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What does true equality of opportunity look like?
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There was so much text in your post that I would have to write an essay to respond to it all :P so this is what I want to focus on. You notice that in women. You also noticed it in yourself but you had your mother who gave you the confidence to pursue your career, if you chose. So you didn't need the government to come in with a gender quota. You got the support you needed from your personal life to help you decide how you wanted to pursue your professional life.
You make a fair point that I did dump a lot of text in just one post, so I’ll try to do better with this one
It wasn’t actually my mother who gave me the confidence in myself to pursue a career in IT. At the time she was actually quite opposed to the idea and cared more about fostering an interest in the Arts, something which to be fair to her does stand to me to this day, but when I suggested to her 30 years ago that computers would be the paper and pencil of tomorrow, I don’t think I’ve ever seen her laugh as hard since :pac: I’m dyslexic so paper and pencil were, and still are, problematic, and of course this was also one of the fundamental reasons for my lack of confidence in my ability to become a teacher. On Scratch Saturday (I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember the muppet with a toilet brush for hair? Not Andy Ruane - Pajo?) when I had to do a piece to camera about what I wanted to be when I grew up, “I want to be a maths teacher when I grow up”, didn’t go down well, and I was told I could say I want to be a footballer. I had the confidence to say “I don’t want to be a footballer though!”. I was an odd combination of a very dull and difficult child :pac:
I actually got the support to pursue my education from a social worker who was given my case when I moved out of home at 16 and moved into a flat while still attending secondary school and working part-time. I don’t recommend it to anyone as it was incredibly difficult, and had it not been for the social worker who saw something in me I didn’t see in myself at the time, I would not have pursued the career I did. I knew what I wanted to do, I just didn’t know how to do it, and had it not been for the social worker creating those opportunities and opening doors for me and encouraging me to go for things and supporting me, I certainly wouldn’t have had the opportunities or the motivation to do it on my own.
I personally didn’t need the Government to come in with a gender quota, and I think their current efforts to address imbalances in quotas in employment opportunities afforded to both men and women, amount to nothing more than tokenism. I feel that’s the essential difference between the two things you’re missing - Government tokenism is a result, or an outcome, of existing gender quotas which favoured opportunities in certain areas of employment historically based upon a persons sex.Business is not about empowering people or teaching people assertiveness skills. Business is about making money. If women want to be CEO's then the onus is on them to develop these skills and put in the hours. If you want to get ahead in life, you have to believe in yourself.
If someone, man or woman, lacks the confidence in themselves, then why should they be given a position of responsibility just to fill a gender quota? What shareholder wants someone running their company who is afraid of how others perceive them?
It depends upon whether or not you want your business to be successful - a successful business from my point of view at least, is one that actually does empower people, and encourages people to be assertive. Those two things alone generate far more in revenue than businesses in which the goal is simply to make as much money as possible. As I pointed out to eddy earlier in the thread - diversity is good for any businesses bottom line, and this is backed up by plenty of research involving some of the worlds most financially successful companies. I do agree with you that if you want to get ahead in life, it’s important to believe in yourself. What is far more influential in your success however, will be the number of people who believe in you and are willing to take a chance on you and give you the opportunity to show them that they won’t regret having taken a risk in believing in you. Richard Branson is a good example of that philosophy.
You ask the question if someone lacks confidence in themselves then why should they be given a position of responsibility just to fill a gender quota. It’s precisely because people who lack confidence in themselves are in positions of responsibility that they’re now getting their knickers in a bunch when gender quotas are being touted as a way to address historical gender quotas which worked in their favour. They’re worried they may be toppled from their positions by someone who is as capable as they are, but has never had the opportunities that they have had. Shareholders generally couldn’t give a shiny shìte about who’s running a company as opposed to how they’re running a company that those shareholders are choosing to invest in. Both Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg are, or were at least, notoriously insecure in themselves, and both made their fortunes and fortunes for their shareholders by empowering people and giving people the opportunities to assert themselves - hard to find anyone who isn’t glued to Facebook on their iPhones these days, precisely because they too are notoriously insecure and obsessed with how they are perceived by other people :pac:In this day and age, there are numerous assertiveness courses. It is up to each person to decide what they want and then they have to self evaluate if they have the skills necessary to succeed. There is always going to be a level of networking. That's standard for any job. It's not just what you know, it's who you know. If I need to hire a tradesman, I'll always go with recommendations from friends, rather that risk hiring a cowboy.
Honestly, if you needed work done on your house, would you pick someone at random in the interest of fairness, or would you go with someone you could check out? That's why for even a basic minimum wage job you have to be able to provide references.
The nature of employment is changing, and traditional attitudes towards employment are becoming obsolete as they are no longer making money like they used to. That’s precisely why there is an upsurge in all this assertiveness training and so on - there was simply no need for it before as people “accepted their lot in life” so to speak. They don’t any more, and that’s why we see more and more young women demanding more of themselves, and demanding more of potential employers, because they’re beginning to realise that actually they don’t have to settle for what was traditionally regarded as “women’s work”.
It’s funny though you should ask me about needing work done on my house. I don’t own a house, I rent an apartment, and as it happens I do need work done on it. I don’t go with recommendations from friends because they generally tend to recommend a friend of a friend who it turns out is a cowboy masquerading as a professional to people who generally don’t know any better. I went on tradesman.ie and there isn’t a tradesman to be got before Christmas. As it turns out, the estate agent who just happens to be a woman, is far more resourceful when it comes to this sort of thing than I am, so I gave her the responsibility and it turns out she was able to deliver on her promises. Now whether the tradespeople she hires are actually any good or not is something I’ll have to get back to you on after Christmas. I haven’t seen their references, but I trust my estate agent knows what she’s doing. What I can tell you already is that I’m certainly glad I’m not paying for their services as they’re quoting considerably more than just minimum wage for labour alone :pac:
EDIT: I really didn’t do any better there at all, did I?
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The only overwhelming privilege in most western countries is your parents bank account balance. Your skin colour and genitalia mean **** all if daddy is loaded
Rich women love this gender equality nonsense, suddenly they can claim they're at the bottom of the ladder instead of the top AND be given a leg up over their male peers
Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.
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Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »That’s an insane bizzarro world you live in. Teachers earn a middle class salary, it’s a secure government job, and women dominate primary school teaching.
Hmm, there’s a lot more to it than that though. While it’s true that qualified teachers who can get permanent positions after they have been probated are on the ladder to potentially earning a middle class salary (can we agree that a middle class salary is €55k? Teachers payscales for reference), the fact is that the vast majority of newly qualified teachers are unable to secure a post in a school and end up taking minimum wage jobs to make ends meet, or working piecemeal hours across as many as three different schools due to teaching shortages. It’s true that women dominate primary school teaching, which is why thanks to recent tokenism efforts - men applying are far more in demand and more likely to be hired than women, purely on the basis of the assumption that boys need male role models. What boys need are role models who inspire them to want to learn and take an interest in their own education. It’s not much good having a male teacher who isn’t capable of much more than scratching their arse who has no interest in educating children. I had a few of those in an all-boys secondary school, which were fortunately for us at least balanced out by female teachers who were passionate about education in spite of the pay being peanuts. Upon her retirement, I would hardly suggest my mother is living the high life on her Government pension.Some get there by stomping over others. Why the concern with the boardroom, anyway? How likely is an inner city male to get to a boardroom.
Which is precisely the kind of behaviour that is stamped out when a workforce is more diverse, and the more diverse a workforce is, the more checks and balances are naturally in place to prevent people from stomping on other people who they imagine themselves to be superior to. Why the concern with the boardroom? Representation. It’s not simply a question of money, it’s also about people in positions of power and influence who represent role models for young people. Remember when you were a child and you’d tie a tea towel around your neck and jump off the back of an armchair thinking you could fly? Superman was responsible for a lot of childhood injuries back then, but he was also responsible for inspiring generations of young people, as of course was Wonder Woman for young women! New generations of young people are being inspired and influenced by Black Panther. Can’t say I could really relate to it myself, I thought the movie was terrible, but it’s what the movie represents for that black inner city male who might just be inspired to want more from their life than following their fathers and their brothers into a life of crime and anti-social behaviour.
The boardroom (or the C-suite as it’s becoming more commonly known) is the ultimate representation of success in life - a seat on the board in a successful company represents power, authority and commands a great degree of respect. Getting there, of course, is the hard part. Harder again if you’re a male from the inner city, but the days of breaking people’s balls and offering them meagre rewards for their labour are fast becoming a thing of the past, as the path to the C-suite has changed significantly over the last 20 years (article from 2011) -
Going forward, C-level executives will not simply manage their own business areas; they will be active members of the firm’s senior leadership who advise the CEO on key decisions. As one executive recruiter put it, “The C-level person today needs to be more team-oriented, capable of multitasking continuously and leading without rank, and able to resist stress and make sure that his subordinates do not burn out. And he needs to do all of this with a big smile in an open plan office. In other words, we’re looking at a whole new breed of top executive.”
The New Path To the C-SuiteIt’s exact proportional to the number of women doing computer science and the equivalent, or higher in some countries.
While that’s true, I’m glad computer science isn’t the only path to a successful career in IT any more. Computer science qualifications are generally only useful if your career aspirations begin and end with being a code monkey in a cubicle for the rest of your career. I should know, I have one, and while it was useful in getting a foot in the door 20 years ago, I wouldn’t rely on it on it’s own to secure a position in an IT company nowadays as they’re being handed out like tissue paper. I look for more in any candidates nowadays than just whether or not they possess an IT qualification. It may well be their qualifications in an Arts related field which makes them an invaluable asset to a progressive company operating in a modern economy where often nowadays it’s not just what you know, but it’s whether or not you fit in with the company culture. I think that’s the path which will see more diversity in the workplace than in previous generations. I think it will happen naturally without State-sponsored tokenism efforts. Who knows? I may even shed my shirt and tie and start turning up to work in “smart casual” like everyone else in the office...
Probably not though 0 -
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The only overwhelming privilege in most western countries is your parents bank account balance. Your skin colour and genitalia mean **** all if daddy is loaded
Rich women love this gender equality nonsense, suddenly they can claim they're at the bottom of the ladder instead of the top AND be given a leg up over their male peers
Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.
Exactly. A british university professor (grad from Cambridge) accused me of “privilege” in a twitter spat last year. That’s a lad from working class north side of Dublin being accused of privilege by a woman who is part of the English elite, went to a private school and has an “ancestral home” in Kent. Not downtown abbey but a a Georgian pad all the same. (I googled her).
Identity politics is a joy for elites. It ignores class (in Britain it ignores Englishness as well as if “whiteness” was some kind of useful explanation of culture). Not surprising it has caught on.0 -
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One eyed Jack wrote: »Hmm, there’s a lot more to it than that though. While it’s true that qualified teachers who can get permanent positions after they have been probated are on the ladder to potentially earning a middle class salary (can we agree that a middle class salary is €55k? Teachers payscales for reference), the fact is that the vast majority of newly qualified teachers are unable to secure a post in a school and end up taking minimum wage jobs to make ends meet, or working piecemeal hours across as many as three different schools due to teaching shortages. It’s true that women dominate primary school teaching, which is why thanks to recent tokenism efforts - men applying are far more in demand and more likely to be hired than women, purely on the basis of the assumption that boys need male role models. What boys need are role models who inspire them to want to learn and take an interest in their own education. It’s not much good having a male teacher who isn’t capable of much more than scratching their arse who has no interest in educating children. I had a few of those in an all-boys secondary school, which were fortunately for us at least balanced out by female teachers who were passionate about education in spite of the pay being peanuts. Upon her retirement, I would hardly suggest my mother is living the high life on her Government pension.
Most teaching is done by tenured teachers. So the argument that teaching isn't a middle class salary is nonsense. And what bigotry the part on bold is regarding the male teachers ( as well as the claim that the pay is peanuts again).
On, and your mother is living on a pension which is 2-3 times the state pension. Which is what most people get. So she not only earned more during her life, but she gets a better pension than most private sector workers.Which is precisely the kind of behaviour that is stamped out when a workforce is more diverse, and the more diverse a workforce is, the more checks and balances are naturally in place to prevent people from stomping on other people who they imagine themselves to be superior to.
Women who get to the top are as schemeful as the men.Why the concern with the boardroom? Representation. It’s not simply a question of money, it’s also about people in positions of power and influence who represent role models for young people. Remember when you were a child and you’d tie a tea towel around your neck and jump off the back of an armchair thinking you could fly? Superman was responsible for a lot of childhood injuries back then, but he was also responsible for inspiring generations of young people, as of course was Wonder Woman for young women! New generations of young people are being inspired and influenced by Black Panther. Can’t say I could really relate to it myself, I thought the movie was terrible, but it’s what the movie represents for that black inner city male who might just be inspired to want more from their life than following their fathers and their brothers into a life of crime and anti-social behaviour.
Thats a move to fantasy. An, no the posh males on the boardrooms don't act as a role model for working class people. Never did. Somebody on the streets of inner Dublin or Detroit don't aspire to being corporate CEOs, unless they can do via rap or music or sports. A la Dr Dre or Connor McGreggor. Listen to the accents where you work.The boardroom (or the C-suite as it’s becoming more commonly known) is the ultimate representation of success in life - a seat on the board in a successful company represents power, authority and commands a great degree of respect. Getting there, of course, is the hard part. Harder again if you’re a male from the inner city, but the days of breaking people’s balls and offering them meagre rewards for their labour are fast becoming a thing of the past, as the path to the C-suite has changed significantly over the last 20 years (article from 2011) -
You live in a fantasy world. In that world class doesn't exist and the only thing that needs to be fixed now, is gender imbalances. That bold part is unbelievable.Going forward, C-level executives will not simply manage their own business areas; they will be active members of the firm’s senior leadership who advise the CEO on key decisions. As one executive recruiter put it, “The C-level person today needs to be more team-oriented, capable of multitasking continuously and leading without rank, and able to resist stress and make sure that his subordinates do not burn out. And he needs to do all of this with a big smile in an open plan office. In other words, we’re looking at a whole new breed of top executive.”
The 99% of people who don't have a chance of becoming part of the C-Suite ( what a bollocks term by the way) don't care. ( Had to laugh at going forward, too. The ultimate is corporate bollocksology).While that’s true, I’m glad computer science isn’t the only path to a successful career in IT any more. Computer science qualifications are generally only useful if your career aspirations begin and end with being a code monkey in a cubicle for the rest of your career. I should know, I have one, and while it was useful in getting a foot in the door 20 years ago, I wouldn’t rely on it on it’s own to secure a position in an IT company nowadays as they’re being handed out like tissue paper. I look for more in any candidates nowadays than just whether or not they possess an IT qualification. It may well be their qualifications in an Arts related field which makes them an invaluable asset to a progressive company operating in a modern economy where often nowadays it’s not just what you know, but it’s whether or not you fit in with the company culture. I think that’s the path which will see more diversity in the workplace than in previous generations. I think it will happen naturally without State-sponsored tokenism efforts. Who knows? I may even shed my shirt and tie and start turning up to work in “smart casual” like everyone else in the office...
Probably not though
Why would computer science degrees begin and and with being a "code monkey". Why wouldn't people with science degrees become the CEOs or Managers? Shouldn't they, in fact do that? Haven't they in most of the most successful companies done that? Most of the rest of that paragraph is utter guff, Arts degrees are used in "progressive" IT companies to hire people ( outside of design, not really, not without other qualifications - try getting into Google). And by diversity you seem to again mean more women, because IT is diverse in this country. Irish people might well be a minority in many IT companies.
Anyway its clear your worldview is entirely corporate. In that world what matters is corporate strategies to get women in general ( and you in specific I suppose) to the "C-Suite". Theres a mixture here of corporatist jargon and victim feminism which is unappealing, and you don't really seem to know how the other half lives.0 -
Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »Exactly. A british university professor (grad from Cambridge) accused me of “privilege” in a twitter spat last year. That’s a lad from working class north side of Dublin being accused of privilege by a woman who is part of the English elite, went to a private school and has an “ancestral home” in Kent. Not downtown abbey but a a Georgian pad all the same. (I googled her).
Identity politics is a joy for elites. It ignores class (in Britain it ignores Englishness as well as if “whiteness” was some kind of useful explanation of culture). Not surprising it has caught on.
That was your first mistake Franz :pac: Entertaining numpties on Twitter is never likely to lead to a productive outcome for either party. Your post though did remind me of a post I wrote a couple of years back now, and I actually refer to the Athena SWAN program that eddy is referring to in his opening post (I can only wish you good luck with that one ed
) -One eyed Jack wrote: »The simplest answer to that is - it doesn't stop, and it'll never stop, because a lot of this identity politics stuff really doesn't apply in Ireland. It's more applicaple to the UK and the US, and it's being imported here to try and point out "systematic, problematic" issues where really there aren't any. From the Athena SWAN FAQ -
"What do we mean by ‘intersectionality’?
By intersectionality we mean people’s identities and social positions being shaped by several factors at the same time, creating unique experiences and perspectives. These factors include among others, age, disability, gender, race, religion and sexuality.
For example, the experiences of, and outcomes within, higher education will be very different for a Black woman compared to a white woman. In practice, intersectionality is less about bringing two different factors together, eg older people and disabled people; and more about considering the experience of older disabled people, people at the ‘intersection’ of older age and disability."
The above sort of tokenism reminds me of a conference I was at last year regarding the future of education in Ireland, and one of the speakers was from the UK, and she was giving it welly about the lack of women and BME at third level, which was definitely more relevant in a UK context. It's as though she hadn't even thought of her audience and tailored her presentation accordingly, when the room was filled with Casper white Irish women and only a handful of men.
Now granted it was a teacher training college so I didn't expect much variance in the audience, but that didn't stop this woman going on to talk about how there weren't enough women in STEM, and how it was mostly socially awkward men (I'd lost the will to listen at this stage), before she moved on to the topic of 'unconscious bias', without so much as stopping for a breather to spot the irony.0 -
One eyed Jack wrote: »That was your first mistake Franz :pac: Entertaining numpties on Twitter is never likely to lead to a productive outcome for either party. Your post though did remind me of a post I wrote a couple of years back now, and I actually refer to the Athena SWAN program that eddy is referring to in his opening post (I can only wish you good luck with that one ed) -
Yes
People who whine about intersectionality use is to promote their own agenda. Class dominates most other things. Being born rich is better than being born poor, being born middle class is better than being born working class. All the statistics show this. The wage gap between men and women is not anywhere significant as that between the rich and poor or even middle class and poor. In this country its 13%.
Life chances of upper middle and middle class women are far better than working class men. Some parts of Dublin (6w) send 100% of people to university, in other parts its < 20%.
I once in fact did an intersectionality test where I ended more privileged than the Queen. Class wasn't mentioned. She and I had cis privilege, straight privilege, "white" privilege, and some others but I gained on her with my male privilege.0 -
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Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »Most teaching is done by tenured teachers. So the argument that teaching isn't a middle class salary is nonsense. And what bigotry the part on bold is regarding the male teachers ( as well as the claim that the pay is peanuts again).
Well of course most teaching is done by tenured teachers, I already pointed out that newly qualified teachers can’t get permanent positions in schools and are effectively working part-time. I didn’t argue that teaching wasn’t a middle class salary, I asked specifically could we agree that €55k is a middle class salary? I accept that it’s possible we could differ on what we regard as peanuts, but for the work they are actually expected to do, I personally would expect a lot more than €55k to do it. You’re also ignoring the fact that many teachers will be expected to put in hours of unpaid work in the form of extra-curricular activities, which is another reason why men are more in demand nowadays than women - the need for children to do physical activities such as getting involved in sports and so on.On, and your mother is living on a pension which is 2-3 times the state pension. Which is what most people get. So she not only earned more during her life, but she gets a better pension than most private sector workers.
I wouldn’t hazard to guess how true that actually is, but it doesn’t negate my point that she is hardly living what I would call the high life on her Government pension.Women who get to the top are as schemeful as the men.
You accuse me of bigotry, and then go on to imply that not only are men in prominent positions schemeful, but women are too? Again, I’ve yet to meet a schemer at the top who got there solely as a result of scheming, but in my experience, schemers regardless of their gender, generally don’t rise above bottom-feeder level. They’re generally the type of person who will accuse men at the top of scheming their way there, and women at the top of sleeping their way to the top, as opposed to recognising the work they put in to get where they are, that that person isn’t willing to put in, and then claim they could have been a contender.Thats a move to fantasy. An, no the posh males on the boardrooms don't act as a role model for working class people. Never did. Somebody on the streets of inner Dublin or Detroit don't aspire to being corporate CEOs, unless they can do via rap or music or sports. A la Dr Dre or Connor McGreggor. Listen to the accents where you work.
That’s simply not true Franz. I can think of numerous CEO’s who’s accents are associated with inner city socioeconomically deprived areas. They come from working class backgrounds and they often remind anyone who cares to listen of this fact. I’m not talking about “I sold penny apples with me maaaa” Bill Cullen types, they’re generally spoofers, “looking for warriars” me hole, I’m talking about people who are biased against spud munchers like myself who didn’t grow up in the inner city but rather grew up in the arse hole of nowhere and in a way I’m glad I was never exposed to role models like Conor McGregor and Dr. Dre who have no regard for the responsibility they have as role models for young men. I wouldn’t want my own son to turn out anything like Conor McGregor, and I live smack bang in the middle of the inner city so I see exactly the type of behaviour he inspires in young people - behave like a scumbag, and you’ll earn a reputation for yourself as a scumbag. No amount of money will ever buy class, and Conor McGregor is proof of that if ever proof was needed.You live in a fantasy world. In that world class doesn't exist and the only thing that needs to be fixed now, is gender imbalances. That bold part is unbelievable.
I live in the same world as you live in where of course class exists, but it’s not as influential a factor in children’s outcomes as adults as their sex. Social mobility dictates that people can move from the lower socioeconomic classes to the upper socioeconomic classes, but what they can never change is their sex, and that will have different impacts both positive and negative on their lives as they move up the social ladder. The fact that many Irish CEOs are men who come from socioeconomically deprived backgrounds is a testament to the fact that socioeconomic class isn’t so much a barrier to children’s outcomes as adults, as their sex.
A good case in point being I met a woman out the other night and I didn’t recognise her at first, she recognised me (in spite of the fact I was no longer in possession of a six pack, but have gained a few kilos in the intervening 20 years, and she had lost a few kilos). We had both been at the same level in a company where we both worked 20 years previously, and I had progressed much further in my career than she had in hers. The key differentiator between us? She was a single parent at the time, whereas I was not, I had the support to be able to get the promotions I got due to the fact that my wife had chosen to stay at home and raise our child, and now my wife too has chosen to focus on gaining a third level qualification in an area of employment she is interested in, that could prove to be quite lucrative if it works out for her.
I don’t see what’s unbelievable about suggesting that the days of breaking people’s balls and offering them meagre rewards for their labour are fast becoming a thing of the past. They are! In Western society we are becoming more well educated, and people who previously wouldn’t have had access to education, let alone higher education, are now able to avail of opportunities that weren’t available to them before. This increases their expectations of their value to potential employers, and employers are beginning to recognise that in order to attract top talent - they need to offer top renumeration packages, or better than their competitors anyway at least.
I don’t expect Government will recognise that reality any time soon though, as long as we still elect scheming nest featherers who are more interested in looking after themselves and their own, and so we will inevitably have to put up with the introduction of programs like the Athena SWAN program which for all intents and purposes are nothing more than a vehicle to keep a small number of people in some very well paying jobs. In reality they will do little to nothing to address the issues they claim to want to address, and as has been pointed out already by eddy - the program is hardly even out of the starting blocks before they’re arguing like children over who should be leader, each one seeing themselves as the bigger victim of some perceived social injustice. It’s all academic anyway, thankfully :pac:The 99% of people who don't have a chance of becoming part of the C-Suite ( what a bollocks term by the way) don't care. ( Had to laugh at going forward, too. The ultimate is corporate bollocksology).
They clearly do care though, as demonstrated by the fact that we’re even having this conversation, never mind the fact that the boardroom is no longer perceived to be the preserve of stuffy starched collar types, but we have the likes of CEOs like Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, Elon Musk, Larry Page and Sergey Brin - hipster types who generally give me a pain in my face, but there’s no denying their appeal to millennials.
In fairness to the use of terms like C-suite’ and ‘going forward’ in that article - generally in Ireland anyone using the terms should be taken out back and shot with balls of their own shìte, but the article is about 10 years old and sourced from the US, did you really expect that there wouldn’t be cultural differences in the language used? That kind of language appeals to a small minority of people, most people would be unlikely to use the terms outside of the boardroom.Why would computer science degrees begin and and with being a "code monkey". Why wouldn't people with science degrees become the CEOs or Managers? Shouldn't they, in fact do that? Haven't they in most of the most successful companies done that? Most of the rest of that paragraph is utter guff, Arts degrees are used in "progressive" IT companies to hire people ( outside of design, not really, not without other qualifications - try getting into Google). And by diversity you seem to again mean more women, because IT is diverse in this country. Irish people might well be a minority in many IT companies.
People with computer science degrees alone, generally do begin and end as code monkeys. In order to become CEOs, they have to have a lot more to offer than simply a degree in computer science. I also didn’t say that Arts degrees are used to hire people, I said it may well be a persons Arts degree makes them an invaluable asset to a progressive company operating in a modern economy where it’s not just what you know, but it’s whether or not you fit in with the company culture. James Damore no longer fitted in with the company culture at Google, and found that out when he decided to pull a Jerry Maguire and made himself a liability as opposed to an valuable asset :pac:
Software engineers are generally easily replaceable, software engineers who fit with the company culture on the other hand, are an invaluable asset, including software engineers from India who generally work for peanuts compared to their American counterparts. Just ask anyone who works at Disney
Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers With Immigrants
We’re not even close to being at that level in Ireland yet where Irish people are a minority in IT, in fact we’re punching well above our weight in that regard with the number of indigenous Irish people employed in Irish IT HPSUs -
High Potential Start-ups (HPSUs) - Do I qualify?Anyway its clear your worldview is entirely corporate. In that world what matters is corporate strategies to get women in general ( and you in specific I suppose) to the "C-Suite". Theres a mixture here of corporatist jargon and victim feminism which is unappealing, and you don't really seem to know how the other half lives.
Not at all Franz, my world view is just that though - global, as we are now playing in a global economy. In that world what matters is strategies to diversify and increase profitability and sustainable growth, and part of that is of course recognising and acknowledging how the other half lives, as opposed to a formerly insular world view which was dominated by men who imagined they would always be entitled to a job for life solely by virtue of their sex, and are now finding out that such an insular world view is simply neither sustainable nor particularly profitable in the long term. That’s exactly why corporates have had to change their attitudes towards the other half - because they’re beginning to recognise the influence the other half has, ironically in part thanks to their own inventions like social media which made the global economy a whole lot smaller and does away with many of the physical barriers to employment allowing for the creation of new opportunities which didn’t exist before, like competing for market domination in IT in industrialised fast growing economies like India -India, home of the world's fastest-growing economy, is quickly becoming one of the globe's greatest technology hubs.
That is partially thanks to the country's abundance of highly skilled technical graduates, whose numbers are growing at a rate of 7 percent per year, according to the latest study from India's ministry of commerce and industry.
It is also credit to India's thriving start-up scene, which is ranked third in the world, accounting for 4,750 businesses.
However, this means competition can be fierce and choosing the right place to work is all the more important. Based on reviews from current or former employees, U.S. employment search engine company Indeed has ranked the top technology companies to work for in India.
"The companies featured on our Best Places to Work — Tech Companies in India list are not only industry leaders, but also firms known for valuing their employees and offering them great opportunities for career progression," said Sashi Kumar, managing director of Indeed India.
He added that they also placed a strong emphasis on leadership programs and company culture.
"Companies that can attract the best talent across sectors are able to create and maintain a strong sense of community and provide capable mentorship. This is especially true of technology firms which strive to create a productive environment for their employees, ensuring optimum levels of job satisfaction," he said.
These are the top 10 tech companies to work for in India
It certainly puts your complainants about the employment prospects for your token inner city white boy in Ireland and accusing me of not knowing how the other half lives, in perspective.0 -
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