5 men arrested over burning Grennfell tower model

Hector Savage

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46106224

Five men have been arrested on suspicion of a public order offence in connection with a model of Grenfell Tower being burned on a bonfire.

A video shared on social media shows a cardboard model of the tower being set alight by a laughing crowd.

The Metropolitan Police said the men - two aged 49 and the others aged 19, 46 and 55 - handed themselves in at a south London station on Monday night.

Prime Minister Theresa May had called the video "utterly unacceptable".

Silly thing to do, not very funny, but these guys will probably spend time in jail now.


The UK has very dangerous Orwellian laws.
Crazy to think they have actually been arrested over this.

Shenshen

What kind of crime did they commit, though?

I'll be the first to say that it's not in good taste, but surely it's hardly criminal?

punisher5112

Complete fool's.

aaakev

Definitely poor taste, but criminal? Thats crazy

For Forks Sake

Shenshen wrote: »

What kind of crime did they commit, though?

I'll be the first to say that it's not in good taste, but surely it's hardly criminal?

Not unless the sassanach have made being a complete cúnt a crime...

Did no one actually read the article?

The men have been arrested under section 4a of the Public Order Act 1986, which covers intentional "harassment, alarm or distress" caused via the use of "threatening, abusive or insulting" words or signs.

I doubt they will be charged though, just a bollocking from the police and a warning not to do it again.

CrankyHaus

Edit: As Aegir pointed out what they did is an offence in the UK under hate crime laws. The same laws that are being pushed for over here by quangos like Pavee Point.

brainfreeze

Shenshen wrote: »

What kind of crime did they commit, though?

I'll be the first to say that it's not in good taste, but surely it's hardly criminal?

Harassment laws, something that causes offense. That's how people get arrested in the UK for being offensive on twitter.

It's a highly subjective dangerous law.

retro:electro

Absolute scrotes. How lacking in human empathy and just basic cop on must you be to do that.

punisher5112

I would love to see them having to do some unpaid work on their community what is it they call it...... Community service yes let's have them do some of that.

That's the lesson they need.


Think before you do something.

wakka12

Children burned alive..just awful to make a joke of\
But what was the crime..???

Assetbacked

It's nothing new to make extremely inappropriate jokes - the new phenomenon is to broadcast it when it should be done in private. Even where there is an argument that the video shouldn't have been made public it's sort of irrelevant as the fact is that it has been made public.

In these instances it is never, ever acceptable to advocate harm to the people who make such poor taste gestures as it is so subjective as to what constitutes inappropriate and what doesn't. The reality is that quite simply a tragedy was mocked by burning a paper model of the apartment block with paper model people in it and nothing more than that (sticks and stones etc.). The outlets and individuals broadcasting the video to generate anger and disgust are culpable in permeating the impact of the act so, in my view, the publications and people which give a platform to this deserve anger too and not just the individuals who carried out the act.

In terms of police engagement; if there should be a police investigation it should be to investigate the publications which provide a platform to spread this sort of stuff to the masses and not waste time targeting the individuals. But really there should be no police investigation, people have their own responsibility not to encourage something that they feel is extremely offensive.

Humphrey BoaGart

Bet they all voted for Brexit...

theguzman

It would be acceptable to make the joke if it was a luxury apartment full of rich white people, but when it was a council flat full of primarily illegal Muslim immigrants the PC left go mental. There has been a huge backlash against Grenfell in the UK as it has become unquestionable and so much so that charitys and NGO's found themselves scammed for millions and 10+ people have already been jailed for fraud as a result of lying to receive luxury hotel stays and pretending to be Grenfell tower victims. One guy was caught out lying that he was Gay and his partner was burned in the fire. whilst trying to fight deportation.

I would say it is because of this that you see incidents like this appearing.

bazz26

I'd say these 5 individuals are no loss to the scientific community anyway.

Hector Savage

retro:electro wrote: »

Absolute scrotes. How lacking in human empathy and just basic cop on must you be to do that.

Agreed, but it's a slippery slope when you start calling it hate speech ?
Sure anything could be hate speech, what if I burn a copy of the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins ? is that hate speech against Atheists ?

wexie

Hector Savage wrote: »

The UK has very dangerous Orwellian laws.
Crazy to think they have actually been arrested over this.

Aegir wrote: »

I doubt they will be charged though, just a bollocking from the police and a warning not to do it again.

I wouldn't be so confident, remember the girl that was given a community order for publishing rap lyrics (someone else's that is) in tribute to a friend?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921

A teenager who posted rap lyrics which included racist language on Instagram has been found guilty of sending a grossly offensive message

It's a crazy situation when the definition of a hate crime has gotten so broad as to pretty much include 'causing offence to someone'

The Pheasant2

Disgusting, tasteless "joke" from a pack of troglodytes...

That said, the idea that this is a police issue is OTT. The UK are going fairly 1984 with some of their laws these days, and I don't say that lightly.

suicide_circus

one day, all our senses of humour could be criminalised

retro:electro

suicide_circus wrote: »

one day, all our senses of humour could be criminalised

I have a very dark sense of humour and find almost feck all offensive but I just don’t see the humour in this. Its just stupid.

DChancer

Sick thing to do but cannot agree that it should be criminal or considered hate crime.

Brendan Filone

Vintage Britain 2018 that the only arrests over Grenfell Tower have been five scumbags burning a cardboard box in their back garden.

How about the odd arrest or two for the people who thought it was OK to house 200+ people in a building covered in solidified lighter fuel?

keano_afc

Arrested for burning an offensive effigy on a fire.

And this happened on bonfire night, when people up and down the UK burn an effigy on a fire.

Sardonicat

punisher5112 wrote: »

I would love to see them having to do some unpaid work on their community what is it they call it...... Community service yes let's have them do some of that.

That's the lesson they need.


Think before you do something.

They'll just take that as being victimised further. Scumbags. All adults aswell. This kind of sh1t is starting to scare me now.

Sardonicat

keano_afc wrote: »

Arrested for burning an offensive effigy on a fire.

And this happened on bonfire night, when people up and down the UK burn an effigy on a fire.

Spent the first years of my life in England. We were never allowed to participate in Guy Fawkes night for that very reason. Found it very confusing TBH

Richard Hillman

Meanwhile, there have been 118 Murders in London this year.

wexie

retro:electro wrote: »

I have a very dark sense of humour and find almost feck all offensive but I just don’t see the humour in this. Its just stupid.

I think Frankie Boyle is gonna have to either retire or emigrate

banie01

So on a night where Britain celebrates deliverence from a Catholic plot by burning one in effigy?
During a month where a Catholic/Nationalist and even more importantly Irish footballer is subjected to a barrage of abuse relating to his conscientious choice to not wear a poppy.
During a week in which the same Catholic/Nationalist/Irish footballer is being investigated by his employer and his governing body for his "retaliation" and abusive language, and will probably be referred to the police for further review...

5 lads make a piss poor attempt at "edgy and controversial" humour and they are arrested and interviewed under caution?
This is not a matter worthy of police intervention, its not a crime.
Its stupidity, its poor taste but not criminal.

If it is criminal, I'd hope that every single identifiable poster/commentator decrying those not wearing a Poppy are treated to the same degree of action.

"Free Speech" in th UK is becoming quite a contentious issue, there is a world of difference between Hate Speech, Incitement and Sectarianism, and plain outright stupidity.
Still, a "hate crime" by 5 lads sharing a stupid video counts as 5 ticks in the crime solved box
Rather than you know, catching 5 burglars?

Billy Mays

theguzman wrote: »

It would be acceptable to make the joke if it was a luxury apartment full of rich white people

Stop talking ****e

theguzman wrote: »

when it was a council flat full of primarily illegal Muslim immigrants the PC left go mental.

Theresa May's a PC lefty now is she?

Cato the Elder

Nonsense. Jokes in bad taste are a part of human nature. Who is the one who says when it is or is not too soon? If you can't specify that person and the reasoning, the notion should hold no legal ground. And who is it a hate crime against.


Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed.

Sardonicat

theguzman wrote: »

It would be acceptable to make the joke if it was a luxury apartment full of rich white people, but when it was a council flat full of primarily illegal Muslim immigrants the PC left go mental. There has been a huge backlash against Grenfell in the UK as it has become unquestionable and so much so that charitys and NGO's found themselves scammed for millions and 10+ people have already been jailed for fraud as a result of lying to receive luxury hotel stays and pretending to be Grenfell tower victims. One guy was caught out lying that he was Gay and his partner was burned in the fire. whilst trying to fight deportation.

I would say it is because of this that you see incidents like this appearing.

So, because some assholes used this tragedy to commit fraud ( it happens after ever high profile tragedy, BTW, 9/11 spawned some pretty cynical scammers)
the avoidable death of tens of people should be regarded as a joke? Tell that to the fire fighters and the emergency line operators who will be scarred for life by Grenfell. I'd suggest you tell it to the survivors but seemingly because (according to you ) they are mainly illegal Muslim immigrants their trauma doesn't count.

Harry Palmr

I suspect it was the stuff referencing Muslims that will tip this into hate speech or incitement (if it was shared with the kind of people who would be against Muslims of any type).

Anyway they turned themselves in - a buch of middle aged dicks.

retro:electro

Hector Savage wrote: »

Agreed, but it's a slippery slope when you start calling it hate speech ?
Sure anything could be hate speech, what if I burn a copy of the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins ? is that hate speech against Atheists ?

Eh I never called it hate speech. Gombeens for doing it and incredibly poor taste but I don’t see where a crime was committed.

mcmoustache

These laws are being very stupidly applied. We hear about some high profile ones like this and the rap lyrics but I wonder how many more of these thought-crimes end up with police intervention? Are the police over there spending a lot of time looking into "crimes" after some twitter or facebook user reports another?

It's becoming quite absurd and to make things worse it could become even more absurd. Wasn't the previous tory government looking into making online porn opt-in or something ludicrous like that?

Anyway, I'm sure there a solution to absurd laws. With some inspiration from the popular rhetorical trick, maybe the Brits should just start reporting everything that could be considered against those laws. It's such a broad law that an average person could find 5 or 10 incidents a day that violate it.

suicide_circus

retro:electro wrote: »

I have a very dark sense of humour and find almost feck all offensive but I just don’t see the humour in this. Its just stupid.

that's nice. however humour is subjective so you don't get to decide what's funny for other people. the state dictating what is or isn't allowed in terms of public expression is far more sinister than this stupid stunt

suicide_circus

The British state seems to be ramping up attempts to stamp out wrongthink recently

retro:electro

suicide_circus wrote: »

that's nice. however humour is subjective so you don't get to decide what's funny for other people. the state dictating what is or isn't allowed in terms of public expression is far more sinister than this stupid stunt

Do you think it’s funny?

suicide_circus

retro:electro wrote: »

Do you think it’s funny?

no but if these guys do then they should be allowed to express it without PC Jack Boot knocking on their door

retro:electro

suicide_circus wrote: »

no but if these guys do then they should be allowed to express it without PC Jack Boot knocking on their door

If they want to be morons they should at least have the decency to be morons in private. When they make their ignorant and shameful opinions public then there’ll be consequences to that.

major bill

Very bad taste but it amazes me how stupid or Naive people are to be posting stuff like that on Social Media.

DEFTLEFTHAND

retro:electro wrote: »

If they want to be morons they should at least have the decency to be morons in private. When they make their ignorant and shameful opinions public then there’ll be consequences to that.

But should the law and State be the ones to make them face the consequences?

Society has a way of dealing with these things. The accused should keep a very low profile going forward because something very bad is potentially coming down the line for them. And it aint no prison sentence.

King of Kings

retro:electro wrote: »

If they want to be morons they should at least have the decency to be morons in private. When they make their ignorant and shameful opinions public then there’ll be consequences to that.

perhaps they were in private.
seems to have been a private party in a back garden...we've no idea that the video was shared with their consent.....i'd bet it wasnt shared to the world with their consent or approval.

shocking state of affairs people.being arrested for this.

Immortal Starlight

Couldn’t believe this when I saw it on the news earlier. How could anyone think that was in any way funny. What a bunch of absolute morons.

retro:electro

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

But should the law and State be the ones to make them face the consequences?.

I’ve already said I don’t believe this to be an arrestable offence. Being an uneducated scrote isn’t a crime.
By “consequences” I’m speaking more in terms of public criticisms their behaviour and so called humour.
Me criticising their “joke” is not an attempt at policing their low life humour. I’m just stating my opinion.

wexie

mcmoustache wrote: »

These laws are being very stupidly applied. We hear about some high profile ones like this and the rap lyrics but I wonder how many more of these thought-crimes end up with police intervention? Are the police over there spending a lot of time looking into "crimes" after some twitter or facebook user reports another?

They have a special unit for it even https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/mayor-launches-unit-to-tackle-online-hate-crime

end of the road

theguzman wrote: »

It would be acceptable to make the joke if it was a luxury apartment full of rich white people,

i very much doubt it would be, thankfully. anyone making jokes about people burning to death in a fire are not people most people would want to associate with.

theguzman wrote: »

but when it was a council flat full of primarily illegal Muslim immigrants the PC left go mental.

the "pc left" have nothing to do with this. people all over the political spectrum have condemned this. there have been claims by ultra and far-right groups that the tower was full of mostly illegal muslim immigrants but those making the claims have been unable to show it. there were certainly some immigrants and muslims and a few of those were illegal but according to the government the amount is very small.

theguzman wrote: »

There has been a huge backlash against Grenfell in the UK as it has become unquestionable and so much so that charitys and NGO's found themselves scammed for millions and 10+ people have already been jailed for fraud as a result of lying to receive luxury hotel stays and pretending to be Grenfell tower victims. One guy was caught out lying that he was Gay and his partner was burned in the fire. whilst trying to fight deportation.


I would say it is because of this that you see incidents like this appearing.

the backclash toards grenfell is because of the demographics of the residents, and the fact the survivers are daring to seek answers for what happened and for expecting the council to do what they are obligated to do. it's nothing to do with this idea that somehow grenfell is unquestionable, which it isn't. making claims about the residents and being challenged and debunked does not make the issue unquestionable. nor is it anything to do with the few who have commited fraud and claimed to be survivers, some of who have been caught and thankfully dealt with as they deserve.

AllForIt

The ironic thing is that by arresting them they publicize the story even more thus causing even more offense than it would have caused.

L1011

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Edit: As Aegir pointed out what they did is an offence in the UK under hate crime laws. The same laws that are being pushed for over here by quangos like Pavee Point.

They aren't. It's old public order legislation and we have similar already

skooterblue2

punisher5112 wrote: »

Complete fool's.

"show me the difference between being an idiot and criminal and I will have my brother in law arrested and charged".

SallyAnne1997

I am in England often,
the cities are orible but the real rural parts are lovely

punisher5112

skooterblue2 wrote: »

"show me the difference between being an idiot and criminal and I will have my brother in law arrested and charged".

Where did I say it was.

Unfortunately for them they may well be made examples of.


I love a good joke and many comedians out there ripping the pee out of things and people but to be honest I think burning things is a bit silly.