Proposed changes to Irish rail commuter services from 9th December 2018

thomasj

Full details here:
http://www.irishrail.ie/news/december2018timetable

Full pdfs contained in link above alongwith, feedback process

Summary for Maynooth line passengers

Dublin/Maynooth/M3 Parkway/Longford

New earlier 05.58hrs Maynooth to Connolly
Six additional off-peak services each way daily Dublin Connolly to Maynooth (Mon to Fri) delivering half-hourly off-peak service during the day and up to 21.00hrs

13 additional off-peak services each way on Saturday Dublin Connolly to Maynooth delivering half-hourly service from 08.00hrs to 19.00hrs approx.

11 additional off-peak services each way on Sunday Dublin Connolly to Maynooth delivering:
Earlier first service from Maynooth at 08.00hrs
Half-hourly service on Sundays from 11.00hrs to 19.00hrs approx
Services extended to 23.00hrs approx. on Sunday evenings

M3 Parkway hourly service extended on Sunday evenings to provide connections at Clonsilla to and from later Maynooth services.
Alteration to running time of 17.17hrs Connolly to Longford between Mullingar and Longford

thomasj

Northern Commuters:

Northern Commuter


Three additional services from Connolly to Drogheda on Mondays to Fridays at 07.50hrs, 09.10hrs and 15.22hrs

Additional 06.52hrs DART Connolly to Malahide, to connect to northbound Northern Commuter service for customers from intermediate DART stations

Three additional services from Drogheda to Connolly on Mondays to Fridays at 09:00, 10:10 and 16:28
Results in increase in service to at least 2 trains per hour in each direction for majority of the day

22.05hrs Connolly/Drogheda service on Saturdays advanced to 21.45hrs.

New service on Saturdays from Connolly to Dundalk at 22:45

11 additional services on Sundays, delivering hourly service all day in each direction.

thomasj

and the PPT, Sligo and Rosslare lines

Phoenix Park Tunnel (Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch)

Hourly off-peak service on Mondays to Fridays between Grand Canal Dock and
Hazelhatch during the day and up to 23.20 at night.

Dublin / Sligo

Additional service Connolly to Sligo Monday to Friday: 06.55hrs and 09.05hrs Connolly to Sligo will operate, replacing existing 08.00hrs Connolly to Sligo
Saturday only 09.05hrs Connolly to Sligo will operate, replacing existing 08.00hrs Connolly to Sligo

Additional service Sligo to Connolly Monday to Saturday: 16.55hrs (17.00hrs Saturday) and 19.00hrs Sligo to Dublin Connolly, replacing existing 18.00hrs Sligo to Connolly

Altered running times to a number of existing services, including 07.05hrs Sligo to Dublin Connolly advanced to 06.40hrs

Dublin / Rosslare Europort

Monday to Friday: 17.33hrs Connolly to Wexford extended to Rosslare Europort; 18.35hrs Connolly to Rosslare Europort will terminate at Wexford

Saturday 09.40hrs Connolly to Rosslare Europort advanced to 08.05hrs

Sunday 09.45hrs Connolly to Rosslare Europort deferred to 10.25hrs; 09.30hrs Rosslare Europort to Connolly deferred to 09.40hrs

Mrs OBumble

They're proposing changes over a year in advance????

thomasj

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They're proposing changes over a year in advance????

Haha, thinking ahead too far!

L1011

Maynooth improvements badly needed and very welcome. Thought PPT might be half hourly off peak but it's a start and needed to get people used to the train if they want to stay anywhere close to the busconnects proposals.

Sightly concerned they're going to overwork the 29000s in to earlier failures though!

n97 mini

Still the same problem for me. Since Maynooth line lost weekend direct services to Pearse the bus is quicker to the city centre. I haven't used the train since.

Cookie_Monster

Three additional services from Drogheda to Connolly on Mondays to Fridays at 09:00, 10:10 and 16:28

Not really doing anything to help solve the morning rush mess on the northside...

thomasj

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Not really doing anything to help solve the morning rush mess on the northside...

From what I can see there will be Northern live services stopping at:

Portmarnock @ 07.11, 07.29, 07.42, 07.52 and 08.43

Clongriffin @ 07.45 and 07.55

Howth Junction @ 06.48, 07.15, 07.47 and 08.47

ongarboy

n97 mini wrote: »

Still the same problem for me. Since Maynooth line lost weekend direct services to Pearse the bus is quicker to the city centre. I haven't used the train since.

That's unfortunate. There will always be a few that are disenfranchised but I think the vast majority of Maynooth, Leixlip and Dublin 15 residents will gain from this and it will influence others who may have avoided trains up to now to consider it as a viable option because of the improved frequencies.

L1011

Only got to look at the timetable now, the Hazelhatch PPT and Heuston services are very well spaced (with one little wobble in the afternoon) to give a 30 min service to the city, albeit different stations.

thomasj

ongarboy wrote: »

That's unfortunate. There will always be a few that are disenfranchised but I think the vast majority of Maynooth, Leixlip and Dublin 15 residents will gain from this and it will influence others who may have avoided trains up to now to consider it as a viable option because of the improved frequencies.

This I have to agree with.

Just about squeezed on a 39a last night at 9pm on manor street tonight there was no room and waiting 15 minutes on the next one.

The notion of a luas to broombridge and a train to clonsilla, with that 30 minute frequency up to 9.20 has become more attractive.

Unless there's a drastic improvement to the 39A, that'll be my new way to work and back.

Rashers72

Re Northern Suburban line:
1. All morning time inbound journey times were increased in the Sept timetable. In the proposed December timetable, they are not planning to fix that. In fact, they have either left the longer journey times the same, or in fact have increased the journey times again on 3 of the 8 inbound suburban trains.
2. In the evening outbound in the Sept timetable they increased journey time of 3 of the 7 trains. In the December timetable they are now increasing journey time on 5 of the 7 trains v's Sept.
3. Re morning and evening peak trains on Sat - they scapped all the direct to/from Pearse and Tara St. While they have reversed 1 of the trains they removed from the pre Sept timetable, and now run that right through to Pearse, but I think they should rethink all the service cuts. And all still removed from the evening timetable. The transfer times to the DART are still very long, in Connolly with journeys still up to 30% longer to Pearse.
I think IE need to reverse out the journey time increases in both the Sept and proposed Dec timetable, and bring back the journey times in operation for the past 20 years I used it. Each year they just become more uncompetitive. But with NTA having no interesr in representing Northern Suburban line customers we just have to suck it up.

ParkRunner

Have to agree with the above. The Northern commuter train is below cycling speed at this stage once it hits Malahide and at a light jogging speed practically from Killester. Less trains but with more capacity that actually move through the system makes more sense

uxiant

ParkRunner wrote: »

Have to agree with the above. The Northern commuter train is below cycling speed at this stage once it hits Malahide and at a light jogging speed practically from Killester. Less trains but with more capacity that actually move through the system makes more sense

Less trains isn't the answer. Two new DART lines need to be created to Pearse via tunnels from Heuston and Docklands taking Maynooth and PPT trains out of the Connolly bottleneck. After that quad tracking the northern line would be another hugely positive step in improving transport in the city.

We've finally got our suburban rail network running to a half decent frequency for a city the size of Dublin. Reducing frequency would be a backwards step - now it's time to push on improving infrastructure.

ParkRunner

uxiant wrote: »

Less trains isn't the answer. Two new DART lines need to be created to Pearse via tunnels from Heuston and Docklands taking Maynooth and PPT trains out of the Connolly bottleneck. After that quad tracking the northern line would be another hugely positive step in improving transport in the city.

We've finally got our suburban rail network running to a half decent frequency for a city the size of Dublin. Reducing frequency would be a backwards step - now it's time to push on improving infrastructure.

The new frequency is great but is just leading to congestion and slower speeds rather than a decent service. Quad tracking the northern line would be ideal but I’m not aware of any proposal to develop this. Are there any plans to develop new DART lines to Pearse?

thomond2006

Will the PPT service ever connect to Cork/Limerick intercity trains?

SeeMoreBut

Issue I see with PPT is the connection time to a Heuston service is bad a lot of the time. 20+ minutes connection time is awful.

5-10 minutes should be more than enough. e.g. 15.20 from GCD leaves you with a 25 minute wait in Hazelhatch or just go to Heuston for the same train at 16.20

40 minute window from 7:36 to 8.15 from Hazelhatch but that one is 20 minutes before and after these where one the middle would suit people in work for 9

thomasj

Would this be a better option for Northern users, if it was to come to pass?
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/green-party-want-metrolink-to-extend-to-donabate-peninsula-36905255.html

I think the Broombridge LUAS and the new timetable will be a great thing for Maynooth line users and I think connectivity-wise, a metro connection would be brilliant for the Northern line.

bk

Rashers72 wrote: »

I think IE need to reverse out the journey time increases in both the Sept and proposed Dec timetable, and bring back the journey times in operation for the past 20 years I used it. Each year they just become more uncompetitive. But with NTA having no interesr in representing Northern Suburban line customers we just have to suck it up.

And yet this year more people will travel on Irish Rail and this line then any time in the history of rail in Ireland!

The simple reality is, the more services you have and the fuller the trains, the slower it will become (longer dwell times at stations, more congestion at junctions, etc.).

Carrying more people is more important then carrying less people faster. It isn't like you'd do any better by driving, the traffic congestion is even worse!

Of course we should be hurrying up with the Dart Expansion plans, which should help speed things up. Electric trains have faster acceleration, close junctions, triple and quad tracking and of course DU in the long term.

But those will likely take a decade or more, in the mean time they will have to try and just carry as many people as they can with what they have available.

People often complain that rains were faster 30 years ago, while forgetting to note that the rail network carries almost 3 times as many people today as it did 30 years ago.

bk

These changes are very welcome, in particular the big improvements off peak and weekends. It finally turns these routes into a proper all day, all week service and not just a peak time commuter service.

This sort of change was badly needed to maximise the use of these valuable resources we have in the rail routes. Hopefully we will see the same big increase in offpeak and weekend frequencies on the bus routes with BusConnects.

L1011

bk wrote: »

Hopefully we will see the same big increase in offpeak and weekend frequencies on the bus routes with BusConnects.

They are proposing to cut the offpeak and weekend frequencies to Celbridge, surreally. Those buses are already full with most pax being Celbridge-bound (I have occasionally been the only one left after Salesians!)

The early service may get me out of the car for occasional times I need to be in work for 730; plenty of others need to do it more often than me and could definitely be converted. As peak traffic problems get earlier and earlier, getting people off the roads then is certainly worthwhile.

ThunbergsAreGo

Are they planning on changing the Northern./Maynooth weekend trains not going to Pearse at any stage? or is this the new normal for these lines?

It makes me an awful lot less inclined to venture into town at the weekend

thomasj

naughtb4 wrote: »

Are they planning on changing the Northern./Maynooth weekend trains not going to Pearse at any stage? or is this the new normal for these lines?

It makes me an awful lot less inclined to venture into town at the weekend

I don't think so but I can get used to tHe Maynooth line with the Luas connection at Broombridge, I'd be probably more inclined to use that if I was going south of Connolly.

ThunbergsAreGo

thomasj wrote: »

I don't think so but I can get used to tHe Maynooth line with the Luas connection at Broombridge, I'd be probably more inclined to use that if I was going south of Connolly.

I asked on Twitter, this is a permanent change

Very disappointing

n97 mini

naughtb4 wrote: »

Are they planning on changing the Northern./Maynooth weekend trains not going to Pearse at any stage? or is this the new normal for these lines?

It makes me an awful lot less inclined to venture into town at the weekend

The loss of service to Pearse at weekends makes the bus from Leixlip quicker for me if I'm going to city centre (e.g. Westmoreland St area).

The M3 Parkway branch has lost a lot of attractiveness. 3 trains to get to Tara. Google maps is now not recommending the train at all for this journey from Dunboyne as the 70 is apparently quicker.

thomasj wrote: »

I don't think so but I can get used to tHe Maynooth line with the Luas connection at Broombridge, I'd be probably more inclined to use that if I was going south of Connolly.

I've only done it once. Wait time for connecting Luas was around 10 minutes and then Broombridge to Trinity took 30 minutes (traffic was bad). This is really poor compared to a through train to Tara, and even a properly timed connection in Connolly would beat it. EDIT: it's also more expensive. Adds €2.50 (cash) or 77c (Leap) to the cost.

I'm also seeing people on twitter going for the last connecting DART of the night, finding it's running late, and when they get to Connolly the last Maynooth train is gone. IE said if the connecting DART is running late they'll hold the Maynooth train, which doesn't seem always to be the case.

Unshelved

Rashers72 wrote: »

Re Northern Suburban line:
1. All morning time inbound journey times were increased in the Sept timetable. In the proposed December timetable, they are not planning to fix that. In fact, they have either left the longer journey times the same, or in fact have increased the journey times again on 3 of the 8 inbound suburban trains.
2. In the evening outbound in the Sept timetable they increased journey time of 3 of the 7 trains. In the December timetable they are now increasing journey time on 5 of the 7 trains v's Sept.
3. Re morning and evening peak trains on Sat - they scapped all the direct to/from Pearse and Tara St. While they have reversed 1 of the trains they removed from the pre Sept timetable, and now run that right through to Pearse, but I think they should rethink all the service cuts. And all still removed from the evening timetable. The transfer times to the DART are still very long, in Connolly with journeys still up to 30% longer to Pearse.
I think IE need to reverse out the journey time increases in both the Sept and proposed Dec timetable, and bring back the journey times in operation for the past 20 years I used it. Each year they just become more uncompetitive. But with NTA having no interesr in representing Northern Suburban line customers we just have to suck it up.

From a Northern Commuter perspective, I can understand that our journey is slowed down due to more frequent Darts (although why Malahide Darts always seem to be scheduled just ahead of southbound Northern Commuter trains in the evening is a mystery to me) - slowing the service down even further by stopping at stations already served by the Dart is a real sickener. It's just picking up the slack of a dysfunctional Dart timetable.

Furthermore, for those of us who work at weekends, or outside peak-time commuter hours, lack of service to southside stations is adding about 20 minutes each way to the commute.

The Northern Suburban Line has long been the poor relation of the Dublin rail service - and it will only get worse as we return to unrestricted building along the railway line through Dublin, Meath and Louth, and increased passenger numbers. Not Irish Rail's fault - but they could show a little bit more consideration towards those passengers - especially at weekends and outside rush-hour.

ixoy

The survey form doesn't even have an option for DART customers so I presume they're only looking for feedback on the new changes but have no interest in asking about the recent mess they've made in September?

Decuc500

ixoy wrote: »

The survey form doesn't even have an option for DART customers so I presume they're only looking for feedback on the new changes but have no interest in asking about the recent mess they've made in September?

Doesn't surprise me in the least. There is a real suck it up attitude to dart users. It's now a totally inadequate rush hour service and it's not going to get better any time soon.

Colonel Claptrap

Noticed a few people with clipboards counting passengers at Pearse this morning.

thomasj

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Noticed a few people with clipboards counting passengers at Pearse this morning.

Yeah that's the headcount that's done around the city every year , happens in november. Plenty of them counting passenger numbers on the buses as well at the moment

Edit: actually come to think of it, that was probably the annual Irish rail census. Last year's one was done on the 16th November.

Lord Glentoran

naughtb4 wrote: »

Are they planning on changing the Northern./Maynooth weekend trains not going to Pearse at any stage? or is this the new normal for these lines?

It makes me an awful lot less inclined to venture into town at the weekend

Changing at Broombridge for a frequent tram into the heart of the city centre isn’t exactly flying to Mars...

Lord Glentoran

thomasj wrote: »

Would this be a better option for Northern users, if it was to come to pass?
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/green-party-want-metrolink-to-extend-to-donabate-peninsula-36905255.html

I think the Broombridge LUAS and the new timetable will be a great thing for Maynooth line users and I think connectivity-wise, a metro connection would be brilliant for the Northern line.

Crayonism means delays. How much more will the Metro be delayed, FFS?

Lord Glentoran

L1011 wrote: »

They are proposing to cut the offpeak and weekend frequencies to Celbridge, surreally. Those buses are already full with most pax being Celbridge-bound (I have occasionally been the only one left after Salesians!)

The early service may get me out of the car for occasional times I need to be in work for 730; plenty of others need to do it more often than me and could definitely be converted. As peak traffic problems get earlier and earlier, getting people off the roads then is certainly worthwhile.

You ignore the proposals to have a frequent orbital bus service that will serve the Hatch inter alia plus more frequent trains.

L1011

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

You ignore the proposals to have a frequent orbital bus service that will serve the Hatch inter alia plus more frequent trains.

Realistically that orbital service serves previously unserved parts of Celbridge, not those that currently have and will get reduced service.

Lord Glentoran

L1011 wrote: »

Realistically that orbital service serves previously unserved parts of Celbridge, not those that currently have and will get reduced service.

Must have a look at the proposed maps for the orbital bus. However Celbridge isn’t so vast that an improved bus connection to the railway station and more trains are a disimprovement in real terms...

tubbs26

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Must have a look at the proposed maps for the orbital bus. However Celbridge isn’t so vast that an improved bus connection to the railway station and more trains are a disimprovement in real terms...

The proposed bus route from Hazelhatch to Leixlip Confey train stations is the best thing about bus connects.

It kills a number of birds with the one stone.
- It connects the Celbridge town to hazelhatch which is way outside the town.
- It serves areas with no bus services at present off peak
- It connects Celbridge and Leixlip which has no bus service at present

It provides a service that is not their now and adds to viability of using the train. Definitely an improvement

In fact I believe its to be introduced before busconnects goes ahead

With a light teak to the route it could also serve Intel and Leixlip Louisa Bridge (which I submitted as part of the bus connects consultation process)

Colonel Claptrap

There must be a lot of leaves...

Infini

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

There must be a lot of leaves...

Bugged display. Last trains dont show up right on the boards some nights since last xmas.

n97 mini

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Changing at Broombridge for a frequent tram into the heart of the city centre isn’t exactly flying to Mars...

Northern commuter doesn't go anywhere near Broombridge.

For Maynooth line users going home, who is going to want to risk a wait of up to an hour in the dark in Broombridge for a train.

Lord Glentoran

n97 mini wrote: »

Northern commuter doesn't go anywhere near Broombridge.

For Maynooth line users going home, who is going to want to risk a wait of up to an hour in the dark in Broombridge for a train.

Solution to cluelessness about train times is Timetables - available on a phone or leaflet, amazingly enough. Having lived in North Kildare I long ago learned the value of knowing what time buses and trains headed into the Wild West at.

n97 mini

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Solution to cluelessness about train times is Timetables - available on a phone or leaflet, amazingly enough. Having lived in North Kildare I long ago learned the value of knowing what time buses and trains headed into the Wild West at.

Seriously, considering the shítfests caused by Luas cross city and ten minute DARTs? If you still lived in North Kildare you'd know timetables are more aspirational than ever before. Though you'd also have plenty of time to study timetables on your phone while you were stranded in Broombridge etc.

TheChrisD

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Changing at Broombridge for a frequent tram into the heart of the city centre isn’t exactly flying to Mars...

No, but it is slightly more expensive. Not to mention that in reverse... well, you have to wait at Broombridge. And no-one with common sense will do that.

L1011

TheChrisD wrote: »

No, but it is slightly more expensive. Not to mention that in reverse... well, you have to wait at Broombridge. And no-one with common sense will do that.

I've done it. It's not what it was

thomasj

L1011 wrote: »

I've done it. It's not what it was

+1

I did it Friday night and the place looks much better.

Granted, it would do with the next train display , a few shelters and benches and a ticket machine but it's getting there.

My trip to Blanchardstown centre from town took nearly 1 hour 10 minutes - 5 minute wait for the Luas , 20 minute Luas journey, 5 minute wait for train, 7 minute train trip to castleknock and 30 minute walk to Blanchardstown centre via the village.

Took less than this week where it involved 30 minute wait for 39A and 45 minute bus trip

n97 mini

thomasj wrote: »

+1

I did it Friday night and the place looks much better.

Granted, it would do with the next train display , a few shelters and benches and a ticket machine but it's getting there.

My trip to Blanchardstown centre from town took nearly 1 hour 10 minutes - 5 minute wait for the Luas , 20 minute Luas journey, 5 minute wait for train, 7 minute train trip to castleknock and 30 minute walk to Blanchardstown centre via the village.

Took less than this week where it involved 30 minute wait for 39A and 45 minute bus trip

In fairness, that could have been a 5 min wait for the Luas, a 30 minute journey because of traffic, and a 55 minute wait for a train (soon to be a 35 minute wait).

Also, Coolmine is closer to the shopping centre than Castleknock station. It's a 20 minute walk. I used to do it until the 139 bus service started.

Lord Glentoran

n97 mini wrote: »

In fairness, that could have been a 5 min wait for the Luas, a 30 minute journey because of traffic, and a 55 minute wait for a train (soon to be a 35 minute wait).

Also, Coolmine is closer to the shopping centre than Castleknock station. It's a 20 minute walk. I used to do it until the 139 bus service started.

A whole nine buses a day! That’s one timetable you’d want to remember alright.

ollie103

Will some of the timetable changes on 9 December make any difference to the current congestion in the morning peak at Connolly? Such as no longer having the 8am to Sligo (replaced with two trains at 7am and 9am): might this free-up platform space and a train path to better accommodate the Sligo/Maynooth line services?

I ask as the 8.02 to GDC (PPT) is always late (why? Is there not enough time in the current TT?) and this delays all following south-bound trains. Might the freed-up platform (platform 7) avoid delays from the PPT service?

thomasj

December changes are now up on the journey planner from 9th December.

n97 mini

thomasj wrote: »

December changes are now up on the journey planner from 9th December.

Shows many ~25 minute waits, and a few 38 minute waits in Connolly if getting on in Tara or Pearse :rolleyes:

L1011

The journey planner has a huge minimum connection time that seems to accommodate a slow walk from P1 to p7. Even when it's p6 to p7