Passport application - known by a different name to my birth certificate

Coleman116

I am about to apply for my first Irish passport. I was born in England but both of my parents were Irish citizens.

Growing up, my parents always called me by a name additional to that which appears on my birth certificate and I always believed this was my real name. All my documents have always been in my known-as name. Obviously there is now a discrepancy between my documents and my birth certificate, and I'm planning on using a Statutory Declaration to explain the historical change.

Is this likely to be accepted by the Irish Passport Office, or will I need additional documentation to link the two? If so, what would be acceptable?

Peregrinus

Coleman116 wrote: »

I am about to apply for my first Irish passport. I was born in England but both of my parents were Irish citizens.

Growing up, my parents always called me by a name additional to that which appears on my birth certificate and I always believed this was my real name. All my documents have always been in my known-as name. Obviously there is now a discrepancy between my documents and my birth certificate, and I'm planning on using a Statutory Declaration to explain the historical change.

Is this likely to be accepted by the Irish Passport Office, or will I need additional documentation to link the two? If so, what would be acceptable?

The passport office are very leery about issuing passports in a name that differs from what's on your birth cert. What they'll want is evidence that you have been using the new name consistently for a number of years - which, from the sounds of it, you'll have no difficulty providing.

Best to talk directly to them about what exactly they'll want, though.

Graces7

I changed my name be declaration in Scotland ie there is no paperwork, and when i applied for a passport all I did was send a letter/documents from my bank and any other officials who had known me earlier and then by my new name. There was no problem at all; they are well used to this.

4ensic15

Coleman116 wrote: »

I am about to apply for my first Irish passport. I was born in England but both of my parents were Irish citizens.

Growing up, my parents always called me by a name additional to that which appears on my birth certificate and I always believed this was my real name. ?

I don't get this. Why didn't your parents just give you the name they were going to call you from the start and register it? Just because your parents are Irish doesn't mean they couldn't have worked out what trouble they were causing you.
Are you sure you weren't adopted and given a new name by your adoptive parents?

banie01

4ensic15 wrote: »

I don't get this. Why didn't your parents just give you the name they were going to call you from the start and register it? Just because your parents are Irish doesn't mean they couldn't have worked out what trouble they were causing you.
Are you sure you weren't adopted and given a new name by your adoptive parents?

It's annoying as fúck but in Ireland it's quite common IMO.
My stepfather's birth cert given name is George, no-one knows him by that name and if asked some of his kids probably wouldn't even know.

I know quite a few people in the 40y.o + bracket who'd be in a similar boat namewise.

Even in my own case, my own name is spelled differently on my passport and all other documents than my birthcert.
Not quite a completely different name, but I still provided evidence of common usage and the passport office issued my passport in the "new" name.

STB.

Coleman116 wrote: »

Is this likely to be accepted by the Irish Passport Office, or will I need additional documentation to link the two? If so, what would be acceptable?

Depends. Are you any good at the oul soccer ?

stinkbomb

4ensic15 wrote: »

I don't get this. Why didn't your parents just give you the name they were going to call you from the start and register it? Just because your parents are Irish doesn't mean they couldn't have worked out what trouble they were causing you.
Are you sure you weren't adopted and given a new name by your adoptive parents?

What's' to get? It's always been common enough in Ireland to be known as a different name to the one on your birth cert. My father has 7 siblings, every one of them has a saints name as their first name on the certs and baptised as, but is known as an entirely different name (their middle name, for most of them). Then you have the diminutives and nicknames, I recall an elderly Molly who'd long since forgotten her given name was Mary, John's always called Jack, Henrys called Harry, Margarets called Peggy or Daisy their whole lives.

Victor

^^^

Some families have a tradition of people having 'English' names on their birth certificates, but are known by the Irish version or vice versa.

splinter65

None of my mothers family are known by their own birth cert name and one of my brothers is known by his middle name. This is all totally normal to us.

4ensic15

stinkbomb wrote: »

What's' to get? It's always been common enough in Ireland to be known as a different name to the one on your birth cert. My father has 7 siblings, every one of them has a saints name as their first name on the certs and baptised as, but is known as an entirely different name (their middle name, for most of them). Then you have the diminutives and nicknames, I recall an elderly Molly who'd long since forgotten her given name was Mary, John's always called Jack, Henrys called Harry, Margarets called Peggy or Daisy their whole lives.

It's a bit stupid. Why not put the name they are going to call the person on the birth cert in the first place.

splinter65

4ensic15 wrote: »

It's a bit stupid. Why not put the name they are going to call the person on the birth cert in the first place.

Ok I’ll just give you an example. I’m living with my husband Paddy and his widowed father Patrick lives with us and I’ve just called my eldest child....Patrick Anthony. Is it not just less confusing to call the baby Tony?

stinkbomb

4ensic15 wrote: »

It's a bit stupid. Why not put the name they are going to call the person on the birth cert in the first place.

It's not a bit stupid. You don't put the dimunitives and nicknames you might call your kid on the birth cert, you give them the proper name so that they can choose for themselves when they are older. Lizzie or Beth might want to be Elizabeth or Eliza when they are older. Plus its traditional.

Also, none of your business.

4ensic15

stinkbomb wrote: »

It's not a bit stupid. You don't put the dimunitives and nicknames you might call your kid on the birth cert, you give them the proper name so that they can choose for themselves when they are older. Lizzie or Beth might want to be Elizabeth or Eliza when they are older. Plus its traditional.

Also, none of your business.

Why not put Lizzie on the birth cert and let them call themselves Elizabeth if they want? A name is given to a child not taken by a child. Why people register one name and then give another when it causes confusion for the rest of the child's natural life is beyond me. None of my siblings are known by anything other than the name on their birth cert.

stinkbomb

It doesn't cause any confusion unless you are very easily confused. Newsflash, other people are not you and may do things differently to you; this is perfectly acceptable.
it is and always has been totally normal to have one name on birth cert and another known as name. You not understanding the concept does mean it is wrong.

Claw Hammer

I blame the parents.

4ensic15

stinkbomb wrote: »

It doesn't cause any confusion unless you are very easily confused. Newsflash, other people are not you and may do things differently to you; this is perfectly acceptable.
it is and always has been totally normal to have one name on birth cert and another known as name. You not understanding the concept does mean it is wrong.

That is nonsense. Birth Certs have only been around since the end of the 19th Century so about 160 years. people had names long before that. Just because something is common doesn't mean it isn't stupid. A large percentage of people don't wash their hands when they go to the toilet. That is stupid and just because it is common does not mean it is acceptable.
Since this is a legal discussion here is a quote from Henchy J in Roche v Peilow 1985 1 Ir 232
"a person cannot be said to be acting reasonably if he automatically and mindlessly follows a practice of others when by taking thought he would have realised that the practice in question was fraught with peril"

10pennymixup

stinkbomb wrote: »

It doesn't cause any confusion unless you are very easily confused. Newsflash, other people are not you and may do things differently to you; this is perfectly acceptable.
it is and always has been totally normal to have one name on birth cert and another known as name. You not understanding the concept does mean it is wrong.

I get the reasons why it happens and know of one case only myself, but to say the practice doesn't cause confusion is just wrong.

From this thread alone anyone can see that it causes confusion (and not just with the simple minded stinkbomb, the passport office and others seem to have a problem with it as well).

Neither is it "totally normal" just because it is explainable. It is not the common standard, most people are known by the name on their birth cert.

RayCun

splinter65 wrote: »

Ok I’ll just give you an example. I’m living with my husband Paddy and his widowed father Patrick lives with us and I’ve just called my eldest child....Patrick Anthony. Is it not just less confusing to call the baby Tony?

It would have been less confusing for you to buy a book of baby names :pac:

(all of my father's family are officially "X Y Bloggs" and all of them go by Y instead of X. I don't know why. But it's a thing.)

stinkbomb

It's never caused any confusion in anyone in my family, or any others we know, with the passport office or anyone else. As i said, its very common, people are used to it, any anyone confused by people being known as a nickname or a middle name must be very easily confused as both my 2 year old and my 98 year old very confusable granny are both able to deal with the concept easily enough....

4ensic15

stinkbomb wrote: »

It's never caused any confusion in anyone in my family, or any others we know, with the passport office or anyone else. As i said, its very common, people are used to it, any anyone confused by people being known as a nickname or a middle name must be very easily confused as both my 2 year old and my 98 year old very confusable granny are both able to deal with the concept easily enough....

I have seen people being refused admittance to flights because a family member booked the ticket in the familiar version of their name. Maybe your family is an exception or else none of you travels by air.

stinkbomb

We all travel by air. The trick is to actually know the names of family members if you are booking them flights. I'm sorry you find such a thing so hard, but please don't assume everyone else does. It's not actually terribly difficult.

Under His Eye

A great fix would be to require each person in a family to have an unique name. Do away with middle and third names.

stinkbomb

It can the middle name that makes them unique. Are you seriously suggesting that calling say a son after his father is in someway confusing? It's only been a thing since the actual invention of names......

10pennymixup

Sorry if this post causes any confusion, but is this thread the Legal Discussion forum Christmas pantomine?

The actor on stage keeps shouting "Oh No it isn't"!

And many in the audience shout back "Oh yes it is"!:)

splinter65

4ensic15 wrote: »

I have seen people being refused admittance to flights because a family member booked the ticket in the familiar version of their name. Maybe your family is an exception or else none of you travels by air.

If I were booking plane tickets for my family I would know to book them by the names given them by their parents, not the names we know them as. It’s really not very difficult at all even though you are insisting that it is.

splinter65

RayCun wrote: »

It would have been less confusing for you to buy a book of baby names :pac:

(all of my father's family are officially "X Y Bloggs" and all of them go by Y instead of X. I don't know why. But it's a thing.)

I’m amazed how people seem to get confused and almost offended over things that don’t really matter. Child is known as Tony but named Patrick as it’s an important name in our family. It’s not rocket science at all.
I know that some people think that giving your child a meaningless name picked out of a list in a book, apparently because you thought it would mark them out as “unique”! (every child is unique) is a good idea but it’s not for everyone in fairness.

Dr Turk Turkelton

splinter65 wrote: »

Ok I’ll just give you an example. I’m living with my husband Paddy and his widowed father Patrick lives with us and I’ve just called my eldest child....Patrick Anthony. Is it not just less confusing to call the baby Tony?

Tony? I'd have called him Chuzwuzza.

aisling86

I married a Michael buy his whole family & friends before he started college call him Niall...
From a passport perspective for years he had his birth certificate name on main page & on one of the paper pages if said also known as....
Then he lost his passport & wanted to just use one name (also known as) he had to show proof that he was living by this name for a minimum of 2years, bank statements etc...

RayCun

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m amazed how people seem to get confused and almost offended over things that don’t really matter. Child is known as Tony but named Patrick as it’s an important name in our family.

I'm not offended :pac: As I said, my father and all of his siblings go by their middle names. I just don't see the point.

If Patrick is an important name in the family, call the kid 'Pat' or 'junior' or 'little Paddy' :pac: Or use it as a middle name, if you want a name that appears on official forms but is never used in speech.

L1011

RayCun wrote: »

(all of my father's family are officially "X Y Bloggs" and all of them go by Y instead of X. I don't know why. But it's a thing.)

Are we related? :pac:

I'd say less than half of my family, both sides, use the first name on their birthcert. Some use none of them at all. Its not uncommon and the passport office have ways and means to handle it

LionelNashe

Isn't it less of a thing now than it used to be? My 4 grandparents went by diminutives 100% of the time (i.e. Peggy, Tom, Joe, Lizzie); so do my 5 uncles & 3 of my 6 aunts, but neither myself nor my 2 siblings nor any of my 20 cousins do.

FelaniaMump

RayCun wrote: »

I'm not offended :pac: ..... I just don't see the point.

I'll give you a great tip for life, now listen carefully....you don't have to see the point of what other people choose to do, or think, or say. Your feelings on the matter at hand are of no consequence to anyone but you.

Advocating entire swathes of people to change their behaviour based on you not seeing the point is both silly and arrogant.

RayCun

:pac:

There's definitely someone here who has strong feelings on the subject, but it isn't me :pac:

Esel

FelaniaMump wrote: »

I'll give you a great tip for life, now listen carefully....you don't have to see the point of what other people choose to do, or think, or say. Your feelings on the matter at hand are of no consequence to anyone but you.

Advocating entire swathes of people to change their behaviour based on you not seeing the point is both silly and arrogant.

Tell us a few of your AKAs.

splinter65

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Tony? I'd have called him Chuzwuzza.

Just so he’d be “unique” yeah ?

Bannasidhe

L1011 wrote: »

Are we related? :pac:

I'd say less than half of my family, both sides, use the first name on their birthcert. Some use none of them at all. Its not uncommon and the passport office have ways and means to handle it

With the exception of my three nieces (who are Swiss so do things differently ) not one member of my family is known by the name on their birth cert - the only times this causes any confusion is when the person themselves forgets the name they are known by isn't their "official" name e.g :my mother getting her driving licence renewed puts down "Betty" forgetting that "Elizabeth" appears nowhere on her birth cert, me sitting in waiting rooms wondering why this "Theresa" person isn't responding forgetting that's me.

I have found that officialdom in Ireland is well used to it. You just say "yes, that's my name but I'm commonly known as ....", then they call you that.

This habit of calling people names other than their "official" one has been the norm in Ireland for literally thousands of years and is a throw back to Gaelic times when people used "family" names so to tell the various people in the clan with the same name apart nicknames were used to distinguish them. Some of the nicknames were quite amusing - one of the many many many Ulick Burkes of Galway's nickname translates into English as "Penis of Plenty", while Gráinne Ní Mhaille's second husband, Risteard na Búrc was know as Risteard in Iarainn ("Iron Dick") - her first husband was Domhnail "an Chogaidh" Uí Flaithbheartaigh (Donal of the Battles/Fighting Donal).

I like it - it's one of the few really Gaelic traditions we have retained.

RayCun

Please tell me that instead of "Theresa" your family call you "Mary of the Bloody Gaze"

Bannasidhe

RayCun wrote: »

Please tell me that instead of "Theresa" your family call you "Mary of the Bloody Gaze"

Sadly No.

But my brother does have Mary on his birth cert. :pac:

Claw Hammer

Bannasidhe wrote: »

With the exception of my three nieces (who are Swiss so do things differently ) not one member of my family is known by the name on their birth cert - the only times this causes any confusion is when the person themselves forgets the name they are known by isn't their "official" name e.g :my mother getting her driving licence renewed puts down "Betty" forgetting that "Elizabeth" appears nowhere on her birth cert, me sitting in waiting rooms wondering why this "Theresa" person isn't responding forgetting that's me.

I have found that officialdom in Ireland is well used to it. You just say "yes, that's my name but I'm commonly known as ....", then they call you that.

This habit of calling people names other than their "official" one has been the norm in Ireland for literally thousands of years and is a throw back to Gaelic times when people used "family" names so to tell the various people in the clan with the same name apart nicknames were used to distinguish them. Some of the nicknames were quite amusing - one of the many many many Ulick Burkes of Galway's nickname translates into English as "Penis of Plenty", while Gráinne Ní Mhaille's second husband, Risteard na Búrc was know as Risteard in Iarainn ("Iron Dick") - her first husband was Domhnail "an Chogaidh" Uí Flaithbheartaigh (Donal of the Battles/Fighting Donal).

I like it - it's one of the few really Gaelic traditions we have retained.

Registering of births in Ireland only started in the 1860s so this 100s of years is nonsense. as you have pointed out people forget the official name and then cause trouble for themselves and others.

rock22

I don't think I have ever used the first name on my birth certificate. Just about to travel across the world with my passport ( of 40 years) with my 'used' name. I have never had a passport with my actual birth cert name on it.

Bannasidhe

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Registering of births in Ireland only started in the 1860s so this 100s of years is nonsense. as you have pointed out people forget the official name and then cause trouble for themselves and others.

Yes - and before the 1860s no one had an official name - usually given at baptism :rolleyes:

Pull your horns in there - I was simply pointing out this is not only usual in Ireland, It has been the case for centuries.

And the only people I showed getting "confused" were the people who forgot that their own official name is as they are so used to their nickname being used.
Because that is what it is - a fecking nickname.

Ya'll want to outlaw nicknames now????

Claw Hammer

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Yes - and before the 1860s no one had an official name - usually given at baptism :rolleyes:

Pull your horns in there - I was simply pointing out this is not only usual in Ireland, It has been the case for centuries.

And the only people I showed getting "confused" were the people who forgot that their own official name is as they are so used to their nickname being used.
Because that is what it is - a fecking nickname.

Ya'll want to outlaw nicknames now????

It can have been going on for centuries because 1860 was only 158 years ago which is less than 2 centuries. prior to that nicknames were official e.g. Red Hugh O Donnell. There were no passports. What I object to is parents putting one name on a birth cert and then calling the child by a different name.