Southampton Students' Union president says First World War mural should be taken down

DColeman

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6315595/Fury-student-union-president-vows-tear-white-men-WWI-mural.html

A US-educated student rep for England's University of Southampton, who sparked outrage by saying a mural in memory of First World War soldiers should be 'painted over' because it displays only 'white men', earns at least $25,000 (£20,000) as Students' Union President.

Emily Dawes, 21, whose family lives in a $1.2 million (£930,000) home in upscale Vienna, Virginia, provoked outrage when she referred to a mural depicting Allied First World War soldiers as a 'mural of white men' and called for it to be taken down.

The physics student tweeted: 'Mark my words - we're taking down the mural of white men in the uni Senate room, even if I have to paint over it myself.'

Dawes has enjoyed what many would describe a life of privilege. Her father Danny, a global director for US-based computer security company Symantec, took the family around the world - with Dawes being educated in the US and privately in London.

Like a lot of Irish people I have issues with some of the poppy day and OTT British military remembrances which is seemingly rammed down peoples throats at this time of the year, but her issue??

The depiction and celebration of too many white men. Good old student politics eh?

Although to be fair to her she's managed to upset the Daily Mail so much the story now has nearly 7,000 comments and counting from the typically outraged.

Snotty

What am I meant to be feeling here, outrage that a student said something stupid?

eviltwin

Why do things like this make national newspapers? I mean, who cares what she thinks, she shouldn't be given the publicity. I miss the days when the news was about things that actually mattered rather than a dump from outrageous twitter posts.

Harry Palmr

My suggestion would be to commission a second piece which depicts the contribution of Empire troops esp from countries like India and then tell the stupid Yankee candle bint to shut the **** up.

DColeman

Snotty wrote: »

What am I meant to be feeling here, outrage that a student said something stupid?

Well its got 7,000 comments on the DM at the moment so its clearly important to some.

Grayson

eviltwin wrote: »

Why do things like this make national newspapers? I mean, who cares what she thinks, she shouldn't be given the publicity. I miss the days when the news was about things that actually mattered rather than a dump from outrageous twitter posts.

Because people like the OP love this sh1t.

Gimme A Pound

The photo with the two dudes wearing next to nothing (no prob if it's men seemingly) - shame on her, they're both white!

A tweet someone wrote to her in agreement - something something "middle-class white". Oh noez... middle-class white, the humanity!

Ironically she is also middle-class white. She ticks every caricature box.

TheValeyard

She's a moron.

Roger Hassenforder

Cool the jets lads, shes apologised.
Move on.

Snotty

DColeman wrote: »

Well its got 7,000 comments on the DM at the moment so its clearly important to some.

Yeah DM readers, says it all

Folkstonian

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Cool the jets lads, shes apologised.
Move on.

She did, but only because she got spooked by the strength of the backlash to her ignorant and offensive comments. I don’t think her view has changed.

Students get a lot of flack today but these clowns are representative of nobody but themselves.

When I was at university in the U.K., 95% of people had no interest in campus politics and would actively avoid the student union reps as they lurked in the bars and coffee shops. This girl does a tremendously good job of proving they were right to do so.

riffmongous

Now that she mentioned it, I don't think I've ever seen anything commemorating the million or so Indian soldiers who fought for the British in ww1

I mean think about, can you name one battle the Indians were involved in off the top of your head? There was Ulster at the Somme, Canadians at Messines and the Anzacs at Gallipoli, and I'm not into the allied history at all but more or less everyone knows of them. I'd guess to a large extent they aren't celebrated at home because of Amritsar, similar to the Irish experience, but the Empire doesn't seem to have celebrated them much either

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

riffmongous wrote: »

Now that she mentioned it, I don't think I've ever seen anything commemorating the million or so Indian soldiers who fought for the British in ww1

I mean think about, can you name one battle the Indians were involved in off the top of your head? There was Ulster at the Somme, Canadians at Messines and the Anzacs at Gallipoli, and I'm not into the allied history at all but more or less everyone knows of them

They were heavily involved in battles against the Ottomans in Iraq.

riffmongous

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

They were heavily involved in battles against the Ottomans in Iraq.

Hardly common knowledge though is it?

c.p.w.g.w

Why do people wish to sanitise history. Good and Bad things happened. It's important to remember both...It's how we learn and evolve

riffmongous

riffmongous wrote: »

Now that she mentioned it, I don't think I've ever seen anything commemorating the million or so Indian soldiers who fought for the British in ww1

I mean think about, can you name one battle the Indians were involved in off the top of your head? There was Ulster at the Somme, Canadians at Messines and the Anzacs at Gallipoli, and I'm not into the allied history at all but more or less everyone knows of them. I'd guess to a large extent they aren't celebrated at home because of Amritsar, similar to the Irish experience, but the Empire doesn't seem to have celebrated them much either

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Gates,_London

BattleCorp

Circle of Fifths wrote: »

Why do some white people hate themselves?

What sort of education are 'thickos' like this getting? Who is teaching them that it is bad to be a white man?

Berserker

DColeman wrote: »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6315595/Fury-student-union-president-vows-tear-white-men-WWI-mural.html

Like a lot of Irish people I have issues with some of the poppy day and OTT British military remembrances which is seemingly rammed down peoples throats at this time of the year, but her issue??

The depiction and celebration of too many white men. Good old student politics eh?

Although to be fair to her she's managed to upset the Daily Mail so much the story now has nearly 7,000 comments and counting from the typically outraged.

Do you live in the UK? If not, how are these celebrations rammed down your throat? As for the SU members who complained, they need to get a grip. Aside for the usual bunch of republican mongs, who take offense to anything remotely British, most Irish people I know aren't bothered by it.

Timberrrrrrrr

Berserker wrote: »

Do you live in the UK? If not, how are these celebrations rammed down your throat? As for the SU members who complained, they need to get a grip.

Do you not know?

Sure these poor lads and lasses are forced to watch English football teams on the tv and they have poppies on thier shirts.

And even if they try to escape it there by watching something else sure aren't all the tv presenters and news/weather people wearing them? Doesnt matter that its English channels that they are watching, it's being forced upon them by the imperialistic, jingoistic (insert other random insults as needed) government/new world order/blah blah blah.

If only there was some way these poor people could avoid seeing the poppy?

valoren

I assume this mural was dedicated to those from Southampton University who enlisted and fought.
I'd hazard a guess that near 100% of those from Southampton University who enlisted and fought were men who happened to be white.

Berserker

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If only there was some way these poor people could avoid seeing the poppy?

A taxi driver in Dublin, who grandparents (all four of them) were at the GPO in 1916, was telling me that the British army are hacking into their television sets and they keep switching the channel back to poppy bearing programming. Was wondering if the OP is one of these people.

Berserker

Berserker wrote: »

A taxi driver in Dublin, who grandparents (all four of them) were at the GPO in 1916, was telling me that the British army are hacking into their television sets and they keep switching the channel back to poppy bearing programming. Was wondering if the OP is one of these people.

That reminds me of this story https://republicansinnfein.org/2013/12/16/be-vigilant/

turns out the guy bought an ex securicor van (being the good socialist tax payer that he is, he bought it in the UK because it was cheaper) and, surprisingly enough, all securicor vans have tracking devices fitted.

biko

These arrogant history-defiant feminists destroy everything they touch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTTwlAT_AwU

Jackman25

Grayson wrote: »

Because people like the OP love this sh1t.

Obviously you were saying the same thing on the Ryanair racism thread, another localized incident that should really be making national news.

Oh wait.......

Let's rewrite history while we're at it. High time this misguided young lady discard the bubble wrap and get real.

El_Duderino 09

BattleCorp wrote: »

What sort of education are 'thickos' like this getting? Who is teaching them that it is bad to be a white man?

Is someone saying it’s bad to be a white man? She said the picture only depicts white men. So what’s the harm in celebrating the people involved who weren’t white men?

Seems like it’s the non white men who taught but aren’t remembered who are getting the raw end.

Jelle1880

'US-educated'

major bill

Shes since deleted it and apologised!!

She looks like a clown anyway.

lawred2

eviltwin wrote: »

Why do things like this make national newspapers? I mean, who cares what she thinks, she shouldn't be given the publicity. I miss the days when the news was about things that actually mattered rather than a dump from outrageous twitter posts.

Why do you think?

Because it sucks in all the easily irked who get all worked up and splash links everywhere on forums and social media to the bloody story.

Just like the OP.

major bill

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Is someone saying it’s bad to be a white man? She said the picture only depicts white men. So what’s the harm in celebrating the people involved who weren’t white men?

Seems like it’s the non white men who taught but aren’t remembered who are getting the raw end.

The pic is a remembrance to the students that had to go to war and never came back, this might be a shock to the woman but there weren't many black men in England let alone that college at the start of the 20th century. We can't just rewrite history to suit her and people like hers beliefs.

biko

major bill wrote: »

Shes since deleted it and apologised!!

She looks like a clown anyway.

Her looks have nothing to do with this.

Even thought she may have deleted and apologised it doesn't change anything, it is pretty clear where her feelings on matters like this lies, and as president she has the power to corrupt students. And she will continue corrupting them.

She should be fired or moved to another position.

lawred2

biko wrote: »

Her looks have nothing to do with this.

Even thought she may have deleted and apologised it doesn't change anything, it is pretty clear where her feelings on matters like this lies, and as president she has the power to corrupt students. And she will continue corrupting them.

She should be fired or moved to another position.

no she doesn't

Harry Palmr

biko wrote: »

Her looks have nothing to do with this.

I think 'looks like a clown' is with regard to her views not the big red nose.

El_Duderino 09

major bill wrote: »

The pic is a remembrance to the students that had to go to war and never came back, this might be a shock to the woman but there weren't many black men in England let alone that college at the start of the 20th century. We can't just rewrite history to suit her and people like hers beliefs.

If the pic is just to remember the students from that uni, then fair enough.

The broader point is probably fair though. The Irish input is often minimised. And I think that happens even more for non white people. brown people like the Indians input is largely forgotten.

Amirani

Students unions aren't representative. Most people in universities pay no interest to them or their campaigns.

El_Duderino 09

Amirani wrote: »

Students unions aren't representative. Most people in universities pay no interest to them or their campaigns.

This is it.

It’s a uni, so people are supposed to kick around ideas and think outside the box. It’s training or practice. Judging a students union president on every decision is like judging undergraduates on every essay they write.

If students were coming up with the same stuff as 20 years ago, then they’d be completely useless

donaghs

eviltwin wrote: »

Why do things like this make national newspapers? I mean, who cares what she thinks, she shouldn't be given the publicity. I miss the days when the news was about things that actually mattered rather than a dump from outrageous twitter posts.

Ideas like this are quite mainstream in some university departments now.
Ideas (good and bad) which initially develop in Universities, often then go mainstream in wider society when students graduate and take up influential positions in society.

Ignorant and hateful ideas should be challenged.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Cool the jets lads, shes apologised.
Move on.

She said sorry. But there's evidence that she doesn't still believe in the original sins of whiteness or maleness.

riffmongous wrote: »

Now that she mentioned it, I don't think I've ever seen anything commemorating the million or so Indian soldiers who fought for the British in ww1

Not enough maybe, but they are there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Gates,_London
Not really relevant for a memorial in Southampton Uni, to the Southampton Uni students who died in WW1.

BattleCorp wrote: »

What sort of education are 'thickos' like this getting? Who is teaching them that it is bad to be a white man?

? These ideas are becoming quite common now - to varying degrees. You can even see them on on TV3 chat show saying something like Irish politicians are "Too Pale, and too Male". etc

quintana76

eviltwin wrote: »

Why do things like this make national newspapers? I mean, who cares what she thinks, she shouldn't be given the publicity. I miss the days when the news was about things that actually mattered rather than a dump from outrageous twitter posts.

There is a cultural civil war going on currently in the West. The sad thing is her views will gain currency with her contemporaries and be tacitly accepted by intimidated/sympathetic college authorities.

In the recent past she would have been told to f*** off and grow up but in the current climate of insane identity politics she is taken seriously by a sufficient number of clueless idiot children and academics who should know better, to warrant a media story.

A sign of our times that she could think she could even get away with such disrespect combined with profound ignorance which seems to be so common in kids, like herself, of a similar over privileged background.

riffmongous

Aegir wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Gates,_London

One set of gates for 5 million people, and it was only made a few years ago..

Berserker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The Irish input is often minimised.

Where is the Irish input minimised?

donaghs

riffmongous wrote: »

One set of gates for 5 million people, and it was only made a few years ago..

So, regarding this thread, she would be entitled to wreck the memorial to the Southhampton students who died in ww1?

Or is this a different conversation?

duffysfarm

is it just me or are her legs a little hairy in the picture at the bottom of the page when you click on the link by the op? in fact they look a bit like my brothers legs.. (of course girls are allowed to have hairy legs! just an observation)

riffmongous

donaghs wrote: »

So, regarding this thread, she would be entitled to wreck the memorial to the Southhampton students who died in ww1?

Or is this a different conversation?

Different conversation, I doubt the girl had any clue what she was talking about.

You could say though, in the current parlance, that she's shined a light on the whitewashing of the war memory

Folkstonian

riffmongous wrote: »

donaghs wrote: »

So, regarding this thread, she would be entitled to wreck the memorial to the Southhampton students who died in ww1?

Or is this a different conversation?

Different conversation, I doubt the girl had any clue what she was talking about.

You could say though, in the current parlance, that she's shined a light on the whitewashing of the war memory

There are vast memorials to soldiers from the former empire all over the commonwealth though. The contributions and sacrifices of non-British troops certainly haven’t been erased from history.

El_Duderino 09

Berserker wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The Irish input is often minimised.

Where is the Irish input minimised?

Anywhere that’s not Ireland. You don’t hear much about Irish troops in the UK. And you definitely wouldn’t get the impression so many colonial troops took part from listening to discussion in the uk.

riffmongous

Folkstonian wrote: »

There are vast memorials to soldiers from the former empire all over the commonwealth though. The contributions and sacrifices of non-British troops certainly haven’t been erased from history.

If you take away Gallipoli and LoA, how many movies and books have been written about the middle eastern and African campaigns? How many movies are there about Monte Cassino?

Berserker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Anywhere that’s not Ireland. You don’t hear much about Irish troops in the UK. And you definitely wouldn’t get the impression so many colonial troops took part from listening to discussion in the uk.

Ever heard of the Royal Irish Regiment or the The Irish Guards? As for the role of the Irish in the WWs, they are very well spoken of in the UK and on mainland Europe. Take a look at the commemorations that have taken place down through the years and you'll see a very clear Irish presence there. They have not received the same level of praise here and they were treated appallingly for many years in this country. The Irish were never considered colonial troops, so you are looking in the wrong place for them!

Franz Von Peppercorn

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If the pic is just to remember the students from that uni, then fair enough.

The broader point is probably fair though. The Irish input is often minimised. And I think that happens even more for non white people. brown people like the Indians input is largely forgotten.

The Indian presence in WWI is ignored but do you think this clown even knew that? She saw white people, thought that she was in America and virtue signalled her disgust. (She’s probably a descendant of slave holders btw).

I’d take yanks more seriously if they opposed American imperialism.

El_Duderino 09

Berserker wrote: »

Ever heard of the Royal Irish Regiment or the The Irish Guards? As for the role of the Irish in the WWs, they are very well spoken of in the UK and on mainland Europe. Take a look at the commemorations that have taken place down through the years and you'll see a very clear Irish presence there. They have not received the same level of praise here and they were treated appallingly for many years in this country. The Irish were never considered colonial troops, so you are looking in the wrong place for them!

Grand but the brown fellas from India for example, were colonial troops and their role is not recognised in proportion to their participation.

El_Duderino 09

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The Indian presence in WWI is ignored but do you think this clown even knew that? She saw white people, thought that she was in America and virtue signalled her disgust. (She’s probably a descendant of slave holders btw).

I’d take yanks more seriously if they opposed American imperialism.

I don’t know if she is aware of the Indian contribution or it’s being ignored. She might well know about it. I presume private education in the US and UK means she’s had better schooling than the average American, British or Irish person.

Her broader point is correct; the contribution of non white troops is largely ignored.

If the specific picture in the uni was dedicated to local uni students, then it wasn’t the right time to make the point. But the point stands in principal.

Berserker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don’t know if she is aware of the Indian contribution or it’s being ignored. She might well know about it. I presume private education in the US and UK means she’s had better schooling than the average American, British or Irish person.

Wouldn't be sure about that. I've worked with some utter chumps who received the best of the best in terms of education in the USA and I would argue that the education (second level) we receive in the UK & Ireland is better. I'd be pleasantly surprised if this young lady knew about the role that troops outside of the British Isles played in the wars. You do have a point about the Indian troops but the Irish are a different case, as I noted above.