PAYE Modernisation

Seve OB

So anyone else having fun with this?

It's going to be a bit messy for some companies, mainly anyone running weekly & fortnightly payrolls, especially those not salaried and who are paying in arrears. Monthly salaries look like they won't see to much trouble to implement.

Overall, though it looks like good progress, especially from an employees point of view

thesimpsons

not sure what fun you could be having with this? I've logged the current employees as requested by Revenue and tidied up a few P45s for seasonal workers. Waiting now till January to see how it works but if its similiar to the way RCT approval works, it shouldn't cause any delays.

I can see it as a great improvement for employees who can now see that their taxes/prsi/etc are being paid over correctly to revenue on a uptodate basis. Unfortunately, there are still way too many employees who know very little about tax and how it works, what they entitled to, how to create their own account in revenue, etc. Maybe if there was an annual incentive to do a tax return, maybe a guaranteed few euro back in your taxes each year, then more would engage with Revenue and educate themselves. I'm sick of telling people to do a tax return, to take charge and understand tax. Its actually very simple for most PAYE workers, but people still have a big mystified air towards it.

seamus

I imagine this is presenting the most trouble for companies who've been burying their heads in the sand and resisting any movement towards electronic payroll. I've still heard of small businesses providing handwritten payslips, P45s and weekly pay packets with cash in them.

I mean, I can understand how a very small business with tight margins can operate an "if it ain't broke" policy, but payment by bank transfer has been standard for 20 years, and payslips aren't even printed any more, most businesses have been emailing them for the best part of a decade. If the PAYE changes are a massive upset for a business, then it can only be because they're way behind the times.

Seve OB

I agree

there is another thread I was reading the other day and it was obvious to me the employer has had to cop on and start doing things right from now on...… at the same time, was screwing over the employee as he had being paying a net wage all along with no payroll and was trying to screw the employee for the back tax, which he never paid over on their behalf!

thesimpsons

if the modernisation achieves this, it will be major progress. A decent payroll package can be bought for just over 100e (possibly cheaper even), takes minutes to learn and everything is open and clear.

What Revenue have not pushed enough is employees responsibility to manage their own RPNs. Especially if they change jobs or have multiple employments with the same employer.
January is going to see may upset employees who receive 'Zero Value' RPNs. These can occur for a number of reasons, which basically boil down to all their allowance being with another employer, or another employment with the same employer. In these cases it is up the the employee on login into myAccount/ROS and deleted unwanted RPNs or split their allowances as required between different RPNs.

If an employee's previous employer has not uploaded a submission with a leave date, the old employer's RPN will still have all the allowances allocated to it. A RPN will always be issued by Revenue when a new RPN is requested. (Unless it is the employees first Irish employment.) So, in the new company the employee will switch from Emergency Tax to a RPN with Zero Values. Effectively half their pay will go as tax. If an employer fails to use the RPN as supplied by Revenue it can result in a €4k fine per employee. The RPN values used in the payment are uploaded back to Revenue in each submission and automated warnings occur if they are wrong/out of date. Pick up enough warnings and Revenue will take further action...

Seve OB

Has anyone got weekly payroll running which will result in a 51 week year this year?
how are you going to operate it?

lashes34

Seve OB wrote: »

Has anyone got weekly payroll running which will result in a 51 week year this year?
how are you going to operate it?

Thats not possible. What day do you pay?

Seve OB

lashes34 wrote: »

Thats not possible. What day do you pay?

with PAYE Modernisation it is very possible and lots of companies are finding themselves in this situation.

Our week ends on a Sunday and payroll is currently generated with that date. However payment is not made till the following Friday.

Week 52 this year is 30th December, but payment will be Friday 4th.

Any payments made in January under PAYE Modernisation will be considered part of your January return (essentially your Jan P30). So payment made to staff on 4th January will be week 1 of 2019.

Failing that, I could ignore PAYE Modernisation for this weeks payment and just stick it in as week 52 of 2018. However, that would mean Week 1 of 2019 will not be paid until the following week, 11th January. That will mean 51 weeks in 2019.

wasnotwas

I'm in the same boat! Processing December's payroll in January for payment on the 7th. Do you know of any possible work-arounds for this? Can you override the PMod in any way, for period 12 only?

There is nothing new with Pay Date requirements, except for some changes in PRSI legislation. When money is earned is irreverent to Revenue, they if it paid on the 4th of January then it submitted as Week 1 of 2019.
If the employees have worked for all 52 weeks in 2018, then you can give them the missing extra Insurable Week. With the same logic you could give them the extra tax allowances, if you don't give them Revenue will eventually issue them with a tax refund.

Seve OB

I was thinking of a simple solution of giving the employees a holiday week in week 51.
alternatively I use Micropay and it will allow me to give 2 weeks credits/deductions/insurances rather than a holiday period. Same thing really, but I'm not sure which would be the better option to run with.

I was advised to ring the revenue and explain the situation. which I did. TBH I really don't think yer one understood the whole thing at all. But what she did tell me was that I should not give them the double weeks credits etc. She seemed more concerned with employees who may be on a week 1 basis than any who are on cumulative.

She told me they can apply for a P21 statement when I give them their P60's

Then I had the idea of splitting week 51 into 2. so for the first 4 days of the week, make that week 51 and for the last 3 days of the week, make that week 52. im not even sure if the payroll will allow me to do that. but revenue lady had no problem if I did it that way, told me it was a company decision.

other option Ive been considering is to just pay everyone a small gross amount €50 or so, in week 52 so that they get their credits/cut off cumulative for the 52 weeks. I can then gross deduct the €50 from them in week 1. Cheques can be written on 31st December to comply. Or I could just send a pay file on the 3rd or 4th Jan. it won't be in the 2019 payroll so won't form part of the January return

There is no real difference between giving them two weeks tax credits and doing two (smaller) payroll runs. A Holiday Period effectively just gives them the two weeks (current week plus the next week). If using 'Holidays' just be careful it does not say Holiday Pay/Periods on the payslips, if they are not actually getting any. The Labour Court will go by what it printed on the payslip...

As you say yourself Revenue's front line staff don't really know...

What they are fussy about is the actual Pay Date, if you get audited. If they are paid in in 2018 = old system, paid in 2019 = new system.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/paye-modernisation/employer-obligations-from-1-january-2019/payroll-submissions.aspx

Definition of ‘Pay Date’
Pay and deductions must be reported by you to Revenue on or before the date the employees are paid.

‘Date paid’ in the context of PAYE modernisation is defined as the date on which the funds are made available. These dates can be different dependant on how you pay the employee. If you pay the employee by:

cash it is the date the cash is given to the employee
cheque it will be the date on the cheque
bank transfer it is the date which the funds are scheduled to be made available in the individual’s bank account.
Where a payday falls on a non- bank working day and employee payments are due, Revenue regards that day as payday. This occurs provided the funds are made available to the employee on the previous bank working day.

lashes34

Seve OB wrote: »

with PAYE Modernisation it is very possible and lots of companies are finding themselves in this situation.

Our week ends on a Sunday and payroll is currently generated with that date. However payment is not made till the following Friday.

Week 52 this year is 30th December, but payment will be Friday 4th.

Ours is the exact same and that will be and always has been week 1, PAYE Modernisation doesnt change anything. You have been processing it incorrectly up to now.

Id chance ringing again and you might get luckier with who you speak to. Or there is an email for PMod might work better to have it in writing and it'll give them a chance to double check rather than giving info over the phone that might not be correct. I emailed them and the responce was fairly quick.

Seve OB

lashes34 wrote: »

Ours is the exact same and that will be and always has been week 1, PAYE Modernisation doesnt change anything. You have been processing it incorrectly up to now.

Id chance ringing again and you might get luckier with who you speak to. Or there is an email for PMod might work better to have it in writing and it'll give them a chance to double check rather than giving info over the phone that might not be correct. I emailed them and the responce was fairly quick.

So yours is the same.
What are you going to do?

We may have being doing it wrong all along but it is what inherited. I'm an account, not a payroll clerk. So from an accounting point of view, what I inherited made sense. Week ends on Sunday, payroll run is dated the Sunday. Payment follows. If payment is not made till the following month due to cut off, then it sits on the balance sheet till its paid. It has never been brought up as any kind of issue from any of the 3 different audit companies we have used and probably 15+ audit seniors and partners.

I've realised now with modernisation that it's something I need to fix and make sure we do things correctly going forward.

I watched an interesting video by the revenue. They state they aren't payroll clerks and learnt a lot in consultation process. Neither are they accountants. I guess at the end if the day it is a bit like VAT being calculated on a cash receipts basis against an accruals basis.

lashes34

We're the same as in our week ends on Sunday and we pay the following Friday but our week 52 will be paid on the 28th. Week 1 is 4th January.

At the iPass budget update day they asked this question and lots of people in the room had the same problem as you. Helena from iPass suggested what you said to seperate last payment into two. There was another option which I can't remember. Wasn't really paying attention to that part as I knew we were ok. Do you have iPass membership to call them and ask?

Seve OB

lashes34 wrote: »

We're the same as in our week ends on Sunday and we pay the following Friday but our week 52 will be paid on the 28th. Week 1 is 4th January.

At the iPass budget update day they asked this question and lots of people in the room had the same problem as you. Helena from iPass suggested what you said to seperate last payment into two. There was another option which I can't remember. Wasn't really paying attention to that part as I knew we were ok. Do you have iPass membership to call them and ask?

Actually just recently signed up to do their payroll technician course. I never even thought to ask them. So I have a student membership. It might not qualify, but I've nothing to loose by dropping them an email and asking. Thanks for that.

For 2019 I will be changing our payroll dates. Week 1 will be the 4th January but it will be payment for weeks work ending 30th December

lashes34

They won't give advice by email, you will have to call them.

Kewreeuss

Seve OB,
how did you sort out wk 52 in the end?
Did you split the hours worked in wk 51 into 51 and 52 and paid both weeks today? So everyone gets their 52 weeks credits?
I understand that hours worked till Sunday 30 you are paying as week 1 on 4th.
thanks, I just came across this thread now.

lashes34

Anyone else having trouble with connecting their software to ROS?

Stratvs

lashes34 wrote: »

Anyone else having trouble with connecting their software to ROS?

It all went easily here. Imported ROS digital cert into the software, entered the ROS login password and after that it connected seamlessly in the background to get RPNs. Are you getting a particular error message ?

lashes34

Its our software provider, their support leaves a lot to be desired. Connection fails and we have to pay 1200+ employees on Friday. Great fun it will be tomorrow.

Seve OB

Kewreeuss wrote: »

Seve OB,
how did you sort out wk 52 in the end?
Did you split the hours worked in wk 51 into 51 and 52 and paid both weeks today? So everyone gets their 52 weeks credits?
I understand that hours worked till Sunday 30 you are paying as week 1 on 4th.
thanks, I just came across this thread now.

I've just processed week 1
didn't bother trying to muck around with anything.

I use sage payroll, I had closed off week 51 status EOP. I was able then to just set up a 2019 payroll. No issues connecting to ROS RPNs etc. it all went pretty smoothly in fairness.

So i'm not sure what is going to happen with 2018 payroll now as in processing p35 without processing a week 52. but i'll worry about that in a week or 2

thesimpsons

Seve OB - I had a quick look around payroll system this morning with a view to processing on Thurs next. I've the digital cert linked to payroll software so it appears to be as simple as - request RPNs, download the info, enter pay amounts, bingo. Is that it ?

and each week you just request new RPNs before you enter the pay ?

thanks

Seve OB

thesimpsons wrote: »

Seve OB - I had a quick look around payroll system this morning with a view to processing on Thurs next. I've the digital cert linked to payroll software so it appears to be as simple as - request RPNs, download the info, enter pay amounts, bingo. Is that it ?

and each week you just request new RPNs before you enter the pay ?

thanks

Pretty much. Then you have to click another button after processing to send the payment details back to the revenue.
Are you using sage? I went to their PAYE modernisation course. I can scan in the course notes and email to you.

lashes34

When ye say Sage, is it Micropay you are using?

thesimpsons

I'm using Collsoft software but couldnt find their help notes online this morning. Have used Sage in past so familiar with it. It can't be too difficult I'm sure. I went to the Revenue's seminar but but was more of a general Q&A.

Seve OB

lashes34 wrote: »

When ye say Sage, is it Micropay you are using?

Yes.
I think they are just calling it sage payroll from now on.

wally1990

How did people fair out today?

We run payroll for in excess of 600 companies so everyday is pay day.

Our ****ing software after 15 PSR submissions starting spiting out error messages.

Eventually got hold of our provider who blamed revenue

Luckily enough the PSRs( about 60 in total) were received on ROS even though our software was advising the opposite.

Awaiting the new patch/update from them tomorrow.

Bolitar

Not a good day here. I couldn't get the RPN today (2nd Jan). I used sage micropay and the digital cert for ROS and it said there was problem with the cert. Can't remember the exact wording but wondered was it because I am an agent (accountants office) and not the employer. I've always done their payroll though. Waiting call back from micropay. Does anybody know?

lashes34

We are having problems connecting our certs too. Waiting on our software provider to figure it out. Its painful. Have to pay and submit on Friday.

Bolitar

lashes34 wrote: »

We are having problems connecting our certs too. Waiting on our software provider to figure it out. Its painful. Have to pay and submit on Friday.

Oh so it is most likely the software providers fault then... ? Update when ya get news, I ve payroll to do Friday as well.

lashes34

Yes its the software providor. They got it working today on a test PC using Windows 10 so looking to get that installed first thing and hopefully get the file off early tomorrow. We have 2 payrolls, about 1100 people, cant get RPNs in because of the connection issue, were told to manually add them. Its a pain in the hole

Sunny Dayz

Took the best part of an hour to try and find where the bloody digital cert is saved on my pc! Once I found it, the payroll software connected fine to get RPN’s.

Many people finding errors with RPNs? So far I’m finding proprietary directors with no earned income tax credits allocated to them and employees missing from the RPNs, some who were included on the submitted employee lists and others commenced after the list submission but before the end of 2018.

Bolitar

lashes34 wrote: »

Yes its the software providor. They got it working today on a test PC using Windows 10 so looking to get that installed first thing and hopefully get the file off early tomorrow. We have 2 payrolls, about 1100 people, cant get RPNs in because of the connection issue, were told to manually add them. Its a pain in the hole

I am glad it is not our fault, my payrolls are for a fraction of that. You poor thing! Manually adding USC is painstaking, tax bits not so bad. The other option would be to zero each deduction and let the cumulative sort it out the next time, for those not on week 1. What software do you use?

Bolitar

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Took the best part of an hour to try and find where the bloody digital cert is saved on my pc! Once I found it, the payroll software connected fine to get RPN’s.

Many people finding errors with RPNs? So far I’m finding proprietary directors with no earned income tax credits allocated to them and employees missing from the RPNs, some who were included on the submitted employee lists and others commenced after the list submission but before the end of 2018.

What software did you use? Regarding the directors they probably need to claim the tax credit through revenue my account. No reason for missing employees if their PPSN match . Glad to see more fun awaits after I get those RPNs

ismat

Bolitar wrote: »

Not a good day here. I couldn't get the RPN today (2nd Jan). I used sage micropay and the digital cert for ROS and it said there was problem with the cert. Can't remember the exact wording but wondered was it because I am an agent (accountants office) and not the employer. I've always done their payroll though. Waiting call back from micropay. Does anybody know?

I had that problem earlier. What had happened was that for some reason our TAIN had not copied across from 2018 to the 2019 file. Go to Company/payroll and tax agent details and make sure info is in there.

Bolitar

ismat wrote: »

I had that problem earlier. What had happened was that for some reason our TAIN had not copied across from 2018 to the 2019 file. Go to Company/payroll and tax agent details and make sure info is in there.

I don't think the TAIN was ever entered, I never noticed it in previous years. So it could be something as simple as that....I will let ye know, talking about micropay ya?

ismat

Bolitar wrote: »

I don't think the TAIN was ever entered, I never noticed it in previous years. So it could be something as simple as that....I will let ye know, talking about micropay ya?

Yeah micropayThat’s the problem then. I called ros as to why that one wouldn’t work as we probably ran 60 payrolls with no problem before that. TAIN was in for all of these. The guy on the help desk suggested this straight away so I’d say it’s a common enough problem

Bolitar

A quick note to say entering the TAIN worked for me, I have my first RPN downloaded, cheers guys.

Error 1011, is a missing TAIN number or the Certificate does not have the required access rights to payroll functions on ROS. Tax Agent Numbers were never used in payrolls before. So where required, must be entered.

If the RPNs are wrong, it is the employee's responsibility to have them corrected. Revenue expects employees on log on to MyAccount or ROS, via the apps or web and amend their own RPNs!! Revenue can fine employers 4K per employee for changing them. The RPN information is sent back to Revenue in each Payroll Submission, so they know if modified.

If your payroll software works on a Standard PC, but does not work on your Network/Citrix/Thermal Server/VM etc. Then is a problem with one or more of your system's Access Rights, User Profile type, Anti Virus or Firewall etc etc. It will be up to the IT staff who manage the running of your systems to find and fix the issue(s). If they cannot fix it then the payroll will have to be run on the standard PC.

BTW. TAIN Numbers are only required by Tax Agents, such as accountants and payroll bureaus etc

mogilvie

We're a payroll software provider. The most common certificate related issues we see are:

Operation timed out: typically means that the Revenue ROS servers are busy. They increased the wait time from 60 to 90 seconds recently.

Cert is not active: Typically means that the ROS cert has never been used before. To clear this error you need to log into the ROS portal using this certificate in order to activate it.

Could not open cert: typically means that the ROS cert password is incorrect. Check that your caps lock is not on, and that the password is correct. You can check the password on the cert in ROS under the admin tab. Look at the cert row and click on the padlock icon in the System Password column.

Unauthorised request: Invalid ROS Digital Certificate provided. Wrong cert.

Invalid format Employer Registration Number: Typically means that the Employer Registration Number doesn't have the correct amount of numbers and letters. It should be 7 numbers, followed by 1 or 2 letters. The two end letters are a checksum, so the whole combination needs to be correct.

Unauthorised request: Employer Registration Number and ROS Digital Certificate must be linked. Typically means that the supplied revenue registration number doesn't match the company that the digital certificate is authorised to access.

No active link between Agent TAIN and Employer Registration Number: typically means that the agent digital certificate provided doesn't have permissions to view this company. Check that the Employer Registration Number is correct and that the agent TAIN is correct.

We would recommend everyone to create sub-user certs, and not just give your admin cert to your payroll provider.

Kewreeuss

The problem with jumping from wk 51 to wk 1, without running wk 52 is that the p60 will show 51 insurance weeks.
Anyone out there going into each employee record and increasing the insurance weeks to 2 for wk 51?

Seve OB

Kewreeuss wrote: »

The problem with jumping from wk 51 to wk 1, without running wk 52 is that the p60 will show 51 insurance weeks.
Anyone out there going into each employee record and increasing the insurance weeks to 2 for wk 51?

I didn't bother anyway.
I just left the payroll at EOP after week 51.
Did the p35 yesterday and it uploaded fine to ROS.
Haven't sent the P60s yet, I'll do them next week.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

Seve OB wrote: »

I didn't bother anyway.
I just left the payroll at EOP after week 51.
Did the p35 yesterday and it uploaded fine to ROS.
Haven't sent the P60s yet, I'll do them next week.

Surely this will be source of future complaints?

Kewreeuss

Ohhh yes!

Happy4all

Seve OB wrote: »

I didn't bother anyway.
I just left the payroll at EOP after week 51.
Did the p35 yesterday and it uploaded fine to ROS.
Haven't sent the P60s yet, I'll do them next week.

Surely people will be entitled to have 52 weeks prsi contributions for 2018?

Thegalwayman

So as P60s aren't received anymore I used my last payslip totals for total pay and tax paid to do a P21 statement was expecting refund in the order of 2k having married (lower salary) early in the year but got hit with underpayment of 1k? I must've entered details incorrectly. Annoying as went to revenue office to talk to someone about end of year taxes but the receptionist insisted on taking in the slips and accessible spouse form and "sending it upstairs" Inefficient effieciency

Buddy97mm

Thegalwayman wrote:

So as P60s aren't received anymore I used my last payslip totals for total pay and tax paid to do a P21 statement was expecting refund in the order of 2k having married (lower salary) early in the year but got hit with underpayment of 1k? I must've entered details incorrectly. Annoying as went to revenue office to talk to someone about end of year taxes but the receptionist insisted on taking in the slips and accessible spouse form and "sending it upstairs" Inefficient effieciency

So you input wrong details and now blame someone else's "inefficiency"?

relax carry on

Thegalwayman wrote: »

So as P60s aren't received anymore I used my last payslip totals for total pay and tax paid to do a P21 statement was expecting refund in the order of 2k having married (lower salary) early in the year but got hit with underpayment of 1k? I must've entered details incorrectly. Annoying as went to revenue office to talk to someone about end of year taxes but the receptionist insisted on taking in the slips and accessible spouse form and "sending it upstairs" Inefficient effieciency

The 2018 p60's are due to be issued by your employer as the old regs still apply to 2018.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/becoming-an-employer-and-ongoing-obligations/transitional-arrangements/p35-and-p60-2018.aspx

It's one of the busiest times of the year for Revenue in normal circumstances but far more so with PMOD. I'm afraid you'll just have to wait.

Thegalwayman

Buddy97mm wrote: »

So you input wrong details and now blame someone else's "inefficiency"?

I’m assuming wrong details were entered as I wouldn’t expect my payroll dept in a large company to deduct the wrong tax. Getting no postal record of a potential underpayment and having to check revenue to see if they’ve updated is a PITA