Zappone says Ireland is "transitioning from a history of gender injustice"

On 9pm news tonight. Do you agree? Threads about gender issues along with threads about Travellers and Dole Scroungers (not quite sure if that's a proper noun yet but feck it) never make an appearance in After Hours due to widespread censorship so I'm just looking for one brave warrior here who will make a stand and speak truth to power about this gender malarkey. Is she right about gender injustice?



Abuse survivors need truth-telling process - Zappone

mammajamma

She should transition her non-irish arse out of the country

Gatling

She has a valid point ,

Women were treated woefully in this country for best part of a century if not longer based off religious total power and abuse of that power,

Seems like she's suggesting a truth and reconciliation scheme , it would be interesting to see if if could be done without massive amounts of caveats given to the church to protect them

bazz26

I'd pay good money to send her back to Trumpland.

Redneck Culchie

mammajamma wrote: »

She should transition her non-irish arse out of the country

She'll be voted out next time thankfully

nullzero

I take issue with the notion that injustices in relation to these things were "in place since the foundation of the state" as if the Irish Republic was founded upon principles of oppression and injustice.

The world has moved on over the time since the Irish state was formed, and yes there are things we have had to and still have to deal with that are less than pleasant from our past but we are hardly alone as a nation in having to deal with these issues.

Otherwise what she's saying is fair enough, but an elected representative of this country may do well to have a slightly more sympathetic attitude towards the nation and its past rather than to paint us as having been little more than willing participants in people's suffering which is not a fair reflection of the reality of our history regardless of it's undeniably unsavoury elements.

The Bishop Basher

There are certain words that make me immediately switch off and tune out.

“Gender” is one of them.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

mammajamma wrote: »

She should transition her non-irish arse out of the country

That’s an interesting paraphrase of “she should fück off home”. She’s an Irish citizen, no?

Redneck Culchie

middelsburgh wrote: »

why is that bithc always attacking our religion and our faith
we don't ask her her religious background
very extreme anti-catholic agenda

Shes a lesbian, seems to hate Catholics

mammajamma

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

That’s an interesting paraphrase of “she should fück off home”. She’s an Irish citizen, no?

Yeah, sure just this morning I wrote something on a bit of a paper and gave it to my dog. He's now a cat.

Fancy that!

Sardonicat

middelsburgh wrote: »

Fuaranach wrote: »

On 9pm news tonight. Do you agree? Threads about gender issues along with threads about Travellers and Dole Scroungers (not quite sure if that's a proper noun yet but feck it) never make an appearance in After Hours due to widespread censorship so I'm just looking for one brave warrior here who will make a stand and speak truth to power about this gender malarkey. Is she right about gender injustice?



Abuse survivors need truth-telling process - Zappone

why is that bithc always attacking our religion and our faith
we don't ask her her religious background
very extreme anti-catholic agenda

"Our"?

Sardonicat

middelsburgh wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

"Our"?

obviously not bunches of sticks like your good self

I have no idea what that means.
You do know that not everyone who is Irish is a Catholic, right?

JupiterKid

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

She'll be voted out next time thankfully

Unlikely. I think Zappone has been a pretty good Minister and she is very popular in her secular Dublin constituency. But please feel free to vote Danny Healy Rae or some such populist gombeen parochial right wing candidate in the next GE.

It's called democracy...

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

A fair amount of alter boys had a rough time of it during the last 100 years in this country too.

Gimme A Pound

middelsburgh wrote: »

are you saying her religion is better than ours

Maybe she's an atheist but I think she was baptised Catholic? I think she's Italian - could be wrong. She went to a Catholic college and her late wife was a nun for a while and although she left the order I think she continued to practise her faith.

Dislike of the organisation doesn't mean dislike of the religion or all who practise it.

Seeking an apology for the victims of abuse in church-run institutions certainly doesn't mean anti Catholic either. Although gender injustice is a strange way of putting it. I know there were appalling attitudes towards women and girls but boys endured terrible abuses too.

Redneck Culchie

JupiterKid wrote: »

Unlikely. I think Zappone has been a pretty good Minister and she is very popular in her secular Dublin constituency. But please feel free to vote Danny Healy Rae or some such populist gombeen parochial right wing candidate in the next GE.

It's called democracy...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fg-decision-to-nominate-dunlop-sees-party-target-zappone-s-seat-1.3681890?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Ffg-decision-to-nominate-dunlop-sees-party-target-zappone-s-seat-1.3681890

Fine Gael running a woman from womans council and rape crisis centre to get her out.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

mammajamma wrote: »

Yeah, sure just this morning I wrote something on a bit of a paper and gave it to my dog. He's now a cat.

Fancy that!

You don’t think that conferring citizenship of a country on a person means anything? Why is that? Are all those people who attend the citizenship ceremony every year not actually citizens of Ireland? You really need to alert people to this!

Redneck Culchie

Mustafa Scary Bubble wrote: »

Maybe she's an atheist but I think she was baptised Catholic? I think she's Italian - could be wrong. She went to a Catholic college and her late wife was a nun for a while and although she left the order I think she continued to practise her faith.

Dislike of the organisation doesn't mean dislike of the religion or all who practise it.

Seeking an apology for the victims of abuse in church-run institutions certainly doesn't mean anti Catholic either. Although gender injustice is a strange way of putting it. I know there were appalling attitudes towards women and girls but boys endured terrible abuses too.

Boys were sexually abused much more in abuse scandals but that doesnt suit the radical feminist agenda

professore

There is something creepy and cultish about her.

mammajamma

Mustafa Scary Bubble wrote: »

Maybe she's an atheist but I think she was baptised Catholic? I think she's Italian - could be wrong. She went to a Catholic college and her late wife was a nun for a while and although she left the order I think she continued to practise her faith.

Dislike of the organisation doesn't mean dislike of the religion or all who practise it.

Seeking an apology for the victims of abuse in church-run institutions certainly doesn't mean anti Catholic either. Although gender injustice is a strange way of putting it. I know there were appalling attitudes towards women and girls but boys endured terrible abuses too.

Jut from the brief description there she sounds like shes lived some kind of whacko life altogether, and not the jacko kind either.

Theres something really unlikeable about a person not from here, being paid by people from here to tell the people here what to do. It just rubs the wrong way.

Just imagine the inverse, an irish bloke heads over to France in his 40's, then manages to gain a prominent French governmental position guiding the direction of france.

What?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

middelsburgh wrote: »

are you saying her religion is better than ours

Well, that was almost a coherent sentence. I’m sure you know what you meant by it.

One eyed Jack

Fuaranach wrote: »

Is she right about gender injustice?

Nope, she’s not, not by a long shot, but she’s fairly fluent in meaningless double-speak -

Mealy-mouthed meaningless soundbite spin:

The minister said that there is a need for a truth recovery or truth-telling process with victims and survivors of institutional abuse at its core.

She added: "We need a truth recovery or truth telling process with victims and survivors at its core.

"Such an approach will need to encompass the breadth and depth of their experiences. It would lead to the recording and acknowledging of what is our shared national truth"

Reality:

She acknowledged that there may be legal challenges when designing such a commission or vehicle

mammajamma

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You don’t think that conferring citizenship of a country on a person means anything? Why is that? Are all those people who attend the citizenship ceremony every year not actually citizens of Ireland? You really need to alert people to this!

Yeah, I'll be down with my former dog in the morning to warn everyone.

Of the bleeding obvious.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

mammajamma wrote: »

Yeah, I'll be down with my former dog in the morning to warn everyone.

Of the bleeding obvious.

Which is what?

mammajamma

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Which is what?

Sardonicat

mammajamma wrote: »

Mustafa Scary Bubble wrote: »

Maybe she's an atheist but I think she was baptised Catholic? I think she's Italian - could be wrong. She went to a Catholic college and her late wife was a nun for a while and although she left the order I think she continued to practise her faith.

Dislike of the organisation doesn't mean dislike of the religion or all who practise it.

Seeking an apology for the victims of abuse in church-run institutions certainly doesn't mean anti Catholic either. Although gender injustice is a strange way of putting it. I know there were appalling attitudes towards women and girls but boys endured terrible abuses too.

Jut from the brief description there she sounds like shes lived some kind of whacko life altogether, and not the jacko kind either.

Theres something really unlikeable about a person not from here, being paid by people from here to tell the people here what to do. It just rubs the wrong way.

Just imagine the inverse, an irish bloke heads over to France in his 40's, then manages to gain a prominent French governmental position guiding the direction of france.

What?

What?

A naturalised citizen of a country being democratically chosen by the people of that country to represent them in the country's parliament ??

Crazy stuff altogether!

Gimme A Pound

mammajamma wrote: »

Jut from the brief description there she sounds like shes lived some kind of whacko life altogether, and not the jacko kind either.

I dunno. She went to college. She met Ann Louise while studying. They were both interested in education and theology. They were together for about 35 years. Seems like they had a lot in common. From an interview I saw with them they seemed very well adjusted and level headed.

Theres something really unlikeable about a person not from here, being paid by people from here to tell the people here what to do. It just rubs the wrong way.

Just imagine the inverse, an irish bloke heads over to France in his 40's, then manages to gain a prominent French governmental position guiding the direction of france.

What?

Yeah she comes across preachy at times but she has her citizenship, made Ireland her home and was in a marriage with an Irish national. She contributed a lot with the education centre they set up in Tallaght.

I get people questioning the status she has been granted and the way she can be kinda po-faced, but when people start being hostile just because she's a gay woman, I've no time for that.

TheValeyard

Once she starts speaking, my mind just zones out. I cant help it at this stage.

mammajamma

Sardonicat wrote: »

What?

A naturalised citizen of a country being democratically chosen by the people of that country to represent them in the country's parliament ??

Crazy stuff altogether!

There isn't much democratic about the tweedle dum/tweedle dee choices put forward by this countries ruling elite.

You act as though this is the most normal thing in the world, but you know yourself, all that crap is increasingly tired and ragged looking. Most people don't like it, in my opinion, so the only thing you have to worry about is that they get motivated enough to show their dislike.

I think they will. But sure we'll see, wont we

Rubberchikken

Yes people had it hard. Women had it tough. Blah blah.
Cannot stand this woman. Sonething about her makes me very uncomfortable. And thats saying something as a person who trusts no politician.

Sardonicat

mammajamma wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

What?

A naturalised citizen of a country being democratically chosen by the people of that country to represent them in the country's parliament ??

Crazy stuff altogether!

There isn't much democratic about the tweedle dum/tweedle dee choices put forward by this countries ruling elite.

You act as though this is the most normal thing in the world, but you know yourself, all that crap is increasingly tired and ragged looking. Most people don't like it, in my opinion, so the only thing you have to worry about is that they get motivated enough to show their dislike.

I think they will. But sure we'll see, wont we

Do you understand how Democracy works?

The "ruling elite" as you describe them, are voted for by the people. WE elect them. WE put them there. You don't like who's in power? Vote for someone else.That's how you show your dislike. And it is perfectly normal for a citizen, be they native or naturalised to run for election in their country. It's not new. Why don't you put yourself forward as a candidate?

Sardonicat

middelsburgh wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

Do you understand how Democracy works?

The "ruling elite" as you describe them, are voted for by the people. WE elect them. WE put them there. You don't like who's in power? Vote for someone else.That's how you show your dislike. And it is perfectly normal for a citizen, be they native or naturalised to run for election in their country. It's not new. Why don't you put yourself forward as a candidate?

so you are saying zappone is right to come into our country and attack our God
that sh1t may fly up in the Pale
but she may keep away from the midlands

I thought we'd established it's passed your bedtime

mammajamma

Sardonicat wrote: »

Do you understand how Democracy works?

The "ruling elite" as you describe them, are voted for by the people. WE elect them. WE put them there. You don't like who's in power? Vote for someone else.That's how you show your dislike. And it is perfectly normal for a citizen, be they native or naturalised to run for election in their country. It's not new. Why don't you put yourself forward as a candidate?

You know exactly the point being made, and simple-simon questions like " you democracy understand?!" is just a waste of time.

Or heres and answer for placation! Person A and B are put forward by ruling parties A and B in whatever election. If youre lucky Person A and B might have the fundamental differences of a different-coloured tie.

Media, basically in the back pocket of governmental parties, promotes person A and B, blocking out options in a way that they can JUST about get away it.

Handily enough, any kind of referendum or question put to the public always seems to be backed 100% by both party A and party B on the same side. Weirrrrrdddd!!!

Someone dares to speak against it? State the obvious, respond with "do you even DO democracy?!" And the tired attempt at disenfranchisement, "Why don't you run yourself, its totally a exemplary democracy, dude!"

That crap, as already said, isn't going to be around forever, not the way things are going. There are many squeaky bums already, I would imagine.

JupiterKid

The bang of rank xenophobia off some posts on this thread is very palpable and deeply unpleasant.

mammajamma

JupiterKid wrote: »

The bang of rank xenophobia off some posts on this thread is very palpable and deeply unpleasant.

Welcome to the real world, then. Unless you're seeing rainbows and stardust everytime you observe the current state of things? Bubbelicious?

Sardonicat

mammajamma wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

Do you understand how Democracy works?

The "ruling elite" as you describe them, are voted for by the people. WE elect them. WE put them there. You don't like who's in power? Vote for someone else.That's how you show your dislike. And it is perfectly normal for a citizen, be they native or naturalised to run for election in their country. It's not new. Why don't you put yourself forward as a candidate?

You know exactly the point being made, and simple-simon questions like " you democracy understand?!" is just a waste of time.

Or heres and answer for placation! Person A and B are put forward by ruling parties A and B in whatever election. If youre lucky Person A and B might have the fundamental differences of a different-coloured tie.

Media, basically in the back pocket of governmental parties, promotes person A and B, blocking out options in a way that they can JUST about get away it.

Handily enough, any kind of referendum or question put to the public always seems to be backed 100% by both party A and party B on the same side. Weirrrrrdddd!!!

Someone dares to speak against it? State the obvious, respond with "do you even DO democracy?!" And the tired attempt at disenfranchisement, "Why don't you run yourself, its totally a exemplary democracy, dude!"

That crap, as already said, isn't going to be around forever, not the way things are going. There are many squeaky bums already, I would imagine.

Your imagination is excellent.

mammajamma

Sardonicat wrote: »

Your imagination is excellent.

Keep it up. See how much longer that attitude is going to last, see how many people it wins over.

The "sure its all grand" b*llocks has had its day.

And again, this isn't ethereal, we will both see in reality where it goes. You have money on your bet, Ive got mine.

Sardonicat

What attitude?

The attitude of not thinking only citizens born here should be in the Dail. Isn't that your issue?

What do you think to going to happen ? Some kind of uber nationalist dictatorship?

JupiterKid

I see the future of this thread...

...multiple bannings and a thread lock. :rolleyes:

JohnnyFlash

Zappone was friendly with Enda Kenny, and he could always count on her as a FG friendly independent.

Now they intend to run a strong candidate against her in an effort to gain an extra seat in that constituency.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fg-decision-to-nominate-dunlop-sees-party-target-zappone-s-seat-1.3681890

Ellen Dunlop was the CEO of the Rape Crisis Centre for 10 years so is a strong progressive candidate for the party. Zappone’s seat is in real danger.

If she does retain it then it will be at the expense of that vindictive little toad, Paul Murphy.

Irish Guitarist

Zappone shut up 'n play yer guitar.

Outlaw Pete

If girls being abused by the church was 'gender injustice' then what of abuse like this? What umbrella term do we get to employ when referring to them? Should we have one? Or would it not just be better that we accept that those in the church who were guilty of such crimes really didn't give two ****s if kids were male or female, they abused them if they thought they could get away with it.

Truth is Zappone is just trying to use tragic issues from our past as leverage for what she wants today.

McDermotX

Dunno about the rest of ye, but I'm fed up hearing from this one.

There's a right gaggle of clowns at the wheel of this country.

padd b1975

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Zappone was friendly with Enda Kenny, and he could always count on her as a FG friendly independent.

Now they intend to run a strong candidate against her in an effort to gain an extra seat in that constituency.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fg-decision-to-nominate-dunlop-sees-party-target-zappone-s-seat-1.3681890

Ellen Dunlop was the CEO of the Rape Crisis Centre for 10 years so is a strong progressive candidate for the party. Zappone’s seat is in real danger.

If she does retain it then it will be at the expense of that vindictive little toad, Paul Murphy.

It was in danger without a high profile candidate being added to the ballot paper.
She was one of the last to be elected last time out-on the sixteenth count I think.
Add in her travel expenses fiddling and flirting with the Muslim Brotherhood together with her naive performance as a minister means it's unlikely she'll be re-elected.

Try_harder

Is Zappones statement factually correct - yes

quintana76

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

If girls being abused by the church was 'gender injustice' then what of abuse like this? What umbrella term do we get to employ when referring to them? Should we have one? Or would it not just be better that we accept that those in the church who were guilty of such crimes really didn't give two ****s if kids were male or female, they abused them if they thought they could get away with it.

Truth is Zappone is just trying to use tragic issues from our past as leverage for what she wants today.

She is on an anti-catholic crusade.
She doesn't apply the same strict standards to Islam. In particular the Muslim Brotherhood version to which she seems to have a very definite attraction and support for.
Hopefully she pays the price at the next election.

DChancer

middelsburgh wrote: »

why is that bithc always attacking our religion and our faith
we don't ask her her religious background
very extreme anti-catholic agenda

Because YOUR Religion has been responsible for enormous pain and suffering in this country!
Personally I would like to see it banned.

EdgeCase

Considering all the stuff the state and the church did to women over the decades, yes it was institutionally very nasty to women: Magdalene Laundries, banning access to contraception, symphysiotomy scandal and then things like the forced retirement of married women from jobs, different pay for men and women that persisted well into the 1970s... There's a long, long list of very genuine issues.

The same bodies were also abusive towards males who faced horrific conditions in institutions including what was clearly systematic severe sexual abuse and very serious physical violence.

The state colluded with the church in breaking and damaging an awful lot of people. Those outside the fold or with little power were treated abysmally.

For a state that claimed to be a republic and that was founded largely as a reaction to abuse by the old British systems, it really failed to even remotely live up to its ideals. It's only in relatively recent decades that I think Ireland is starting to resemble the country it should have been from the outset.

We were hijacked (willingly) by ultra conservative elements and religious dogma. It's something that really was a terrible betrayal of the people and of genuinely republican values.

up for anything

middelsburgh wrote: »

are you saying her religion is better than ours

middelsburgh wrote: »

why is that bithc always attacking our religion and our faith
we don't ask her her religious background
very extreme anti-catholic agenda

middelsburgh wrote: »

fake lesbian
only pretending that for points on the victimhood scale

middelsburgh wrote: »

YA WHATEVER MATE
YOU RECKON I SHOULD LET SOME ****IN CANADIAN COME OVER HERE AND INSULT MY RELIGION, MY GOD, MY JESUS, AND THAT OF MY FAMILY,

middelsburgh wrote: »

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

Boys were sexually abused much more in abuse scandals but that doesnt suit the radical feminist agenda

mammajamma wrote: »

Yeah, sure just this morning I wrote something on a bit of a paper and gave it to my dog. He's now a cat.

Fancy that!

mammajamma wrote: »

Jut from the brief description there she sounds like shes lived some kind of whacko life altogether, and not the jacko kind either.

Theres something really unlikeable about a person not from here, being paid by people from here to tell the people here what to do. It just rubs the wrong way.

Just imagine the inverse, an irish bloke heads over to France in his 40's, then manages to gain a prominent French governmental position guiding the direction of france.

What?

middelsburgh wrote: »

Zappone should b reminded she is not in canada anymore
if she came back my village insulting jesus she's get both barrels
and thats a quote

middelsburgh wrote: »

lads trust this minister for abortion
really she loves irish children

a true irish patriot

middelsburgh wrote: »

so you are saying zappone is right to come into our country and attack our God
that sh1t may fly up in the Pale
but she may keep away from the midlands

mammajamma wrote: »

You know exactly the point being made, and simple-simon questions like " you democracy understand?!" is just a waste of time.

Or heres and answer for placation! Person A and B are put forward by ruling parties A and B in whatever election. If youre lucky Person A and B might have the fundamental differences of a different-coloured tie.

Media, basically in the back pocket of governmental parties, promotes person A and B, blocking out options in a way that they can JUST about get away it.

Handily enough, any kind of referendum or question put to the public always seems to be backed 100% by both party A and party B on the same side. Weirrrrrdddd!!!

Someone dares to speak against it? State the obvious, respond with "do you even DO democracy?!" And the tired attempt at disenfranchisement, "Why don't you run yourself, its totally a exemplary democracy, dude!"

That crap, as already said, isn't going to be around forever, not the way things are going. There are many squeaky bums already, I would imagine.

middelsburgh wrote: »

mashallah it will be over soon

mammajamma wrote: »

Welcome to the real world, then. Unless you're seeing rainbows and stardust everytime you observe the current state of things? Bubbelicious?

This AH thread reads like a crap Facebook page started by newly minted registrations tapping into the frustrations of a certain section of the put-upon Irish born.

Or perhaps, Peter Casey's bots revving up for the next general election.

I wonder if one Peter Casey who is Irish born but hasn't lived in the country much equal to one little Eric Zhi Ying Xue who was born here and lived here all his life and wants to continue doing so equal to one Katherine Zappone who wasn't born here but has lived here much of her life and despite being not terribly likeable at least got up off her ass and contributed to Irish life? It's an interesting equation.

I neglected to mention the slight whiff of Iona House coming from this thread.

padd b1975

DChancer wrote: »

Because YOUR Religion has been responsible for enormous pain and suffering in this country!
Personally I would like to see it banned.

Lol.

Very liberal.

Richard Hillman

She is done in the next election. She barely made it over the line as a community driven, anti-establishment candidate, in a rough part of town. Now she is part of the establishment. She may gain some gentrified votes though.