheap 8c/kWh night rate) and the past few weeks about 50% of all electricity produced at night in Ireland was renewable (wind)

This percentage will keep increasing and should reach 100% within a decade or so. Day or night.

Seweryn

s_o_s wrote: »

To be accurate, a power station converts far, far more fuel to energy than a car's combustion engine, so an electric car is still much cleaner than any petrol or diesel car, even if the power comes from coal or peat. But I'm more focused on the driving experience than anything else.

No, that is not true. The efficiency of generating power in a power plant is comparable with efficiency of a Diesel engine. Then you need to ad on the loses with transforming electricity and transporting it through the grid, etc.

Let's focus on driving experience so. I love electric engines and electric drives for a few reasons. Electric motors are the most suitable type of engines to move a car. They don't need gearboxes, have about one moving part so are very simple and convert about 90% of electricity into motion with excellent torque characteristics. They are also very quiet.

Good luck with the project.

Seweryn

Effects wrote: »

Plenty of people use PV panels to charge their cars. And a lot of the electricity produced on the grid is renewable. That's in opposition to ICE cars that use 100% fossil fuels.

Sorry, but there is no such thing as "renewable energy". Solar panels and wind mills only exist and will exist because we use fossil fuels to power our industrial world.

Seweryn

unkel wrote: »

Less and less so. Electric cars are typically charged at night (at the cheap 8c/kWh night rate) and the past few weeks about 50% of all electricity produced at night in Ireland was renewable (wind)

This percentage will keep increasing and should reach 100% within a decade or so. Day or night.

. Not sure who is generating the news you have been reading... :pac:

Wind mills do not generate net energy and are pure scam, wake up folks.

Dades

Isambard wrote: »

what on earth would be the point? If you want an EV , buy an EV. If you want a classic, buy a classic.
Converting one to the other would be destroying the whole point of having a classic

Effects wrote: »

The point is you can have both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJLdzRJdKrs

Not buying that!

The expression "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck" is fitting here.

Sure it looks like a duck, but it doesn't really swim like a duck and it sure as hell doesn't quack like a duck.
A classic body is only one part of what make a car classic. That 911 has been lobotomised.

I'm not against the idea of throwing an electric motor into a classic body. To each their own, just not for me. I'd think it more fitting in classics where the powerplant itself wasn't a key part of what makes that car desirable. Something like a 2CV or a Karman Ghia.

Making an EV out of a Ferrari 308, or, I have to say it, a Lancia Fulvia - makes me a little sad. The soul dies when the car is silenced.

Teddy Daniels

Effects wrote: »

Plenty of people use PV panels to charge their cars. And a lot of the electricity produced on the grid is renewable. That's in opposition to ICE cars that use 100% fossil fuels.

I thought that there was more and more eoth in my petrol every year ?

Seweryn

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

I thought that there was more and more eoth in my petrol every year ?

That's even worse TBH. It takes more energy (from fossil fuels) to produce that stuff than we get out of it when we finally burn it in our engines.

kev1.3s

It goes without saying that battery power is far more efficient than petrol and getting better every day but the real reason I like classic cars is for the sights, sounds and smells as well as a little bit of tinkering.
I've no problem with electric power in cars but purely for its practical side, if I could afford one I'd have a tesla for the week and use the lancia at the weekend.

s_o_s

kev1.3s wrote: »

It goes without saying that battery power is far more efficient than petrol and getting better every day but the real reason I like classic cars is for the sights, sounds and smells as well as a little bit of tinkering.
I've no problem with electric power in cars but purely for its practical side, if I could afford one I'd have a tesla for the week and use the lancia at the weekend.

That's the plan - a Model X for the family, the Lancia for me. However the tinkering side of things is not what I enjoy (my father does, he has about 20 classic Lancia's that he's rebuilt himself over the years), so if I can get most of the fun but without needing to find a new part every few months I'll be plenty happy

Max Headroom

Until they produce a car, that in its construction had zero effect on the environment i'll stay on the (electric) fence....cant make an omlette etc...:P

Seweryn

Max Headroom wrote: »

Until they produce a car, that in its construction had zero effect on the environment i'll stay on the (electric) fence....cant make an omlette etc...:P

Touché subject there .

The process of making just batteries for a Tesla vehicle has the same impact on environment as about 7 years of driving a petrol engined car (we are talking about batteries only). Then after about 7 or so years the batteries are getting weaker by loosing their capacity and may need to be replaced. And... how do we recycle the old batteries (never mind making new ones)?

Obviously nobody will tell you that, they just wrap it all in green paper and sell to the masses.

kyote00

This would .be a good project to start with .....:cool:




https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/range-master-milk-float-for-sale/20286512

Dades

Pat Mustard says don't drop below 4 mph! :eek:

Max Headroom

Seweryn wrote: »

Touché subject there .

The process of making just batteries for a Tesla vehicle has the same impact on environment as about 7 years of driving a petrol engined car (we are talking about batteries only). Then after about 7 or so years the batteries are getting weaker by loosing their capacity and may need to be replaced. And... how do we recycle the old batteries (never mind making new ones)?

Obviously nobody will tell you that, they just wrap it all in green paper and sell to the masses.

..then theres the tyres, all the various plastic bits, the energy used during the assembly etc etc...

Horse and cart is the future...

Seweryn

Max Headroom wrote: »

..then theres the tyres, all the various plastic bits, the energy used during the assembly etc etc...

Horse and cart is the future...

If we care about the environment then yes.

Or if we "have to" drive then the cleaner vehicle is almost always the car we currently own.

s_o_s

Seweryn wrote: »

Touché subject there .

The process of making just batteries for a Tesla vehicle has the same impact on environment as about 7 years of driving a petrol engined car (we are talking about batteries only). Then after about 7 or so years the batteries are getting weaker by loosing their capacity and may need to be replaced. And... how do we recycle the old batteries (never mind making new ones)?

Obviously nobody will tell you that, they just wrap it all in green paper and sell to the masses.

These arguments always seem to leave out the true cost of ICE cars. The cost of oil exploration, extraction, transport, oil spills, car fires/deaths (far more than in electric cars), poisonous water from fracking.... the list goes on. Tesla batteries after 300k miles still have over 80% of the original range and should last much longer.

Just get one if you can, enjoy the blasting away from the lights, great handling and top of the range tech, and feel free to feel good about the environment as an added bonus.

Seweryn

s_o_s wrote: »

These arguments always seem to leave out the true cost of ICE cars. The cost of oil exploration, extraction, transport, oil spills, car fires/deaths (far more than in electric cars), poisonous water from fracking.... the list goes on. Tesla batteries after 300k miles still have over 80% of the original range and should last much longer.

Sure, nobody is arguing about that. But all the above (plus more) factors are associated with electric cars also. You can't manufacture a battery (or anything) without oil.

s_o_s wrote: »

Just get one if you can, enjoy the blasting away from the lights, great handling and top of the range tech, and feel free to feel good about the environment...

I agree with the first bit, but as you know the last thing in the above sentence is nonsense.

Max Headroom

Seweryn wrote: »

I agree with the first bit, but as you know the last thing in the above sentence is nonsense.

People who can afford one cares more about image and smugness than the environment imo....

Is that 7 year statement a fact..?...im shocked at that...

Seweryn

Max Headroom wrote: »

People who can afford one cares more about image and smugness than the environment imo...

Sure, but they do that under an ambarella of (media created) good feeling as you can read posts like these almost everywhere.

Max Headroom wrote: »

Is that 7 year statement a fact..?...im shocked at that...

For Tesla car batteries yes, it is a fact, because they are powerful and "resourceful" batteries. However, making a battery pack for a small electric car (which is not that "cool" to pseudo environmentalists) would get away with about 3 years equivalent of petrol car usage (average car and average use of course).

Max Headroom

Seweryn wrote: »

. For Tesla car batteries yes, it is a fact, because they are powerful and "resourceful" batteries. However, making a battery pack for a small electric car (which is not that "cool" to pseudo environmentalists) would get away with about 3 years equivalent of petrol car usage (average car and average use of course).

..:eek:...thats not very "friendly" then, is it...

Seweryn

Max Headroom wrote: »

..:eek:...thats not very "friendly" then, is it...

Well, no... but it never has been. The facts are the facts, but you will never be told that in official news.

I do like the idea of an electric drive though, especially when converting an internal combustion engined car with a faulty engine and using salvaged parts from a crashed EV. That would be sensible enough and most friendly.

Dades

With respect to the OP, putting an electric motor in an oil guzzling classic is probably a net benefit to the environment (to feel smug about, if one wishes!)

EV tech such as batteries will continue to get better and more efficient, as will generating electricity from renewables. A point will come where there is no argument. I don't think we're there yet though.

I don't believe buying a giant Tesla and running it for 10 years will be a net benefit over just running whatever car you already have.

Seweryn

Dades wrote: »

With respect to the OP, putting an electric motor in an oil guzzling classic is probably a net benefit to the environment (to feel smug about, if one wishes!).

If using a brand new set of batteries? No, it definitely is not beneficial to the environment. It would be cleaner to use the classic car with its own engine, especially with the mileage that he is going to cover.

On the other hand it is fun and great sense of achievement .

Dades wrote: »

EV tech such as batteries will continue to get better and more efficient, as will generating electricity from renewables. A point will come where there is no argument. I don't think we're there yet though.

Batteries will continue to get better technically for sure but not better for the environment. Unless we find a way of making them from sand using sea water .

Dades wrote: »

I don't believe buying a giant Tesla and running it for 10 years will be a net benefit over just running whatever car you already have.

That is for sure. Buying any new car (over your existing one), not necessarily made by Tesla means your old car needs to be scrapped using a lot of energy and resources and a new car manufactured. Making a new ICE car means spending energy of approximate equivalent value of about 40 - 50 barrels of oil. This is enormous amount of resources and no matter how inefficient is your existing car it is overall more environmentally friendly than replacing it with a new vehicle.

Dades

Seweryn wrote: »

Batteries will continue to get better technically for sure but not better for the environment. Unless we find a way of making them from sand using sea water

Maybe sand and sea water is a stretch but we're at a point where green tech is profitable now the transport world has seen a viable alternative to Big Oil. Innovation follows $$$ so we're now on an inevitable trajectory towards electric powered transportation.

Stuff needs to be, and will be invented. Cold fusion here we come!

Seweryn

Dades wrote: »

Maybe sand and sea water is a stretch but we're at a point where green tech is profitable now the transport world has seen a viable alternative to Big Oil. Innovation follows $$$ so we're now on an inevitable trajectory towards electric powered transportation.

Stuff needs to be, and will be invented. Cold fusion here we come!

That is very optimistic . But hey, we can dream, it costs nothing .

The so called green tech is only "profitable" because of the subsidiaries, no other reason. If that is removed we are back to coal as Germany are going towards now.
The green tech (i.e. wind mills) generates no net energy or almost none at very best case scenarios, remember that.

There are no alternative fuels to heavy transportation (trucks, tractors, ships, planes...) which drives our life as we know. Innovation means nothing without (cheap and easily available) energy, and that energy is getting scarce and will be a major challenge in very near future.

Max Headroom

:eek:..depressing reading if yer a tree hugger.....and thats just the usa

LTL shippers account for around 13.6 percent of America's trucking sector. Estimates of 15.5 million trucks operate in the U.S.. Of this figure 2 million are tractor trailers. It is an estimated over 3.5 million truck drivers in the U.S. Of that one in nine are independent, a majority of which are owner operators

MrCostington

Totally agree re the issue of CO2 created in building an EV, much better to keep old cars on the road, if the insurance industry would allow it of course.

Anyway, not sure if the Wheeler Dealars Maserati Bi Turbo conversion was mentioned:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5htfsj

Sorry could not find the full show on YT

unkel

Max Headroom wrote: »

It is an estimated over 3.5 million truck drivers in the U.S.

And in 20-30 years time there will be none! :eek:

Seweryn

MrCostington wrote: »

Totally agree re the issue of CO2 created in building an EV, much better to keep old cars on the road, if the insurance industry would allow it of course.

Anyway, not sure if the Wheeler Dealars Maserati Bi Turbo conversion was mentioned:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5htfsj

Sorry could not find the full show on YT

Very interesting. I watched that a few months ago. This is only one of examples what can be done. In the US these conversions are a lot more popular than here. The Volkswagen Type 1, Karmann Ghia, Porsche 914 are often being converted as well as Hondas (Civics), BMW 3-series, etc.

Max Headroom

unkel wrote: »

And in 20-30 years time there will be none! :eek:

How will we get our Mustang and Camaro big bore kits.........:(

BTW...i'm looking for some plutonium for the oul flux capacitor if anyone knows of any....she's gettin low...:P

Seweryn

Max Headroom wrote: »

How will we get our Mustang and Camaro big bore kits.........:(

That should be the least of our worries .

Interestingly, in countries like the US for each calorie of food they consume 10 calories of of fossil fuel energy are put into the system to grow that food, process it, pack it, transport it, etc.

Even here if you go to a supermarket you will find apples and potatoes from... Chile and New Zealand (I guess they may have Irish or German potatoes in their stores). That's one of these "little" things that are wrong with the system.