Nissan Leaf - 30kwh or 40 kwh

Madisonmenece

Hi all

I would like to change to an EV as my daily commute is stretching to 150-160 km round trip. For me a car is a means of transport and would like to do it as cheap as possible, would the 30 kwh leaf do the above round trip as I could pick up a late 2017 or early 2018 model for circa 10-12k less than a 2018 40 kwh

We are going to upgrade our car anyway but a lot of fuel car be bought for the difference an 2018 leaf and other new competing non-eV cars.

Also would likely have a further 20km evening driving after reaching home.

Cheers

grudgehugger

I've been driving the L40 for 4 months now - have never driven the 30 however I would say you would definitely need the extra range of the 40 if you want to do your round trip plus the extra 20km on a single charge.

I drive 75-80k round trip each day and use up between 35-40% of the battery most days.

Shefwedfan

Go 40kWh if money is no issue

Also look at eGolf, Ioniq, i3, Zoe and Kona

AhHaor

In the present climate and ensuring a somewhat comfortable drive, the older gen leafs (2010-17) will get you about 4.2 km/kWh. Summer will be a bit more. Without a top up charge somewhere the L30 isn't going to work.

KCross

Madisonmenece wrote: »

Hi all

I would like to change to an EV as my daily commute is stretching to 150-160 km round trip. For me a car is a means of transport and would like to do it as cheap as possible, would the 30 kwh leaf do the above round trip as I could pick up a late 2017 or early 2018 model for circa 10-12k less than a 2018 40 kwh

We are going to upgrade our car anyway but a lot of fuel car be bought for the difference an 2018 leaf and other new competing non-eV cars.

Also would likely have a further 20km evening driving after reaching home.

Cheers

Any chance you could charge at work via a proper charge point or even access to a standard socket? That would give you more choice and hence cheaper purchase price.

Also, I presume you have a driveway for home charging?

ELM327

160km not dependable in a 30kWh leaf.
Look at Ioniq/egolf/leaf40/i3 etc instead

Soarer

For an easy life (maybe not €10k easy!), don't go for the L30 if you're mostly motorway and/or don't have charging at work.
I'd be looking at an L40/Ioniq/i3.

An i3 REx wouldn't be a bad option, but only if the car itself suits you.

The LEAF 40 in the current cool weather seem to do just under 200 kilometers N roads and local mixed driving so I would say L30 would be pushing it real close in the heart of the winter.

Madisonmenece

I test drove the new leaf and kona yesterday, much preferred the leaf over the Kona. The kona has the range but much less space and is close to 8/9k more for range I don't normally need. They did not have the ioniq in stock so will hopefully get a look at that next week.

I guess id like to do my normal driving range without plugging in until parking up for the night.

I have a night rate meter and in the country so no problem for getting charged.

Soarer

What sort of roads are you traveling on?

waynegalway

If it was me and I was assured of a reliable charger at work, I'd be very tempted to go for a 30 and save €10-12k. That's a lot of money saved for the "hassle" of plugging in at work. Think how many miles you'd have to do in the 40 to make up that saving.

Madisonmenece

Soarer wrote: »

What sort of roads are you traveling on?

Mixed roads I guess, I'd would be averaging 80 km/hr

Madisonmenece

waynegalway wrote: »

If it was me and I was assured of a reliable charger at work, I'd be very tempted to go for a 30 and save €10-12k. That's a lot of money saved for the "hassle" of plugging in at work. Think how many miles you'd have to do in the 40 to make up that saving.

There is a fast chargedown the street but it could impact my commute time trying to to up before hitting the road, it's a new work place so maybe I can ask if a Charging option is there

slave1

L30 owner, this car will not do the distance you’re looking at in cold weather, simple as that really.

KCross

Madisonmenece wrote: »

I guess id like to do my normal driving range without plugging in until parking up for the night.

Well, you did say

"For me a car is a means of transport and would like to do it as cheap as possible"

The cheapest way is to plug in at work (if thats possible) which then allows you to buy a Leaf, possibly even a 24kWh one (depending on the roads and speed you drive at). A 30kWh would definitely suit in this situation. Plugging the car in is only seconds. Its not a big deal.

All the other options and EV's are going to be much more expensive. Having said that, if you cant get work charging then you have no choice.

Just to give you an idea of fuel cost....

160km/day for 5 days for 48 weeks is 38400km's
Lets assume your commute is a mixture of M and N roads with an average of ~18kWh/100km so that would be ~7000kWh's @ 8c gives ~€550/year just for your commute. A diesel would be 4-5 times that.

KCross

Madisonmenece wrote: »

There is a fast chargedown the street but it could impact my commute time trying to to up before hitting the road, it's a new work place so maybe I can ask if a Charging option is there

I dont think anyone will recommend you tie yourself to using the public charging system on a daily basis. Thats not a viable option, imo.

Its either work charging and buy a cheap EV or else get a longer range EV that can do 200km with ease all year round on one charge. Those 200km EV's are hard to source (e.g. Ioniq) and/or are relatively expensive.

draiochtanois

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KCross

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Those stats arent accurate. They take the RRP price, which no one in the UK pays. EV depreciation has actually gone the other direction in the last 12 months with prices holding steady or even increasing.

And for a 160km commute a small petrol engine isnt going to be cheaper to run than an EV with or without depreciation particularly since (s)he isnt buying new anyway.

So, I'd say your suggestion and link are wrong. Just my opinion, you're entitled to yours.

Shefwedfan

draiochtanois wrote: »

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A small petrol? it would cost you a fortune in fuel.....

Shefwedfan

Madisonmenece wrote: »

Mixed roads I guess, I'd would be averaging 80 km/hr

Maybe a little bit more information.


Are you based in a city? if 50% in heavy traffic and 50% on N or M roads?


Electric will be option but you will need to spend a decent wedge of cash. I would not rely on a fast charger, plus you will need to be constantly moving the car or you will be meeting angry electric car drivers if you leave your car connected while not charging.....


Hybrid could be option or PHEV depending on requirements.

draiochtanois

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ELM327

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Can you mathematically illustrate an example for a 5 day 160km commute where a petrol is cheaper than an EV?
Because I cant

KCross

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Exactly, you believe the "small petrol" hypothesis and you sought out an article to confirm your bias.... i get it. Thanks.

Now, in the real world.... show me the figures that prove that a, say, €15k 30kWh Leaf doing 40k km's a year is going to cost the OP more than a "small petrol".

Give me the math rather than some ****e on the internet.

Shefwedfan

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

A small petrol would cost a fortune, a hybrid or a diesel would be a better option depending on roads used.....


Nothing about bias, hence why I asked about the type of driving, but even if they confirm type of driving a small petrol will not be an option....

or please explain how it would be?

Madisonmenece

Does it really matter where one would buy a new EV car, as in is the price tag In every garage the same.

The only other option would possibly be to get a used l40 in Q1 somehow

Shefwedfan

Madisonmenece wrote: »

Does it really matter where one would buy a new EV car, as in is the price tag In every garage the same.

The only other option would possibly be to get a used l40 in Q1 somehow

It does make a huge difference. I was looking at L24. My local garage I think wanted 26k or something like that for it new...

The other garage a few miles away wanted 23k for it....so you need to shop around. Dont rule out trying to get a 181/182 demo model either.



If you do want to go L30, Cavan Motors which was a Nissan dealer and has lost it, they have a demo L30 which has maybe 3-4k on it and is perfect condition. Like new. Might be option


I would guess with your requirement you will need to test the L30 on a cold day to see if range is issue

Also electric autos bringing in brand new L40's from UK, worth giving them a shout and see what they can do, depends of course on how you want to finance. Electric autos can't do PCP

macnab

My wife is commuting Meath to Dublin in a 30kW Leaf. 100km round trip. Currently with this zero degree weather she is averaging 18kW per 100km which equates to 155km max.
Thats 10 minutes B roads @ 80kph, 10 minutes M4 @ 120kmph, 10 minutes N4 @ 80kmph, 10 minutes M50 @ 120kmph, 10 minutes bumper to bumper.
Winter range is 80% of Summer range due to heating.
But even with social use added that still costs less than €10 a week on electricity on night rate.

creedp

macnab wrote: »

My wife is commuting Meath to Dublin in a 30kW Leaf. 100km round trip. Currently with this zero degree weather she is averaging 18kW per 100km which equates to 155km max.
Thats 10 minutes B roads @ 80kph, 10 minutes M4 @ 120kmph, 10 minutes N4 @ 80kmph, 10 minutes M50 @ 120kmph, 10 minutes bumper to bumper.
Winter range is 80% of Summer range due to heating.
But even with social use added that still costs less than €10 a week on electricity on night rate.

Is this potential max is calculated based on a 28Kwh usable capacity at 100% SOH? Leafspy reports my battery at 87% (+- 1%) SOH which, using the same basis, would give me a theoretical max range of 135km. I wouldn't like to have to commute beyond 130km without having access to a top up charge at this time of the year. While it might be OK to do 140km on a calm day with no unexpected detours for accidents etc, it wouldn't be worth the daily 'white knuckle' will I won't I experience on the way home!

KCross

creedp wrote: »

Leafspy reports my battery at 87% (+- 1%) SOH which, using the same basis, would give me a theoretical max range of 135km.

Its a side issue to this thread... but did you get the firmware update done on your 30kWh Leaf? It will likely increase that SOH figure if you havent.

Its also possible to see from LeafSpy whether you need that update or not by going into the service menu and getting the module versions. Its well documented that the early 30kWh Leaf's have a software error that shows a pessimistic SOH figure and hence also artifically reduces range.

Start a new thread if you want to talk through that.

creedp

KCross wrote: »

Its a side issue to this thread... but did you get the firmware update done on your 30kWh Leaf? It will likely increase that SOH figure if you havent.

Its also possible to see from LeafSpy whether you need that update or not by going into the service menu and getting the module versions. Its well documented that the early 30kWh Leaf's have a software error that shows a pessimistic SOH figure and hence also artifically reduces range.

Start a new thread if you want to talk through that.

Agree this is off topic and so requires a new thread but just to answer your Q no I haven't yet got the software update. Thanks for Leafspy tip

handofdog

Hyundai have a scrappage deal on the Ioniq which might be worth considering.

Shefwedfan

handofdog wrote: »

Hyundai have a scrappage deal on the Ioniq which might be worth considering.

Check if they can actually get one first.....scrappage is great off but not much use with no car at the end of it

unkel

The sales figures for Ioniq EV have been near zero the last few months. I'd say there are simply no cars available.

peposhi

Having driven all battery versions of Leaf I can assure you the L30 is great value, but will come with a lot of sacrifices and wasted nerves at charging points around the country. The L40 would perfectly cover your commute without the stress and range anxiety... if your budget can stretch - L40 is an obvious winner (your mental health and time is more important than the price difference)

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

The sales figures for Ioniq EV have been near zero the last few months. I'd say there are simply no cars available.

They are selling a few but the Hyundai dealers are buying from UK dealers and selling on as second hand cars so probably not registering on the new car sales......

zg3409

A Hyundai Ioniq would do 160 km guaranteed in all weather. In worst case you may not have much to spare for a few weeks a year but I get 200km reliably even in current temperature and motorway driving. There are a few ioniq's coming into Hyundai dealers, but you may get better value on used market, although prices are not dropping, more stable. If you can visit near Dublin airport I can show you my ioniq or specialist dealers may have some. See done deal and ring around. Ioniq is only 28kwh battery but gets much better range than 30kw leaf. There should be a few more used ioniqs on the market in the coming months as at least one irish person is switching to the 64kwh kona, and same is happening in UK.

Shefwedfan

zg3409 wrote: »

A Hyundai Ioniq would do 160 km guaranteed in all weather. In worst case you may not have much to spare for a few weeks a year but I get 200km reliably even in current temperature and motorway driving. There are a few ioniq's coming into Hyundai dealers, but you may get better value on used market, although prices are not dropping, more stable. If you can visit near Dublin airport I can show you my ioniq or specialist dealers may have some. See done deal and ring around. Ioniq is only 28kwh battery but gets much better range than 30kw leaf. There should be a few more used ioniqs on the market in the coming months as at least one irish person is switching to the 64kwh kona, and same is happening in UK.

The second hand Ioniq with mileage are as rare as hens teeth. I know one guy posted he was selling his because he bought Kona, in a few hours someone had their name on it....

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The second hand Ioniq with mileage are as rare as hens teeth. I know one guy posted he was selling his because he bought Kona, in a few hours someone had their name on it....

Was that a chap on facebook? Do you know roughly how much he got for it?
Curious as I'd like to update my depreciation figures

unkel

Cheapest you'd ever see one is GBP20k from the UK. And some of these would be on 162 plates, some on 171. That would cost you a good bit over EUR23k landed. So that's your base point really. I'd expect a 171 on a private sale still to fetch about EUR23-24k. Maybe even more? The cars still have over 3 years warranty and over 5 years on the battery / drivetrain. Not much of a draw back from buying privately over buying from dealer. Can't see the difference being much more than EUR1-2k

zg3409

I am not saying this one is still for sale, but says Dublin and 43 days advertised:

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/electric-auto-bluetooth-audio-apple-play-/19653271

Ioniq €23,950 , a very good price, possibly too low and already sold, high mileage.

Slaanesh

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Go 40kWh if money is no issue

Also look at eGolf, Ioniq, i3, Zoe and Kona

Go Tesla if money is no issue

Madisonmenece

Slaanesh wrote: »

Go Tesla if money is no issue

Id hope to spend as little as possible on motoring so think a tesla is a while off.

I think the new e-golf is pulling inline with the leaf, only one to give offer 3k scrappage and the only that offers PCP as an option.

Ioniq seems to rare or limited availability and kona too expensive.

unkel

zg3409 wrote: »

I am not saying this one is still for sale, but says Dublin and 43 days advertised:

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/electric-auto-bluetooth-audio-apple-play-/19653271

Ioniq €23,950 , a very good price, possibly too low and already sold, high mileage.

Must say I haven't seen one from a used car dealer in Ireland that cheaply before. And there is almost zero added value from a used car dealer compared to private sale. Without exception, main Hyundai dealer prices, even for cars now 2 years old, are more than I paid for mine brand new on the road.

Madisonmenece wrote: »

Id hope to spend as little as possible on motoring so think a tesla is a while off.

You could minimise your spending if you could arrange work charging. A cheap €9k 141 Leaf 24kWh would do then...

Baller23

Would like to check out the Leaf ultra but the 64 kw kona is the best performance ev out there for the money, sadly the Irish version is ****e, it's a basic SE, with hardly any of the features available in all other Euro variants, extremely disappointed. Will wait with baited breath for the E-Niro.

unkel

Baller23 wrote: »

Would like to check out the Leaf ultra

What is the Leaf ultra?

Madisonmenece

Hi all,

So I can source either leaf or ioniq, ioniq has the cloth style seats. Has anyone opted for this interior as the leaf has leather which is a preference. I haven't Got to test drive The ioniq as yet.

BigAl81

Madisonmenece wrote:

So I can source either leaf or ioniq, ioniq has the cloth style seats. Has anyone opted for this interior as the leaf has leather which is a preference. I haven't Got to test drive The ioniq as yet.

Leaf with leather is 33k on the road. Can get the Ioniq for a little over 25k if you have a scrappage car and don't get metallic paint!

That's a lot of money to pay for leather seats!

Looking at both cars myself and was surprised to learn the 28kWh Ioniq has the same range as the 40kWh Leaf!!

Most Dublin based dealers will have a test drive car next week and January delivery on the Ioniq. Very tempting at 25k!!

Would adding that Scotchguard or what ever it's called add on to the fabric go someway to making up the difference of not having leather. It's putting me off a the moment. That and the lack of an app ;(

unkel

BigAl81 wrote: »

Leaf with leather is 33k on the road.

That's a lot of money. Are you sure it's that much?

Madisonmenece

To be honest I thought the Mid range leaf and Ionic were more or less on equal purchase prices.

BigAl81

The base Leaf 40 is nearly 29k, check the website. The SVE is 33k! And that doesn't include self parking option which is another 1,700!

I got a quote of 26.3k on the road for an Ioniq with no metallic paint and taking them up on their scrappage offer. That's some difference.

Shefwedfan

BigAl81 wrote: »

The base Leaf 40 is nearly 29k, check the website. The SVE is 33k! And that doesn't include self parking option which is another 1,700!

I got a quote of 26.3k on the road for an Ioniq with no metallic paint and taking them up on their scrappage offer. That's some difference.

The Leaf was released this year

The Ioniq was released in 2017....its a car due a mid cycle refresh.....


It should be cheaper to the Leaf 2