Punishment??

smelly sock

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/five-criminals-selected-to-become-first-inmates-of-countrys-new-highsecurity-jail-unit-37511826.html

A high security unit.......

Lock me up now. So criminals are punished with a large screen tv and xbox one.

Why do **** do i bother going out to work.

No wonder there is such a high re offending rate.

Apologies mods if this is in the wrong place.

Sardonicat

smelly sock wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/five-criminals-selected-to-become-first-inmates-of-countrys-new-highsecurity-jail-unit-37511826.html

A high security unit.......

Lock me up now. So criminals are punished with a large screen tv and xbox one.

Why do **** do i bother going out to work.

No wonder there is such a high re offending rate.

Apologies mods if this is in the wrong place.

Why don't you read the article. You'll feel a whole lot better.

Commanchie

smelly sock wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/five-criminals-selected-to-become-first-inmates-of-countrys-new-highsecurity-jail-unit-37511826.html

A high security unit.......

Lock me up now. So criminals are punished with a large screen tv and xbox one.

Why do **** do i bother going out to work.

No wonder there is such a high re offending rate.

Apologies mods if this is in the wrong place.

Oh christ have mercy.

When on a p19 disicplinary report in irish prisons you dont have a xbox 1.

They are on no phone calls, no recreation (Rule 52 applies) no visits.

Have no idea where you got your info from but its wrong.

smelly sock

Sardonicat wrote: »

Why don't you read the article. You'll feel a whole lot better.

Yeh i did. So if they dont bottle anyone or seriously hurt eachother theyll get a go of fortnite. That makes it better doesnt it.

smelly sock

Commanchie wrote: »

Oh christ have mercy.

When on a p19 disicplinary report in irish prisons you dont have a xbox 1.

They are on no phone calls, no recreation (Rule 52 applies) no visits.

Have no idea where you got your info from but its wrong.

Tell me, when should you in a prison environment for committing a crime should you have access to an xbox 1?
Id say never can upset the pc do gooders.

Maybe they had a poor childhood though.

Commanchie

smelly sock wrote: »

Tell me, when should you in a prison environment for committing a crime should you have access to an xbox 1?
Id say never can upset the pc do gooders.

Maybe they had a poor childhood though.

Of course they are entitled to a computer. They are in prison for rehabilitation and to serve custodial sentence for their crimes.

They are entitled to whatever their families provide for them.

uck51js9zml2yt

What could possibly go wrong?

smelly sock

Anders Dead Minicam wrote: »

What could possibly go wrong?

Broadband goes down.

Samuel T. Cogley

Why is it that Noway and in general the Scandies have good prison conditions, low crime rate and low reoffending rates while on the other hand the US system fails to work but we seem intent on trying to emulate the later rather than the former.

It's a high rehabilitation unit dealing with extreamly dangerous offenders. Bravo to the Irish Prison Service for trying to do something to break the cycle of violent reoffending.

Commanchie

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Why is it that Noway and in general the Scandies have good prison conditions, low crime rate and low reoffending rates while on the other hand the US system fails to work but we seem intent on trying to emulate the later rather than the former.

It's a high rehabilitation unit dealing with extreamly dangerous offenders. Bravo to the Irish Prison Service for trying to do something to break the cycle of violent reoffending.

Take your progressive thinking elsewhere /Mod deletion. Pls be civil herel/.

brightspark

The money spent on that prison should have been spent on the homeless.

As for rehabilitation

"destined for the unit is Dubliner Leon Wright (29), who has more than 100 criminal convictions, been disciplined over 200 times while in prison and involved in attacks on 25 jail staff"

People like him should be put in an "oubliette", effectively a vertical pit, too deep to climb out. No way should they ever be let back out.

smelly sock

A lot prisoners cant be rehabilitated.

Commanchie

brightspark wrote: »

The money spent on that prison should have been spent on the homeless.

As for rehabilitation

"destined for the unit is Dubliner Leon Wright (29), who has more than 100 criminal convictions, been disciplined over 200 times while in prison and involved in attacks on 25 jail staff"

People like him should be put in an "oubliette", effectively a vertical pit, too deep to climb out. No way should they ever be let back out.

Leon isnt on his way to the CBU. Stop with fake stories.

Commanchie

smelly sock wrote: »

A lot prisoners cant be rehabilitated.

Says who?

Samuel T. Cogley

No, people like him should be under the care of properly trained professionals, in humane conditions, trying to figure out what's gone wrong and how to fix it. Perhaps if that had been the situation 99 convictions ago there would have been more money to spend on the homeless.

brightspark

Commanchie wrote: »

Leon isnt on his way to the CBU. Stop with fake stories.

I suppose Brendan isn't either?

Brendan Cummins, who has carried out at least a dozen assaults in prison including an attack on an assistant governor, who was repeatedly punched in an exercise yard at Cloverhill and on two other staff members in Mountjoy and the Midlands jails.

Or is the "high security jail unit" for TV licence evaders?

Commanchie

brightspark wrote: »

I suppose Brendan isn't either?





Or is the "high security jail unit" for TV licence evaders?

Brendan cummins is in Portlaoise in A Unit. He is from Dundalk. In for a stabbing

smelly sock

Commanchie wrote: »

Says who?

History and reoffenders.

Commanchie

smelly sock wrote: »

History and reoffenders.

History? Go on fill us in.

smelly sock

Commanchie wrote: »

Of course they are entitled to a computer. They are in prison for rehabilitation and to serve custodial sentence for their crimes.

They are entitled to whatever their families provide for them.

Kumbaya my lord kumbaya........

McCrack

You don't really have anything semi intelligent or constructive to say at all OP

brightspark

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

No, people like him should be under the care of properly trained professionals, in humane conditions, trying to figure out what's gone wrong and how to fix it. Perhaps if that had been the situation 99 convictions ago there would have been more money to spend on the homeless.

No he has had 99 chances.

Prison so far hasn't been a deterrent.

I really think we need something like the three strikes.

However it should offer rehabilitation in the earlier stages.

1st Offence, A secure form of boarding school, release subject to attaining grades (with assistance for genuine learning difficulties)


2nd Offence, Hard labour, with option of further education after a few months, fail to get on and back to the hard labour. (those on their first offence should be able to observe this)


3rd Offence, Throw away the key!

Commanchie

brightspark wrote: »

No he has had 99 chances.

Prison so far hasn't been a deterrent.

I really think we need something like the three strikes.

However it should offer rehabilitation in the earlier stages.

1st Offence, A secure form of boarding school, release subject to attaining grades (with assistance for genuine learning difficulties)


2nd Offence, Hard labour, with option of further education after a few months, fail to get on and back to the hard labour. (those on their first offence should be able to observe this)


3rd Offence, Throw away the key!

Is this Kim il Sung on boards.

Samuel T. Cogley

How has the three strikes rule worked out in the US?

It costs somewhere in the region of 75K a year to keep someone in prison. You're suggesting we should spend millions of euro on a single prisoner rather than put facilities in place to rehabilitate offenders?

smelly sock

McCrack wrote: »

You don't really have anything semi intelligent or constructive to say at all OP

Constructive? Scumbags with dozens or prior convictions mostly violent by nature should be locked up for life away from decent hard working people where they cant cause harm.

brightspark

Commanchie wrote: »

Brendan cummins is in Portlaoise in A Unit. He is from Dundalk. In for a stabbing

Portlaoise would be the "Midlands jail"

"In for a stabbing", is that all? He should have been given a warning and let off:rolleyes:

Samuel T. Cogley

The fact remains that we can emulate a working system or a broken one. I'll go with the working one thanks.

brightspark

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

How has the three strikes rule worked out in the US?

It costs somewhere in the region of 75K a year to keep someone in prison. You're suggesting we should spend millions of euro on a single prisoner rather than put facilities in place to rehabilitate offenders?

An oubliette wouldn't cost 75K a year!

smelly sock

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

How has the three strikes rule worked out in the US?

It costs somewhere in the region of 75K a year to keep someone in prison. You're suggesting we should spend millions of euro on a single prisoner rather than put facilities in place to rehabilitate offenders?

I think there comes a point where a person can no longer be rehabilitated and the objective then becomes protecting society and not the perpetrator of multiple violent crimes.

touts

Commanchie wrote: »

Says who?

Most of their victims and neighbours.

Luxury rewards for violent conduct???? We must be reaching peak "ahhh won't someone please think of the poor criminal".

Guys like this understand only one thing. Fear. They know how to manipulate and spread it in those around them. It is what gives their life meaning. It is their strength. And it is also their weakness. Make them fear prison and they will quickly reform their ways.

This will be a textbook mistake studied in colleges in 50 years when people look back at the liberal echo chamber we have lived in for the first 20 years of the twenty first century and wonder how we ever got through it without society breaking down around us. Thankfully there are signs that the wheel is turning. These lads should enjoy the fruits of their violent behaviour in prison. Hopefully before their sentences are up we'll have a government that isn't afraid to fight fear with fear.

HeidiHeidi

brightspark wrote: »

People like him should be put in an "oubliette", effectively a vertical pit, too deep to climb out. No way should they ever be let back out.

smelly sock wrote: »

Constructive? Scumbags with dozens or prior convictions mostly violent by nature should be locked up for life away from decent hard working people where they cant cause harm.

Given that this is never actually going to happen, do you have any actual constructive suggestions?

Samuel T. Cogley

brightspark wrote: »

An oubliette wouldn't cost 75K a year!

Ridiculous.

smelly sock wrote: »

I think there comes a point where a person can no longer be rehabilitated and the objective then becomes protecting society and not the perpetrator of multiple violent crimes.

The point is we've not the facilities to try - this facility is there to try with a tiny number of prisoners to see what can be done given the right resources. And yes that involves a carrott as well as the stick.

brightspark

Commanchie wrote: »

Is this Kim il Sung on boards.

Far from it,

I specifically allow the first offence to be reformative.

Most people get one shot at an education and manage to become productive members of society, just how many chances should those who not to be get?

smelly sock

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The fact remains that we can emulate a working system or a broken one. I'll go with the working one thanks.

Ours is broken. We have savage soft sentencing for the most horrifc crimes. We have a serious issue with reoffending. Our soft prison system must help perpetuate the cycle? Surely its time to try something different. People with hundreds of convictions have no part to play in society. Literally throw the key away.

Id say if you include playstation, large tvs and xboxes the 75k goes up a lot?

brightspark

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Given that this is never actually going to happen, do you have any actual constructive suggestions?

I did give a constructive suggestion.

Rehabilitation should be targeted at the first offence.

Do you really think someone with over 100 convictions can be rehabilitated?

Samuel T. Cogley

smelly sock wrote: »

Our soft prison system must help perpetuate the cycle?

Again compare the Scandinavian countries to the US.

touts

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

How has the three strikes rule worked out in the US?

It costs somewhere in the region of 75K a year to keep someone in prison. You're suggesting we should spend millions of euro on a single prisoner rather than put facilities in place to rehabilitate offenders?

Three strikes and life in prison was always a stupid policy. What we need is a three strike policy that nuters the criminal justice industry. On a third conviction you don't get life but you lose all the rights that the criminal justice industry manipulates to keep you on the street and therefore committing more crimes to help fund their new BMW or Ski trip.

Three convictions and you lose the right to bail. You lose the right to a reduced sentence from the judge. You lose the right to early release from the governor. For the third and subsequent conviction you serve the maximum sentence for the crime as set by the Dail and the representatives of the people not the sentence given to you by people who make their living by keeping you on the street committing crimes.

Commanchie

brightspark wrote: »

Portlaoise would be the "Midlands jail"

"In for a stabbing", is that all? He should have been given a warning and let off:rolleyes:

Youre aware the midlands and Portlaoise are different prisons?

brightspark

Commanchie wrote: »

Youre aware the midlands and Portlaoise are different prisons?

Someone had better tell the Irish Prison Service!!


https://www.irishprisons.ie/prison/midlands-prison/

Midlands Prison Dublin Road, Portlaoise, Co. Laois. Tel: 05786 72110 / 72100 Fax: 05786 72199

brightspark

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Again compare the Scandinavian countries to the US.

Perhaps the reason is the additional jail time if they fail to rehabilitate?

https://www.encartele.net/2018/04/what-can-us-correctional-facilities-learn-from-scandinavian-jails/

The maximum sentence is 21 years, however, five-year increments can be added onto a sentence if the Norwegian justice system finds that a prisoner hasn’t been rehabilitated.

In other words they know that prison isn't a revolving door.

I strongly suspect however the prison system isn't the only reason why they have less problems, it's likely that society is different there in a fundamental way that makes crime less attractive.

Commanchie

brightspark wrote: »

Someone had better tell the Irish Prison Service!!


https://www.irishprisons.ie/prison/midlands-prison/

Midlands Prison Dublin Road, Portlaoise, Co. Laois. Tel: 05786 72110 / 72100 Fax: 05786 72199

Hahahahahaha okay I think I better ignore you now.

Portlaoise is 1 prison, it houses republicans on E division and Rattigan alligned prisoners on C division.

A unit Is a segregation block that has freddie thompson ETC.

Midlands jail is a new prison built beside portlaoise. It has A(protection) B (Mainly dublin) C (Sex offenders and block) D (Limerick) and E and F violent sex offenders.

smelly sock

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Again compare the Scandinavian countries to the US.

Compare russia to the US.

smelly sock

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Ridiculous.



The point is we've not the facilities to try - this facility is there to try with a tiny number of prisoners to see what can be done given the right resources. And yes that involves a carrott as well as the stick.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rapist-eoin-berkley-gets-14-years-jail-for-attack-on-spanish-student-last-year-37481690.html
Maybe this poor fella could be sent there. Because we owe it to him

brightspark

smelly sock wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rapist-eoin-berkley-gets-14-years-jail-for-attack-on-spanish-student-last-year-37481690.html
Maybe this poor fella could be sent there. Because we owe it to him

A month before the abduction and rapes a garda inspector in the Dublin city area directed Berkley's detention under the Mental Health Act. He was seen by a doctor who deemed him fit to be released.

Berkley's 25 previous convictions include unlawful possession of knives and a realistic firearm and threatening and abusive behaviour.

I really hope that the doctor who released him isn't misled so easily again.

Unfortunately some people are too dangerous to be allowed freedom. Whether due to mental illness or just don't care about the effect of their actions on society.

Sardonicat

brightspark wrote: »

smelly sock wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rapist-eoin-berkley-gets-14-years-jail-for-attack-on-spanish-student-last-year-37481690.html
Maybe this poor fella could be sent there. Because we owe it to him

A month before the abduction and rapes a garda inspector in the Dublin city area directed Berkley's detention under the Mental Health Act. He was seen by a doctor who deemed him fit to be released.

Berkley's 25 previous convictions include unlawful possession of knives and a realistic firearm and threatening and abusive behaviour.

I really hope that the doctor who released him isn't misled so easily again.

Unfortunately some people are too dangerous to be allowed freedom. Whether due to mental illness or just don't care about the effect of their actions on society.

The Dr wasn't misled. The guy is not mentally ill and the Dr had no way of detaining him. Being "dangerous" is not a mental illness.

Dyr

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Why is it that Noway and in general the Scandies have good prison conditions, low crime rate and low reoffending rates while on the other hand the US system fails to work but we seem intent on trying to emulate the later rather than the former.

It's a high rehabilitation unit dealing with extreamly dangerous offenders. Bravo to the Irish Prison Service for trying to do something to break the cycle of violent reoffending.

Overall crime rates in the US have been dropping year on year for a long time.

Apparently locking up criminals reduces crime, who'd a thunk it.

Spon Farmer

smelly sock wrote: »

A lot prisoners cant be rehabilitated.

Yes, and a lot of prisoners can be.

nuac

Mod
Smelly sock, please do not post anything further to this thread

Spon Farmer

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Why is it that Noway and in general the Scandies have good prison conditions, low crime rate and low reoffending rates while on the other hand the US system fails to work but we seem intent on trying to emulate the later rather than the former.

It's a high rehabilitation unit dealing with extreamly dangerous offenders. Bravo to the Irish Prison Service for trying to do something to break the cycle of violent reoffending.

I did not know that about the Scandinavians. As long as it doesn't impact on the crime dramas, fair play to them.

ozmo

Remember these Will be let out at some stage - the more normalised when that happens the better the hope for their reintegration.
An XBox and tv costs nothing these days compared to continuing to make new cells for return visits.

hullaballoo

Too much sense in this thread for a Friday night. Are the pubs shut?

I don't buy this theory that some or many cannot be rehabilitated. Most can imo. It might take time and be expensive but it's definitely preferable to the current system of crime universities we have in the prison system.