Rent costs breaking records

Elessar

A read of the latest daft.ie report is depressing as you might expect. New figures released today show rents at an all time high. €1334/month national average and €2k/month in Dublin.

We were lucky to get a decent 2 bed house but since we rented in May, price for 2 beds in our area is already €400 a month higher than what we are paying. That’s if you can find one.

Interestingly the report notes that it’s apartments that people are looking for, yet construction is only increasing for family homes. We desperately need more apartments.

Is anyone here looking for rental properties in Dublin? What is your experience?

https://www.daft.ie/report

BattleCorp

Fcuked if I can figure out how people can afford to rent in Dublin.

Sonics2k

But won't someone please think of the poor landlords with their multiple houses!

No but seriously, it's damn near impossible to get a out of the rent trap now.

mikemac2

And yet in Accomadation forum landlords cry with their tales of woe

Demanding bank statements, employer references, personal references and three months deposit

Evict after five months as tenants get rights after six months

Convert the dining/sitting room into extra bedrooms and allow the cleaner to enter everyone’s bedroom which have no locks was a good one

Yet when one asked should they inform the bank about moving out and renting the entire house the advice was don’t be stupid, be quiet and say nothing. Sure thousands do it, be grand

El_Duderino 09

It suits property owners who happen to be older. Today’s old people will have decent pensions and a massively overpriced house to sell. Happy retirement.

If the government sorted out the problem now by building, increasing supply and reducing prices, the old people’s pension problem would move closer.

Today’s young people are doubly shafted as they have lower wages, lower pension expectations, AND they’re paying money upward to cover older people’s property costs and keep the prices inflated. They’re borrowing from their own prospects of home ownership and the retirement benefit selling a house would bring, so we don’t upset the old people of today.

cordy1969

mikemac2 wrote: »

And yet in Accomadation forum landlords cry with their tales of woe

Demanding bank statements, employer references, personal references and three months deposit

Evict after five months as tenants get rights after six months

Yet when one asked should they inform the bank about moving out and renting the entire house the advice was don’t be stupid, be quiet and say nothing. Sure thousands do it, be grand

Its like that because of the government restrictions. Maybe if people lobbied the government to change the ridiculous laws like rent capping, time it takes to evict non paying tenants etc etc.
Imagine owning an asset and being told who you can and can't rent it to, or being told what you can and can't charge. Then at the end of it having to provide accommodation free of charge for 2 years it takes to evict a non paying tenant.
Yes being a LL is so easy its like having a money printing machine.

Seriously though it does make you wonder how much trouble the country is going to be in the future with attitudes like above.

The older people posters have referred to as having it easy. Those "older people" you make reference to got a mortgage and payed it off when interest rates were in excess of 10%. Current interest rates are on average 3 to 4%. Yes the younger generation has it sooooo tough.

BattleCorp

cordy1969 wrote: »

The older people posters have referred to as having it easy. Those "older people" you make reference to got a mortgage and payed it off when interest rates were in excess of 10%. Current interest rates are on average 3 to 4%. Yes the younger generation has it sooooo tough.

To be fair, I do think that the younger generation have it tougher in some ways.

Yes, it was tough for me to get onto the property ladder, but I did it. It'll be hard to see how most young people will get onto the property ladder in the future unless they either have excellent jobs or they inherit a house.

cordy1969

BattleCorp wrote: »

To be fair, I do think that the younger generation have it tougher in some ways.

Yes, it was tough for me to get onto the property ladder, but I did it. It'll be hard to see how most young people will get onto the property ladder in the future unless they either have excellent jobs or they inherit a house.

Ok I'll bite how do they have it tougher?

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

.......... It'll be hard to see how most young people will get onto the property ladder in the future unless they either have excellent jobs or they inherit a house.

That sounds very 2004/2005/2006 ish
Every tide turns.

Franz Von Peppercorn

cordy1969 wrote: »

Ok I'll bite how do they have it tougher?

More expensive houses. Longer time in rental. Higher rental costs. Older age to get pension. May not even get a pension.

Wibbs

cordy1969 wrote: »

The older people posters have referred to as having it easy. Those "older people" you make reference to got a mortgage and payed it off when interest rates were in excess of 10%. Current interest rates are on average 3 to 4%. Yes the younger generation has it sooooo tough.

Don't bother C, that particular poster has the horn/obsession with "old people" running things for the "young". Completely oblivious to the facts that the same "old people" earned, consumed and spent far less and as you note were paying crazy high mortgage rates, if they could secure a mortgage. A person hitting retirement age this year was 30 back in the early 80's, when Ireland was well in the poo economically and thousands were leaving the place. I reckon some have short memories, or buy into some collective notion that it was the old/the boom/FF/the church's fault for whatever ails us today in Ireland.

What is more at fault was/is stupid planning in the hands of those tasked with it. The laws around renting. Some sectors of the building industry that have ramped up costs. The banking sector that have gone from one extreme to the other where it comes to mortgages(though other forms of credit like PCP's home improvement loans and the like have taken up much of the slack and we're nearly as credit happy as we were in the "boom"). The Irish cultural holdover of "only a semi dee will do" another problem.

BattleCorp

cordy1969 wrote: »

Ok I'll bite how do they have it tougher?

Wot he said below.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

More expensive houses. Longer time in rental. Higher rental costs. Older age to get pension. May not even get a pension.

Wibbs

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

More expensive houses. Longer time in rental. Higher rental costs. Older age to get pension. May not even get a pension.

Oh I agree the current generation do NOT have it easy. No generation does really, unless they hit square in the middle of a financial upswing and don't go nuts with it. Still, I"d not like to be 30 odd, maybe hitched with a family looking for a home today. In anywhere but the middle of nowhere anyway.

Berserker

Elessar wrote: »

We desperately need more apartments.

We desperately need quality apartments, not the garbage that builders here throw up.

Sonics2k wrote: »

But won't someone please think of the poor landlords with their multiple houses!

You'll regret posting that. Landlords on boards are like the online mafia.

cordy1969 wrote: »

Imagine owning an asset and being told who you can and can't rent it to, or being told what you can and can't charge.

I would expect that to be the case in any market which functions correctly.

BattleCorp wrote: »

To be fair, I do think that the younger generation have it tougher in some ways.

Welcome to boards Stefanie.

El_Duderino 09

cordy1969 wrote: »

The older people posters have referred to as having it easy. Those "older people" you make reference to got a mortgage and payed it off when interest rates were in excess of 10%. Current interest rates are on average 3 to 4%. Yes the younger generation has it sooooo tough.

Yes the younger people have it tough. Whatever the interest rates, the younger people can’t afford to buy because of the likely stagnation of wages and likely increase in rent costs.

Whether the interest rates were 10% or 1% young people can’t afford to buy houses like was possible in the past. So who actually has it tough?

Well, young people can afford a mortgage. They pay their landlord’s mortgage so the landlord an one day sell the property and enjoy the the money. Young people are less likely than any generation in recent history to have that because they’ pay the older folks’ mortgage for them.

El_Duderino 09

BattleCorp wrote: »

To be fair, I do think that the younger generation have it tougher in some ways.

Yes, it was tough for me to get onto the property ladder, but I did it. It'll be hard to see how most young people will get onto the property ladder in the future unless they either have excellent jobs or they inherit a house.

Plus the fact that inheritance will become less likely as older people live longer and longer in poorer and poorer health. They’ll be more likely to spend their money leaving less and less inheritance.

Franz Von Peppercorn

The 10% is misleading of course because it’s not like repayments were ten times higher. With a 10% interest the house was cheaper but the repayments were as or more expensive as a percentage of income as now. That’s why house prices rise when credit gets cheaper.

The good thing about 10% interest rates is that it means inflation is high reducing real payments and when inflation drops the rates then fall. 8 years into my mortgage and it’s still a big whack of my income. 8 years into a mortgage started in 1980 and you’re paying much less.

El_Duderino 09

Wibbs wrote: »

Don't bother C, that particular poster has the horn/obsession with "old people" running things for the "young". Completely oblivious to the facts that the same "old people" earned, consumed and spent far less and as you note were paying crazy high mortgage rates, if they could secure a mortgage. A person hitting retirement age this year was 30 back in the early 80's, when Ireland was well in the poo economically and thousands were leaving the place.

Whether the economy was up or down, more people could afford to get a mortgage in those days. Those people had mortgages at high interest rates and still paid a lower proportion of household income on housing.

Wibbed for my amusement, reliable as ever.

steddyeddy

cordy1969 wrote: »

Its like that because of the government restrictions. Maybe if people lobbied the government to change the ridiculous laws like rent capping, time it takes to evict non paying tenants etc etc.
Imagine owning an asset and being told who you can and can't rent it to, or being told what you can and can't charge. Then at the end of it having to provide accommodation free of charge for 2 years it takes to evict a non paying tenant.
Yes being a LL is so easy its like having a money printing machine.

Seriously though it does make you wonder how much trouble the country is going to be in the future with attitudes like above.

The older people posters have referred to as having it easy. Those "older people" you make reference to got a mortgage and payed it off when interest rates were in excess of 10%. Current interest rates are on average 3 to 4%. Yes the younger generation has it sooooo tough.

I can understand laws designed to remove troublesome tenants quicker but in light of rent cost breaking records you think tenants will vote to remove rent caps and increase rent?

Ray Palmer

What the article fails to point out is taxes and expenses have gone up in this time. So while rents are higher landlords get less money and that is after years of making a loss while rents were down.
When rents were dropping they added these taxes and expenses and the public didn't care. Why should landlords care about people complaining?

Charlie19

Just under 200 children became homeless within the last month, that's a shocking statistic.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

........... May not even get a pension.

Same chance of the current old folk having their pension reduced to SFA, SFA chance

cordy1969

The average married couple with no children with both partners working.

Average wage lets say $40k each

69100 taxed at 20% = 55280 annual
10900 Taxed at 40% = 6540 annual

Total income for married couple = 61820 annual

Nice Rental = 1800 p/m x 12 = 21600
Living comfortably weekly expenses = 1000 x12 = 12000
Emergency fund = 400 x 12 = 4800

Total expenditure = 38400

Total Balance left over for a deposit = 23420

Current Mortgage 3.5 x gross wage = 280,000

Deposit required 20% = 56000

So in approx 30 months living very comfortably, you can save a deposit whilst still living comfortably and be a home owner within 30 months.

Can anyone explain to me why that is so hard? Now bearing in mind I have been more than generous with living expenses.

Not interested in single people's theories etc. As most people don't buy a house until they are married or in a relationship. There are exceptions of course and a single person earning a nice wage could also afford it reasonably easy.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Whether the economy was up or down, more people could afford to get a mortgage in those days. Those people had mortgages at high interest rates and still paid a lower proportion of household income on housing.

Wibbed for my amusement, reliable as ever.

Loads of folk had to emmigrate to the US or England.
I really don't think mortgages were as easy to get as you claim. Social housing was plentiful in comparison to today though but RA or whatever it's called wasn't a thing.

893bet

Charlie19 wrote: »

Just under 200 children became homeless within the last month, that's a shocking statistic.

Let’s not believe the headlines. The definition of homeless has changed a lot in the last few years.

Wibbs

Berserker wrote: »

We desperately need quality apartments, not the garbage that builders here throw up.

+1000. Having been in apartments in major cities in France, Spain and Italy, apartments where families were raised(like a majority in such cities), the difference between the layout and build quality, especially the layout was stark. Irish apartment design from the one's I've been in are for the most part built for one or two people, people "on the ladder" for a house down the line. The continental designs are laid out for families utilising the space for practicality(obviously they have one bed student type digs too). I remember one apartment I was in here in Dublin. Fancy type of place, new build. Two bed. It had a corridor and a bathroom the size of a cottage, while the actual kitchen area was the size of a postage stamp. Daft use of the available space.

893bet

893bet wrote: »

Let’s not believe the headlines. The definition of homeless has changed a lot in the last few years.

Indeed, lots of the "homeless" kids, their parents are complete and utter wasters.............. strategically "homeless" to aid in their quest for a free (to them) house.

893bet

cordy1969 wrote: »

The average married couple with no children with both partners working.

Average wage lets say $40k each

69100 taxed at 20% = 55280 annual
10900 Taxed at 40% = 6540 annual

Total income for married couple = 61820 annual

Nice Rental = 1800 p/m x 12 = 21600
Living comfortably weekly expenses = 1000 x12 = 12000
Emergency fund = 400 x 12 = 4800

Total expenditure = 38400

Total Balance left over for a deposit = 23420

Current Mortgage 3.5 x gross wage = 280,000

Deposit required 20% = 56000

So in approx 30 months living very comfortably, you can save a deposit whilst still living comfortably and be a home owner within 30 months.

Can anyone explain to me why that is so hard? Now bearing in mind I have been more than generous with living expenses.

Not interested in single people's theories etc. As most people don't buy a house until they are married or in a relationship. There are exceptions of course and a single person earning a nice wage could also afford it reasonably easy.

I don’t think 1000 a month would cover house cost (heat, electricity, tv, bins, broadband), food, clothes, two cars (or one car and weekly bus ticket or similar) anyway comfortably for two people.

CucaFace

cordy1969 wrote: »

Its like that because of the government restrictions. Maybe if people lobbied the government to change the ridiculous laws like rent capping, time it takes to evict non paying tenants etc etc.
Imagine owning an asset and being told who you can and can't rent it to, or being told what you can and can't charge. Then at the end of it having to provide accommodation free of charge for 2 years it takes to evict a non paying tenant.
Yes being a LL is so easy its like having a money printing machine.

Seriously though it does make you wonder how much trouble the country is going to be in the future with attitudes like above.

The older people posters have referred to as having it easy. Those "older people" you make reference to got a mortgage and payed it off when interest rates were in excess of 10%. Current interest rates are on average 3 to 4%. Yes the younger generation has it sooooo tough.

So you actually think the rent cap was a bad thing to put into action a couple of years or so?

Rent in a shared house in Dublin has doubled in the last 4 years, I can't imagine what it would be now if the rent cap wasn't introduced. And its down to nothing but pure greed of the landlords taking advantage of the lack of supply. Its an actual disgrace the prices that people have been charging here in Dublin city. They should be ashamed really about the way they are taking advantage of other people and if it wasn't for the introduction of the cap this would go unchecked as a lot of the landlords have shown their true colours. And I say this as someone more on the capitalist side of things...

I agree regarding the laws allowing non payers to remain in houses, this should be changed to stop the cheats and the spongers.

Wanderer78

Continually rising rent rates are good for the economy, nothing to see here!

El_Duderino 09

Augeo wrote: »

Loads of folk had to emmigrate to the US or England.
I really don't think mortgages were as easy to get as you claim. Social housing was plentiful in comparison to today though but RA or whatever it's called wasn't a thing.

Don’t worry about what I claim. The fact is that more people got mortgages back then and even with the higher interest rates, they still paid a lower proportion of household income on housing. That information controls for all the important changes over time.

I don’t really know what other pieces of information would make the case more clearly.

questionmark?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Continually rising rent rates are good for the economy, nothing to see here!

How? Money that could be spent on goods and services is going to the landlord.

cordy1969

893bet wrote: »

I don’t think 1000 a month would cover house cost (heat, electricity, tv, bins, broadband), food, clothes, two cars (or one car and weekly bus ticket or similar)

The average married couple with no children with both partners working.

Average wage lets say $40k each

69100 taxed at 20% = 55280 annual
10900 Taxed at 40% = 6540 annual

Total income for married couple = 61820 annual

Nice Rental = 1800 p/m x 12 = 21600
Living comfortably weekly expenses = 1000 x12 = 12000 (not enough lets double it). 24000
Emergency fund = 400 x 12 = 4800

Total expenditure = 38400 (50400)

Total Balance left over for a deposit = 23420 ( 11420)

Current Mortgage 3.5 x gross wage = 280,000

Deposit required 20% = 56000

So in approx 30 (58) months living very comfortably (now we have doubled living expenses 58 months), you can save a deposit whilst still living comfortably and be a home owner within 30 months.

Can anyone explain to me why that is so hard? Now bearing in mind I have been more than generous with living expenses.

Not interested in single people's theories etc. As most people don't buy a house until they are married or in a relationship. There are exceptions of course and a single person earning a nice wage could also afford it reasonably easy.

Wanderer78

questionmark? wrote:

How? Money that could be spent on goods and services is going to the landlord.

But doesn't this wealth trickle down from investments made?

Moonjet

Interesting Limerick rents up 20.3% in a year. What's the explanation, lack of building in that area? People moving from surrounding counties for jobs?

BattleCorp

Moonjet wrote: »

Interesting Limerick rents up 20.3% in a year. What's the explanation, lack of building in that area? People moving from surrounding counties for jobs?

Less people getting stabbed. :cool:

amcalester

cordy1969 wrote: »

The average married couple with no children with both partners working.

Average wage lets say $40k each

69100 taxed at 20% = 55280 annual
10900 Taxed at 40% = 6540 annual

Total income for married couple = 61820 annual

Nice Rental = 1800 p/m x 12 = 21600
Living comfortably weekly expenses = 1000 x12 = 12000
Emergency fund = 400 x 12 = 4800

Total expenditure = 38400

Total Balance left over for a deposit = 23420

Current Mortgage 3.5 x gross wage = 280,000

Deposit required 20% = 56000

So in approx 30 months living very comfortably, you can save a deposit whilst still living comfortably and be a home owner within 30 months.

Can anyone explain to me why that is so hard? Now bearing in mind I have been more than generous with living expenses.

Not interested in single people's theories etc. As most people don't buy a house until they are married or in a relationship. There are exceptions of course and a single person earning a nice wage could also afford it reasonably easy.

2 people cannot live comfortably on €230 per week even after rent has been paid.

I see you've doubled the weekly expense.

Wanderer78

Moonjet wrote:

Interesting Limerick rents up 20.3% in a year. What's the explanation, lack of building in that area? People moving from surrounding counties for jobs?

Lack of supply apparently

893bet

Moonjet wrote: »

Interesting Limerick rents up 20.3% in a year. What's the explanation, lack of building in that area? People moving from surrounding counties for jobs?

Same as everywhere where rent is spiralling. Supply can’t meet demand.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Can't see it in the report, what are the values in the OP representing?

A 2 bed apartment?

cordy1969

amcalester wrote: »

2 people cannot live comfortably on €230 per week even after rent has been paid.

So what do you think 2 people need to live comfortably a week is.

I also doubled the figure if you read a few posts above and although takes longer for deposit to be saved still works.

BattleCorp

Seeing as the problem is the lack of supply, the Government need to get the County Councils building again. Set up building departments in every Council. And not outsourcing it to the private sector. Employ architects, blocklayers, carpenters, electricians etc.

All the above combined with an increase in the number of apprentices etc.

There'll be another big problem in the coming years as many tradespeople retire with nobody coming behind with the skills needed to replace them.

Moonjet

893bet wrote: »

Same as everywhere where rent is spiralling. Supply can’t meet demand.

Yeah I get that, just it's almost a double % than the average national yearly rise (11.3%). What is different about Limerick?

Berserker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Well, young people can afford a mortgage. They pay their landlord’s mortgage so the landlord an one day sell the property and enjoy the the money. Young people are less likely than any generation in recent history to have that because they’ pay the older folks’ mortgage for them.

And you are correct. Have to laugh at people citing lower interest rates as a reason why younger people have it good. Doesn't make a blind bit of a difference when you can't afford a mortgage in the first place.

Some people in Ireland just don't get the housing issue unfortunately. Had a conversation with the boss a few weeks back where he was whinging about a lad who was leaving because he couldn't afford to live in Ireland (Dublin or the commuter belt to be more specific) any longer. They cannot find a replacement for him because the salary on offer is not enough to find a place to live in Dublin, unless you want to share with someone else. The salary on offer is too low for the role, which is another issue entirely. They've managed to get by over the years by hiring people who need visas but those days seems to be coming to an end now.

BattleCorp

Moonjet wrote: »

Yeah I get that, just it's almost a double % than the average national yearly rise (11.3%). What is different about Limerick?

If rents were low in Limerick to begin with, that would skew the % rise.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Don’t worry about what I claim. The fact is that more people got mortgages back then...........

If it's a fact then quantify it in numbers.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Augeo wrote: »

Same chance of the current old folk having their pension reduced to SFA, SFA chance

It probably won’t be reduced to zero but the contributory pension already has caveats that mean many people won’t get the full pension. And the pension age will continue to increase.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It probably won’t be reduced to zero but the contributory pension already has caveats that mean many people won’t get the full pension. And the age will continue to increase.

That's positive.
If you don't contribute enough to the contributory pension than you shouldn't get the full amount.

LirW

cordy1969 wrote: »

The average married couple with no children with both partners working.

Average wage lets say $40k each

69100 taxed at 20% = 55280 annual
10900 Taxed at 40% = 6540 annual

Total income for married couple = 61820 annual

Nice Rental = 1800 p/m x 12 = 21600
Living comfortably weekly expenses = 1000 x12 = 12000 (not enough lets double it). 24000
Emergency fund = 400 x 12 = 4800

Total expenditure = 38400 (50400)

Total Balance left over for a deposit = 23420 ( 11420)

Current Mortgage 3.5 x gross wage = 280,000

Deposit required 20% = 56000

So in approx 30 (58) months living very comfortably (now we have doubled living expenses 58 months), you can save a deposit whilst still living comfortably and be a home owner within 30 months.

Can anyone explain to me why that is so hard? Now bearing in mind I have been more than generous with living expenses.

Not interested in single people's theories etc. As most people don't buy a house until they are married or in a relationship. There are exceptions of course and a single person earning a nice wage could also afford it reasonably easy.

That's almost 5 years. An awful lot can happen in 5 years. Rents could rise another third of what they currently are, one could lose their job because the job market turns and it's a lot more difficult finding work. They could have a baby earlier than planned. Their lease could be terminated and they have to move which would increase their costs. One of them could fall ill.

Maybe they get gifts and save more and buy earlier.

You're assuming life is static and the market is static.
Yes in Theory they could buy in just under 5 years and it doesn't seem too difficult when you're a bit prudent. But so much can happen in 5 years, it only makes the calculation valid on paper.

Ray Palmer

Moonjet wrote: »

Interesting Limerick rents up 20.3% in a year. What's the explanation, lack of building in that area? People moving from surrounding counties for jobs?

Taxes increased years previous and was not passed on, landlords had losses they needed to recoup and rent rose from a low point. Not complicated to explain or understand

cordy1969

LirW wrote: »

That's almost 5 years. An awful lot can happen in 5 years. Rents could rise another third of what they currently are, one could lose their job because the job market turns and it's a lot more difficult finding work. They could have a baby earlier than planned. Their lease could be terminated and they have to move which would increase their costs. One of them could fall ill.

Maybe they get gifts and save more and buy earlier.

You're assuming life is static and the market is static.
Yes in Theory they could buy in just under 5 years and it doesn't seem too difficult when you're a bit prudent. But so much can happen in 5 years, it only makes the calculation valid on paper.

Yes you are 100% correct, also the sky could fall down and the earth could flood.

Of course it's static, of course if you lose you job or have a baby things will take longer. All I was trying to say is it is affordable given the right plan.