Irish Rail plan level crossing closures on Cork line

marno21

Irish Rail have tendered for consultants to assist in the closure of level crossings along the Cork line.

There are still a number left around Ballyhea in Cork.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/208813

Jamie2k9

Is this normal practice for automating crossings?

tabbey

Are these public road crossings, as at Buttevant, or just farmer's accomodation crossings?.

Jamie2k9

tabbey wrote: »

Are these public road crossings, as at Buttevant, or just farmer's accomodation crossings?.

There is no farm crossings left, all public roads.

Markcheese

Do they not have their own engineers for this type of design work,? Or is it an assurance type thing, (our engineer watches the consulting engineer who watches the building companies engineer who watches the builders)

Jamie2k9

Markcheese wrote: »

Do they not have their own engineers for this type of design work,? Or is it an assurance type thing, (our engineer watches the consulting engineer who watches the building companies engineer who watches the builders)

Would have thaught they did and don't remember such tenders for other routes.

L1011

They may be short on engineering staff due to the design work for the Maynooth and Northern electrification

LeinsterDub

Markcheese wrote: »

Do they not have their own engineers for this type of design work,? Or is it an assurance type thing, (our engineer watches the consulting engineer who watches the building companies engineer who watches the builders)

What would this engineer do from one end of the year to the next? It's not like Irish Rail have many of these projects

trellheim

Buttevant would be a difficult one to close but what are they proposing around ballyhea ? I cant see how you can jump to the N20 in this distance see https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2802374,-8.6801626,3a,75y,259.68h,84t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sx4Jeh5FhwgTeDRBTqk3-AA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dx4Jeh5FhwgTeDRBTqk3-AA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D77.51675%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

Jamie2k9

trellheim wrote: »

Buttevant would be a difficult one to close but what are they proposing around ballyhea ? I cant see how you can jump to the N20 in this distance see https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2802374,-8.6801626,3a,75y,259.68h,84t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sx4Jeh5FhwgTeDRBTqk3-AA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dx4Jeh5FhwgTeDRBTqk3-AA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D77.51675%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

Its closing or automation. They will unlikely get many fully closed.

Jamie2k9

L1011 wrote: »

They may be short on engineering staff due to the design work for the Maynooth and Northern electrification

No I don't think this is a factor or it shouldn’t be. Leave this work to external people if its the case.

marno21

CIE have begun a pre-railway order consultation with An Bord Pleanala for the replacement of seven manned crossings between Limerick Junction and Mallow

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/305149.htm

Victor

trellheim wrote: »

Buttevant would be a difficult one to close but what are they proposing around ballyhea ? I cant see how you can jump to the N20 in this distance see https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2802374,-8.6801626,3a,75y,259.68h,84t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sx4Jeh5FhwgTeDRBTqk3-AA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dx4Jeh5FhwgTeDRBTqk3-AA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D77.51675%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

You don't have to. They could provide a road along the side of the railway connecting to a bridge - existing or new - elsewhere.

Buttevent may be a greater problem because of the hill, but doing it right might mean they could close the roads under the low bridges to the south.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

CIE have begun a pre-railway order consultation with An Bord Pleanala for the replacement of seven manned crossings between Limerick Junction and Mallow

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/305149.htm

Surprised there’s that many manned level crossings on that line? The Waterford line is lower priority and I think all the level crossings are auto now for some time

L1011

road_high wrote: »

Surprised there’s that many manned level crossings on that line? The Waterford line is lower priority and I think all the level crossings are auto now for some time

Automation is expensive - very expensive. If you know you're going to remove the crossing entirely it may not pay back in staff savings quickly enough to bother

goingnowhere

road_high wrote: »

Surprised there’s that many manned level crossings on that line? The Waterford line is lower priority and I think all the level crossings are auto now for some time

Waterford was done in conjunction with a signalling upgrade, i.e. there was budget and it makes sense due the integration between the systems. But they mainly upgraded not eliminated.

There are now no level crossings between Limerick Junction and Dublin nor are there are Dublin to Newry

Mallow - Limerick Junction is the least used section of the Dublin Cork line, not more than 2 trains an hour on average over the business day.

Jamie2k9

Still 3 manual on Waterford.

The only fully automated line is Mallow-Tralee AFAIK.

If they eliminate all these on Cork there will still be one just north of Limerick J (automated). Probably controlled from Mallow (?).

Marty Bird

goingnowhere wrote: »

Waterford was done in conjunction with a signalling upgrade, i.e. there was budget and it makes sense due the integration between the systems. But they mainly upgraded not eliminated.

There are now no level crossings between Limerick Junction and Dublin nor are there are Dublin to Newry

Mallow - Limerick Junction is the least used section of the Dublin Cork line, not more than 2 trains an hour on average over the business day.

Grange LC is between LJ and Thurles on the Cork Mainline.

theguzman

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Still 3 manual on Waterford.

The only fully automated line is Mallow-Tralee AFAIK.

If they eliminate all these on Cork there will still be one just north of Limerick J (automated). Probably controlled from Mallow (?).

https://goo.gl/maps/XvhQCcuQFt2VGUhU6

This is outside Rathmore on the Killarney side, I presume it is still there as the Google Maps are from 2009, I remember nervously crossing it once in 2008.

marno21

theguzman wrote: »

https://goo.gl/maps/XvhQCcuQFt2VGUhU6

This is outside Rathmore on the Killarney side, I presume it is still there as the Google Maps are from 2009, I remember nervously crossing it once in 2008.

It is still there.

IE have planning permission to close the crossing and route the road through a farmers crossing a few hundred metres further west but this hasn't been advanced yet

The N72 along there is to be realigned away from there too which will make a difference

theguzman

marno21 wrote: »

It is still there.

IE have planning permission to close the crossing and route the road through a farmers crossing a few hundred metres further west but this hasn't been advanced yet

The N72 along there is to be realigned away from there too which will make a difference

That stretch of road immediately outside Barradubh village towards Mallow is a disgrace and it has more twists and turns than a hula hoop dancer. It would badly want upgrading and the road bridge they built back around 10-15 years should see the engineers shot at dawn for the ridiculousness of it.

Isambard

I imagine most of the crossings involved would be automated. There is one at Ballyhea that is closed at night, I imagine that could be closed permanently. I think the planning consent would be needed for the changes to the road and it's markings.

marno21

Options published

https://www.irishrail.ie/About-Us/Iarnrod-Eireann-Projects-and-Investments/Cork-Line-Level-Crossings-Project

1 outright closure, 1 upgrade to 4 barrier CCTV and 5 replacements with new road alignments

Isambard

interesting spelling of Ballyhea.

Okon

Isambard wrote: »

interesting spelling of Ballyhea.

FWIW I have seen it on some old maps as Ballyhay before...

Isambard

but this is a new map.....I wonder do IE have to use the names set out in the original Act of Parliament...

GM228

Isambard wrote: »

interesting spelling of Ballyhea.

Ballyhay is the correct name (and before that it was Ballyhaura), there seems to be some uncertainty as to where Ballyhea came from, writings from 1837 are the first to use Ballyhea and now both seem to be used.

The LC is officially named Ballyhay which is the officially recorded place name for the townland and civil parish under the OSI and the Loganim database, Ballyhea may be in common use but it is not the official place name.

marno21

IE have lodged a Railway Order Application with An Bord Pleanala for this job:

https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/310286

Documents attached to the above link.

tabbey

GM228 wrote: »

Ballyhay is the correct name (and before that it was Ballyhaura), there seems to be some uncertainty as to where Ballyhea came from, writings from 1837 are the first to use Ballyhea and now both seem to be used.

The LC is officially named Ballyhay which is the officially recorded place name for the townland and civil parish under the OSI and the Loganim database, Ballyhea may be in common use but it is not the official place name.

Indeed, and it's spelled Ballyhay in "Irish Railways today" of 1967.

Ballyhay is the only one to be upgraded to a four barrier crossing controlled by CCTV. The other six are to be eliminated.

Geuze

marno21 wrote: »

IE have lodged a Railway Order Application with An Bord Pleanala for this job:

https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/310286

Documents attached to the above link.

Seems like an awful lot of work / compliance / documents / assessments, just to remove a few LC.

tabbey

Geuze wrote: »

Seems like an awful lot of work / compliance / documents / assessments, just to remove a few LC.

Yes, bureaucracy gone mad.

goingnowhere

Geuze wrote: »

Seems like an awful lot of work / compliance / documents / assessments, just to remove a few LC.

Railway order provides for CPO so Irish Rail can get this done, otherwise it is a never ending game with landowners who refuse to cooperate.

It also takes the decisions out of the hands of local authorities, who have held up previous attempts to close some of these crossings.

marno21

Tender process has commenced

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/198398/1/0

AngryLips

Three years just to get to tender stage ...shocking.