No job, No car, No hope?

itziebitzie

Hey all,

I pretty much think I know the answer to my own dilemma, but I am having major problems actually actioning my decision.

I have been dating a guy for a few months now. He is a really really nice guy - kind, loving, caring, trustworthy etc etc. However, my main concern is around his motivations and aspirations in life and the wedge that I feel this is ultimately going to put between us. He is almost 48 and does not work. In fact, he really has never worked "properly" (sorry, I hate to categorise a 9 to 5 job as proper work.....), doesn't drive, lives at home with his mom etc etc.

I have a decent job, own my own home etc etc. I am not saying that I am the bees knees, but I am just trying to put it into perspective.

I have really tried to encourage him to look for work (we had a bit of a pow wow about it a month or so ago), but I know that he is paying lip service to it and just keeping me "happy" by telling me he is looking for a job. Deep down I know he is happier "tipping around" during the day, living on the dole etc etc.

He doesn't ever ask me for money, nor does he expect me to pay for anything for him, and would always give me money if we were in Tesco etc for food (he comes over most evenings... I cook)..... but thats where it ends... we cant afford to go out for drinks / dinner / weekend away etc as I really cant afford to have to pay all of this myself....

I find myself wishing that he was a total a$$hole, so that ending it would be easier..... but he really is a sweetheart......

I must sound like a materialistic snob- I genuinely am not - but I just feel that there is no future in this.....

Any words of wisdom or comments?

thanks to all.

Dial Hard

itziebitzie wrote:

I must sound like a materialistic snob- I genuinely am not - but I just feel that there is no future in this.....

You don't, at all. He's essentially a giant overgrown child. Has never had a proper job and still lives at home at 48??? Nope, nope, nopity-nope.

itziebitzie wrote:

Any words of wisdom or comments?

Yes - the two of you are fundamentally incompatible. Cut your losses before it gets any harder.

osarusan

He can live like that if he wants, but it's completely reasonable (and fairly predictable) that people who would otherwise be interested in him will find that a dealbreaker.

Nothing snobby about wanting a life with pleasures that are beyond what the dole can provide.

miezekatze

I think this will always be a problem between you. Like, what would your future together look like if you were to move in together? Would he effectively become your dependant that you'd have to feed, clothe and chauffeur around? What does he expect his own future to look like? I'm not sure this is going to work out if he doesn't grow up a bit.

mickuhaha

It sounds like he is happy with his lifestyle. If you don't also enjoy it you need to move on . I don't think he will suddenly want a different life and it's unfair for you tto expect him to change. From a personal point of view I wouldn't like to be in that position myself but he is not me. He has no responsibility and so can do as he sees fit. If he is happy leave him go. If you want more you need to let him know what your expectations of him are if you plan to remain in a relationship ..IE ..get money for going out, get a degree, get cultured ect if that's what is needed for you to stay with him. Men prefer when women are forward with them .

LolaJJ

Hey OP

Just because someone is a nice person doesn't mean they get away with being carried through life by other people.

It's a bit odd to be content to live at home aged 48 and also for him not to have secure employment. Have you thought about where you want the relationship to go? Can you see yourselves being able to go on nice holidays or being able to pay you rent in the future?

Ursus Horribilis

If I wrote what's truly on my mind here, I'd get a card. Let's just say that I'm delighted to see my hard earned taxes are being spent well on this useless manchild.

He must be charm personified because he doesn't have a lot else going for him. He has proved through his life to date that he doesn't have a proactive bone in his body. Really, if this relationship progresses all he'll be doing is shifting from one mammy to another. You! He isn't going to change at this stage of his life so don't delude yourself into thinking he's going to start getting up in the morning and going to work or anything a normal person will do. I think you'll come to resent him and his idle ways because you're the one who's going to be carrying the burden here.

dellas1979

itziebitzie wrote: »

but he really is a sweetheart......

I dont doubt he is from how you describe him. You can be a nice person, and be on the dole.

But for whatever his reasons (and at 48, I suspect they are pretty deep rooted), he has chosen this lifestyle (no matter how it's spun, or poor me stories).

It's come up for you already-think about this long term and logically.

Are you willing to be a financial drain for someone? He should be the one talking about getting a job. Or retraining to get a job. Not you asking him. You telling him what to do (because its what you want) isnt going to change him.

lalababa

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elfy4eva

You gave him the benefit of the doubt, had your pow wow, made your concerns known. He said he would change but he hasn't. It's clear he did not take your concerns and constructive advice seriously which is in my opinion a disrespect to you.

The ball is in your court now. Are you happy continuing as you are or spending more time trying to convince him to change? If not, well you have your answer.

Best of luck.

Addle

I think that you're not equals.
Equal doesn't have to mean the same, but that you make contributions of equivalent value.
I think you'd just end up resenting him.

rainbowtrout

A 48 year old man who has chosen not to work for the past 30 years is not going to go out and get a job now because you've asked him to.

we cant afford to go out for drinks / dinner / weekend away etc as I really cant afford to have to pay all of this myself....

You're not wrong to want to go out for drinks etc. It's fairly basic stuff, and if he had lost his job and was actively looking for one, it would just be a temporary thing. But it's a permanent thing in his life. He values not working, and living off the dole, more than being in employment to provide an income and being able to do a bit more with his money. It's not something you are ever going to be able to do.

If you are to extrapolate a bit further and the relationship becomes more serious, what road are you going down? You own your own home so presumably can afford a mortgage. So what happens if he moves in? Will you be left paying the majority of the household bills because he can't afford it? Will you resent being with him because you can never afford to go anywhere with him? As you said no nights out, no dinners, no weekends away. No holidays either most likely. He'd also have no incentive to work, as you would just be replacing his mother in providing a home and meals.


Question: I know the dole isn't a lot of money, and presumably some of his money goes towards his upkeep in his mother's house, but what does he do with the rest of it?? Even going to the local for one or two pints every now and again isn't going to break the bank completely. What does he spend his money on?

Ursus Horribilis

rainbowtrout wrote: »

A 48 year old man who has chosen not to work for the past 30 years is not going to go out and get a job now because you've asked him to.

I'll take it further than that. A 48-year-old man with no track record of working has a snowball's chance in Hell of getting a job. Who in their right mind would take on someone who has rendered themselves unemployable by choice? A person's past behaviour is a pretty good indicator of what they'll be like going forward. It's not looking too promising, is it?

I also wonder at his family background. Why did his mother (and father?) enable him like this? What happened to him to make him so lazy and lacking in ambition?

Something else Rainbowtrout said has raised an interesting issue. If you have your own place and he moves in with you, he could be entitled to a share of it if you break up after a few years. The co-habitation laws in this country are not to be sniffed at.

Big Bag of Chips

osarusan wrote: »

Nothing snobby about wanting a life with pleasures that are beyond what the dole can provide.

Absolutely. But at 48 if he has never had to actually provide for himself, then the life obviously suits him fine. I just think it's appalling that an able bodied man, with no underlying reasons for not being able to work has been merrily provided for by the state for 30 years.

Cut your losses, OP. As others mentioned if this relationship progresses much further he will simply move from his mother to you. He has no interest in getting a job and working for a wage. He has no interest in going away or ever treating you (both) to anything. He has no ambition to amount to anything other than being given money to sit in his mother's house.

Not my idea of attractive.

Bigus

I'd say he's quiet happy that he's almost found a replacement for his mammy with a house and all, he's not as stupid as he seems no wonder he's nice , move on .
I know somebody in the family like that who we're all waiting to get off their arse for the last 30 years , I'm going to their 60 th birthday party next month ,,,,,,,everything organised by others, otherwise this person would sit at home alone.

itziebitzie

Hi All

OP here. Firstly sincere thanks for all your replies - I have read them through numerous times.

You are all completely correct and have really confirmed my decision. The few things that really struck with me about this situation are:

1. Why he chose this lifestyle - his father (RIP) was a really bad alcoholic - OK I know this is awful and I have no doubt it had a massive effect on him and his siblings, but we all have had some sort of crap to deal with, and unfortunately thats life and you have to grow up and face it... it cant be an excuse to just check out of real life.

2. What he spends his money on - this is a good one - I really don't know. I think he might pay towards the mothers mortgage etc, I don't probe. Ironically (after me trying to get him to get a job (!)) I kinda feel its inappropriate...... He must spend a lot on rural buses (we don't live in Dublin) I guess as he doesn't drive...

3. My fears on him moving in - I can manage my finances to pay my mortgage and bills, so really thankfully I don't need someone to help out... but if he was ever to move in.... I know I would be completely resentful to him sponging...

4. I do feel like his mammy - he is quite happy to let me go out to work at 6.30am (I commute... ), and for him to lie on and then get up and just do a "few jobs" around the house for me like make the bed and put out the bin... thats the extent of what he does for the day...

Ahhhhhh and to make it all worse, its his birthday next week and here I am like the bloody B!tch about to ruin it all !!!!!!!! The witch of Halloween or wha?!

Ursus Horribilis

If you feel you need to end it, just do it regardless of the date. Next thing Christmas will be around the corner. Then Valentine's Day. Throw in your anniversary, your birthday, date of his father's death etc and there'll never be a good time.

Big Bag of Chips

He's 48. Its not like his birthday is a big day for him! It'll be just another day. I agree, the resentment will now just grow and you'll be only hanging around for the sake of hanging around.

rainbowtrout

itziebitzie wrote: »

1. Why he chose this lifestyle - his father (RIP) was a really bad alcoholic - OK I know this is awful and I have no doubt it had a massive effect on him and his siblings, but we all have had some sort of crap to deal with, and unfortunately thats life and you have to grow up and face it... it cant be an excuse to just check out of real life.

Yes it is crap, and some people end up going down the same road. But it's not an excuse. He's managed to have a functional relationship with you for the last number of months. An alcoholic father is not a reason to never work, if anything it should be an incentive to get off his arse, get a job and get out of that situation.

itziebitzie wrote: »

2. What he spends his money on - this is a good one - I really don't know. I think he might pay towards the mothers mortgage etc, I don't probe. Ironically (after me trying to get him to get a job (!)) I kinda feel its inappropriate...... He must spend a lot on rural buses (we don't live in Dublin) I guess as he doesn't drive...

Well, you don't need to know down to the penny what he spends his money on, but a few months in you'd have a fair idea even from what he says about his life. Even if he is contributing something to her, his overheads living at home are always going to be less than if he was out on his own, or if he moved in with you.

itziebitzie wrote: »

3. My fears on him moving in - I can manage my finances to pay my mortgage and bills, so really thankfully I don't need someone to help out... but if he was ever to move in.... I know I would be completely resentful to him sponging...

This is important, it's hard to maintain a relationship in the longterm if there's no respect for the other person. I don't think you can do that if resentment comes into it. If he was in a job that earned a low wage it would be different, but a refusal to work and expect to be supported would grate on me. I wouldn't go there.

itziebitzie wrote: »

4. I do feel like his mammy - he is quite happy to let me go out to work at 6.30am (I commute... ), and for him to lie on and then get up and just do a "few jobs" around the house for me like make the bed and put out the bin... thats the extent of what he does for the day...

Ahhhhhh and to make it all worse, its his birthday next week and here I am like the bloody B!tch about to ruin it all !!!!!!!! The witch of Halloween or wha?!

I'd find it hard to find the lack of ambition to do anything attractive. Playing the mammy role is not how equal relationships are maintained. I think you know what is coming. There isn't ever a good time to do it. Good luck.

Pelvis

TBH, I'm left wondering why you're in a relationship with him at all? Did he keep these facts from you at first? I feel like if you were to learn all this stuff on a first date, most people wouldn't be going back for a second.

Arrival

What a joke of a country that wasters like this guy can stay on the dole basically indefinitely. People like him need to be forced into a sink or swim situation because clearly they don't naturally have any will power or ambition to better themselves. This guy definitely feels delighted with his lot, thinking he's found a good replacement for his parents to leech off of and he quite clearly doesn't respect you since he's not made an effort to change the situation after you argued with him about it. This guy is never going to change and he's taking you for granted. You can't even go for drinks and trips away, very basic things in any healthy and happy relationship. Pull the rug out from under him and show him the consequences of being a lazy, selfish loser please

wiggle16

Hi OP

I was in this exact situation with my ex, except that he didnt live with the mother. I can tell you it will not stop being an issue for you and will fester, no matter how lovely he is. My ex is a genuinely lovely person. But even genuinely lovely people can find an excuse not to get up off their arse and make a life for themselves: you don't ned to make those excuses for him. The simple answer, and the only one you really need, is that he is simply as lazy as sin.

Others are right. He will not change, not at 48. He certainly will not change with the status quo of two mammies and a free ride through life. I'm telling you now it gets old very quickly and doesn't age well.

My ex did change, but only after I left him. He has a job and his own flat now. Fair play to him. But the point is that a person has to want to do that, to better themselves, for themselves. He would not do it for me. And your bloke is not going to do it for you either.

Don't put it off, don't invent reasons to stay a bit longer or give him chance after chance. Theres always a million reasons not to do something.

Best of luck and mind yourself either way x

Ursus Horribilis

On the birthday thing, don't let that dictate your thinking. He'll probably not want the present you get him anyway. Nor value the birthday celebration after the event.

A long time ago, a woman posted here about how her boyfriend had gone on a romantic break abroad with her. He had realised before the trip that he wanted to break up but didn't want to ruin what she'd been really looking forward to. The trip was wonderful but the breakup ruined all her memories of it. She saw everything they'd said and done in a new light. Mostly she wished he'd been honest.

Purple Mountain

Just to add here OP.

Suppose you do move in together.
His means for the dole would need to be reassessed as he would be deemed as your partner.
Essentially your income would have to be disclosed to the department and his dole would undoubtedly be cut in line with your means.
I don't see how you could be seen as snobby.
It sounds like resentment could build up and there's no way back from that.
There's nothing wrong with wanting equal status in a relationship.

MissShihTzu

I was on the dole for nearly four and a half years before I finally got a job. And I was proactively looking, networking, going to every poxy job fair going, doing courses and doing everything I could to get one. Welfare were constantly on my back hustling me to attend one of their (largely useless) workshops and meeting with the inspectors. If I didn't go, my dole would be cut. Every time I attended a meeting, I would come in armed with a big wodge of e-mail correspondence proving I was actively looking for work.

How the hell did your partner get away with not working for over 30 years?? In the interests of science, I think we should be told his secret!

I am wondering if he might be depressed and stuck in a rut, thereby not having the confidence to look for work. ANY kind of work. Don't tell me he is happy living on E188 a week, not able to go out, go for dinner, go away on holidays, buy nice clothes, run a little car. I know I sure as hell wasn't!!!

Fair enough if he can't get work. If he WON'T get work. Different story. And I'd be gone so fast, his head would spin!!

rainbowtrout

MissShihTzu wrote: »

I was on the dole for nearly four and a half years before I finally got a job. And I was proactively looking, networking, going to every poxy job fair going, doing courses and doing everything I could to get one. Welfare were constantly on my back hustling me to attend one of their (largely useless) workshops and meeting with the inspectors. If I didn't go, my dole would be cut. Every time I attended a meeting, I would come in armed with a big wodge of e-mail correspondence proving I was actively looking for work.

How the hell did your partner get away with not working for over 30 years?? In the interests of science, I think we should be told his secret!

I am wondering if he might be depressed and stuck in a rut, thereby not having the confidence to look for work. ANY kind of work. Don't tell me he is happy living on E188 a week, not able to go out, go for dinner, go away on holidays, buy nice clothes, run a little car. I know I sure as hell wasn't!!!

Fair enough if he can't get work. If he WON'T get work. Different story. And I'd be gone so fast, his head would spin!!

There are people who actively choose a life on the dole. It's a completely different mindset and impossible to understand for anyone who has a work ethic and a bit of ambition. The dole don't bother chasing people like him as they know it's a waste of time.

I suspect the OP's boyfriend is in this category.

QueenRizla

Pelvis wrote: »

TBH, I'm left wondering why you're in a relationship with him at all? Did he keep these facts from you at first? I feel like if you were to learn all this stuff on a first date, most people wouldn't be going back for a second.

OP, I’m wondering about above too. It would be such a turnoff to find out a man his age was uneducated, basically on the dole for 30 years, doesn’t drive and lives with his Mother. I’d actually be mortified if someone saw me on a date with him, never mind sleep with him and call him your boyfriend. It makes my skin crawl. I’m sorry for being blunt but is he of normal intelligence?

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

waxmelts2000

OP I was in a similar situation he lived at home with his mother on the dole ( willingly) I listened to all the lies and the empty promises of ill get a job soon, I'll do a course blah blah blah. I stayed with him for nearly 4 years and in that time he worked for 5 weeks only. I see your guy is a nice guy but honestly he will not change so don't be like me and waste any more time as he is not willing to change. Best of luck .

Emme

itziebitzie wrote: »

... but if he was ever to move in.... I know I would be completely resentful to him sponging...

...he is quite happy to let me go out to work at 6.30am (I commute... ), and for him to lie on and then get up and just do a "few jobs" around the house for me like make the bed and put out the bin... thats the extent of what he does for the day...he comes over most evenings... I cook

OP what is the attraction to this man? Of course he's going to be nice to a laying hen who cooks for him and does everything his mammy does for him and has a house of her own to boot.

He doesn't seem to have ever worked and at this stage he has no intention of doing so no matter what he says.

He doesn't drive - that would be acceptable if he lived in a city where he had ready access to public transport and everything he needed was close by. But he lives in a rural area! So he will need somebody else to drive him around if the rural buses don't go where he wants to go. Who will that be if you stay with him? You!

Even though you get up at 6.30am and commute he still expects you to cook dinner for him in the evenings. Yes he helps pay for groceries but he still sits back and lets you do most of the work. He makes the bed and takes out the bins - big deal! It's not as if bins need to be taken out every day. Dinner has to be cooked every day!

He is on to a good thing and he knows it. Another poster said that his dole might be cut if he moves in with you as a co-habitant. That would mean more of a financial burden for you and no money for him to help you buy the groceries for his dinner. And he would be entitled to half your place after 5 years and he wouldn't have to lift a finger in the meantime.

I bet he let you know his birthday was coming up. By all means buy him a present if you want - maybe a smart shirt and tie for job interviews. Even so I would advise you to end the relationship as soon as possible. You don't seem to be getting any benefit from it whatsoever.

It is hard to find a single man once you get to a certain age but that doesn't mean that you have to accept a person who is a drain on you and is in no position to contribute to the relationship.

You are not materialistic or a snob. You just don't want to carry a manchild for the rest of your life. His mammy is probably delighted with you because she thinks you might take him off her hands.

If you end it there is a remote chance that he might cop on and look for a job. Then again he might not.

lalababa

OP.
Ask yourself the following questions.
Are you getting what you need from the relationship?
If not then leave it.
If you are getting what you need, but have certain problems with his lifestyle then talk to him about it. He may very well change it for YOU.
If you were going out with a partner who had a job and a car and you loved him, but he became disabled and couldn't work or drive, would you think about leaving him?
Or if he was independently wealthy and didn't work and hated driving would you leave?
If your man got a menial job and a rusty banger would you jump for joy? Or after awhile would you want him to get a better job and a newer car?
I don't know about the no hope bit. What does it mean?