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Unexpected consequences of Brexit

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  • 16-11-2018 12:11pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,403 ✭✭✭✭


    When Brexit is sorted ( I am an optimist ).

    Ireland will be the only English speaking country in Europe with free movement of people will this lead to all the eastern Europeans who want to go to the UK but cant coming to Ireland instead and putting further pressure on the housing market.

    There are probably lots of other unexpected or even unknowable consequences.

    Be nice if this thread didn't attract a lot of racists.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,183 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    mariaalice wrote: »
    When Brexit is sorted ( I am an optimist ).

    Ireland will be the only English speaking country in Europe with free movement of people will this lead to all the eastern Europeans who want to go to the UK but cant coming to Ireland instead and putting further pressure on the housing market.

    There are probably lots of other unexpected or even unknowable consequences.

    Be nice if this thread didn't attract a lot of racists.


    Your first point about being an English speaking country is not unexpected. Apparently even Dominic Raab was aware of that one. (Malta? Plus the UK will still be in Europe. Just not the European Union)


    Eastern Europeans tend to come to work. More coming is a good sign. Maybe they'll build a few houses for us


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,403 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Your first point about being an English speaking country is not unexpected (Malta?)


    Eastern Europeans tend to come to work. More coming is a good sign. Maybe they'll build a few houses for us

    It's not about working or skilled builder it's about where they will reside, will it have any effect on the property market. It was talking to a person who rents out a room in their house they told me about being almost inundated with enquires from eastern Europe and South Africa.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,183 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    mariaalice wrote: »
    It's not about working or skilled builder it's about where they will reside, will it have any effect on the property market. It was talking to a person who rents out a room in their house they told me about being almost inundated with enquires from eastern Europe and South Africa.


    The feckers. Wanting to have somewhere to rent to sleep. Taking good centrally located rooms out of the hands of dole-scrounging wasters who would have gotten them for "free" otherwise




    I'm with Patrick Guinness on the Syrians ;)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,805 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The feckers. Wanting to have somewhere to rent to sleep. Taking good centrally located rooms out of the hands of dole-scrounging wasters who would have gotten them for "free" otherwise

    I'm with Patrick Guinness on the Syrians ;)

    This is a forum for serious discussion. Please read the charter before posting again and dial back on the sarcastic quips.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,403 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    The feckers. Wanting to have somewhere to rent to sleep. Taking good centrally located rooms out of the hands of dole-scrounging wasters who would have gotten them for "free" otherwise




    I'm with Patrick Guinness on the Syrians ;)

    Again you are extrapolating from my post something that is not there, it is simply a fact.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,183 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Again you are extrapolating from my post something that is not there, it is simply a fact.

    mariaalice wrote: »
    Again you are extrapolating from my post something that is not there, it is simply a fact.




    What is fact from your posts other than anecdotal evidence that a person you know received a lot of inquiries from Easter Europeans and South Africans about renting a room?



    A lot of the "problems", in Dublin at least, are from people coming in to work in finance or tech. High paying jobs and people with money to spend pushing up prices, and having a knock on effect on surrounding areas. Those people are coming from all over the world. Ironically, plenty will be driven over from London by Brexit as financial companies relocate and build up operations in Dublin. The problem is not the people coming, it's the lack of housing stock.


    If Brexit causes more people to move here, it will not be confined, or maybe even dominated by Easter Europeans so there is no reason to single them out and highlight them alone


    As I said, Eastern Europeans come to work. They will come if they have jobs. which is a good thing. The building labourer, coming over to build houses and wanting to rent a room for somewhere to live while here cannot be scapegoated.

    I got warned for that, so I had better leave this thread because I don't know how else to respond to the underlying current implied in your post. I didn't consider your opening post to be a "serious" post and so I responded in kind. But apparently it was serious and not satire or a pisstake. It was not my intention to offend. But I will leave the thread now


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,332 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    mariaalice wrote: »
    When Brexit is sorted ( I am an optimist ).

    Ireland will be the only English speaking country in Europe with free movement of people will this lead to all the eastern Europeans who want to go to the UK but cant coming to Ireland instead and putting further pressure on the housing market.

    I don't follow your logic, which seems to be that East Europeans denied access to the UK will instead come to Ireland because we are English speaking?
    But seeing as English isn't their first language and probably not even their second language (probably German or Russian depending on which EU country they are from) so presumably the attraction of the UK was something other than the language.
    Which is not to say they won't be attracted here, I just don't see the language as a factor.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    mariaalice wrote: »
    When Brexit is sorted ( I am an optimist ).

    Ireland will be the only English speaking country in Europe with free movement of people will this lead to all the eastern Europeans who want to go to the UK but cant coming to Ireland instead and putting further pressure on the housing market.

    There are probably lots of other unexpected or even unknowable consequences.

    Be nice if this thread didn't attract a lot of racists.

    I think you strike an alarmist tone, what about the influx of Poles and other eastern Europeans in the mid-2000s? Can't picture another significant wave like this materialising again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,403 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Alright it was badley put, and yes it was an anecdote. Could Brexit have consequence for the irish property market.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,403 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Alright it was badley put, and yes it was an anecdote. Could Brexit have consequence for the irish property market.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    What might be the situation re: Duty Free? Could a lad take a €9.99 flight from Dublin to Liverpool and bring back 200 cigs and a bottle of Whiskey. Could there be Duty Free for crossing the NI border or even a booze cruise across the Irish Sea with the carferry companies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    To be honest, I didn't expect the impact on Northern Ireland to be so rancorous - before the referendum, Peter Robinson appeared to be fairly moderate in his tone, as was Martin McGuinness, but as the Claire Byrne polls showed on Monday, nationalist confidence in the institutions has completely collapsed due to Brexit, and the communities seem more polarised than at any point in the last 20 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭fxotoole


    mariaalice wrote: »
    It's not about working or skilled builder it's about where they will reside, will it have any effect on the property market. It was talking to a person who rents out a room in their house they told me about being almost inundated with enquires from eastern Europe and South Africa.

    Maybe all these highly skilled Eastern European builders could build their own houses?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    theguzman wrote: »
    What might be the situation re: Duty Free? Could a lad take a €9.99 flight from Dublin to Liverpool and bring back 200 cigs and a bottle of Whiskey. Could there be Duty Free for crossing the NI border or even a booze cruise across the Irish Sea with the carferry companies.

    If the WA is approved, they'll still be in a CU for goods.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Eastern Europeans or Irish or Brazilians etc. they are all getting screwed as the property market and price of housing to rent and buy is inflated by the corrupt elite.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    theguzman wrote: »
    Eastern Europeans or Irish or Brazilians etc. they are all getting screwed as the property market and price of housing to rent and buy is inflated by the corrupt elite.

    Who are the corrupt elite and how are they inflating the market?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Who are the corrupt elite and how are they inflating the market?


    Foreign companies buying up housing stock, TD's owning dozens of houses and Auctioneers and Solicitors. I think that until the housing crisis is solved there should be a ban on foreigners buying property across the country as New Zealand has recently implemented and Sydney is implementing also. There should be a complete ban on foreign ownership of farmland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    theguzman wrote: »
    Foreign companies buying up housing stock, TD's owning dozens of houses and Auctioneers and Solicitors. I think that until the housing crisis is solved there should be a ban on foreigners buying property across the country as New Zealand has recently implemented and Sydney is implementing also. There should be a complete ban on foreign ownership of farmland.

    Enabled by FG/FF government with low tax rates and being their customer for rentals and buying.


    Well part of the no houses propaganda is not enough builders, so we should welcome any from anywhere. Also some years ago Irish Ferries docked, (still dock?) in England to avail of cheaper eastern European cleaning staff, (major deal at the time) so it's nothing new. Except now they'll need pay them a salary on par with Ireland.
    I think business will prosper here and a United Ireland will be closer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    mariaalice wrote: »
    When Brexit is sorted ( I am an optimist ).

    Ireland will be the only English speaking country in Europe with free movement of people will this lead to all the eastern Europeans who want to go to the UK but cant coming to Ireland instead and putting further pressure on the housing market.

    There are probably lots of other unexpected or even unknowable consequences.

    Be nice if this thread didn't attract a lot of racists.

    The amount of Eastern people moving to the UK for work has been dropping significantly since the early days of enlargement. Can you supply any substantiation as to why you think many numbers will now come here?
    Otherwise we are discussing something that may or may not be real.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    demfad wrote: »
    mariaalice wrote: »
    When Brexit is sorted ( I am an optimist ).

    Ireland will be the only English speaking country in Europe with free movement of people will this lead to all the eastern Europeans who want to go to the UK but cant coming to Ireland instead and putting further pressure on the housing market.

    There are probably lots of other unexpected or even unknowable consequences.

    Be nice if this thread didn't attract a lot of racists.

    The amount of Eastern people moving to the UK for work has been dropping significantly since the early days of enlargement. Can you supply any substantiation as to why you think many numbers will now come here?
    Otherwise we are discussing something that may or may not be real.

    Apparently, unemployment in Poland is now only 3%, according to recent figures:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/#0


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    theguzman wrote: »
    Foreign companies buying up housing stock, TD's owning dozens of houses and Auctioneers and Solicitors. I think that until the housing crisis is solved there should be a ban on foreigners buying property across the country as New Zealand has recently implemented and Sydney is implementing also. There should be a complete ban on foreign ownership of farmland.
    How is "Foreign companies buying up housing stock, TD's owning dozens of houses and Auctioneers and Solicitors." driving up prices?
    Surely the ownership of a property is irrelevant if it still accommodates x number of people?
    Would it not be better to stop interfereing with the market and simply increase supply in a sustainable manner?

    Anyhow, what makes them a corrupt elite?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The huge waves of Poles were because only 3 EU countries allowed them access to the labour market after Poland's accession. Nowadays notwithstanding the fact that the Polish economy is performing well Poles can go to any country in the EU to live and work. I have several Polish colleagues in my Berlin office.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    British recruiters of Eastern Europeans have been complaining for the last few years that they can't get them to come to Britain because - apart from Brexit-related xenophobia - their potential workforce can get better-paid work elsewhere in continental Europe (Germany and Poland feature regularly as good payers). Why would they decide to come to Ireland instead of the UK unless we can offer them better opportunities than Poland?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    How is "Foreign companies buying up housing stock, TD's owning dozens of houses and Auctioneers and Solicitors." driving up prices?
    Surely the ownership of a property is irrelevant if it still accommodates x number of people?
    Would it not be better to stop interfereing with the market and simply increase supply in a sustainable manner?

    Anyhow, what makes them a corrupt elite?

    The going rate for rent or purchase is no longer set by the customer but the corporation/consortium.
    If wealthy people hold on to or purchase property for investment, this is very relevant and keeps the market heated.
    Due to lack of social and affordable housing the state and LA's are renting and buying off of these property companies, thus maintaining their interest in our market and keeping prices from dropping to a level most can comfortably afford.
    The corruption is more willful poor governing IMO. It comes when the state sets low taxes for vulture funds making buying up homes attractive and the LA's/state buying and renting back off them, the tax payer footing the bill. It's not corruption just piss poor governing. The corruption is debatable as to how much inappropriate behaviour may be going on and why they continue to use the housing crisis in such a manner, that being to drive the profits of private concerns.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Most unexpected consequence for me is seeing institutions like the Irish Times, for example, which historically had a pro British slant now resembling almost a daily version of the old "Republican War News" from the 70s or something.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The going rate for rent or purchase is no longer set by the customer but the corporation/consortium.
    If wealthy people hold on to or purchase property for investment, this is very relevant and keeps the market heated.
    I would say that the going rate is set by the market (excluding government interference).
    If you want to include government interference then you would have to look at the numbers of small landlords (which were heavily dependent on) who got fed up with the stupid legislation and have moved to the likes of AirBnB.
    Is there any evidence that "wealthy" people owning investment property has heated the market?
    Due to lack of social and affordable housing the state and LA's are renting and buying off of these property companies, thus maintaining their interest in our market and keeping prices from dropping to a level most can comfortably afford.
    My understanding is that they're both building (which takes time) and buying whatever they can.
    In terms of buying from "these property companies" do you mean estate agents or REITs? If the latter, how many properties have we purchased from them and what alternative source could we have gotten that number from?
    What is the percentage of state purchased properties were REIT and what were from private landlords?

    The corruption is more willful poor governing IMO. It comes when the state sets low taxes for vulture funds making buying up homes attractive and the LA's/state buying and renting back off them, the tax payer footing the bill. It's not corruption just piss poor governing. The corruption is debatable as to how much inappropriate behaviour may be going on and why they continue to use the housing crisis in such a manner, that being to drive the profits of private concerns.
    So no corruption then, just some potential tinfoil hat thinking (at a extreme stretch)?


    Either way, none of this has anything to do with Brexit as was suggested by the OP


  • Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Rhineshark


    Somewhat unexpected consequence - the wave of British immigration to Ireland, both in terms of passports (which may not prove moving over) but also citizenships and buying up property, particularly in more rural areas or older "strongholds" like west Cork.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,827 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    What is fact from your posts other than anecdotal evidence that a person you know received a lot of inquiries from Easter Europeans and South Africans about renting a room?



    A lot of the "problems", in Dublin at least, are from people coming in to work in finance or tech. High paying jobs and people with money to spend pushing up prices, and having a knock on effect on surrounding areas. Those people are coming from all over the world. Ironically, plenty will be driven over from London by Brexit as financial companies relocate and build up operations in Dublin. The problem is not the people coming, it's the lack of housing stock.


    If Brexit causes more people to move here, it will not be confined, or maybe even dominated by Easter Europeans so there is no reason to single them out and highlight them alone


    As I said, Eastern Europeans come to work. They will come if they have jobs. which is a good thing. The building labourer, coming over to build houses and wanting to rent a room for somewhere to live while here cannot be scapegoated.

    I got warned for that, so I had better leave this thread because I don't know how else to respond to the underlying current implied in your post. I didn't consider your opening post to be a "serious" post and so I responded in kind. But apparently it was serious and not satire or a pisstake. It was not my intention to offend. But I will leave the thread now

    If it pushes house prices up even further in the capital, they will factor that into their decision to come or not.
    €2000 pm for a half decent two bedroom in Dublin is the current norm. that's a €24,000 cut out of your net wage. I would factor that into a decision to move here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,207 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    British recruiters of Eastern Europeans have been complaining for the last few years that they can't get them to come to Britain because - apart from Brexit-related xenophobia - their potential workforce can get better-paid work elsewhere in continental Europe (Germany and Poland feature regularly as good payers). Why would they decide to come to Ireland instead of the UK unless we can offer them better opportunities than Poland?
    ". . . unless we can offer them better opportunities than Germany, Austria, Italy, France, etc", I think you mean.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭mrbrianj


    Anecdotal chats with Eastern European construction workers in the UK last year/ 18 months - many were leaving the London/SE region and heading to mainland Europe. Explaining that the rents were so high, and that jobs elsewhere in Europe while paying less but required less rent which left them better off.

    I dont think anybody will come to Ireland for an average salary just to be fleeced for rent. High skilled jobs yes - but that was ever the way


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