Pre-run supplement

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

You might mention 3 or 4 there that are under dosed, maybe because the manufacturers feel the average Joe gets some of them from your food and drink already so doesnt need to over dose on those ones.

This is the crux of the matter regarding supplement be in consumer or supplier. If you are getting it from foods then you do not need to suppliment. Likewise if suppliers are underdosing then they are not designing a product to help people but rather just cut margin costs to make tidy profit for a low quality product)

For the record I am not anti suppliments they do have there place (for example one of the ingredients I mentioned before is valid for supplementation as citrulline would mean you are eating the rind of a watermelon to try and get enough from your food but at the levels they have in it is about 33% of recommended daily intake and even then this is something which works long term) but for the most part I would say that 99.9999% of people here (including myself) are wasting there time and money on suppliements till they properly fix there diet.

Burkie1203

Carnmore wrote: »

Time approx 23:30. PR 18:41 in 2016 but just cannot get back to that pace.

I run, walk or cycle every day - from 5 to 10k

Lack of rest could be the cause

Dtp1979

xckjoo wrote: »

Was there lots of B vitamin in it? Sounds like a Niacin Flush. Very strange sensation. Can't imagine it making you feel like running very fast either!

The pins and needles were caused by beta alanine in the pre workout.
Op, train hard and depending on your tolerance to caffeine, take a 200mg caffeine tablet 30mins before the run.

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

This is the crux of the matter regarding supplement be in consumer or supplier. If you are getting it from foods then you do not need to suppliment. Likewise if suppliers are underdosing then they are not designing a product to help people but rather just cut margin costs to make tidy profit for a low quality product)

For the record I am not anti suppliments they do have there place (for example one of the ingredients I mentioned before is valid for supplementation as citrulline would mean you are eating the rind of a watermelon to try and get enough from your food but at the levels they have in it is about 33% of recommended daily intake and even then this is something which works long term) but for the most part I would say that 99.9999% of people here (including myself) are wasting there time and money on suppliements till they properly fix there diet.

Well thats a fair enough reply.
I might actually get in touch with Revive and ask them about that.
Personally, I dont think their products are poor quality but sure I'll see what they have to say for themselves

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

Well thats a fair enough reply.
I might actually get in touch with Revive and ask them about that.
Personally, I dont think their products are poor quality but sure I'll see what they have to say for themselves

Sorry this was not an attack on this product as compared to others on the market it is probably higher quality than others but more just the general quality of supplements in general and it is worth noting that ingredients within supplements is only part of the overall picture of what is going on. A supplement can have the right stuff but just in the wrong amounts.

L-Arginine tends a poor absorption rate so is an ineffective supplement especially in anyone with higher cholesterol (as low as 1%-30%) in order to have an effect you need to be taking much higher leves

Citrulline Malate is a better alternative which is also in the product but again recomeneded into legs are closer to 3 times the amount present

CoQ10 tends to be the key component and to be fair this seems to be mid range of recommended doseage

L-Carnitine is a supplement which can take nearly 6 months of supplementing to see any sort of result of muscle carnitine levels.

I would recommend looking at animal protein intake and egg consumption before supplementing with this product unless you are on a vegan/vegetarian diet.

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

Sorry this was not an attack on this product as compared to others on the market it is probably higher quality than others but more just the general quality of supplements in general and it is worth noting that ingredients within supplements is only part of the overall picture of what is going on. A supplement can have the right stuff but just in the wrong amounts.

L-Arginine tends a poor absorption rate so is an ineffective supplement especially in anyone with higher cholesterol (as low as 1%-30%) in order to have an effect you need to be taking much higher leves

Citrulline Malate is a better alternative which is also in the product but again recomeneded into legs are closer to 3 times the amount present

CoQ10 tends to be the key component and to be fair this seems to be mid range of recommended doseage

L-Carnitine is a supplement which can take nearly 6 months of supplementing to see any sort of result of muscle carnitine levels.

I would recommend looking at animal protein intake and egg consumption before supplementing with this product unless you are on a vegan/vegetarian diet.

Ah no, i didnt think you were attacking the product but it made me curious about why the company have put in the measures that they have since IMO it is such a high standard product. Perhaps not a miracle product but defo highly commended and award winning in Ireland and UK.

I seriously wouldn't spend money on something unless there were results to back it up and this company have proven that they're top of their game.
I doubt Paula, Pippa or Tracy would put their name to half baked products.

https://www.glutenfreeireland.com/revive-active-crowned-best-product-irish-pharmacy-awards/
https://connachttribune.ie/revive-active-celebrates-top-award-at-business-summit/

to name but a few

M.m.m.

I noticed in this months Irish Runner magazine that Lizzie Lee is the new face of Revive Active. All the put down this product had from some posters here yet it continues to get some great names endorsing it.

OOnegative

M.m.m. wrote: »

I noticed in this months Irish Runner magazine that Lizzie Lee is the new face of Revive Active. All the put down this product had from some posters here yet it continues to get some great names sponsoring it.

No it’s sponsoring some great names.

M.m.m.

OOnegative wrote: »

No it’s sponsoring some great names.

Sorry about that error.

It might be worth your while checking it out, its a great mood lifter.:)

OOnegative

M.m.m. wrote: »

Sorry about that error.

It might be worth your while checking it out, its a great mood lifter.:)

Don’t know what your insinuating, but nothing wrong with my mood thanks.

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

I noticed in this months Irish Runner magazine that Lizzie Lee is the new face of Revive Active. All the put down this product had from some posters here yet it continues to get some great names endorsing it.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/7ZvD/mcdonalds-chicken-mcnuggets-featuring-lebron-james

Sports people are not infallible to superstition, recommendations etc. If someone recommends you something and you are able to get it free because you are high profile most people are willing to give something a try (if legal) That is not an argument for the efficacy.

Sponsorship is big business, just take a look at Irish bloggers and you will see people will say anything for free gear, rarely do you get honest reviews hence the whole #ad contraversy in recent times)

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/7ZvD/mcdonalds-chicken-mcnuggets-featuring-lebron-james

Are you saying Paula and Lizzie are selling their souls....you wouldn't say that to their faces.

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

Are you saying Paula and Lizzie are selling their souls....you wouldn't say that to their faces.

Have edited and clarified my point recommendations are all fine and good but that does not add weight to the efficacy.

If it works for you great more power to you but ill bring it back to your original points

M.m.m. wrote: »

Vitamins are big business the world over and mostly not a proven science so its easy to promote them or shoot them down..

This is why I have an honest unbiased opinion of the ingredients of this product, not in comparison to others (as said probably is better than many) but on its own merits which don't stack up to the claims that " its the closest thing to taking something illegal while being legal" . Simple fact is you can actually probably buy all the ingredients cheaper and make your own with effective doses.

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/7ZvD/mcdonalds-chicken-mcnuggets-featuring-lebron-james

Sports people are not infallible to superstition, recommendations etc. If someone recommends you something and you are able to get it free because you are high profile most people are willing to give something a try (if legal) That is not an argument for the efficacy.

Sponsorship is big business, just take a look at Irish bloggers and you will see people will say anything for free gear, rarely do you get honest reviews hence the whole #ad contraversy in recent times)

Well that's a matter of opinion. Anyone with any integrity about their reputation won't do that.
Even wanting to use it for free would require some faith in the product and the science.

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

Have edited and clarified my point recommendations are all fine and good but that does not add weight to the efficacy.

If it works for you great more power to you but ill bring it back to your original points



This is why I have an honest unbiased opinion of the ingredients of this product, not in comparison to others (as said probably is better than many) but on its own merits which don't stack up to the claims that " its the closest thing to taking something illegal while being legal" . Simple fact is you can actually probably buy all the ingredients cheaper and make your own with effective doses.

You only succeeded in confusing me, your own original argument is that its all nonsense but now you think it can work for people.

OOnegative

Testosterscone wrote: »

Sponsorship is big business

Exactly, and point I was making. Likes of Lizzie could do with any extra few bob in her pocket to help with whatever in her career.

M.m.m.

OOnegative wrote: »

Exactly, and point I was making. Likes of Lizzie could do with any extra few bob in her pocket to help with whatever in her career.

Any what about Paula and Tracy Piggott?


I just couldn't see Tracy Piggott endorsing rubbish for a few quid

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

You only succeeded in confusing me, your own original argument is that its all nonsense but now you think it can work for people.

My original post said it was expensive pee coloring I stand by that the ingredients that have any decent backing to them are under dosed.

My comment there was about placebo effect (which ironically has more scientific backing that majority of ingredients and claims here so the statements are non contradictory

Testosterscone

OOnegative wrote: »

Exactly, and point I was making. Likes of Lizzie could do with any extra few bob in her pocket to help with whatever in her career.

Would imagine it’s priducts only generally it’s way supplement companies work as good few of the northern runners were are sent same products

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

My original post said it was expensive pee coloring I stand by that the ingredients that have any decent backing to them are under dosed.

My comment there was about placebo effect (which ironically has more scientific backing that majority of ingredients and claims here so the statements are non contradictory

But have you studied these formula's Luke?
Are you an expert in this field?
Honestly, sometimes I read your posts about running and I know you're spot on, its easy to see you have a long history and interest in running.


But you say some things about other stuff and I'm baffled at how you act like you've a guru on the topic. It seems quite arrogant.



https://www.her.ie/health/tried-tested-dietary-supplement-revive-active-31552

CWF

Caffeine tabs or coffee

El CabaIIo

Does anyone actually know how well or unwell any supplements work outside of lab testing?

I say this from a very ignorant understanding of vitamin and minerals etc but doesn't supplementation take weeks and months of usage to actually become effective and that improvements are going to be so subtly increased over time that it would be hard to tell how effective they are due to very slow absorbstion rates. I'm basing this off things like iron supplementation(which admittedly will be a lot stronger as it's your oxygen) and the type of tests NOP were doing on L-Carnitine and they were taking huge dosages, with Vit D where you need a load of Sun and it still takes ages to deplete once winter comes around but as far as I can tell, I don't conciously notice any difference in my health or performance after a good summer. I know it does something as it's in my biology but in terms of noticeable effect, nada! Maybe the sublitiness of the increase over time means I don't feel the full effect so I'm wondering how people actually know anything is working without a lab test or blood test?

And even at that, how can you correlate those to performance?

OOnegative

CWF wrote: »

Caffeine tabs or coffee

Beetroot juice?

Testosterscone

M.m.m. wrote: »

But have you studied these formula's Luke?
Are you an expert in this field?
Honestly, sometimes I read your posts about running and I know you're spot on, its easy to see you have a long history and interest in running.


But you say some things about other stuff and I'm baffled at how you act like you've a guru on the topic. It seems quite arrogant.



https://www.her.ie/health/tried-tested-dietary-supplement-revive-active-31552

I have gone through the ingredient list which is available in there site yes which is where my conclusion came from

No it is not my field of expertise I would consider myself a bit of a nerd and research papers would generally be furstbport if call over current affairs and general media and an area which has grabbed my attention in last few year post NOP claims is supplements

More than happy to pull some good papers on efficacy and dosage when I can actually get to s computer but in mean time examine.com is a decent starting point for anyone looking for information on some if these ingredients.

If there is any papers or that I am missing which support the claims if the marketer. Her.ie articles or celebrity endorsements I am more than happy to discuss and debate

CWF

OOnegative wrote: »

Beetroot juice?

Not sure if there's any solid esearch saying that beetroot juice will enhance athletic performance. Caffeine on the other hand is said to enhance performance by up to 10%

Testosterscone

El CabaIIo wrote: »

Does anyone actually know how well or unwell any supplements work outside of lab testing?

I say this from a very ignorant understanding of vitamin and minerals etc but doesn't supplementation take weeks and months of usage to actually become effective and that improvements are going to be so subtly increased over time that it would be hard to tell how effective they are due to very slow absorbstion rates. I'm basing this off things like iron supplementation(which admittedly will be a lot stronger as it's your oxygen) and the type of tests NOP were doing on L-Carnitine and they were taking huge dosages, with Vit D where you need a load of Sun and it still takes ages to deplete once winter comes around but as far as I can tell, I don't conciously notice any difference in my health or performance after a good summer. I know it does something as it's in my biology but in terms of noticeable effect, nada! Maybe the sublitiness of the increase over time means I don't feel the full effect so I'm wondering how people actually know anything is working without a lab test or blood test?

And even at that, how can you correlate those to performance?

The likes of L Carnitine can take up to 6 months to show effects others like beta alanine, creatine and and iron again are based in cumulative effect. It is important to state that this is with consistent supplementation as these all have varying washout periods also (creatine being amongst the shortest which is why research has moved away from the need for cycling)

Others like L citrulline (blood volumiser) and caffeine have a more immediate effect on performance and work better as a pre workout

Singer

M.m.m. wrote: »

Any what about Paula and Tracy Piggott?


I just couldn't see Tracy Piggott endorsing rubbish for a few quid

Sonia O'Sullivan retweeted some booze promo earlier today: https://twitter.com/Coole_Swan/status/1075080888256479233

Maybe she was looking to win a few bottles, but I reckon her profile meant she was sent a few quid for this. I don't think this is a bad thing - we all have to put bread on the table, and it's not as if athletes (and former athletes) are paid well.

M.m.m.

Testosterscone wrote: »

I have gone through the ingredient list which is available in there site yes which is where my conclusion came from

No it is not my field of expertise I would consider myself a bit of a nerd and research papers would generally be furstbport if call over current affairs and general media and an area which has grabbed my attention in last few year post NOP claims is supplements

More than happy to pull some good papers on efficacy and dosage when I can actually get to s computer but in mean time examine.com is a decent starting point for anyone looking for information on some if these ingredients.

If there is any papers or that I am missing which support the claims if the marketer. Her.ie articles or celebrity endorsements I am more than happy to discuss and debate

Personally I would point you to the company and ask you to speak to their experts who have probably studied for almost a decade in the field sooner than trawl through junk on Google Scholar. I don't think reading through random conference papers constitutes knowing anything really.

Testosterscone wrote: »

The likes of L Carnitine can take up to 6 months to show effects others like beta alanine, creatine and and iron again are based in cumulative effect. It is important to state that this is with consistent supplementation as these all have varying washout periods also (creatine being amongst the shortest which is why research has moved away from the need for cycling)

Others like L citrulline (blood volumiser) and caffeine have a more immediate effect on performance and work better as a pre workout

Again I'm confused here, you seem to be saying these ingredients enhance performance.


Nobody is claiming that any of this stuff is instant, well actually I can personally say the kick effect is instant with one sachet of Revive since I have used it and can attest to it but the longer term ingredients may well take months or whatever. Like a lot supplements and the likes and even with medication things dont take effect immediately.

M.m.m.

Singer wrote: »

Sonia O'Sullivan retweeted some booze promo earlier today: https://twitter.com/Coole_Swan/status/1075080888256479233

Maybe she was looking to win a few bottles, but I reckon her profile meant she was sent a few quid for this. I don't think this is a bad thing - we all have to put bread on the table, and it's not as if athletes (and former athletes) are paid well.

Does she claim that if you drink this you will perform better?
I dont see how this endorsement has anything to do with supplements.

Singer

M.m.m. wrote: »

Does she claim that if you drink this you will perform better?
I dont see how this endorsement has anything to do with supplements.

You are confusing "endorsement" with the actual efficacy of supplements.

That said, I ran a recent PB after necking a load of beetroot juice (and wearing a pair of Vaporfly 4%s #marginalgains).