House to be sold, we dont want to go

HairMare

Hi all,

I'm not sure where to go with this, we were given 20 weeks notice in the middle of july, we are in the property with over 5.5 years, we have tried to find somehwere, both working etc, but we have a teeny tiny dog...


our notice is currently on 28 november, i have begged and pleaded for an extension until after xmas.


Property managment company won;t budge, they want vacant posession before selling, they have two other tenants who have longer notice and who are affected by same arrangement and they are being let stay whilst houses on sale...


Should i contact receiver or bank - i have offered to increase rent for the extension period also...

Any advice please ?

Gumbo

HairMare wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm not sure where to go with this, we were given 20 weeks notice in the middle of july, we are in the property with over 5.5 years, we have tried to find somehwere, both working etc, but we have a teeny tiny dog...


our notice is currently on 28 november, i have begged and pleaded for an extension until after xmas.


Property managment company won;t budge, they want vacant posession before selling, they have two other tenants who have longer notice and who are affected by same arrangement and they are being let stay whilst houses on sale...


Should i contact receiver or bank - i have offered to increase rent for the extension period also...

Any advice please ?

Get onto the County Council Homeless section and tell them you will be homeless from the 28th Nov. They will offer advice.

The landlord sounds like they have given you the correct notice period, and they cannot sell before the property is vacated. The new buyer may want to move in before Christmas, so they cannot let you stay until after.

wonski

If the notice was valid there is not much you can do.

What notice other tenants get won't matter.

While I understand being asked to move out after 5 years is inconvenient, that risk comes with renting a place.

JeffKenna

Mod Note

Do not post illegal advice again.

HairMare

I understand that, but our house isn't on the market yet. and has no signs on going on the market.

The other two houses have gone on the open market with sitting tenants...

Who have almost 6 months left on their tenancies / notice.

All I would be looking for is to remain on a month by month basis after the notice period expires.

Not being smart, but they’re keeping to their obligations so you should find a new place and move.

You legally have no rights to stay (your dog is not their problem) as long as they’re doing what they should, which it sounds like they are.

Other tenants are not your concern, at all. That’s between them and the PMC but does not and should not have any bearing on your legal obligation to give up possession.

It’s a crap situation but it’s not their problem to find a new place for you. Put your energy and resource into making arrangements.

baldbear

What do you want people to say? Stay and refuse to leave? My sister was in a similar situation with 2 kids. She was told tough luck we don't care we are getting our son to move into the house .

House was then put back up for rent 30℅ more. She brought a case to the tenancy board & won.

So keep an eye out that the landlord isn't pulling a fast one.

HairMare

I have spent the last four months trying to find a new place to be fair, this is not the situation I want to be in, primarily because i work too long and hard for this hassle.

I was wondering if anyone had been in a similar situation and got a better outcome.

The other tenants houses are owned by same landlord who is in receivership - so its very much my business if they get to stay on in the houses.

HairMare

this is my concern as our rent was below market value and we have offered to increase this... that's why i am considering contacting receiver / bank directly...

splinter65

HairMare wrote: »

this is my concern as our rent was below market value and we have offered to increase this... that's why i am considering contacting receiver / bank directly...

The landlord has legally given you notice to leave his property. On what grounds are you demanding to stay?

witchgirl26

HairMare wrote: »

The other tenants houses are owned by same landlord who is in receivership - so its very much my business if they get to stay on in the houses.

OP it really is none of your business at all about the other tenants at all. You're contract is about you and that and nothing that anyone else, despite being under the same landlord has, affects that.

HairMare wrote: »

this is my concern as our rent was below market value and we have offered to increase this... that's why i am considering contacting receiver / bank directly...

If the landlord is in receivership and therefore the bank/receiver is the one ultimately pursuing the sale offering higher rent will not really make a difference. What they want is their money returned, not to become a landlord themselves.

I do feel for you in terms of that has been your home for over 5 years but ultimately the landlord has done their obligations in relation to giving correct notice to you. They are entitled to want to sell with vacant possession where they can.

DubCount

OP. Even though you are paying below market rent, the LL may not be able to accept an increase, even when you are willing to pay more. If you are in a RPZ, then rent increases must follow RPZ rules. If its less than 2 years since the last rent review outside of a RPZ, it also cant be invalid for the LL to apply an increase, whether you are prepared to pay or not.

The teeny tiny dog, is a big big problem. Finding somewhere to rent is hard without a dog, and it gets much much harder with a dog - even a teeny one. I know that is tough, but its a jungle out there.

Finally, contact Threshold to ensure your eviction notice is fully valid etc.. They may find a loophole to buy you some time.

Unfortunately, the property owner will need vacant possession to sell, so you will eventually have to move out.

Good luck.....

Fol20

HairMare wrote: »

I have spent the last four months trying to find a new place to be fair, this is not the situation I want to be in, primarily because i work too long and hard for this hassle.

I was wondering if anyone had been in a similar situation and got a better outcome.

The other tenants houses are owned by same landlord who is in receivership - so its very much my business if they get to stay on in the houses.

It isnt your business at all if they are staying or leaving. Whatever they do does not matter in the slightest. You have been provided with legit notice yet you are trying to angle to stay longer than what has been offered. LL are given a bad wrap for not following everything by the book and when they are, you now see why ll are getting out of the market in droves.

Fol20

DubCount wrote: »

OP. Even though you are paying below market rent, the LL may not be able to accept an increase, even when you are willing to pay more. If you are in a RPZ, then rent increases must follow RPZ rules. If its less than 2 years since the last rent review outside of a RPZ, it also cant be invalid for the LL to apply an increase, whether you are prepared to pay or not.

The teeny tiny dog, is a big big problem. Finding somewhere to rent is hard without a dog, and it gets much much harder with a dog - even a teeny one. I know that is tough, but its a jungle out there.

Finally, contact Threshold to ensure your eviction notice is fully valid etc.. They may find a loophole to buy you some time.

Unfortunately, the property owner will need vacant possession to sell, so you will eventually have to move out.

Good luck.....

Be careful with this as you may find it difficult to get a reference if you are refusing to leave especially if the ll has provided you with the required notice. If a case is lodged against the RTB to evict you, you can potentially get blacklisted from certain ll. I know any time i check references against new tenants, i first check if they have had any disputes with the RTB and everything is public on their website.

liquoriceall

Would you contact the receiver and ask to buy which would save them the hassle of having the place vacant and on the market?

HairMare

DubCount wrote: »

OP. Even though you are paying below market rent, the LL may not be able to accept an increase, even when you are willing to pay more. If you are in a RPZ, then rent increases must follow RPZ rules. If its less than 2 years since the last rent review outside of a RPZ, it also cant be invalid for the LL to apply an increase, whether you are prepared to pay or not.

The teeny tiny dog, is a big big problem. Finding somewhere to rent is hard without a dog, and it gets much much harder with a dog - even a teeny one. I know that is tough, but its a jungle out there.

Finally, contact Threshold to ensure your eviction notice is fully valid etc.. They may find a loophole to buy you some time.

Unfortunately, the property owner will need vacant possession to sell, so you will eventually have to move out.

Good luck.....

Thanks for your message. we have tried everywhere. Were not in a pressure zone but i think they may be afraid to look for or accept an increased rent in the circumstances.

i understand the bank wants a return but the other houses in the portfolio are being advertised for sale at 25% less than market value for the estate that their in.

I think it would sit easier with me if we got till after xmas at least it would take some of the stress off me.

it will all sort its self out in the end but its the sheer stress at the minute.

Cockadoodledoo

I don’t understand. You have been searching for the last 4 months and not found anywhere but you want to extend your stay on a month by month basis? That’s potentially even more stressful not knowing when the last month would be and where would you go then if that happened at such short notice?

HairMare

liquoriceall wrote: »

Would you contact the receiver and ask to buy which would save them the hassle of having the place vacant and on the market?

We tried this option with property management company when the ll first went it to receivership - we got a fairly snotty "it would have to go to open market for transparency and making sure the ll's best interests are met. "

yet they have the other properties up currently for less than market - and they wont tell me the asking for ours...

we considered putting an offer one of the other properties but that will just result in someone of the other tenants in the same situation as us...

and a gap in between when we have to be out and they have to be out...

HairMare

Cockadoodledoo wrote: »

I don’t understand. You have been searching for the last 4 months and not found anywhere but you want to extend your stay on a month by month basis? That’s potentially even more stressful not knowing when the last month would be and where would you go then if that happened at such short notice?

the industry i work in busiest time is hear till xmas, im working around the clock new year i can have all the time i want off but nothing this side of it.

Fol20

HairMare wrote: »

We tried this option with property management company when the ll first went it to receivership - we got a fairly snotty "it would have to go to open market for transparency and making sure the ll's best interests are met. "

yet they have the other properties up currently for less than market - and they wont tell me the asking for ours...

we considered putting an offer one of the other properties but that will just result in someone of the other tenants in the same situation as us...

and a gap in between when we have to be out and they have to be out...

Thats not a snotty response, he simply telling you the facts that are required when it goes into receivership. Its all about appearance and normally it need to be on the open market for a pre defined period before an offer will be accepted

If you’re unable to find a property because of your dog then you may have to consider giving the dog for adoption or to a family member. The alternative is become homeless. The LL has done everything by law and you have no basis in which to remain beyond the notice period. The other tenants been given a longer time to stay is not really relevant either to your situation

Fol20

HairMare wrote: »

i understand the bank wants a return but the other houses in the portfolio are being advertised for sale at 25% less than market value for the estate that their in.

I think it would sit easier with me if we got till after xmas at least it would take some of the stress off me.

This can be a tactic by the estate agent to drum up interest.

It doesnt matter where it sits with you, you dont own the property and you are only renting. you were given decent notice and failed to find a place. Its up to you to move asap.

Pawwed Rig

Letting you stay after the notice period potentially invalidates that notice so I can see why they may just want vacant possession (advice I received a number of years ago so may or may not still be the case).
Post the area you are in. Someone may be able to help.
Dog is your biggest problem I would say. I wouldn't take a tenant with dogs myself.

witchgirl26

HairMare wrote: »

Thanks for your message. we have tried everywhere. Were not in a pressure zone but i think they may be afraid to look for or accept an increased rent in the circumstances.

i understand the bank wants a return but the other houses in the portfolio are being advertised for sale at 25% less than market value for the estate that their in.

I think it would sit easier with me if we got till after xmas at least it would take some of the stress off me.

it will all sort its self out in the end but its the sheer stress at the minute.

It may have nothing to do with looking for a rent increase for fear that it wouldn't be given but more that they aren't looking to continue with the property being rented at all. Neither the receiver nor the bank are in this for the longterm aspect of rental return but to get the most for the property to clear the landlords debts.

A lot of places will be advertised for less than market price with the hope that it will drum up interest and go above the market price at the end.

I completely get that it would take the stress off but unfortunately in this situation, that won't be a consideration the bank or receiver will necessarily give any thought to. Their relationship is with the landlord and not you. And they've no guarantee that if they let it go that long, that you would actually leave after that period either.

HairMare wrote: »

We tried this option with property management company when the ll first went it to receivership - we got a fairly snotty "it would have to go to open market for transparency and making sure the ll's best interests are met. "

yet they have the other properties up currently for less than market - and they wont tell me the asking for ours...

we considered putting an offer one of the other properties but that will just result in someone of the other tenants in the same situation as us...

and a gap in between when we have to be out and they have to be out...

For receivership sales they do have to go to open market for the sale so as that it is transparent rather than pursuing a private sale route. They may not know the asking price yet as they may be waiting for the vacant possession before getting the estate agents in to do the full valuation. Again the property management company somewhat have their hands tied by this.

While it's admirable that you are considering the other tenants, ultimately you have to look out for yourselves here. If you want to put in an offer, do. Likelihood is that the other tenants have been given their notice properly as you appear to have been and will have to find somewhere else anyway. You not bidding isn't going to change that.

Mrs OBumble

HairMare wrote: »

Should i contact receiver or bank - i have offered to increase rent for the extension period also...

Any advice please ?

Ask them. It's not illegal to ask, can't hurt and might help.

Don't ask for a month by month basis, legally such a thing doesn't exist.

But you can mutually agree to a longer-than-required notice period.

And just on case, start looking on AirBnB fir a three month place to tide you over the Christmas period till you have time again.

HairMare

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ask them. It's not illegal to ask, can't hurt and might help.

Don't ask for a month by month basis, legally such a thing doesn't exist.

But you can mutually agree to a longer-than-required notice period.

And just on case, start looking on AirBnB fir a three month place to tide you over the Christmas period till you have time again.

yeah im going to ask - can't hurt - i asked the pmc and was told no but will try receiver / bank

ross2010

You can ask but they won't grant it. They want you out so they can achieve the market sale price. With a sitting tenant its 25% below market value. The other tenants are left there as their leases aren't up and so notice to vacate for sale cannot be given yet, hence the reduced sale price. Receivers are obliged to get the best price possible as the bank will insist on that. They will also happily leave the property empty for a year whilst marketing it for sale rather than have a tenant in as otherwise too risky so I very much doubt you will get an extension.

Even if you offered to have the house looking fab for viewings etc and give them your assurance you will be gone long before sale closes they won't accept it. They cant. It leaves them open and exposed. So you are best off finding somewhere else to rent or airbnb and buy if you are in a position to do so. The dog may need to go to a friend or family member in meantime as even in a non RPZ most landlords wouldn't be in favour of a dog as heartbreaking as that is. Are you in a position to buy? If so I would do it, more and more landlords are getting out so will be harder and harder to rent esp with a dog.

Cash_Q

HairMare have they issued a sworn Statutory Declaration that the house is being sold? Apologies if you've stated this already, but you're entitled to this and can challenge the notice if this didn't accompany your written notice. Your notice period would start again from the date you receive the Statutory Declaration. This happened when we bought a house with tenants in place and they were totally within their rights to do so.

Zero Point

Is the property management company aware that you have a dog in the house? If they are and gave you permission it sounds like they were already being quite reasonable. Dogs do leave traces of odours around a house which are not always detectable or noticeable to the owners when they're living there but can be to visitors.

If I had a property that I was intending to sell, I would be removing the pet weeks in advance and give to someone to care for them in the interim in order to air out the house to remove any traces of pets to get it ready for the sale and not to put off any potential buyer. I'm sure a property management company would equally feel the same way.

the_syco

HairMare wrote: »

All I would be looking for is to remain on a month by month basis after the notice period expires.

You got 20 weeks notice, and you're not moving.

Why should they believe you that you'd move if they gave you a months notice when they got a buyer? You're digging your heels in now, so the LL would fear you'd play silly games if he got a buyer.

DubCount wrote: »

Finally, contact Threshold to ensure your eviction notice is fully valid etc.. They may find a loophole to buy you some time.

They'll probably advise the OP to illegally overhold. Which is great if you're on the social, but if you work, the LL will be able to claim off you if he brings you to court over overholding. No reference, and a case against you will mean you've shot yourself in both feet regarding getting a new place.

HairMare wrote: »

i understand the bank wants a return but the other houses in the portfolio are being advertised for sale at 25% less than market value for the estate that their in.

Probably 25% less than market value as the tenants there are refusing to leave.

In the end OP the issue with finding rented accommodation with a pet is not going to go away in a month or two even if the LL does let you stay. You’re best bet is to find someone to mind the dog for a few weeks, get a new place & ask the landlord to allow you to move your dog into the new apt. You might get lucky if you show yourself to be a respectable tenant and they could allow it.

ted1

HairMare wrote: »

I understand that, but our house isn't on the market yet. and has no signs on going on the market.

The other two houses have gone on the open market with sitting tenants...

Who have almost 6 months left on their tenancies / notice.

All I would be looking for is to remain on a month by month basis after the notice period expires.

its not your house, its your home, that's the pitfall against renting.

HairMare

We got notification last Friday that our rent is going up by 90% in the new year ... not sure what the long term plan is...

Bluefoam

HairMare wrote: »

We got notification last Friday that our rent is going up by 90% in the new year ... not sure what the long term plan is...

so you're not leaving?

deiseindublin

Is this a new place?

cruizer101

90% is a big increase, had it been that much under the market rate, is it now comparable to other properties?

HairMare

no same place, it looks like we wont be leaving which is great - 90% seems mad but worth it not to move this side of xmas etc

HairMare

cruizer101 wrote: »

90% is a big increase, had it been that much under the market rate, is it now comparable to other properties?

a 30% increase would have brought us to around market - they have sent me a list of comparison prices which are all for stand alone houses either standing on an acre in a gated type development - some are up to an hour away.

if they took 5 houses avail immed in the same town they would be max 30% more than what we are paying, and those would be furnished etc

but look the main thing is were not moving

Reati

HairMare wrote: »

a 30% increase would have brought us to around market - they have sent me a list of comparison prices which are all for stand alone houses either standing on an acre in a gated type development - some are up to an hour away.

if they took 5 houses avail immed in the same town they would be max 30% more than what we are paying, and those would be furnished etc

but look the main thing is were not moving

Well to be blunt, you're not moving now but you will be. I would have been out ASAP. Hanging in there with uncertainty about where you'll live in a few weeks, paying 90% more etc sounds waaaay more stressful.

Reati

HairMare wrote: »

a 30% increase would have brought us to around market - they have sent me a list of comparison prices which are all for stand alone houses either standing on an acre in a gated type development - some are up to an hour away.

if they took 5 houses avail immed in the same town they would be max 30% more than what we are paying, and those would be furnished etc

but look the main thing is were not moving

Well to be blunt, you're not moving now but you will be. I would have been out ASAP. Hanging in there with uncertainty about where you'll live in a few weeks, paying 90% more etc sounds waaaay more stressful.

djan

So did the LL extend your tennancy or did you come to some solution?

While I understand it on a personal level, it is not your house but someone else's property, once no contracts are being broken they should be free to do as the please with it. Hopefully it works out for you, at least for christmas!

cruizer101

You can appeal a rent increase to the RTB if it is excessively over the market rate.
Others can probably advise better but look yourself for comparable properties, go back to landlord with those and try negotiate better rent.
If that doesn't work you can go to rtb.

tretorn

Please just find somewhere else and leave.
My family has a property rented to pay nursing home fees and the worry that the tenant wont leave when the house is required for a family member is unreal.
We let them have the house even though they have a big dog, we were told dog was elderly and wouldnt have the run of the house. I drove by the property the other day and the dog was on the fairly good sofa in the living room looking out at me.

HairMare

Reati wrote: »

Well to be blunt, you're not moving now but you will be. I would have been out ASAP. Hanging in there with uncertainty about where you'll live in a few weeks, paying 90% more etc sounds waaaay more stressful.

Totally, but the initial pressure that takes off me which is a big help

dennyk

HairMare wrote: »

a 30% increase would have brought us to around market - they have sent me a list of comparison prices which are all for stand alone houses either standing on an acre in a gated type development - some are up to an hour away.

if they took 5 houses avail immed in the same town they would be max 30% more than what we are paying, and those would be furnished etc

You can challenge the new rent if you believe it is above market value and the comparables provided are significantly different than your property. Note that exact location is not always a significant factor provided the type of location is similar (urban vs. town vs. rural), so just because a property is an hour away doesn't mean it's not a valid comparison (unless it's in Dublin 2 and you're somewhere in the middle of nowhere in the Midlands, for instance). If the comparable properties are significantly larger than yours or are a different type of accommodation (e.g. detatched homes compared to your flat/apartment) or they have other amenities yours does not that would substantially affect the market price, that would be cause to challenge their validity.

HairMare

we got another letter in todays post to state that our original notice still stands... i cant understand whats going on at this stage

cordy1969

Dont see whats so hard for you to comprehend......

The landlord wants you to move out, gave you plenty of notice and yet here you are still digging your heels in and looking for ways of staying.

This is whats wrong with the housing market. Why would you ever want to be a LL.

I've been reading this thread this morning, and I'm quite confused.

You've rented the same place for 5.5 years.
You were advised in JULY that you would need to move out at the end of November (20 weeks notice)
You're not interested in moving out
You dont have the time to find a new place
You have a dog
Other people, who have no impact on your renting situation, have got a different deal from you

I think that covers the scenario.

I dont see what the issue is. It's not your house. You rent it. You have been given ample notice.
From the sounds of it, the landlord has done everything correctly, and you're the one who is causing the hardship

I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no sympathy for you whatsoever. What gives you the right to dictate terms to the owner of the property that you rent?
You say that it's a busy time of year for you, so you can't look for another place
You've had 4 months to look.
Honestly, based on what I've read, and in my opinion, your attitude stinks, and if I was the landlord, I'd be less likely to try to accommodate you.

tretorn

Also if someone rents for seven years dont they get greater rights in relation to the tenancy.

You have been notified the owner wants vacant possession, you need to leave and its important this landlord gives you a good reference.

We let our house to the tenant with the dog because his last landlord sold the house and he moved without complaint and got a good reference.

We had scores of people to choose from but we were happy enough this tenant will vacate when we want the house back, that doesnt stop us worrying all the time about him digging his heels in and saying he has nowhere to go. That isnt our problem though and I dont want it to become another problem for us.

Dave0301

HairMare wrote: »

we got another letter in todays post to state that our original notice still stands... i cant understand whats going on at this stage

What I can't understand is why you still haven't moved out of the landlord's house.

The way you have handled this siuation does not present you in a good light at all.

I feel sorry for your landlord.

What’s going on is that they gave you a PFO ‘offer’ which was never intended to result in you accepting it. Instead of this bleeting, get the other part of the ‘we’ you’ve referred to on the case to find a place to move into. Be prepared to offload your dog on family or friends if it comes to it as it’s pure stupidity to find yourself homeless just because of your stubborn sense of entitlement. Be warned, no landlord or local authority are under any obligations to house your pet.

It’s time to get real.

Harsh but true.