Worth upgrading to a hybrid?

adocholiday

Hi all,

I've recently moved away from my work leaving me with a 60km each way commute. Right now I'm driving a 2010 Audi A4 and getting roughly 45mpg. My commuting costs are obviously significant as a result.

I hadn't really been considering upgrading because the Audi is in great nick, only has 147,000km on the clock, and is a lovely car to drive. I'd happily hold onto it for a good while more but then I was speaking to someone who told me that hybrids can get up to double that mpg.

The new Corolla looks like it might be a really nice option if I decide to go with a hybrid, but I'd also go for an older option if it was the right move.

So 3 questions:
1. Is it worth upgrading to a hybrid?
2. If so, would it worth going for the new Corolla?
3. If so, is it worth going to the UK to get it?
4. If not the Corolla, what would be a good alternative?

Many thanks

Lantus

A friend told you hybrids do 90mpg....

Yeah.......

Maybe in certain urban mixed journeys they will provide improved efficiency but the whole hybrid scam seems to be pulling so many people in its worrying.

The mpg ratings and tests are just so well constructed (often by the manufacturers) to make the technology look great.

Real world tests...



Edit: check out honest John site. Prius 64mpg and octavia 60mpg average for current versions.

Driving style or journey will wipe out any difference.

irishgrover

you won't get good mileage on a hybrid if you are doing any kind of long distance / non urban (ie fast) driving. So IMHO to answer your questions
1. No - unless you have a very slow commute
2. No - because of one
3. NA
4. Would you consider going full EV? I was in a similar position to you - 140km commute, all motorway.. I bought a hyundai Ioniq and
a. Am saving a fortune on fuel ~€4k pa min
b. am driving a really comfortable and well spec'ed car

adocholiday

Thanks for the quick replies. I thought 90mpg would be too good to be true alright. My commute is 80% motorway driving, deal with very little traffic so definitely not a slow commute.

Haven't really considered a full electric car yet. Not exactly adverse to the idea but don't think it would work well for me. I've no place to plug in at work, I just park at the side of a road and no charging stations anywhere nearby that I know of.

Shefwedfan

Probably the wrong forum, would suggest posting in electric and hybrid

I would look at hybrid as a minimum, PHEV as a stepping stone and potentially Bev....lots of questions and advice if you want to go Bev

adocholiday

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Probably the wrong forum, would suggest posting in electric and hybrid

I would look at hybrid as a minimum, PHEV as a stepping stone and potentially Bev....lots of questions and advice if you want to go Bev

Thanks I'll post there too!

Atlantic Dawn

How many miles/km is your commute per year? If the cost of it halved how much per year would you save?

adocholiday

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

How many miles/km is your commute per year? If the cost of it halved how much per year would you save?

Well I'm doing 600km per week. Let's say it's 46 working weeks then accounting for holidays/Bank Holidays etc. that's 27,600km. Add in general driving then on top of that like shop runs, weekends away probably looking at 35-40k km per year. My audi does about 6l for every 100 km. That's about 2,400l of diesel in a year and at 1.40 per litre that's €3,360 in fuel per year roughly.

pablo128

Would it be worth having your current car checked to see if it's running right? 45 mpg isn't great given the type of driving you do. I assume it's a 2.0 diesel?

Lantus

Your commute suits a good diesel.

A 3 year old car like an octavia, superb etc will be cheaper and deliver better efficiency overall than a brand new hybrid which will give you a tiny edge on motorways. But any car costs more money than fuel. Don't rush to spend 15 to 20k to save money....

adocholiday

pablo128 wrote: »

Would it be worth having your current car checked to see if it's running right? 45 mpg isn't great given the type of driving you do. I assume it's a 2.0 diesel?

Yeah it's a 2.0 diesel, the 119bhp model. I would have thought 45mpg was reasonable for that car? In terms of distance it's about 45km of motorway/N Road driving and 15km of stop/start type driving.

adocholiday

Lantus wrote: »

Your commute suits a good diesel.

A 3 year old car like an octavia, superb etc will be cheaper and deliver better efficiency overall than a brand new hybrid which will give you a tiny edge on motorways. But any car costs more money than fuel. Don't rush to spend 15 to 20k to save money....

If diesel is the best option for me then I'm happy to stick with what I have. I'd only consider upgrading if the fuel savings were massively significant. The Audi is paid off and just passed the NCT Friday without a hiccup, in for a service this week coming there's many years left in it.

Lantus

adocholiday wrote:

If diesel is the best option for me then I'm happy to stick with what I have. I'd only consider upgrading if the fuel savings were massively significant. The Audi is paid off and just passed the NCT Friday without a hiccup, in for a service this week coming there's many years left in it.

That car costs you nothing. I'd keep it as long as you can until you need a new one.

Even if you half your fuel cost to say 1700 a year having bought a 15k car to do it. It will take 8 years to realise the fuel savings from your current car repayments of zero.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

adocholiday wrote: »

If diesel is the best option for me then I'm happy to stick with what I have. I'd only consider upgrading if the fuel savings were massively significant. The Audi is paid off and just passed the NCT Friday without a hiccup, in for a service this week coming there's many years left in it.

Going to recommend something as an experiment here.

Drive your car normal for a week with commuting etc and calculate the exact or near exact mpg figure for that week and take note.

The second week drive your commute and everything as normal, except, do not exceed 100kmh on the motorway, it'll only cost you a small few minutes but calculate the mpg for the week and you'll see a noticeable difference.

I do this myself in my own 2L diesel and the mpg guage on the dash (yes I know but hear me out !)

At 120kmh will show close or on 50mpg

At 100kmh it's easily well over 50mpg that it doesn't have a figure but it's easily noted a big difference that the distance to empty is constantly increasing in distance.

And the difference in 20kmh over that distance isint huge , it will only be a few minutes difference in your commute but will be worth the fuel savings.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Manufactures numbers versus real world.

Hybrids do a fraction of what you read they do. Sometimes my hybrid tells me I’m doing 149 mpg. They’re really about the same as a newer diesel.

Philb76

Friend has an auris hybrid doing tipping about low mileage and he's calling bs on the real world

Shefwedfan

Lantus wrote: »

Your commute suits a good diesel.

A 3 year old car like an octavia, superb etc will be cheaper and deliver better efficiency overall than a brand new hybrid which will give you a tiny edge on motorways. But any car costs more money than fuel. Don't rush to spend 15 to 20k to save money....

60km is not diesel driving.....never was and never will be.....


Take a Niro PHEV it will do 50km on the battery alone. So you only use fuel for 10km...if you have a charger at work then you fuel for 20km per day instead of 120km

Diesel will cost 50-60 per week to do that distance. Electricity at night rate to do the same distance would be 8-10 euro.....just an idea of fuel savings



Any decent electric will do 120km no problem per charge. Gen 1 eGolf will do it no issue.

Lantus

Shefwedfan wrote:

60km is not diesel driving.....never was and never will be.....

120km a day, 600 a week and 35 to 40k a year with all ancillary journeys most certainly is in diesel land.

galvo_clare

How do you figure a hybrid has an edge on motorways? It doesn’t as the hybrid system contributes nothing at steady motorway speeds. A good diesel will beat it.

Lantus wrote: »

Your commute suits a good diesel.

A 3 year old car like an octavia, superb etc will be cheaper and deliver better efficiency overall than a brand new hybrid which will give you a tiny edge on motorways. But any car costs more money than fuel. Don't rush to spend 15 to 20k to save money....

Lantus

galvo_clare wrote:

How do you figure a hybrid has an edge on motorways? It doesn’t as the hybrid system contributes nothing at steady motorway speeds. A good diesel will beat it.

Tiny edge, meant the start and end points not the m-way.

Agree that a good diesel should be as good or better. But every journey is specific. I can't guarantee that.

James Bond Junior

I do and have done this commute for the past 7 years. Keep your A4, it makes no sense to change as you are racking up significant enough mileage and your depreciation is accelerated as a result.

Shefwedfan

Probably should have asked at start
Are you just swapping car to save money on diesel?
Or you plan on buying a new car and just wondering which to pick?

If it is plan A then stick with what you have, drive her to the ground....hybrid and electric is getting better by the week, 12 months time will see a huge difference.....you could spend 10-20k now and unless you go fulle electric you won’t see massive savings....I would plough on for 12 months and try and save towards a new car....

If plan b then hybrid/electric

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Probably should have asked at start
Are you just swapping car to save money on diesel?
Or you plan on buying a new car and just wondering which to pick?

If it is plan A then stick with what you have, drive her to the ground....hybrid and electric is getting better by the week, 12 months time will see a huge difference.....you could spend 10-20k now and unless you go fulle electric you won’t see massive savings....I would plough on for 12 months and try and save towards a new car....

If plan b then hybrid/electric

The OP already said he’s happy to keep it for a good few years as it’s low mileage, paid off etc. You’re not great at paying attention, are you?

As for saying 60km isn’t diesel territory.. you’re not great at maths either.

adocholiday

I was thinking of switching both because the Audi in its current state would get me the best trade value and for fuel savings. I know that the difference in fuel would be well lost in monthly repayments, but if I bought a new or almost new car that was giving me good economy I'd keep if for many years so in the long run it would save me money.

If I keep the Audi and drive it for another few years it will depreciate pretty quickly with the mileage I'm putting on it so I'll be effectively starting again when it comes to upgrade.

It's not just a question of fuel savings, but also the best timing for trading my current car.

Shefwedfan

JayZeus wrote: »

The OP already said he’s happy to keep it for a good few years as it’s low mileage, paid off etc. You’re not great at paying attention, are you?

As for saying 60km isn’t diesel territory.. you’re not great at maths either.

I am sure the OP was grateful for your helpful post

Shefwedfan

adocholiday wrote: »

I was thinking of switching both because the Audi in its current state would get me the best trade value and for fuel savings. I know that the difference in fuel would be well lost in monthly repayments, but if I bought a new or almost new car that was giving me good economy I'd keep if for many years so in the long run it would save me money.

If I keep the Audi and drive it for another few years it will depreciate pretty quickly with the mileage I'm putting on it so I'll be effectively starting again when it comes to upgrade.

It's not just a question of fuel savings, but also the best timing for trading my current car.

Any car you buy will depreciate quickly because of the mileage. If you have no real reason to trade, get full service and plan to keep the car for 3-4 years and drive it into the ground. The Audi diesel engine will run for for another few years with regular service and maybe some parts to swap out.....get a good local garage who you can get to service and repair car cheaper than Audi, then you sorted.....

Widdensushi

adocholiday wrote: »

I was thinking of switching both because the Audi in its current state would get me the best trade value and for fuel savings. I know that the difference in fuel would be well lost in monthly repayments, but if I bought a new or almost new car that was giving me good economy I'd keep if for many years so in the long run it would save me money.

If I keep the Audi and drive it for another few years it will depreciate pretty quickly with the mileage I'm putting on it so I'll be effectively starting again when it comes to upgrade.

It's not just a question of fuel savings, but also the best timing for trading my current car.

What fuel savings, you are basically changing from diesel to petrol.The hybrid will offset it a little but from the commute you are describing you could end up spending more on fuel and what you buy will depreciate faster than the car you have.Keep the car and save for changing in a couple of years and you will be further ahead then.

adocholiday

Shefwedfan wrote: »

adocholiday wrote: »

I was thinking of switching both because the Audi in its current state would get me the best trade value and for fuel savings. I know that the difference in fuel would be well lost in monthly repayments, but if I bought a new or almost new car that was giving me good economy I'd keep if for many years so in the long run it would save me money.

If I keep the Audi and drive it for another few years it will depreciate pretty quickly with the mileage I'm putting on it so I'll be effectively starting again when it comes to upgrade.

It's not just a question of fuel savings, but also the best timing for trading my current car.

Any car you buy will depreciate quickly because of the mileage. If you have no real reason to trade, get full service and plan to keep the car for 3-4 years and drive it into the ground. The Audi diesel engine will run for for another few years with regular service and maybe some parts to swap out.....get a good local garage who you can get to service and repair car cheaper than Audi, then you sorted.....

Yeah I get it serviced with an indy Audi specialist so the price is reasonable. I think that's what I'll do, hold onto the Audi for a few more years and see how the hybrid/electric tech develops over that time.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

adocholiday wrote: »

Yeah I get it serviced with an indy Audi specialist so the price is reasonable. I think that's what I'll do, hold onto the Audi for a few more years and see how the hybrid/electric tech develops over that time.

I'd also do this, I was in this position of thinking of trading up cars due to milage but dropped the idea because whatever car I end up with is going to be doing high mileage anyway !

So I'm keeping the current diesel and like that keeping it serviced at an indy mechanic and when it finally gives up itd served its purpose.

But nearly 100,000 Kms later in just over a year it's not showing any sign of giving up !

If I were to sell it now it wouldn't be worth a lot

Also if bought a hybrid it wouldn't be worth while and also will depreciate like a brick due to the same reasons above !

biko

JayZeus wrote: »

The OP already said he’s happy to keep it for a good few years as it’s low mileage, paid off etc. You’re not great at paying attention, are you?

As for saying 60km isn’t diesel territory.. you’re not great at maths either.

Don't post in this thread again

Shefwedfan

adocholiday wrote: »

Yeah I get it serviced with an indy Audi specialist so the price is reasonable. I think that's what I'll do, hold onto the Audi for a few more years and see how the hybrid/electric tech develops over that time.

Huge money is getting invested into hybrid/electric at the moment. Give it 12/24 months and it will be a completely different marketplace.

KCross

Haven't really considered a full electric car yet. Not exactly adverse to the idea but don't think it would work well for me. I've no place to plug in at work, I just park at the side of a road and no charging stations anywhere nearby that I know of.

adocholiday wrote: »

Well I'm doing 600km per week. Let's say it's 46 working weeks then accounting for holidays/Bank Holidays etc. that's 27,600km. Add in general driving then on top of that like shop runs, weekends away probably looking at 35-40k km per year. My audi does about 6l for every 100 km. That's about 2,400l of diesel in a year and at 1.40 per litre that's €3,360 in fuel per year roughly.

adocholiday wrote: »

I was thinking of switching both because the Audi in its current state would get me the best trade value and for fuel savings. I know that the difference in fuel would be well lost in monthly repayments, but if I bought a new or almost new car that was giving me good economy I'd keep if for many years so in the long run it would save me money.

If I keep the Audi and drive it for another few years it will depreciate pretty quickly with the mileage I'm putting on it so I'll be effectively starting again when it comes to upgrade.

It's not just a question of fuel savings, but also the best timing for trading my current car.

Rough rule of thumb is to take your current diesel fuel bill and divide it by 4-5 and that is what a full EV will cost you in fuel.

You would be looking at €2500+ in fuel savings per year and any decent current EV will do that commute for you no problem all year round with no need for work charging.

You would of course need the ability to home charge so I assume you have a driveway in front of your house where you can plug in?


So, really the decision is around what you said above.... drive the current diesel into the ground and go EV in a few years time with no trade in value.

Or buy an EV, saving €2500+ in fuel per year plus you will have savings in servicing and possibly tolls as well(do you use tolls daily?). EV's get big discounts on tolls.

You'll have a decent trade-in with the A4 now. In a few years time you wont and you'll have shelled out for the fuel in the meantime.


No right or wrong answer. Its a personal decision. Maybe you dont like the current EV's? Leaf, Ioniq, eGolf would suit. You could pick one of those up for small enough money with your A4 as a trade-in.

Waiting for the next best EV to come in 12-24 months time is somewhat pointless as well as there will always be another better EV a year or two after that.

Personally, for your distance, I'd go for the €2500 yearly fuel savings by getting a cheap 2nd hand EV. Pocket the savings and then trade up to a longer range EV in a few years.... putting €3k and servicing costs into the diesel is wasted money, imo.

Lets say you switch to cheap EV right now and save close to €3k a year (fuel, servicing, tax, tolls) after 3 years you'd have the bones of €10k in your pocket.

What will you have in cash if you keep the diesel....

peposhi

Just another nail in the coffin - not worth it
And yes - full electic is good in your case

Lantus

KCross wrote:

Lets say you switch to cheap EV right now and save close to €3k a year (fuel, servicing, tax, tolls) after 3 years you'd have the bones of €10k in your pocket.

KCross wrote:

What will you have in cash if you keep the diesel....

Well a 120km commute really needs an l40 or an ioniq for range security over 5 years and the ability to do longer journeys.

So op now needs to spend 32k to 39k for an EV.

I would save 400 a month or as best as possible for 2 years to put towards a new car whether EV, petrol or diesel which is roughly 10k or what the op has in cash if he keeps the diesel. To answer your question.

Dealer will give you something for your old car even if its 1500 to 2k plus scrappage deals. That way you limit the need for expensive credit and huge monthly repayments.

Another way look at you current car value and in 2 years on line and can you save more over 2 years or is the car value better? Note that if you can't save more than the equivalent drop in value there is an affordability issue.

There are lots of good reasons to get an EV from the drive to the low emission at point of use but don't fall into the save 2k a year trap because the spend 32 to 40k is not mentioned. That's 500+ a month even on pcp.

KCross

Lantus wrote: »

Well a 120km commute really needs an l40 or an ioniq for range security over 5 years and the ability to do longer journeys.

So op now needs to spend 32k to 39k for an EV.

I would save 400 a month or as best as possible for 2 years to put towards a new car whether EV, petrol or diesel which is roughly 10k or what the op has in cash if he keeps the diesel. To answer your question.

Dealer will give you something for your old car even if its 1500 to 2k plus scrappage deals. That way you limit the need for expensive credit and huge monthly repayments.

Another way look at you current car value and in 2 years on line and can you save more over 2 years or is the car value better? Note that if you can't save more than the equivalent drop in value there is an affordability issue.

There are lots of good reasons to get an EV from the drive to the low emission at point of use but don't fall into the save 2k a year trap because the spend 32 to 40k is not mentioned. That's 500+ a month even on pcp.

I didnt suggest a new EV.
I suggested a cheap secondhand one. A Leaf 30kWh, an eGolf, an Ioniq would all fit the bill and manage that commute all year round. No need for €32k at all. All around or under €20k and he has a decent trade-in against that as well.


The people best suited to EV right now are those doing long commutes. The OP fits the bill perfectly.

You did raise one good point about the need for long journeys.... OP, is this your only car or are you a 2 car household?

adocholiday

Thanks all for the continued responses. We're a 1 car household, and I'm the only driver (so far). In terms of long journeys, other than the commute once per month or so I do a 200km each way trip to see the folks, staying overnight. Maybe 3 or 4 times per year we'd head west for weekends away etc. too but that's generally it for the long trips.

I've been doing some research and right now I'm just not convinced that a full EV is the way to go for me. Yes I can charge the car at home so something like an Ioniq or that would cover the commute, but the tech is still too early days for my liking. When affordable EV's have a range of a few hundred km, and can be charged conveniently and much more quickly then I'll consider one. That's why I thought the hybrid would be an ideal middle ground with (supposedly) some of the benefits of electric driving with the range and convenience of a combustion engine but this is clearly not the case.

I think at this stage given what I've been reading the best thing for me is to stick with the diesel for now and look at the electric/hybrid options in another year or 2 as the tech evolves.

KCross

adocholiday wrote: »

Thanks all for the continued responses. We're a 1 car household, and I'm the only driver (so far). In terms of long journeys, other than the commute once per month or so I do a 200km each way trip to see the folks, staying overnight. Maybe 3 or 4 times per year we'd head west for weekends away etc. too but that's generally it for the long trips.

Being a 1 car house then maybe yes, stick with what you have.

Just bear in mind that sticking around for the tech to evolve means buying new (that will be expensive) or waiting another few years beyond that for it to come down to your price point. It could be a long wait!

Lantus

adocholiday wrote:

I think at this stage given what I've been reading the best thing for me is to stick with the diesel for now and look at the electric/hybrid options in another year or 2 as the tech evolves.

Sounds like a good approach. Time to save plan and research and in a year or two make a much better informed decision. A lot can happen in 2 years.

Shefwedfan

adocholiday wrote: »

Thanks all for the continued responses. We're a 1 car household, and I'm the only driver (so far). In terms of long journeys, other than the commute once per month or so I do a 200km each way trip to see the folks, staying overnight. Maybe 3 or 4 times per year we'd head west for weekends away etc. too but that's generally it for the long trips.

I've been doing some research and right now I'm just not convinced that a full EV is the way to go for me. Yes I can charge the car at home so something like an Ioniq or that would cover the commute, but the tech is still too early days for my liking. When affordable EV's have a range of a few hundred km, and can be charged conveniently and much more quickly then I'll consider one. That's why I thought the hybrid would be an ideal middle ground with (supposedly) some of the benefits of electric driving with the range and convenience of a combustion engine but this is clearly not the case.

I think at this stage given what I've been reading the best thing for me is to stick with the diesel for now and look at the electric/hybrid options in another year or 2 as the tech evolves.

Keep an eye on the electric car forum. A lot is going to change in 2019. Including VW who are making a lot of serious promises and if they stick to their word then electric cars will become very common on the roads......

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

That's pessimistic in my experience. Over 1 year our Leaf cost around 11% what our Civic IMA would have cost to do the same distance. 10k kms, 95%+ charging done at home at night.

But I think we all know you are a super efficient driver, so I'm not surprised you get that!

I think 20-25% is a better average because you have to account for some motorway driving for the Op as well where the EV efficiency will drop.

Its moot anyway, he isnt comfortable with EV right now.

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

But I think we all know you are a super efficient driver, so I'm not surprised you get that!

I think 20-25% is a better average because you have to account for some motorway driving for the Op as well where the EV efficiency will drop.

Its moot anyway, he isnt comfortable with EV right now.

Fair enough, but I would say 5 to 7 times cheaper should be easily attainable.

biko

Bunch of bicker removed
Mike9832 and ELM327 banned from thread

wtawfick

adocholiday wrote: »

Well I'm doing 600km per week. Let's say it's 46 working weeks then accounting for holidays/Bank Holidays etc. that's 27,600km. Add in general driving then on top of that like shop runs, weekends away probably looking at 35-40k km per year. My audi does about 6l for every 100 km. That's about 2,400l of diesel in a year and at 1.40 per litre that's €3,360 in fuel per year roughly.

You mentioned your Audi does 6L per 100km. My wife drives a 2014 Prius + (the 7 seater prius). It does 6L per 100 km (real life figures, all city driving). On the motorway, it does between 7 to 7.5L per 100km.
I personally drive a 2016 1.5L diesel. I get similar 6L/100km in the city and around 4.5 to 5L/100km on motorway depending on how I drive.
I personally wouldn't take the hybrid on a motorway, unless I had to (especially that I have the diesel option).
In your case switching to a hybrid wouldn't make much sense. Even if you still manage to tease out 6L/100km out of a hybrid on the motorway, you'll still be paying around 7 to 8 cent extra per litre for the petrol.

Disclaimer: These figures are based on a 141 hybrid (which we bought new, with no change in efficiency from the till now). I have no idea how efficient a 191 hybrid would be in real life.

zilog_jones

The Prius+ is old tech at this stage, the current generation Toyota hybrids will do 60+ MPG at motorway speeds. Maintenance costs will definitely be lower than a modern diesel. But still overall maybe hard to justify the cost of changing to a hybrid as the savings in running costs won't be massive.

Maybe worth checking one out to see if you like them, I certainly could never go back to a manual diesel in terms of refinement. Some people aren't fans of the eCVT transmissions (planetary gearset) but I find they're adequately responsive and pretty much do what you tell them.