Grand Hotel in Wicklow to be used as direct provision centre

recedite

Wicklow TD John Brady and others discuss the pros and cons of converting the only hotel in the town into a direct provision centre, housing 100 or so asylum seekers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LAuuBfYqvY&feature=youtu.be

Redneck Culchie

Simon Harris nor the other Fine Gael chap or anyone from Fine Gael bothered to attend from the sounds of things.

recedite

No.
Mind you, have a look at Sinn Fein policy before patting Deputy Brady on the back. He is trying to ride two horses at the same time here.
But whatever brings in the most votes...

Wheeliebin30

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

Simon Harris nor the other Fine Gael chap or anyone from Fine Gael bothered to attend from the sounds of things.

Harris is at this moment trying to finalise the abortion legislation.

Cop on ffs

smelly sock

recedite wrote: »

Wicklow TD John Brady and others discuss the pros and cons of converting the only hotel in the town into a direct provision centre, housing 100 or so asylum seekers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LAuuBfYqvY&feature=youtu.be

May aswell. Its a dump.

Redneck Culchie

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Harris is at this moment trying to finalise the abortion legislation.

Cop on ffs

What are you his secretary, why so defensive ? Harris is a little weasel anyway.

Redneck Culchie

recedite wrote: »

No.
Mind you, have a look at Sinn Fein policy before patting Deputy Brady on the back. He is trying to ride two horses at the same time here.
But whatever brings in the most votes...

I wouldn't have time for him or any of these TDs.

2011

Mod note: Please keep this discussion civil.

2011

The jury is out for me on this one.

My first thoughts are that we should also consider that many of these people have been through very traumatic experiences and deserve compassion. That is not to suggest that I believe that this is the best solution, it is just a statement of fact.

I doubt that the hotel was performing so well that it could have a significant impact on the local economy / tourism. I am sure that those that want to stay in the area will be able to find alternatives easily enough, a quick Google and I found this alternative.

Despite what has been suggested I believe that an increase of less than 1% in the population of the town could only have a negligible impact on the local services.

What do people see as a better alternative?
I would be interested in knowing what people's objections to this are.

The Bishop Basher

I feel sorry for the people living in Wicklow.

Especially those who’ve bought there recently.

The answer for me is fairly straightforward..

Send these people back to the first country they landed in and where they legally should have claimed asylum.

The Bishop Basher

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Harris is at this moment trying to finalise the abortion legislation.

Cop on ffs

Harris is doing no such thing..

He has a team of very well paid civil servants who do the legislation writing for him..

A troubling state of affairs when the local inhabitants are left out of discourse. Here in Clare, the village of Lisdoonvarna was lumped with over 100 asylum seekers. They were moved lock and stock into a disused hotel despite vocal protests. Would the powerbrokers residing in a large urban area like south Dublin tolerate refugees on their doorstep? Not on your nelly, let's bundle them into a small village and damage the cultural fabric irrevocably.

recedite

2011 wrote: »

My first thoughts are that we should also consider that many of these people have been through very traumatic experiences and deserve compassion. That is not to suggest that I believe that this is the best solution, it is just a statement of fact.

A large percentage of the worlds population lives on 2 or 3 dollars a day. That is billions of people. For those people, the idea that they could come to Ireland and live in a plush hotel with all their needs provided for (for the rest of their lives) is like a dream come true. The reality is that its a very boring existence, but they will find that out afterwards.


What is the point of us taking in a few thousand of them, or even a few million? It's still only a tiny proportion of what is out there.
We could collapse the entire social services and tourist industries of this country and it still would not make even a tiny dent in the overall world situation.

The Grand Hotel is a well-known hotel that caters for a lot of tourists, especially over the summer months.
In a statement, the Department of Justice said that around 100 people - made up of families and single people - would be accommodated at the hotel, which has just 33 bedrooms.
The contract is for a fixed-term of one year and residents will be from a variety of countries, including Nigeria, Pakistan and the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
The Department of Justice did not disclose how much it is paying to lease the property.
The hotel will be a huge loss to the local area, according to local Fianna F TD Pat Casey.
"It probably will now be the only county town in the country that will not have an operating hotel and that is disappointing," he said.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1112/1010343-hotel-provision-centres/


These countries are not at war. They are corrupt. Nigeria has a huge wealth of oil and mineral resources.
Check out these guys.

2011

recedite wrote: »

A large percentage of the worlds population lives on 2 or 3 dollars a day. That is billions of people. For those people, the idea that they could come to Ireland and live in a plush hotel with all their needs provided for (for the rest of their lives) is like a dream come true. The reality is that its a very boring existence, but they will find that out afterwards.


What is the point of us taking in a few thousand of them, or even a few million? It's still only a tiny proportion of what is out there.
We could collapse the entire social services and tourist industries of this country and it still would not make even a tiny dent in the overall world situation.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1112/1010343-hotel-provision-centres/


These countries are not at war. They are corrupt. Nigeria has a huge wealth of oil and mineral resources.
Check out these guys.

Given that the current government policy for asylum seekers is what it is what is your issue with the Grand Hotel being used for direct provision?

recedite

My issue is I don't agree with it.


I accept that the owner of the hotel personally stands to make more money running it as a DP centre than as a tourist hotel, especially during the winter.


But the difference between tourists and asylum seekers is that one brings money and foreign earnings into the country and the county, whereas the other brings costs, and a drain on local services.

2011

Deleted User wrote: »

Here in Clare, the village of Lisdoonvarna was lumped with over 100 asylum seekers.

Not really comparable.
Lisdoonvarna has a population of around 750 people (according to my quick Google) so the addition 100 asylum seekers is an increase of over 13%. It would be compriable if Lisdoonvarna had been “lumped” with 7 or 8 asylum seekers in which case I doubt you would mind so much.

2011

recedite wrote: »

My issue is I don't agree with it.

I understand, but you have not answered my question.

I accept that the owner of the hotel personally stands to make more money running it as a DP centre than as a tourist hotel, especially during the winter.

Yes, I would imagine that this is quite lucrative but that has nothing to do with whether this was the correct decision or not.

But the difference between tourists and asylum seekers is that one brings money and foreign earnings into the country and the county, whereas the other brings costs, and a drain on local services.

Agreed, tourists spend money which is good for everyone. However I don’t think they will have an issue finding local accommodation. I also doubt that many of them stayed in the hotel in the first place.

Please describe the “drain on local services” that you see this tiny increase in the population of the town having. Remember we are talking about an increase of less than 1%.
Which services? How will this impact locals?

Baybay

2011 wrote: »

I doubt that the hotel was performing so well that it could have a significant impact on the local economy / tourism. I am sure that those that want to stay in the area will be able to find alternatives easily enough, a quick Google and I found this alternative.


What do people see as a better alternative?
I would be interested in knowing what people's objections to this are.

While Wicklow town may have B&B options for those who wish to stay, The Grand is the only operating hotel in the county town.
It hosts weddings & other functions whose guests will no longer be able to overnight on the premises although I believe functions are expected to continue as normal.
As the town’s hotel, it also hosts things like craft fairs, funeral dinners, bingo nights, cabaret/entertainment nights, dinner dances & various groups & societies use the meeting rooms. I’m sure there are plenty more but in short, the hotel provides a level of service to townspeople & beyond. It was, unlike some other hotels mentioned, in daily use when the decision to use it as a DP facility was taken.

In state ownership, the town has a disused hospital which, with minimal spend, should surely be able to offer more space & general living facilities to the refugees than confining three or four people to hotel bedrooms designed for overnight stays rather than ongoing living & which have no cooking or laundry facilities.

drake70

Grand Hotel management hits out at “negative noise” protests against DPC (article from Wicklownews.net)

http://wicklownews.net/2018/11/grand-hotel-management-hits-out-at-negative-noise-protests-against-dpc/

Baybay

2011 wrote: »

Please describe the “drain on local services” that you see this tiny increase in the population of the town having.
Which services? How will this impact locals?

The most likely I think will be access to doctors. The lovely new health centre is a fair walk outside town. Westmount, in town, already struggles with high patient numbers.

VeryTerry

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A troubling state of affairs when the local inhabitants are left out of discourse. Here in Clare, the village of Lisdoonvarna was lumped with over 100 asylum seekers. They were moved lock and stock into a disused hotel despite vocal protests. Would the powerbrokers residing in a large urban area like south Dublin tolerate refugees on their doorstep? Not on your nelly, let's bundle them into a small village and damage the cultural fabric irrevocably.

There has been a good few centres in South Dublin. Including in places like Templeogue and Stillorgan. And there's more in Dublin than everywhere else combined.

Strawberry1975

What about the homeless in Ireland nothing about them would it not be better to get our own house in order first
Direct Provision

recedite

drake70 wrote: »

Grand Hotel management hits out at “negative noise” protests against DPC (article from Wicklownews.net)

http://wicklownews.net/2018/11/grand-hotel-management-hits-out-at-negative-noise-protests-against-dpc/

“I personally am not prepared to invest further sums, invest management time and continue to lose money relying on the local community to any great extent. Hence our interest in serving the Department of Justice.

He is certainly giving "a big two fingers" to the locals.
Now that he is sucking on the teat of the Irish taxpayer, he just doesn't care about Wicklow.

listermint

Id imagine most of the people looking for this not to happen are in that hotel weekly buying food in the restaurant, booking family functions and drinking in the bar twice a week. Booking holidays etc

Would that be accurate? or would be more accurate to say your rarely in there and the hotel is not financially viable in its current form.


utter waffle attacking the owners of the place.

recedite

They had a nice a carvery there alright, and music sessions at the weekends.
But from now on I'll be down at the bridge, where I can keep an eye on Sammy the Seal while I'm eating. There's no finer fella in Wickla than Sammy, we should elect him instead of the politicians we have now.

drake70

listermint wrote: »

Id imagine most of the people looking for this not to happen are in that hotel weekly buying food in the restaurant, booking family functions and drinking in the bar twice a week. Booking holidays etc

Would that be accurate? or would be more accurate to say your rarely in there and the hotel is not financially viable in its current form.


utter waffle attacking the owners of the place.

I'd say most of these people never darken the door of the place.

I haven't been in there for years, but I don't live in or near the town.

Have been to many a good wedding there over the years though.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

Id imagine most of the people looking for this not to happen are in that hotel weekly buying food in the restaurant, booking family functions and drinking in the bar twice a week. Booking holidays etc

Would that be accurate? or would be more accurate to say your rarely in there and the hotel is not financially viable in its current form.

That's a fair point...

listermint wrote: »

utter waffle attacking the owners of the place.

...but I don't think this is.

I walk by the place every day on my way to work. I've seen the amount money they've put into place, how much they've tidied it up (inside and outside). I understand that the owner needs to recoup his investment, but after reading his response (somebody posted that above), it's quite obvious the owner does not give a fiddler's about anyone in the town, anyone accommodated in the hotel and anyone who works in the hotel. All he cares is that he makes some money, no matter what expense (financial or otherwise) to anyone else.

Absolutely attack the owner of the place. It was his choice, both to invest in the hotel in the first place and to allow direct provision.

2011

Baybay wrote: »

While Wicklow town may have B&B options for those who wish to stay

Yes, so that solves the accommodation problem.

It hosts weddings & other functions whose guests will no longer be able to overnight on the premises although I believe functions are expected to continue as normal.

As weddings are so profitable it is clear that the Grand Hotel has not hosted many in recent times or a direct provision centre would not be so appealing to the owners.

I’m sure there are plenty more

That is just it, there are.

It was, unlike some other hotels mentioned, in daily use when the decision to use it as a DP facility was taken.

Clearly not enough demand for it though, hence the decision.

In state ownership, the town has a disused hospital which, with minimal spend, should surely be able to offer more space & general living facilities to the refugees than confining three or four people to hotel bedrooms designed for overnight stays rather than ongoing living & which have no cooking or laundry facilities.

I am not familiar with the building in question but my understanding that it has been vacant for sometime. Have you any idea what this "minimal spend" would cost?
Would you be happy living in this building for a number of years? Would you like you children to live in this building or would you prefer the to live in the Grand Hotel?

Baybay wrote: »

The most likely I think will be access to doctors. The lovely new health centre is a fair walk outside town. Westmount, in town, already struggles with high patient numbers.

I agree that there is health system in Ireland is in crises but I don't think that such a minimal increase to the population would make an appreciable difference.
If the old hospital building is in the condition that I think it is in residents would need a doctor a lot more than if they were in accommodation that is fit for purpose.

recedite wrote: »

He is certainly giving "a big two fingers" to the locals.
Now that he is sucking on the teat of the Irish taxpayer, he just doesn't care about Wicklow.

You could say that or you could describe it as a sensible business decision.

Jimjay

@2011

I ate in the Grand about once a week (bar) and in the restaurant once a month if possible and tried to drum up a few friends to join us to try and support the new owners. I agree it was failry quiet but my objection is this.

If the owner didnt think it could work as a hotel then why did they buy it about a year ago?

Why did the owner think that after only running the place for a couple of months he had given it his best shot at making the business viable? (apparently they applied to be a direct provision centre jast January)

Wouldnt a new hotel owner have an idea that it will take a couple of years to develop the new business into a profit?

The answer to above is non of that was his intention. The owners are pretty much a vulture fund that bought the place cheap from administrators with the intention of making a quick buck. They had every intention from the start to do this and have done the same to other hotels.

And in addition to that they ran a wedding fair in the summer and sold wedding packages including rooms while the owner knew all along they would never honour the bookings.

recedite

2011 wrote: »

You could say that or you could describe it as a sensible business decision.

It is a sensible business decision for him personally.
But how do the economics of this asylum industry pan out for everybody else? For the town, or the county, or the whole country?

Its like a guy cutting off a piece of his own thigh, grilling it, and serving it up to himself as a striploin steak.
"mmm... tasty, why didn't I think of this before. I can keep doing this forever and I'll never have to work or go to the shops again"

.

2011

recedite wrote: »

It is a sensible business decision for him personally.

Yes, that was my point. Most people in this position would do the same thing regardless of what they tell you.

But how do the economics of this asylum industry pan out for everybody else? For the town, or the county, or the whole country?

Very costly from an economic perspective.
What about from a humanitarian perspective?

Its like a guy cutting off a piece of his own thigh, grilling it, and serving it up to himself as a striploin steak.
"mmm... tasty, why didn't I think of this before. I can keep doing this forever and I'll never have to work or go to the shops again"

Not from the hotel owner or dare I say it from asylum seeker’s point of view.
Or do they not count?

antietam1

recedite wrote: »

A large percentage of the worlds population lives on 2 or 3 dollars a day. That is billions of people. For those people, the idea that they could come to Ireland and live in a plush hotel with all their needs provided for (for the rest of their lives) is like a dream come true. The reality is that its a very boring existence, but they will find that out afterwards.


What is the point of us taking in a few thousand of them, or even a few million? It's still only a tiny proportion of what is out there.
We could collapse the entire social services and tourist industries of this country and it still would not make even a tiny dent in the overall world situation.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1112/1010343-hotel-provision-centres/


These countries are not at war. They are corrupt. Nigeria has a huge wealth of oil and mineral resources.
Check out these guys.

The Congo is a place I would take refugees from.
Not so sure about Pakistan or Nigeria.

2011

@ Jimjay

I can’t speak for the owner. I take it that your point is that perjury is was his plan all along? Maybe this is the case. If it is, so what?

Jimjay

2011 wrote: »

@ Jimjay

I can’t speak for the owner. I take it that your point is that perjury is was his plan all along? Maybe this is the case. If it is, so what?

My point is that people are saying dont blame the owners, it wasnt viable to run as a hotel so they had to make money this way. The owners never tried to run it as a hotel in the first place.

recedite

2011 wrote: »

Or do they not count?

People count, but Ireland cannot end world poverty by inviting the whole world to come and live in our hotels free of charge, while gullible Paddy the Irish Taxpayer picks up the tab.


We could set up aid programs in countries where people need aid. We already do that. A small amount of money goes a long way if spent wisely.
Not that the countries these people come from need aid.



Ireland; population 4.8 million. Not much in the way of natural resources, but has hard working people.


Nigeria population 200 million. Vast oil reserves and minerals.


Pakistan population also 200 million. Currently selling three jet fighters to Nigeria at $61 million each. We couldn't afford one jet fighter, even if we wanted one.


Congo; diamonds, gold, rare earth minerals, you name it they have it.

antietam1

I dislike this nonsense about the Irish emigrated too, did anyone convert a hotel for us? offer a council house.
Then there's the Irish experience in the US civil war.

2011

Jimjay wrote: »

The owners never tried to run it as a hotel in the first place.

Perhaps you are correct, I honestly don’t know.
Either way this doesn’t make it the right or wrong decision

2011

@ recedite: I agree that Ireland can’t fix the world’s problems. However given that asylum seekers will be catered for in Ireland righty or wrongly, what is your issue with the Grand Hotel being used for direct provision?

recedite

2011 wrote: »

@ recedite: I agree that Ireland can’t fix the world’s problems. However given that asylum seekers will be catered for in Ireland righty or wrongly, what is your issue with the Grand Hotel being used for direct provision?

I disagree with everything about it.
I'm against encouraging them into Ireland.
I'm against using the only hotel in the town for direct provision.
I'm against the whole "asylum industry" as it has become, with the long drawn out process of direct provision. It costs the taxpayer a fortune, it makes rich consortiums even wealthier, and it bores the hell out of the asylum seekers.
It teaches them how to survive while doing nothing all day, for years, while denying them the chance to even cook their own meals.

I would certainly grant asylum to exceptional cases, somebody like Asia Bibi, but I'd give her a PPS number and some language training straight away, and expect her to integrate into normal productive society fairly quickly.

murpho999

I think some people need to watch the BBC programme Exodus. Not sure how you can get it but info is here.

Many of these people are fleeing desperate situations and genuinely need help.

I'd like to think that Ireland, as a country that has suffered from emigration would show some compassion.

No point in comparing it to the homeless crisis as that's a completely different issue in that many on the streets have serious personal problems such as additcion and mental health and will not be helped by just being provided a room/house as many think.

antietam1

murpho999 wrote: »

I think some people need to watch the BBC programme Exodus. Not sure how you can get it but info is here.

Many of these people are fleeing desperate situations and genuinely need help.

I'd like to think that Ireland, as a country that has suffered from emigration would show some compassion.

No point in comparing it to the homeless crisis as that's a completely different issue in that many on the streets have serious personal problems such as additcion and mental health and will not be helped by just being provided a room/house as many think.

Our emigration history has nothing to do with it, but if you can get rid of the fakes who fly in here everyday I would agree with you.

murpho999

antietam1 wrote: »

Our emigration history has nothing to do with it, but if you can get rid of the fakes who fly in here everyday I would agree with you.

What fakes are you referring to?

How do you know they're fake?

Can you provide anything to back it up?

Also, I think our own emigration has plenty to do with it as we should realise that most people don't just move their home country for the sake of it.

If you were from a war torn Syria or Yemen, or poverty stricken war torn countries in Africa you would do the same to get your family out of a bad situation just like the Irish did.

2011

recedite wrote: »

I disagree with everything about it.
I'm against encouraging them into Ireland.
I'm against using the only hotel in the town for direct provision.
I'm against the whole "asylum industry" as it has become, with the long drawn out process of direct provision. It costs the taxpayer a fortune, it makes rich consortiums even wealthier, and it bores the hell out of the asylum seekers.
It teaches them how to survive while doing nothing all day, for years, while denying them the chance to even cook their own meals.

I would certainly grant asylum to exceptional cases, somebody like Asia Bibi, but I'd give her a PPS number and some language training straight away, and expect her to integrate into normal productive society fairly quickly.

Yes, I understand your views on this policy. A regional forum is not really the place to debate government policy. I am not debating that with you at all. You can take it that your view on asylum seekers is clearly understood.

Despite the fact that you quoted my post in full you have not answered my question.

It's the busiest year for a decade for asylum claims, thats probably why the new places are needed so badly.

antietam1

murpho999 wrote: »

What fakes are you referring to?

How do you know they're fake?

Can you provide anything to back it up?

Also, I think our own emigration has plenty to do with it as we should realise that most people don't just move their home country for the sake of it.

If you were from a war torn Syria or Yemen, or poverty stricken war torn countries in Africa you would do the same to get your family out of a bad situation just like the Irish did.

Do you know they're not fake? have you got a link?

2013Lara

Post removed as it makes unsubstantiated allegations

2011

Were the hotel guests ever vetted? Were they subjected to a curfew?
Were tourists from certain countries, religions or races not permitted to stay in the hotel?
Has the availability of doctors significantly disimproved over the last few days?
Are the local schools suddenly more crowded?

Is it time to make Wicklow great again and build a wall?

murpho999

antietam1 wrote: »

Do you know they're not fake? have you got a link?

As suspected you cannot back up anything you say with facts or evidence when asked.

Baybay

2011 wrote: »

Has the availability of doctors significantly disimproved over the last few days?

Not over the last few days. Over the last few years.

ligerdub

murpho999 wrote:

I think some people need to watch the BBC programme Exodus. Not sure how you can get it but info is.

Many of these people are fleeing desperate situations and genuinely need help.

I'd like to think that Ireland, as a country that has suffered from emigration would show some compassion.

No point in comparing it to the homeless crisis as that's a completely different issue in that many on the streets have serious personal problems such as additcion and mental health and will not be helped by just being provided a room/house as many think.

That program is from 3 years ago, Syria is starting to rebuild. Also, the BBC are knee deep in the business of propaganda these days, they aren't reliable from the point of view of unbiased reporting.

Irish people were indeed emigrants in large numbers, at times what we now refer to as refugees, and where did they go? Britain and America mainly! It's almost as if those locations were culturally setup to make the transition in their new home manageable. They also happened to be the nearest points of relief east and west. Also, at what point do we draw the line on that tagline? Are we just expected to take absolutely everyone in because we had a famine 150 years ago, and suffered massively as a result of a global meltdown only 10 years ago? No. It's a facile and stupid point and the lip service on it needs to stop.

The issue around homelessness is relevant as there seems to be almost nothing done by this govt to do anything about it. You see that would require spending money on our own, and their bosses in Brussels don't want that, they want Ireland to do their fair share of embracing diversity i.e. importing people from non war-torn African countries......so needless to say Fine Gael don't let them down. This is just the start of this sort of ****e. We are being led down a very bad path by the weasels in charge in this country.

I don't blame those coming here either, they are the victims of these money hungry bastards and other dark dudes (character wise) from where they came from. In what sense is coming to Ireland compatible to somebody from Africa or the Middle east? Language, skills, economy, weather, absolutely none of it matches, if anything I consider it bordering on the cruel that they aren't sent somewhere else.

Working class heroes

Baybay wrote: »

Not over the last few days. Over the last few years.

Never any issues getting an appointment for a doctor in Wicklow. Why are people saying there is, it’s pure no nonsense.