Neighbours stove causing issues

mikekerry

Hi,
A neighbour of ours put in a stove a few weeks ago next to our family home ( I don't live there), ever since then there has been issue in our house with the wall in the downstairs sitting room becoming very hot when the neighbour's stove is burning fuel.
As well as this the upstairs room just above the sitting room has become uninhabitable due the smoke that's coning in along with a very bad smell.
A family member installed a carbon monoxide alarm in the upstairs bedroom and the alarm immediately went off resulting in the family leaving the house and calling the fire brigade.
The neighbor was told by the fire brigade to stop lighting fires in the stove but he refuses to stop .
A family member has contacted the council but they along with the fire brigade and gaurds say it is not their issue.
We are currently trying to get an engineer out to have a look.
Is there any authority that can be contacted to resolve this issue?
thanks

mikekerry

the houses are privately owned

Dardania

mikekerry wrote: »

Hi,
A neighbour of ours put in a stove a few weeks ago next to our family home ( I don't live there), ever since then there has been issue in our house with the wall in the downstairs sitting room becoming very hot when the neighbour's stove is burning fuel.
As well as this the upstairs room just above the sitting room has become uninhabitable due the smoke that's coning in along with a very bad smell.
A family member installed a carbon monoxide alarm in the upstairs bedroom and the alarm immediately went off resulting in the family leaving the house and calling the fire brigade.
The neighbor was told by the fire brigade to stop lighting fires in the stove but he refuses to stop .
A family member has contacted the council but they along with the fire brigade and gaurds say it is not their issue.
We are currently trying to get an engineer out to have a look.
Is there any authority that can be contacted to resolve this issue?
thanks

Sounds like a very worrying situation.

It sounds like the building regs weren’t adaquetly followed: https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/tgd-part-j-heat-producing-appliances/technical-guidance-document-tgd

In which case it goes back to the council

mikekerry

yes but the council are saying it's not their issue as the houses are privately owned

Dardania

mikekerry wrote: »

yes but the council are saying it's not their issue as the houses are privately owned

I don’t think it’s a question to be put to the social housing section (who influence social tenants) - it needs to go to the building control section. The lock authorities have responsibility for that too: https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/building-regulations/building-control

You have smoke and carbon monoxide leaking into your house from your neighbours leaking chimney.

Their stove and flue liner (if there is one) has not been installed correctly.

This is an extremely dangerous setup that must be stopped.

If they are not willing to cooperate Id go straight to a solicitor for professional advice and see what they would advise regarding legal action.

davindub

mikekerry wrote: »

Hi,
A neighbour of ours put in a stove a few weeks ago next to our family home ( I don't live there), ever since then there has been issue in our house with the wall in the downstairs sitting room becoming very hot when the neighbour's stove is burning fuel.
As well as this the upstairs room just above the sitting room has become uninhabitable due the smoke that's coning in along with a very bad smell.
A family member installed a carbon monoxide alarm in the upstairs bedroom and the alarm immediately went off resulting in the family leaving the house and calling the fire brigade.
The neighbor was told by the fire brigade to stop lighting fires in the stove but he refuses to stop .
A family member has contacted the council but they along with the fire brigade and gaurds say it is not their issue.
We are currently trying to get an engineer out to have a look.
Is there any authority that can be contacted to resolve this issue?
thanks

Probably best to contact a solicitor. If the neighbour is aware of the potential health hazards and continues to light the fire, he should be prepared to compensate you.

I would also approach the guards again, it is a civil issue but there is a risk to life so there is endangerment which is a criminal offense. Again the solicitor may be able to do this for you.

Del2005

I'd be getting in contact with the EPA, your neighbour is polluting your house.

malinheader

Christ that's not a neighbour that's a proper nightmare. Anyone who has been told there putting carbon monoxide into a neighbour house and doesn't stop is a total nut job. I would be onto the epa and get a solicitors letter sent straight away stating compensation will be sought if his chimney or flue is found to be faulty.

James 007

https://lema.epa.ie/complaints

Contact the EPA Office 053-916 0600

Car expert

Ringing EPA waste of time, you need to exhaust the council dept first.

ted1

you need to get them to stop straight away. There is no lining in the chimney and it’s leaking. Stoves are cheap. Fitting them correctly isn’t.

surrender monkey

You need to ring your local council again and ask to speak to the environmental health officer. I would also go straight away to a solicitor and have them write to your neighbour. If carbon monoxide is leaking into your house it's leaking into his also. Bring him into your house and show him what's going on and tell him someone could die if he doesn't have it repaired.

MarkR

Keep the carbon monoxide alarm active. When its triggered, get outside and call emergency services. Bill will go to neighbour hopefully.

Wildly Boaring

When you called the fire brigade, who paid?

Generally the call out charge is substantial and goes to the person who called it.

I have heard of the details of the offending party being sent to fire brigade as the party to bill....

Caused a bit of friction though.
Was a farmer burning stubble and straw.


Also when not having joy from the council write to them. Environment section.

Car expert

MarkR wrote: »

Keep the carbon monoxide alarm active. When its triggered, get outside and call emergency services. Bill will go to neighbour hopefully.

No it won’t, whoever calls pays.

Wildly Boaring

MarkR wrote: »

Keep the carbon monoxide alarm active. When its triggered, get outside and call emergency services. Bill will go to neighbour hopefully.

Snap.

Although I'd make sure the first one does before getting more. Had to call them to a skip fire in cork city. Over a grand. They did have to stay a while to ensure it was out

the_pen_turner

surely this is some kind of assault or intentional harm

TheChizler

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Snap.

Although I'd make sure the first one does before getting more. Had to call them to a skip fire in cork city. Over a grand. They did have to stay a while to ensure it was out

Cork City Fire Brigade don't charge, you sure about that? Unless they've changed policy very recently.

Gileadi

It is the councils responsibility, contact building control department.

The recent works (as you describe them) cannot comply with the building regulations (TGD J would be a good place to start) so the council can inspect/intervene/prosecute as necessary.

In parallel I’d try reason with the neighbour, if the carbon monoxide alarm is going off the levels could harm or kill an inhabitant, which they would be responsible for. It’s horrifically reckless

Fann Linn

The OP could go to the council or to the EPA and they will respond, however a Direction will be issued under some Act or Regulation and the alleged offender will be given instructions on what to do and what the penalties are if they are not complied with.
All this will take time.

If the Fire service, as an Authority have given a Direction, my next port of call would then be to the Gardai, followed by a visit to a Solicitor to get an injunction in the Court.
It will be quicker and more secure.

If the OP rang their LA tomorrow, their case will spend the morning being bounced around between Environment, Building Regs, Planning and Fire.

From experience.

Mrs OBumble

Car expert wrote: »

No it won’t, whoever calls pays.

Not that clear cut.

Where there's a charge, it goes to the owner of whatever was on fire, or whoever received the benefit of the service.



OP, as well as a solicitor, contact a local councillor and/or TD from a party with a reputation for getting things done. You may need to have some "local knowledge" applied to encourage your neighbour to be better behaved.

Wildly Boaring

TheChizler wrote: »

Cork City Fire Brigade don't charge, you sure about that? Unless they've changed policy very recently.

Cork charge companies and even landlords.

Private callouts free.

the_pen_turner

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not that clear cut.

Where there's a charge, it goes to the owner of whatever was on fire, or whoever received the benefit of the service.

sounds like either the neighbour is 100% liable or both are 50.50 liable.

ring the firebregade and tell them your party wall is on fire and that next doors fire is causing it.

goat2

I am wondering if they got the right person to install it, I had one fitted to an old building, and it cost more than the stove itself to install it safely, with lining chimney from stove to top exit of chimney and cementing in around it on top, It is well worth it, but a qualified person is the only one to do a job like this,
You have Health and Safety issues, they must address it

L1011

Car expert wrote: »

No it won’t, whoever calls pays.

Utterly incorrect and dangerous to even suggest as it stops people calling in fires they see.

Beneficial owner pays.

Fann Linn

If a monoxide alarm was going off and my family was at risk the least of my worries would be the fire brigade call out charge.

punisher5112

Seriously op I would be banging the neighbours door down and making a scene at least.

Call the Gardai and an ambulance and fire if you feel any way at all like you have been poisioned.

This is serious and you need to be away from this threat.

Can you live anywhere else like family or friends until this is fixed?

This could and does kill and very quickly at that. You could be asleep and never wake up if this continues.

As mentioned you need to contact the council and environment agency.

I honestly can't believe the crap they all spout out it's nothing to do with them such as Garda answers.

The other occupier needs to stop and be made do so.

looksee

We had a very similar situation and I called the fire brigade when I could see smoke in a bedroom - I don't know if next door actually got the bill (we were on good terms with them and there was no aggravation) but we certainly didn't and the fire officer was very sympathetic to us about the situation.

fritzelly

Isn't this tantamount to attempted murder - I mean seriously, he knows what is happening but continues to do it with the very likelihood he could kill someone
As said previously on to a solicitor if the council won't do anything

Graham

OP, it might be worth talking to the local chief fire officer to see if a fire safety notice could be issued to the neighbour.

spookwoman

I would advise you to at least get the smoke and the alarm going off on video and show it to whomever you go to see eg the solicitor etc.

Graham

Mod Note

If you'd like to debate callout charges for the fire service, take it somewhere else please.

mikekerry

Op here.
I don't live there myself but my parents do
They have moved to a relatives place for the moment.
The neighbour was told to stop lighting the stove by the fire brigade but has continued as of today he says their is no issue in his side even though he only got the stove in a few weeks back. The problems started then.
My brother went to the council but they said it's not their issue. They suggested getting an engineer but it's not that easy to find one down the country plus the cost of this and the call out charge my parents will be bilked for calling the fire brigade.
The gaurds are washing their hands of it also.

Sycamore Tree

Calling EPA a waste of time.

Can you find out the plumber who installed the stove?

Did they ever have an open fire before the stove?

Any previous issues with the neighbour or the house construction?

When was the house built? Do you share a chimney stack? Have you an open fire? Are/Were there fireplaces upstairs ever?

Whats the draw on the chimney like? Is it coming out heavy and settling on the roof?

Raise hell. Solictor, Councillors, TDs, Gardai (make a statement).

Fann Linn

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Calling EPA a waste of time.

Can you find out the plumber who installed the stove?

Did they ever have an open fire before the stove?

Any previous issues with the neighbour or the house construction?

Raise hell. Solictor, Councillors, TDs, Gardai (make a statement).

No plumber, or tradesman of any kind is going to admit to doing a botched job.

Sycamore Tree

Fann Linn wrote: »

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Calling EPA a waste of time.

Can you find out the plumber who installed the stove?

Did they ever have an open fire before the stove?

Any previous issues with the neighbour or the house construction?

Raise hell. Solictor, Councillors, TDs, Gardai (make a statement).

No plumber, or tradesman of any kind is going to admit to doing a botched job.

They dont have to admit it, you simply explain what has happened and then threaten to sue his insurance. Its obviously a botched job.

Spook_ie

Surely just an injunction on h&s grounds, becomes a Garda matter then whenever he lights the stove.

corks finest

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

When you called the fire brigade, who paid?

Generally the call out charge is substantial and goes to the person who called it.

I have heard of the details of the offending party being sent to fire brigade as the party to bill....

Caused a bit of friction though.
Was a farmer burning stubble and straw.


Also when not having joy from the council write to them. Environment section.

Fire service

jasper100

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Its obviously a botched job.

How is it obvious? There are 2 sides to every story and no evidence has been presented here.

For all we know a bird may have nested in the ops chimney over the summer and they just started lighting their fire around the same time the stove was fitted.

If the neighbour had been lighting open fires all aling then smoke would have been leaking in for years, if there is a damaged chimney.

smelly sock

mikekerry wrote: »

Hi,
A neighbour of ours put in a stove a few weeks ago next to our family home ( I don't live there), ever since then there has been issue in our house with the wall in the downstairs sitting room becoming very hot when the neighbour's stove is burning fuel.
As well as this the upstairs room just above the sitting room has become uninhabitable due the smoke that's coning in along with a very bad smell.
A family member installed a carbon monoxide alarm in the upstairs bedroom and the alarm immediately went off resulting in the family leaving the house and calling the fire brigade.
The neighbor was told by the fire brigade to stop lighting fires in the stove but he refuses to stop .
A family member has contacted the council but they along with the fire brigade and gaurds say it is not their issue.
We are currently trying to get an engineer out to have a look.
Is there any authority that can be contacted to resolve this issue?
thanks

Your neighbour sounds like a wanker of the highest order.

Gumbo

Graham wrote: »

OP, it might be worth talking to the local chief fire officer to see if a fire safety notice could be issued to the neighbour.

I don’t think the chief fire officer will get involved in domestic issues (single family dwellings).
Here in Dublin, he cant, it’s under the remit of Building Control and the Senior Building Surveyor for the city and his staff. I would advise contacting Building Control and mention that the stove has possibly been fitted in contradiction to Part B and Part J of the Building Regulations. Tell them you had to evacuate the building due to leaking CO recently. But hers the issue, there’s obviously a break down in the party wall somewhere, and the fixing of this is now a joint civil issue that you guys need to sort out yourselves.

Spook_ie wrote: »

Surely just an injunction on h&s grounds, becomes a Garda matter then whenever he lights the stove.

H&S Authority will not get involved from my experience. They will rule it a building regulation issue and thus a building control problem.

STB.

jasper100 wrote: »

How is it obvious? There are 2 sides to every story and no evidence has been presented here.

For all we know a bird may have nested in the ops chimney over the summer and they just started lighting their fire around the same time the stove was fitted.

If the neighbour had been lighting open fires all aling then smoke would have been leaking in for years, if there is a damaged chimney.

READ.


https://www.stovefittersmanual.co.uk/articles/fitting-a-chimney-liner/

Graham

kceire wrote: »

I don’t think the chief fire officer will get involved in domestic issues (single family dwellings).
Here in Dublin, he cant, it’s under the remit of Building Control and the Senior Building Surveyor for the city and his staff.

I wouldn't pretend to be certain either way. I only had a quick scan through the fire services act.

Spook_ie

kceire wrote: »

I don’t think the chief fire officer will get involved in domestic issues (single family dwellings).
Here in Dublin, he cant, it’s under the remit of Building Control and the Senior Building Surveyor for the city and his staff. I would advise contacting Building Control and mention that the stove has possibly been fitted in contradiction to Part B and Part J of the Building Regulations. Tell them you had to evacuate the building due to leaking CO recently. But hers the issue, there’s obviously a break down in the party wall somewhere, and the fixing of this is now a joint civil issue that you guys need to sort out yourselves.



H&S Authority will not get involved from my experience. They will rule it a building regulation issue and thus a building control problem.

Don't think they need the H&S Authority to action it they should still be able to get an injunction under a H & S risk, if not they should still be able to obtain an injunction under nuisance where they are prevented from use of their asset.
Consult a solicitor and get whatever injunction is needed.

STB.

@ OP. Get on to your local Environmental Health Officer immediately.


https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/environ/complaints-and-review-officers/

Graham

kceire wrote: »

I don’t think the chief fire officer will get involved in domestic issues (single family dwellings).
Here in Dublin, he cant, it’s under the remit of Building Control and the Senior Building Surveyor for the city and his staff.

Interesting to note that in quite a few CoCos, the chief fire officer is also the building control officer.

Added,

OP here's a list of building control officers for each county, I'd be picking up the phone in the morning: https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/other/building-control-officers-contact-points

Fann Linn

STB. wrote: »

@ OP. Get on to your local Environmental Health Officer immediately.


https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/environ/complaints-and-review-officers/

They investigate food safety, rodents,etc.

yogmeister

It's amazing that if you put an animals life in danger in this country you can be prosecuted but do the same to somebody in their own home and everyone from local councils to gardai won't help. What a country.

ford2600

Go to solicitor.

Get him to instruct appropriate engineer who can measure levels.

Get estimate of total cost and send via solicitor to neighbour. Give him 24hrs or whatever lawyer feels will work to come back with proposal for remedial works to your engineers satisfaction.

If he doesn't injunct him and fix him with all costs. It'll be 5 figure very quickly.

That'll get his attention.

He's a cnut start treating him like one

rgodard80a

Just another possible action... the neighbour doesn't think it's doing him any harm.

Next time the carbon monoxide alarm goes off, maybe consider calling into your neighbour and offer a free check on their side.
Bring the alarm in and see if it goes on on their side / their upstairs room too.

That might get more of a reaction.

I don't see the point of calling the fire brigade each time... what will they do apart from tell you to open your windows and doors, and not sure if they have air quality meters, or ability to demand the neighbour stops their actions?

I know this is a safety issue, but not sure it's right to misuse the fire brigade to referee this dispute.