Leaf sitting idle for 18 months

nicol

Hi,


as per the title, a relative of mine passed away last year and their 2011 Nissan Leaf has been sitting unused for 18 months. It is going to be sold as part of their estate and I wonder is there anything I need to be wary of before trying to charge / drive it. I tried to open the door a few days ago and no joy so either the battery is gone in the fob or in the car (12v)


Any advise welcome. I could always ask at a Nissan garage but I suspect there is more knowledge here.


Thanks!

biko

It's probably the car battery

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-iMMG4kp1w

ELM327

Change the 12v battery for one
Any car (EV or not) would need a thorough inspection if it's been sitting unmoved for 18 months. Tyres probably need changing as they will have flat spotted at the bottom, pads and disks need to be checked etc.

KCross

And the fob batteries are probably dead too... they dont last much more than 18mths.

You can change the 12V and the fob batteries easy enough yourself and get it to the point of starting it up.

I'd be more worried that the main battery was left at a very high or very low state of charge for the 18mths. Get it started and take a note of what the state of charge of the main battery is when it starts.... its displayed as a % on the dash by pressing a button to the right of the steering wheel.

Or just take a pic of the dash and post it and we can tell you from the graphics on it what state its in but take the pic before you try to charge up the high voltage battery.

KCross

Just remembered as well that the fob has a physical key inside it that can be used without the battery working.

On the back of the fob there is a little slider that allows the physical key to slide out. That will unlock the doors for you.

You can then place the fob right up against the start button and the car will start even if the fob battery is dead (but it would require the 12V to be good).

So, thats worth a try to begin with.

TheBoyConor

If the battery was left uncharged it's probably screwed by now. Which basically means the car is unsalable except for scrap.

ELM327

TheBoyConor wrote: »

If the battery was left uncharged it's probably screwed by now. Which basically means the car is unsalable except for scrap.

Or in the real world, no that's completely irrelevant, inaccurate and unhelpful to the OP to boot.

TheBoyConor

Why? Sure a battery left alone will slowly discharge. And after 18 months or could be left with a seriously depleted capacity.

So then a new battery will probably cost 4-5k and even at that it'll still be only 24kWhr cos an '11 leaf won't take the new 30kwhr+ batteries and even if they did they'd likely be unavailable as a retrofit part and even if they were they'd probably be far more expensive.
As a buyer would you really put 5k+ into a 7 year old car that's been languishing in a yard for a year and a half that you don't know what else might be wrong with?

ELM327

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Why? Sure a battery left alone will slowly discharge. And after 18 months or could be left with a seriously depleted capacity.

So then a new battery will probably cost 4-5k and even at that it'll still be only 24kWhr cos an 11 won't take the new 30kwhr+ battery.
As a buyer would you really put 5k into a 7 year old car that's been languishing in a yard for a year and a half that you don't know what else might be wrong with?

Sensationalising about a new traction battery is hogwash unless it is dead. What you're talking about may have applied to lead acid or NIMH batteries but LI-Ion doesnt suffer the same issues as those types.


I'd suggest the below:

ELM327 wrote: »

Change the 12v battery for one
Any car (EV or not) would need a thorough inspection if it's been sitting unmoved for 18 months. Tyres probably need changing as they will have flat spotted at the bottom, pads and disks need to be checked etc.

homer911

OP, please post back on the outcome

slave1

Sorry for your loss OP, where are you located, there is an App a lot of us use that could provide some more detail on the car battery (not the standard 12v one) state of health.
I do agree with others though, the 12v battery needs replacement.

Gumbo

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Why? Sure a battery left alone will slowly discharge. And after 18 months or could be left with a seriously depleted capacity.

So then a new battery will probably cost 4-5k and even at that it'll still be only 24kWhr cos an '11 leaf won't take the new 30kwhr+ batteries and even if they did they'd likely be unavailable as a retrofit part and even if they were they'd probably be far more expensive.
As a buyer would you really put 5k+ into a 7 year old car that's been languishing in a yard for a year and a half that you don't know what else might be wrong with?

Replace all your 5k text with €75 (new 12v battery) and your post makes a little bit more sense.

nicol

Thanks for all the replies. I'll be sure to post back on the outcome. It could take some time to get fully sorted but I'll be sure to update when I do.

ELM327 wrote: »

Change the 12v battery for one
Any car (EV or not) would need a thorough inspection if it's been sitting unmoved for 18 months. Tyres probably need changing as they will have flat spotted at the bottom, pads and disks need to be checked etc.

Will do all of the above, thanks.

KCross wrote: »

And the fob batteries are probably dead too... they dont last much more than 18mths.

You can change the 12V and the fob batteries easy enough yourself and get it to the point of starting it up.

I'd be more worried that the main battery was left at a very high or very low state of charge for the 18mths. Get it started and take a note of what the state of charge of the main battery is when it starts.... its displayed as a % on the dash by pressing a button to the right of the steering wheel.

Or just take a pic of the dash and post it and we can tell you from the graphics on it what state its in but take the pic before you try to charge up the high voltage battery.

Will send when I've the batteries (fob and 12V) sorted.

homer911 wrote: »

OP, please post back on the outcome

slave1 wrote: »

Sorry for your loss OP, where are you located, there is an App a lot of us use that could provide some more detail on the car battery (not the standard 12v one) state of health.
I do agree with others though, the 12v battery needs replacement.

What's the name of the App? Will check it out.

Calahonda52

nicol wrote: »

What's the name of the App? Will check it out.

I suggest for now forget about the apps, the nissan one requires user ID access, and the other one requires a dongle and app on phone, more mula/grief so just get the dash lit and post the pic

Shefwedfan

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Why? Sure a battery left alone will slowly discharge. And after 18 months or could be left with a seriously depleted capacity.

So then a new battery will probably cost 4-5k and even at that it'll still be only 24kWhr cos an '11 leaf won't take the new 30kwhr+ batteries and even if they did they'd likely be unavailable as a retrofit part and even if they were they'd probably be far more expensive.
As a buyer would you really put 5k+ into a 7 year old car that's been languishing in a yard for a year and a half that you don't know what else might be wrong with?

A lot wrong with this statement but I am just confused about one part????


Not sure what the r is for at the end of kWh?


[COLOR=inherit !important]


#s3gt_translate_tooltip_mini { display: none !important; }[/COLOR]

Shefwedfan

To OP, take out the key and open the car. See if it will kick at all.

If not then replace the 12v battery as suggested, at the best of times the batteries in Nissans seem to be poor. Leaving a car sitting up that long will certainly have killed it.

Check for cables? as he/she had a Leaf I guess they have a home charge point, so plug her in and get her up and running.....

The car won't start charging if the 12V battery is flat. Should be ok to jump start the LEAF from another car. You don't even need heavy cables, just anything that gives a small boost to the 12 V battery. Just make sure to connect + to + and - to - and in that order. Then try to hit the start button on the LEAF.

If the fob battery is dead you'll need to first touch the start button with the fob. If the 12 V battery was flat keep the other battery connected throughout the charging process as the old LEAFs don't charge the 12 V battery when charging from mains for some reason. Once the car is powered on with at least a few bars of charge remains in the traction battery the 12 V battery will get automatically charged when the car is powered on.

nicol

Hey all,

so finally got around to looking at the car. As many said here the 12V battery was dead, but got it charged up and reconnected. The tyres are in a bad state having not been moved in 2 years at this stage and the brakes were a little stiff and rusted. Otherwise the battery was showing a rang of 91km at 70% charge and I was able to drive it away.

Plan now is to get a local Nissan dealer to give me a cost to service, check brakes etc, check for rust and other issues so I have an overall price to get it back on the road.

Someone mentioned that there is an App that can be used to check battery health, can someone let me know the name please?

Thanks!

nicol wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I'll be sure to post back on the outcome. It could take some time to get fully sorted but I'll be sure to update when I do.






Will do all of the above, thanks.






Will send when I've the batteries (fob and 12V) sorted.







What's the name of the App? Will check it out.

Shefwedfan

nicol wrote: »

Hey all,

so finally got around to looking at the car. As many said here the 12V battery was dead, but got it charged up and reconnected. The tyres are in a bad state having not been moved in 2 years at this stage and the brakes were a little stiff and rusted. Otherwise the battery was showing a rang of 91km at 70% charge and I was able to drive it away.

Plan now is to get a local Nissan dealer to give me a cost to service, check brakes etc, check for rust and other issues so I have an overall price to get it back on the road.

Someone mentioned that there is an App that can be used to check battery health, can someone let me know the name please?

Thanks!

You need ODB, it might be worth check with Electric autos if you are close to Naas, he will sort out a set of tires a lot cheaper than Nissan and could probably give you a good idea of what needs to be done....

Soarer

nicol wrote: »

Hey all,

so finally got around to looking at the car. As many said here the 12V battery was dead, but got it charged up and reconnected. The tyres are in a bad state having not been moved in 2 years at this stage and the brakes were a little stiff and rusted. Otherwise the battery was showing a rang of 91km at 70% charge and I was able to drive it away.

Plan now is to get a local Nissan dealer to give me a cost to service, check brakes etc, check for rust and other issues so I have an overall price to get it back on the road.

Someone mentioned that there is an App that can be used to check battery health, can someone let me know the name please?

Thanks!

That's great news. TheBoyConnor on the first page was bang on the money! :rolleyes:

The app you're looking for is called LeafSpy. You'll need an OBDII dongle to connect to the car (plugs into the little port under the steering wheel).
But the range of 90km @ 70% would point to a battery in fairly good health.
Also, if you look to the right of the range, there should be 12 little blocks...the bottom two are red. Count them. If there are 12, that means the battery has at least 85% capacity left (the top block disappears at 85%). Every subsequent block disappears with each drop of 7.5%.

Shefwedfan

Oh yeah, the 12v battery in the Leaf is poor at the best of times. In all Nissans they seem to have issues.

If I was you I would swap it out, any number of "issues" can come back to a poor quality 12v battery. Based on post you just charged it up, I would swap it. Now that is my personal advice, you could fire ahead and see how it goes but if you do have random issues that might be the problem

KCross

nicol wrote: »

Hey all,

so finally got around to looking at the car. As many said here the 12V battery was dead, but got it charged up and reconnected. The tyres are in a bad state having not been moved in 2 years at this stage and the brakes were a little stiff and rusted. Otherwise the battery was showing a rang of 91km at 70% charge and I was able to drive it away.

Plan now is to get a local Nissan dealer to give me a cost to service, check brakes etc, check for rust and other issues so I have an overall price to get it back on the road.

Someone mentioned that there is an App that can be used to check battery health, can someone let me know the name please?

Thanks!

I wouldnt bother with the app assuming your plan is just to get the car ready for sale.

On the dash on the right side there are two sets of "bars" that show you the battery "state of charge" and battery "state of health".

The state of health is all you need to know.... there are twelve short bars for the state of health with the bottom two being red colour and a zero next to them and then you count them up to 12 with a 1 at the top..... hopefully that makes sense when you see it..... being a 2011 car its probably down to 8 or 9 bars.

NOTE: Dont mix up the state of charge bars with the state of health.... state of health are the right most narrow bars.... state of charge are wider/long bars next to them and they go up and down as you charge and drive the car. The state of health bars only change over long periods of time as the battery degrades

Soarer

KCross wrote: »

I wouldnt bother with the app assuming your plan is just to get the car ready for sale.

On the dash on the right side there are two sets of "bars" that show you the battery "state of charge" and battery "state of health".

The state of health is all you need to know.... there are twelve short bars for the state of health with the bottom two being red colour and a zero next to them and then you count them up to 12 with a 1 at the top..... hopefully that makes sense when you see it..... being a 2011 car its probably down to 8 or 9 bars.

NOTE: Dont mix up the state of charge bars with the state of health.... state of health are the right most narrow bars.... state of charge are wider/long bars next to them and they go up and down as you charge and drive the car. The state of health bars only change over long periods of time as the battery degrades

Hardly, if it's showing 90km @ 70%.

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

Hardly, if it's showing 90km @ 70%.

I know, but I wouldnt trust what thats saying with it being idle for 2 years.... the GOM is called a guess-o-meter for a reason!

90km @70% would suggest 130km... on a 2011 Leaf!!!! Not a chance, imo.

That 90km might be based on some really leisurely driving by the owner a few years ago now, so add on 2 further years of degradation and I'd be surprised if a 2011 was really at anything more than 10 bars.

Isnt your own 2011 at 8 bars now?

Soarer

Aye.
But only in the last week or two, and she has 185k kms on her.

The variances between 2011 Leaf battery capacities is ridiculous.

nicol

All,

I've attached photos of the main dash and the speedometer dash.

Firstly, thoughts on battery health ?
Secondly, the warning triangles, will I need to connect to OBD2 to diagnose further? Any recommendations re dongles and apps?

Thanks.

KCross

Wow! 12 bars! Im amazed.

I suppose for a 2011 with only 14k km's on it it hasnt been driven much so that must have helped keep the battery in good nick.

Soarer

nicol wrote: »

All,

I've attached photos of the main dash and the speedometer dash.

Firstly, thoughts on battery health ?
Secondly, the warning triangles, will I need to connect to OBD2 to diagnose further? Any recommendations re dongles and apps?

Thanks.

You've all 12 bars, which means the battery is >85%.

The app you need is LeafSpy.
The dongle depends on your phone, iOS or android.
Dongle + LeafSpy = diagnose and clear errors!

KCross

nicol wrote: »

Secondly, the warning triangles, will I need to connect to OBD2 to diagnose further? Any recommendations re dongles and apps?

What county are you in? Someone nearby might be able to help you out with connecting their app/dongle.

The app is called LeafSpy. You need to buy the dongle separately and they are hit and miss as to whether they are compatible or not. It might be easier, since its a once off for you, to get someone nearby to plug theirs in for you.

The yellow light seems to be for traction control and with the brakes being stuck (I think you said) it might be related to that. A local garage rather than main dealer would be able to sort that, if thats what it is.

Is the car driving OK?
Have you tried charging it?

slave1

Great result!

JPA

You can turn on and off traction control so it might be just the button was pressed to turn it off. Then that symbol will display.

nicol

I wouldn't mind buying a dongle, would come in handy for my own car anyway.

Can someone suggest one that is known to work with LeafSpy on Android?

The car is driving fine, the tyres are a bit warped from being in the same position for so long, brakes are scratching a bit but fine otherwise.

KCross wrote: »

What county are you in? Someone nearby might be able to help you out with connecting their app/dongle.

The app is called LeafSpy. You need to buy the dongle separately and they are hit and miss as to whether they are compatible or not. It might be easier, since its a once off for you, to get someone nearby to plug theirs in for you.

The yellow light seems to be for traction control and with the brakes being stuck (I think you said) it might be related to that. A local garage rather than main dealer would be able to sort that, if thats what it is.

Is the car driving OK?
Have you tried charging it?

The dongles are very hit and miss unfortunately. You need one that supports OBD v 1.5 but even many that claim to be 1.5 are actually 2.x these days and are incompatible with the LeafSpy. Your best bet is to search for dongles that are known to be compatible and try to buy one of those. Mine works fine with a really old one I bough back in around 2011 but any newer ones I have tried have all been incompatible.

zg3409

samih wrote: »

any newer ones I have tried have all been incompatible.

Official App recommendation below from play store

Due to a recent cost reduction (and feature reduction) many of the cheap ELM327 OBDII Bluetooth adapters from Asia no longer work with the Leaf and report themselves to be version 2.1. The previously recommended Bluetooth Konnwei KW902 OBDII adapter is also no longer recommended as a batch of defective ones have made their way into the market. These will basically short out your Leaf's CAN bus (or any CAN bus they are plugged into). But when removed do not seem to cause any lasting damage.

With the release of version 0.39.97 LeafSpy Pro now supports two Bluetooth 4.x LE approved adapters. The recommended one is the LELink available from Amazon. Bluetooth 4.x LE has the advantage of not needing to be paired and lower power from both the Android device and the Leaf. The LELink is highly recommended and also works with the iOS version of LeafSpy Pro.

AhHaor

This one works 100%

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Vgate-iCar2-ELM327-V2-1-OBD-OBD2-WIFI-Bluetooth-Scanner-Diagnostic-Tool-WI-FI-Adapter-ELM/32774201469.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dJMhJNF

vondes

I sit this too

nicol

Thanks for all the replies. I'll order the one from AliExpress later today.

samih wrote: »

The dongles are very hit and miss unfortunately. You need one that supports OBD v 1.5 but even many that claim to be 1.5 are actually 2.x these days and are incompatible with the LeafSpy. Your best bet is to search for dongles that are known to be compatible and try to buy one of those. Mine works fine with a really old one I bough back in around 2011 but any newer ones I have tried have all been incompatible.

zg3409 wrote: »

Official App recommendation below from play store

AhHaor wrote: »

This one works 100%

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Vgate-iCar2-ELM327-V2-1-OBD-OBD2-WIFI-Bluetooth-Scanner-Diagnostic-Tool-WI-FI-Adapter-ELM/32774201469.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dJMhJNF

vondes wrote: »

I sit this too

Gumbo

nicol wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I'll order the one from AliExpress later today.

Good stuff, you should have it for Christmas

beauf

Keep us updated. Very interested to hear how it all works out.

ted1

Are you keeping it?

AMKC

nicol wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I'll order the one from AliExpress later today.

You could order one from Wish if they do them but it will still be at least a 3 week wait although sometimes it can be quicker.

nicol

beauf wrote: »

Keep us updated. Very interested to hear how it all works out.

Will do

ted1 wrote: »

Are you keeping it?

I'm tempted to be honest. I have been considering an EV for a long time and this could be a good way to dip my toe in the water.

I need to get a mechanic to look at the car to see if there are any major problems with it, I see a couple of spots of rust on the sills so I need to be sure it's not anywhere else. If it's OK I'll make a reasonable offer to the executor of the estate.

The original LEAF is a surprisingly good car really. They drive real well and are spacious and comfortable.

nicol

So I bought a obd dongle and connected it using leaf spy. Attached is a screenshot showing battery information.

Any comments welcome on the health of the battery.

Bear in mind 2011 gen 1 leaf.

nicol wrote: »

Will do



I'm tempted to be honest. I have been considering an EV for a long time and this could be a good way to dip my toe in the water.

I need to get a mechanic to look at the car to see if there are any major problems with it, I see a couple of spots of rust on the sills so I need to be sure it's not anywhere else. If it's OK I'll make a reasonable offer to the executor of the estate.

KCross

nicol wrote: »

So I bought a obd dongle and connected it using leaf spy. Attached is a screenshot showing battery information.

Any comments welcome on the health of the battery.

Bear in mind 2011 gen 1 leaf.

Thats a brilliant figure(92%) for a 2011 and obviously its because it has been cycled very few times.

Have you driven it since you opened this thread and had the battery run down and recharged a few times?.... only then will you get accurate figures from LeafSpy

nicol

No, haven't driven it at all really. I don't own the car and there's no NCT, tax or insurance so I'd be in bother if I was stopped.

KCross wrote: »

Thats a brilliant figure(92%) for a 2011 and obviously its because it has been cycled very few times.

Have you driven it since you opened this thread and had the battery run down and recharged a few times?.... only then will you get accurate figures from LeafSpy

KCross

nicol wrote: »

No, haven't driven it at all really. I don't own the car and there's no NCT, tax or insurance so I'd be in bother if I was stopped.

OK, I'd be a bit apprehensive about believing the figure then.

The Battery Management system (which is what is feeding the data that LeafSpy shows) only knows the battery capacity through use. There is no magic test that it can do to tell you its at 92% other than you driving the car down to a low state of charge and then fully charging it back up and doing that a few times.

The BMS will then truly know what the battery capacity is. If it hasnt been really driven or charged in the last 2 years LeafSpy is basically telling you the capacity from 2 years ago, not today.

Hopefully its close enough to what is displayed but you'd need to discharge/charge it a few times to be sure.

Looks like there is one weak module in the battery pack based on the graph. I'd say one capacity bar will go down very soon once the car is used regularly.

The best case scenario is that the battery pack is out of balance if not charged fully to 100 percent a few times in a row (early LEAFs suffer from this trait). Now is good time to either sell the car or drive it regularly to see how the pack starts to behave after the dormancy.

zilog_jones

KCross wrote: »

The BMS will then truly know what the battery capacity is. If it hasnt been really driven or charged in the last 2 years LeafSpy is basically telling you the capacity from 2 years ago, not today.

Isn't it the case that if the 12V is disconnected (it went flat obviously on this one) that some or all of the BMS data is reset?

samih wrote: »

Looks like there is one weak module in the battery pack based on the graph. I'd say one capacity bar will go down very soon once the car is used regularly.

Is 46 mV deviation something to be concerned about?

KCross

zilog_jones wrote: »

Isn't it the case that if the 12V is disconnected (it went flat obviously on this one) that some or all of the BMS data is reset?

No idea. If that were true then even more reason to discharge/charge a few times so that it can re-learn what the pack actually has available.

zilog_jones

zilog_jones wrote: »

Is 46 mV deviation something to be concerned about?

It's a bit higher than ideal especially if this module takes a nosedrive towards the end of the pack.

I don't have any personal experience on the Gen 1 pack but on Gen 1.5 pack the deviation typically stayed at 10-20 mV at mid-state-of-charge. The weakest one just stands out as the other modules are very evenly balanced. Best to let the pack fully balance by a few 100 % charges.